Does FM get harder every time you start a new game?

[angelo994]

Does football manager get harder every time you start a new save?

[XaW]

No

[Smurf]

1 hour ago, Dreambuilder said:

Theres like two offside goal every match.

Almost zero penalties.

Are you LFC?

[FrazT]

5 hours ago, angelo994 said:

Does football manager get harder every time you start a new save?

No- there is nothing in the game code that could produce this kind of outcome- this will be down to your own perception.

[Poison]

3 hours ago, Dreambuilder said:

Yes. Played FM for 5+ years and I've never been this close to throw it out the window.

Theres like two offside goal every match.

Almost zero penalties.

Alot of woodwork hits.

I dont feel going more defensive works after conceding first goal. Then they just score 2-0 and 3-0.

Also my best penalty taker has missed like 4 out of 6 penalties :S

Loosing many games despite leading both possession and shots on goal by far. 

I'm into the third season of my save and I'm still waiting to feel something else than frustration.

Hardest version so far I say for the first time ever.

 

 

Just Gegenpress bro!

[angelo994]

3 hours ago, Dreambuilder said:

Yes. Played FM for 5+ years and I've never been this close to throw it out the window.

Theres like two offside goal every match.

Almost zero penalties.

Alot of woodwork hits.

I dont feel going more defensive works after conceding first goal. Then they just score 2-0 and 3-0.

Also my best penalty taker has missed like 4 out of 6 penalties :S

Loosing many games despite leading both possession and shots on goal by far. 

I'm into the third season of my save and I'm still waiting to feel something else than frustration.

Hardest version so far I say for the first time ever.

 

 

Yeah I’ve been missing a lot of pens too. Def a change since the update.

[Etebaer]

I am not sure what starting a new save means...?

 

Starting a new game from matchday 1 of the opening season does not change difficulty aside of the things that are based on the rng numbers like players that have no rating and get random generated ratings, these players can be very good or very bad ofc.

Reloading a save after a lost match - i dont know i dont do that.

Reloading a save after a crashed match - i allways get worse results than the original ones (bcs sometimes it crashes so late in the game the result is set and done - but i had no crash in FM23 so far this is only true for the last couple of FMs since FM16 for me)!

Edited March 11, 2023 by Etebaer

[gunnerfan]

Not sure if you mean starting a new saved game in the same edition or starting in a new edition. If the same edition, I find it’s easier because I already have a feel for the game. If you mean starting off with a new release, then, yes, there’s usually a learning curve for whatever has changed from the prior year’s game. If you read through the feedback thread, you’ll see plenty of folks had that problem this year.

[rinso]

yes, because every time you start a new game you measure it against the success you had in the last one

[jcafcwbb]

I think this match engine over-reacts to tactical tweaks.

I'll give you an example. As the newly promoted AFC Wimbledon I am expecting a more difficult time. After five matches I had 6 points. I was away at Plymouth who were third and I was fifteenth. They were playing a vertical tiki-taka so I thought I would try making them play outside, I would regroup, and hold shape. Well it backfired and I was 4-0 down after 20 minutes. 

I made changes and turned off making them play outside and added the counter press. By half time it was 4-2 and I had another goal disallowed. By full time it was 4-4 and I almost won the match but a header hit the inside of the post. So just two small tweaks turned an absolute drubbing into an almost win.

The next game I was rubbish in the first half and went in 1-0 down. Changed a neutral press /regroup into the counterpress and was 2-1 up after five minutes of the second half. Conceded from a corner against the run of play but went 3-2 up in the 88th minute. So I thought I will see this out and changed my wing-backs to  defensive full-backs. Cue, four highlights of them attacking where they eventually scored with a ball over the top to the wide striker with my full back out of position in the 93rd minute.

Whilst bad tactics can cost you the win in L1 and L2 the players are not good enough for that kind of swing in performance especially in the Plymouth match. 

[Tfunk]

The only difficulty is away matches, compare them to home matches and its like going from easy mode to hard mode with no inbetween.

[Daniel Evensen]

Nope.  Every save is different.

