ultrAslan

As @crusadertsar mentioned, increasing mentality raises the risk level for the entire team. For instance, my wing-back might surge forward too quickly after regaining possession. Taking on more risk can leave my team exposed, especially against superior teams, creating unwanted gaps. It really boils down to trial and error. There's no one-size-fits-all strategy for perfecting the counter.Feel free to experiment. If your squad has the ability to handle more risk and can play on it, then adjust the mentality. The cautious approach has served my team well in my save, and I've shared my strategy in the hopes that it might provide a solid starting point for you to adapt and fine-tune to fit your own team's needs.

In my own league, I play differently because there isn't a real challenge for me. I manage the top club in Turkey and we have the best team. The AI managers in Turkey don't seem to strengthen their squads effectively, so it's relatively easy to dominate the league every year. The real competition comes from the Champions League. After winning the Champions League two or three times, there's not much of a challenge left, as that was the only trophy missing in Turkey. The tactic I use in Turkey is fundamentally similar to my counter-attacking strategy, but it's more focused on possession-based play and pressing the opponent in their half. You might have noticed that I use the same roles from my counter-attacking tactic to hold the tactical familiarity. If I were to change roles and duties for my counter-attacking tactic, I wouldn’t be able to play the tactic's full potential. I prefer my players to consistently play in the same roles across different tactical systems to ensure they are comfortable and familiar with their responsibilities. This is what I mean by no challenge left in my country: Thank you for the kind words! Learned a lot from your topic on these types of systems. It opened up a new enjoyment in FM for me, moving away from the high-press meta in previous years.

Coming back with an update on my quest to master soaking up pressure and hitting teams on the counter in Football Manager! After posting my original question during my FM 23 days, I've since moved on to experimenting with counter-attacking tactics in FM 24. I'm excited to share the tactic that I've fine-tuned, which has served me incredibly well against top-tier teams in the Champions League, helping me secure back-to-back Champions League trophies. The screenshot attached shows the setup that has brought my team great success. By setting up with a cautious mentality and focusing on a quick transition play, my team has been able to capitalize on the counter-attacks effectively. Here's the screenshot of the tactic that made it all possible: In depth about the player roles and duties: Advanced Forward (AF): This player is the tip of our spear, constantly probing the defensive line and ready to exploit any space behind the opposition's backline. PI: Close Down More Winger (W - Attack) and Inverted Winger (IW - Support): Flank players with contrasting roles; the Winger provides width and direct runs, aiming to stretch the play and deliver crosses, while the Inverted Winger cuts inside to overload central areas and link-up play. The player I use as a Winger is right-footed, effectively a hidden inside forward, combining flank runs with cutting inside. For the Inverted Winger, it's crucial to have a left-footed player with a playmaker style, capable of spraying passes to the advanced forward, mezzala or the winger in space. He is the hidden playmaker in your team as the DM is marked by the opponent. I had the privilege of playing Arda Guler in this role. PI: Close Down More for both flanks Mezzala (MEZ - Attack): Operating in half-spaces, the Mezzala offers forward thrust from midfield, combining with wide players and the striker, making late runs into the box and supporting the attack dynamically. PI: Close Down More, Shoot More Often, Dribble More, Tackle Harder (the last three PIs were extra, tailored to my player's capabilities) Central Midfielder (CM - Support): The engine of the midfield, balancing defensive solidity with support in attack. This role circulates possession and offers a passing outlet, ensuring smooth transitions and also an extra late attacking threat when you counter. PI: Close Down More, Get Further Forward, Dribble More, Shoot Less Often(Dribble More & Shoot Less Often was based on the attributes of my player) Deep-Lying Playmaker (DLP - Support): Positioned deeper in the midfield, the DLP dictates the tempo from a withdrawn position, providing defensive cover as well as initiating attacks with their range of passing. PI: More Direct Passes, Close Down More, Tackle Harder Wing-Back (WB - Support): The attacking threat on the right side as he runs behind the Inverted Winger. He is the lungs of my wings with a pace of 17. With the TI: overlap right, his individual mentality becomes balanced, taking more risks than usual. PIs: Pass It Shorter, Take Fewer Risks, Cross More Often, Stay Wider, Close Down More, Tackle Harder Inverted Full Back (IFB - Defensive): A new role in FM24, the Inverted Full Back provides excellent cover. When the team counters and the Wing-Back moves forward, the IFB tucks into the middle to provide defensive coverage alongside the central defenders, ensuring solidity if the ball is lost during a counter. PIs: None Centre Backs (CD - Defensive) and Ball-Playing Defender (BPD - Defensive): The traditional Centre Backs focus on defensive duties, while the BPD is given more freedom to step out with the ball and play adventurous passes to start counter-attacks. PI for BPD: Dribble More, Close Down Less (Dribble more, because his dribbling was 13 and this is a very underrated PI. I saw some goals or assist from this role when the player was literally taking the ball and dribbles his way to the final third and bangs for a goal or passes the ball for an assist. Thanks for the tip @Cloud9). PI for CD: Pass It Shorter, Take Fewer Risks, Close Down Less Sweeper Keeper (SK - Support): An active participant in the team's counter attacking play, with his vision he can start a counter from his hands. PI: None ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In-Game tweaks against higher reputation clubs with superior players: For away games, I set the mentality to Cautious. For home games, I opt for a Balanced mentality. What did you do when you were 1-0 behind? Even if we fall behind 1-0 or 2-0, I switch the mentality to Balanced so that the team is pushing the opposition back and take more risk then the cautious mentality. Did you use Opposition Instructions? I chose not to use Opposition Instructions in any of my matches. In FM24, opponents frequently alter their tactics, roles, and player positions, which can make micromanagement exhaustive and overwhelming. While Opposition Instructions can be beneficial, I didn't utilize them in my save game while I was refining this counter-attacking approach. I got this tip from @crusadertsar Optional: You can change the duty of a Mezzala from attack to support and the Wing Back on the right on Attack. Remove the overlap from the right TI as this do not change the mentality of the Wing Back. And you will also have an agressive Inverted Winger. So your wings wil be the major threat when you counter. Key Attributes In addition to my tactical setup, I want to highlight the key attributes that I prioritize when scouting and selecting players for my team. This strategy is crucial for ensuring each role is filled by the best-suited player, allowing the tactic to function on its best. Underrated PI: Dribble more on a Ball Playing Defender can save your day: Some example videos of where we win the ball from the opponent and counter them: How to win a game with lesser possession then the opponent(A picture tells more than a thousand words): After many years of playing Football Manager, I gathered a wealth of knowledge and experience. Winning against the top teams was always my biggest struggle, and I've learned that such achievements don't happen overnight. Patience and trust in the process are essential. I set a 10-year goal for my Galatasaray save to win the Champions League, and after 5 years, my squad was perfectly assembled with the right kind of players. The provided screenshots and example videos showcase the fruits of many years of dedicated team building – it really does pay off. I would like to extend my special thanks to @Cloud9 and @crusadertsar for their knowledge on the counter attacking systems that enable smaller teams to take on the elite. Also, a heartfelt thanks to @Cleon and @Rashidi for their in-depth content, which has greatly enhanced my understanding of game mechanics.

Yes I agree with @Cloud9 , for a lone striker role I would advice an all-in one package (FAST/STRONG/HEIGHT) like these kind of players(see below) look also at their playing traits, because sometimes you have strikers you want them to play as an AF, but they have the play with his back to the goal trait. Find the cheap Haaland like players.

Sounds like me when I was playing against the big boys! Try to soak up the pressure and hit them on the counter! Let the opponent come to you and let them tire out so you can bang them in the latter stages of the game. For more info read this thread, really helped the way I was playing against some formations and teams:

What kind of opposition instructions are you using against the big fellas when you are the underdog?

Turkish League is easy with a top tier club. Any system or shape works and after a couple of years there is no real opponent and gets boring. The AI is very bad at making transfers and the clubs are very easy to beat. Most challenging part of the Turkish Clubs is to win a cup outside the borders. Thats the reason why I am following this thread to beat the giants in Europe and bring the cup with the long ears at home.

When I ask my assistant for choosing the opposition instruction, he always picks 9 out of 10 times not to press a opponents wing backs. The reason why I ask my assistant in the first place is to give me an idea on where I should tweak. It is a starting spot for me, but every time I press on it , it chooses not to press the opponents wing back and I am thinking why should you not press an opponents wing back?

@crusadertsar What kind of changes do you do when the AI just getting tired in the 70th minute? What kind of team instructions or player role and duty changes do you do to give them a payback? When you play against a better opponent, do you change something when you are getting a lot of pressure from the opponent like changing the defensive line or line of engagement? Or when you spot from the beginning that they have fast players or a fast striker/tall strong forward player?