If you think the game is too hard, go manage Manchester City and score all the goals.

If you think the game is still too hard, go into the pregame editor, give your squad max reputation, take away all debts, give yourself a huge transfer budget, and add on a front-end sugar daddy owner who will never leave the club for good measure.

Conversely, if you think the game is too easy, go manage Ingolstadt 04 and see how you do with a mostly injured squad, no money at all, and expectations for success today.  I lasted 9 matches, lol.

[Brother Ben]

On 15/03/2023 at 19:52, Tfunk said:

The only difficulty is away matches, compare them to home matches and its like going from easy mode to hard mode with no inbetween.

Is this really a thing?  I've just looked back at the history of my save and my record away from home is comparable to my home record.

Genuinely curious if people think this is a thing.

This is last season for me

Season before that

Most of my seasons look like that too one way or another barring a few outliers

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by Brother Ben

[SergeiG]

I wish because the game is way to easy.

[GreenTriangle]

any game can be way too easy. it depends on how it's played

[Ngoc]

So true! the difficulty is made by the payer itself, the game can only do so much (some people save and restart each time they don't like the result, there are people that start with the strongest team, and so on)

but I have to say that, to an extent, the choice a human can make vs. the AI (especially if you handle many factors from training to tactic to morale and so on) does affect the % chance of victory quite a bit (making the human OP if you know what u are doing). A lot of people measure the game over a very limited sample of experiences. This makes it look like one thing and the opposite

I set up a game, went on vacation for the season with the exact team 100 times (still a small sample I know), and I got all types of results from 2 places (my team was average-high in a secondary league) to recession to getting fired halfway (I never got last or first, and averaged most of the time 6-9 position) Then I played myself the full season 3 times (super limited sample but it takes a long time) and got 1st two out of 3 and, the 3rd time, still qualified for promotion, but over playoff.

I feel that if you control many aspects of the game, you can easily outdo the AI by quite a bit, especially in the lower league where the value of the coach and stuff is on the orange/white area.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Ngoc

[Daniel Evensen]

6 hours ago, SergeiG said:

I wish because the game is way to easy.

Go start a new save with FC Ingolstadt 04.  Make your coach have no badges and no experience.  See how you do with a mostly injured squad, no transfer budget, an injured (and injury-prone) centerback who takes up something like 1/5 of your wage bill and who just signed a contract 4 months ago, and expectations to win now.

I lasted about 2 1/2 months, lol.

[Brother Ben]

6 hours ago, SergeiG said:

I wish because the game is way to easy.

To be honest its not my kind of thing but in terms of difficulty the Youth Academy Challenge looks near impossible to complete

[SergeiG]

On 18/03/2023 at 23:55, Daniel Evensen said:

Go start a new save with FC Ingolstadt 04.  Make your coach have no badges and no experience.  See how you do with a mostly injured squad, no transfer budget, an injured (and injury-prone) centerback who takes up something like 1/5 of your wage bill and who just signed a contract 4 months ago, and expectations to win now.

I lasted about 2 1/2 months, lol.

 

On 19/03/2023 at 00:15, Brother Ben said:

To be honest its not my kind of thing but in terms of difficulty the Youth Academy Challenge looks near impossible to complete

OK, what is this have to do with what I said?

[Brother Ben]

14 minutes ago, SergeiG said:

 

OK, what is this have to do with what I said?

You said it was too easy.  Myself and Daniel have offered ways to make it more challenging

[Daniel Evensen]

26 minutes ago, SergeiG said:

 

OK, what is this have to do with what I said?

Like @Brother Ben said, we're telling you how to make the game harder.

And, yes, the Youth Academy Challenge looks incredibly difficult.  There's a reason why those who attempt it wind up having to "reroll" so many times.

[phd_angel]

Yes, FM gets harder because every new save your expectations are higher and you take more risks and get frustrated more easily. So, FM definitely gets more difficult.

[H_a_a_k_o_n]

On 18/03/2023 at 16:36, SergeiG said:

I wish because the game is way to easy.