I was thinking the same until I was playing an inside forward with a mezalla that were attacking the same space. One of my players gave a pass in to space where the mezalla and inside forward was running and the inside forward smashed the mezalla.

Hi All, I've been thinking about player roles that are moving to the same channel or space during a game, like a Mezzala and an Inside Forward or a Winger and a Wing Back etc. etc. And Im reading some many different opinions about how to use them or avoid it when creating a tactic. What are your thoughts or experiences with this? Specifically: How do you make these roles work effectively or do you recommend not to use it? How do these roles affect your team's overall play style? Do they offer more flexibility or create confusion? I want to know how you manage this in your tactics. Thanks!

Thank you for your contribution again on this topic @Cloud9. Great to see that you picked up the counter philosophy on FM24. Im also applying these points against any opponent when I analyze them. Especially when they have slow frontplayers. I move up the D-line. just wondering why you step up from the defensive mentality. How do you like the idea of pass into space with a high d-line? And you are not covering the center or is the DM-s role enough to cover because that he is not roaming so much? Nice trick you did with the wingers with the wrong foot so they play as an winger and inside forwardish role. will try your setup or a mix of that on my save, because the 4-3-3 is my favourite formation.

Yes, but it doesn't give me the same effect as the AF role. I think the AF role in FM is overpowered! Only role that I can trust all the time haha. I tried a DLF on Support and Attack, but got the feeling I was lacking some attacking threat on the opponent. Didn't tried it on a CF role, but can be worth testing. What can I expect when I play him as an CF? He is more involved in everything?

Hi everyone, I’m exploring ways to best utilize Mauro Icardi in my tactic. Icardi, being my favorite player, is someone I definitely want to include in my starting XI. Usually, I prefer the Advanced Forward (AF) role due to its aggressive positioning and attacking nature. However, Icardi’s speed isn't ideal for the AF role. Here’s the challenge: I believe that transforming him into a DLF could benefit the team more, allowing him to link up play and bring others into the game, capitalizing on his intelligence rather than pace. How can I fit a DLF role in this setup or should I need to change some roles and duties? How is my 4-3-3 in general? Any tips?

Did someone already tested counter attacking tactics on the match engine for FM 24?

Amazing writing! Will help me when I start a save on FM24, but feeling really sad why you used fenerbahce instead of Galatasaray haha

What do you mean by role changes to target opposition weak points? When would you change a role and what weakness are you pointing? Regarding the pressing strategy you mentioned earlier, I would appreciate some guidance on how to approach it effectively. For instance, I'm currently using a 4-3-3DM formation with a defensive mentality, and I've set the pressing intensity to standard (slider in the middle) to allow for adjustments via Player Instructions (PIs). To counter the opponent's aggressive wingplay, I've been trying to funnel them inside. Specifically, I implemented (TIs) like 'Trap Inside' and 'Stop Crosses.' In the PI settings, I've instructed my backs to 'mark tighter,' engage in 'hard tackling,' and 'close down' aggressively, but I'm unsure if this is the right approach. Additionally, the opposition comes to the crowded area, where my defensive midfielder (DM) operates. I've also maxed out the pressing instructions for my DM when the ball is played from the center. The front five players are set to 'close down' and 'tackle harder' to apply the first pressure. However, I have some doubts about my backs and DM if I should also be set to 'max closing down in order to disorient their wingplay when they are coming inside. How would you setup the pressing for a 4-3-3DM? Thank you again for claryfing my questions, give you already enough headaches haha. But this topic changed the way I played the game and really enjoying this kinds of setup to soak the pressure and give the opponent a payback in the latter minutes of the game.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you so much for your detailed explanation. I really appreciate the time you took to clarify these aspects of the game for me. It's much clearer now! Another thing that is popping is how would you setup a pressing trap? Do you have any examples or scenario where you use it or how you use it? I was looking at your setup for the 3-4-2-1 and gonna try this in FM24! Passing meter changes w/no playmaker are key + take more risks. This is pivotal for the tactic to work. Get some playmaking traits on talented players as well. No ball magnet + the passing meters creates a very quick/dynamic counter. Passing "Slightly more direct" vs "More direct" based on opponent quality. I prefer "slightly more direct" with the box midfield but I think it's largely stylistic w/the passing meter changes. What do you mean by "Passing meter changes w/no playmaker are key + take more risks".