Only curious. Do you play the game isolated or do you seek information from various places? (downloading tactics, finding good players to buy etc).

I find the game easy in the long run (20 years perspective), but when i play isolated i find the game quite challenging. For example, everyone "knows" that gegenpress is OP so i do not use that tactic. I try to make my "own" tactic, by trial and error.

If you play isolated then i am impressed you find it easy. If you are not i recommend that for better challenge.

[SergeiG]

15 hours ago, Daniel Evensen said:

Like @Brother Ben said, we're telling you how to make the game harder.

And, yes, the Youth Academy Challenge looks incredibly difficult.  There's a reason why those who attempt it wind up having to "reroll" so many times.

 

15 hours ago, Brother Ben said:

You said it was too easy.  Myself and Daniel have offered ways to make it more challenging

No, it's not making the game harder. Especially the youth challenge, it's just crippling yourself because the game is too easy.

 

2 hours ago, H_a_a_k_o_n said:

Only curious. Do you play the game isolated or do you seek information from various places? (downloading tactics, finding good players to buy etc).

I find the game easy in the long run (20 years perspective), but when i play isolated i find the game quite challenging. For example, everyone "knows" that gegenpress is OP so i do not use that tactic. I try to make my "own" tactic, by trial and error.

If you play isolated then i am impressed you find it easy. If you are not i recommend that for better challenge.

Well, I have been playing the game since CM03/04, never skipped a version since.

 

 

I just want to play the game with the team I support or some league I like(Belgian league for example) and not achieve everything in the game in 2-5 seasons.

[Daniel Evensen]

Have you tried using Daveincid's Increase Realism Megapack?

It's not perfect, but it will correct some egregious AI behavior, such as its inability to give young players proper game time.

There are other editor data files out there that improve AI managerial behavior.  My favorite is the one that DarthFurion comes out with as part of his World Super League each year, though we're still waiting on the FM23 version.

Seriously, if you're getting bored with the game, give that World Super League a try.  It'll take you a long time to try to win that crazy worldwide Premier League.

But, yeah, if you keep doing the same challenge with the same team or league every year, FM is going to start feeling boring.

[herne79]

On 18/03/2023 at 15:36, SergeiG said:

I wish because the game is way to easy.

2 hours ago, SergeiG said:

the game is too easy

2 hours ago, SergeiG said:

I just want to play the game with the team I support or some league I like(Belgian league for example) and not achieve everything in the game in 2-5 seasons

Rather than simply saying the game is too easy, what would be far more useful is saying in what way is it easy.  That way not only people who find the game hard (of which there are many) may be able to get some hints and tips but the devs may be able understand better where to make adjustments.

So when you say it’s too easy, how do you play the game?  Do you (for example) create your own realistic tactics; use a preset tactic (which one); simply download the latest and greatest tactic; or something else (what) in between?  Thus if the community (and devs) know you are using, lets say, the gegenpress default it might help others think they could give it a try and/or the devs to make adjustments.

What else do you do to make it easy?  How do you use the transfer market?  How do you set up training?  How do you play each match?  How do you manage team morale or your players?  Do you attend press conferences?  The list goes on.

I know this is getting off topic now so how about you start a new thread, or post in the feedback thread, about exactly what it is you do in game that makes it so easy for you 👍.

[SergeiG]

6 hours ago, herne79 said:

Rather than simply saying the game is too easy, what would be far more useful is saying in what way is it easy.  That way not only people who find the game hard (of which there are many) may be able to get some hints and tips but the devs may be able understand better where to make adjustments.

So when you say it’s too easy, how do you play the game?  Do you (for example) create your own realistic tactics; use a preset tactic (which one); simply download the latest and greatest tactic; or something else (what) in between?  Thus if the community (and devs) know you are using, lets say, the gegenpress default it might help others think they could give it a try and/or the devs to make adjustments.

What else do you do to make it easy?  How do you use the transfer market?  How do you set up training?  How do you play each match?  How do you manage team morale or your players?  Do you attend press conferences?  The list goes on.