@Cloud9 Here I am again, haha! I've just reread the entire topic and played FM23 for a while, and I have a lot of questions. Hopefully, you can answer them for me since you've been the one who has helped me throughout this whole discussion on this subject, and I've learned a lot from you. Some of these questions might be similar to those asked earlier: When should you consider to change the Width in your formation? I truly believe that every formation even when you play narrower has some kind of width already in it, so why would you stretch the width? Regarding the choice between a wingback and a fullback, doesn't a full back on support duty naturally get involved in the attack when there's room and safety to exploit the wings? All I can see in this topic mostly is the choice for a wingback rather than a fullback. How do you effectively defend against aggressive wing play against top opponents? Im seeing the wing backs running through the wings like they are on drugs. I've noticed that many tactics here feature a two-striker partnership. Is it that using a lone striker is less effective in a counterattacking strategy? I love the 4-3-3dm and that is a lone striker formation. You mentioned that you are always looking for players that are better in 1v1 situations, on what basis is a player better at 1v1? Are there some attributes you are looking and saying ok this player is now better in 1v1?mental attributes, physical? or specific key attributes in comparison to the opponent? In the context of counterattacking tactic, when do you find it most suitable to adopt a defensive mentality versus a positive mentality, as you've mentioned that these two are well-suited for counterattacking football? When would you use a positive mentality for counter attacking? If you're setting up a central midfield partnership with one player as a Mezzala (A) and the other as a CM (S), what Player Instructions (PIs) would you use for the central midfielder (CM(s)? What are some tweaks that you do in a match and why do you do that? Could you share some tweaks when you are playing with this strategy? Love to know what you do and why you do it. How would you create a fluid counter attacking tactic? how many roles would you want to have when you are creating a tactic to keep the pressure on the opposition in a counter attacking tactic? What would be a minimum for example like attacking roles? how many players should close down more on the opposition? or just keep it standard from the TI? What are your most recent findings regarding this strategy, and how have you been creating a tactic lately? I apologize if my questions seem overwhelming, but these are the ones as I revisited the entire discussion.

I know its been a while when you commented on this, but can you share your tactic for inspiration so I can make one balanced / defensive / suprise tactic?

Haha thanks! Yes was really questioning my defenders, because of their heights. Both of them under the 1.90 . They where also lacking for their speed. Even with a mid block the strikers where running through my defense. Wow! I must admit, I didn’t see how Torreira could work as an 8, but you were absolutely right. I’m considering keeping him in that role and adding a dedicated defensive midfielder. What attributes should I look for in a DM? The Mezzala(S) switch with Moriba worked well! Holding our midfield. I’m typing this from my phone, but I wanted to share that we won against City and played just like you described. I’ll share the screenshots later. I had Torreira as an 8 and Moriba as a Mezzala(S), with Gagliardini as my DM due to his height, physicals, and excellent mental attributes. We were still under a lot of pressure and they get a lot of opportunities, so I’m thinking of replacing my defenders soon.

What are the indications that Im inviting too much pressure and how to counter the threat? Thanks bro, you gave the answer I was looking for! I managed with my Galatasaray save in the 2nd season to reach the final of the Champions League. This is the counter tactic that Im using and as you can see the familiarity is not 100%, becuase in my own league I am a top tier club so I dont need to play a counter attacking formation. In the Champions League I am the underdog, so I need to use this tactic because many teams are attacking me to death: Squad view and attribute list:

Yes me again haha.I'm struggling with my counter-attacking tactic as my defenders are getting beaten too easily. I'd like to know what attributes I should focus on for each position to build a foundation for this style of play. Whether it's selecting the right defenders, midfielders, or forwards, what are the essential attributes to consider for a successful counter-attacking formation, especially when it comes to improving my defense?

I dont get it, as I dont know what kind of formation you use? How would your wingbacks on attack duty help you when you face a 4-4-2? Currently testing trap inside and its working really wel. Im using the OI to press the fullbacks and pass the ball to the middle where my middfielders and DM is waiting to trap the opposition inside. Yes your right, after I read your comment I was looking at my team and the aggression of my middfield duo was low in comparison with the other teams. So other key attributes Im looking now is Agression, Bravery, Stamina and Work Rate. Very well explained! Was always struggling with the narrow - wide setting. The PI take more risk only influence the way the player pass the ball? a. I didnt know that agression can have so many impact on the way you play. Thank you for commenting on this topic @Rashidi. Love your content!