I know this is getting off topic now so how about you start a new thread, or post in the feedback thread, about exactly what it is you do in game that makes it so easy for you 👍.

I actually did, last year and this year. This year's thread was closed because I compared personal challenges(like the youth challenge) to bringing your own salt to a restaurant and the mods used it as an excuse to say it went off-topic about food and such.

(check my post history if you are curious, lots of people had lots of interesting things to say)

I just stopped wasting my time about explaining stuff after that,

[Daniel Evensen]

55 minutes ago, SergeiG said:

I actually did, last year and this year. This year's thread was closed because I compared personal challenges(like the youth challenge) to bringing your own salt to a restaurant and the mods used it as an excuse to say it went off-topic about food and such.

(check my post history if you are curious, lots of people had lots of interesting things to say)

I just stopped wasting my time about explaining stuff after that,

I mean, it is an off-topic comparison that isn't really valid.  There's nothing holding you back from challenging yourself in this game.  I'm puzzled by your intransigence.

Seriously, if you have a history of starting threads on this very topic, and people keep giving you ideas that you could pursue to make the game more interesting and challenging, why do you persist in throwing them back in our faces?  People are legitimately trying to help you, but you are insisting that something that the rest of us don't even consider a problem be solved.

It feels a lot like trolling.

[herne79]

1 hour ago, SergeiG said:

I actually did, last year and this year. This year's thread was closed because I compared personal challenges(like the youth challenge) to bringing your own salt to a restaurant and the mods used it as an excuse to say it went off-topic about food and such.

(check my post history if you are curious, lots of people had lots of interesting things to say)

I just stopped wasting my time about explaining stuff after that,

Ahh yes I remember now, we’ve had this conversation before.  You use a gegenpress tactic because apparently “tactics don’t matter” and you use lots of other strategies to make the game easier and unrealistic.

That’s not the game being easy.  That’s you making the game easy.  Big difference.  So, as you find the game is too easy, try developing your own tactical system instead of something you consider to be overpowered and/or start playing the game in a realistic manner - rather than using other exploits to give yourself an unfair advantage.

[Daniel Evensen]

I mean, I don't completely disagree with some of the things he does.  I pay a lot of attention to player personalities, and brought in a few older players just because they had Perfectionist and Professional personalities for the sole purpose of helping the squad's overall personality out.  I don't disagree with the transfer tricks either; heck, I'm currently in the process of poaching the youth intake of every other team in the country to make up for my batch of inconsistent and unambitious newgens.

But, yeah, you can't complain that the game is too easy if you make sure to use every exploit under the sun every single time you play.

If you really want a challenge, start from the very bottom in a country in the middle of nowhere, force yourself to come up with your own tactic, set things up so that you can't see player personalities, ignore the coach reports, turn off star ratings and attributes (what I call hardcore mode), and go from there.  The game will be a lot harder — and you don't even need extra editor data files to do so.

It's not polite to come onto the official forums and complain that the game is too easy when you use exploits to win everything, though.  The problem's not the game.

[SergeiG]

12 hours ago, herne79 said:

Ahh yes I remember now, we’ve had this conversation before.  You use a gegenpress tactic because apparently “tactics don’t matter” and you use lots of other strategies to make the game easier and unrealistic.

That’s not the game being easy.  That’s you making the game easy.  Big difference.  So, as you find the game is too easy, try developing your own tactical system instead of something you consider to be overpowered and/or start playing the game in a realistic manner - rather than using other exploits to give yourself an unfair advantage.

How is mixing your squad with older professional players or using gegenpress is "a hack" or unrealistic? It's way more unrealistic to field a squad of 18-21 year olds and win the Champions League. Thats by the way is another easy aspect of the game, mentality dont matter at all. In real life if you stock your team with 20-year-olds your squad will crumble under the pressure.

[herne79]

17 minutes ago, SergeiG said:

How is mixing your squad with older professional players or using gegenpress is "a hack" or unrealistic? It's way more unrealistic to field a squad of 18-21 year olds and win the Champions League. Thats by the way is another easy aspect of the game, mentality dont matter at all. In real life if you stock your team with 20-year-olds your squad will crumble under the pressure.

I didn’t say using gegenpress is unrealistic.  Using gegenpress is easy mode.  You then layer on top other exploitative strategies to make the game even easier for yourself.  And mixing your squad with older pros just to use them as Mentors is the unrealistic (and exploitative) part.

It really doesn’t matter to me how you play the game.  If you have fun doing it, great 😀.  The issue is that you use easy mode tactics along with exploitative strategies and then tell us all that the game is too easy.  You find it too easy because of how you play not because of how the game is coded.

But if you do ever want more of a challenge, start a new save, don’t use any exploits, play realistically and create your own non-heavy pressing tactic with say a low or mid block.  You’ll soon see that Mentality (and tactics in general) really do matter 👍.

[SergeiG]

13 minutes ago, herne79 said:

I didn’t say using gegenpress is unrealistic.  Using gegenpress is easy mode.  You then layer on top other exploitative strategies to make the game even easier for yourself.  And mixing your squad with older pros just to use them as Mentors is the unrealistic (and exploitative) part.

It really doesn’t matter to me how you play the game.  If you have fun doing it, great 😀.  The issue is that you use easy mode tactics along with exploitative strategies and then tell us all that the game is too easy.  You find it too easy because of how you play not because of how the game is coded.

But if you do ever want more of a challenge, start a new save, don’t use any exploits, play realistically and create your own non-heavy pressing tactic with say a low or mid block.  You’ll soon see that Mentality (and tactics in general) really do matter 👍.

Well thats my point, how long gegenpress is OP in the game? 2-3 years and SI won't fix it. But the player base of the game just prefer to sweep it under the rug and suggest to everybody to avoid it instead of holding the devs responsible and demand it fixed and balanced. That not some crappy niche tactic no one ever heard of, it's a very common tactic in modern football. Pressing in modern football is a must and you tell me I can use it because SI is incompetent?

Anyway, I am not using it in the new game I started after the latest patch and It's still as easy as before.

 

Regarding the old professionals, most of them are first team regulars until they are physically unable to be anymore. I am in my 4th season now and Eriksen(33), Fernandes(31) and De Gea(35) are my first team regulars. I dont think its a "hack" or an "exploit" or "easy mode", it's a realistic practice that most players actually dont do and prefer to use 18-26 year olds and then sell them before their value drop or their wages get too high so it's not a problem to offload them. Now thats an exploit.

[herne79]

1 minute ago, SergeiG said:

Well thats my point, how long gegenpress is OP in the game? 2-3 years and SI won't fix it

Gegenpress is not and never has been any more “OP” than any other well designed tactic.  It’s just easier to set up and more forgiving.  That does of course lead to other questions such as should we be able to use an effective gegenpress in lower leagues for example.

But then all some people want to do is load up their game and have some fun without it feeling (to them) like a chore, so from that perspective FM should be applauded for being so flexible in allowing us to play the game however we want.

So of course the game is easy when we use certain strategies or exploits - and it also becomes easier as we become better and more experienced at the game - but that’s not the same thing as the game being easy.  Spend a few minutes hanging around the Tactics forum and you’ll quickly see there are many many people who don’t find it easy.

[Costav]

Hello,

I am pretty new on the forum, even though I played every version of FM since the time it was still Championship Manager/Scudetto (in Italian).

I did not follow the entire topic, but I could not disagree more with the argument that you have to set your own limits while playing the game. For me, as long as you are not cheating (controlling more than one team to accept very low offers or using save scum to mention two "tricks") you can play the game as you wish and say that you find the game easy. Indeed, I have the feeling that the last FMs are more focused on the "widely cool kinds of stuff" of being a manager (like the last day of market transfers windows, or the new recruitment system, which I am not saying that it is something to drop or that it's unrealistic) than on things that have a strong impact on a match (knowledge of the tactics, fitness for the role). I understand that is to sell more and to earn more (I don't blame them for this), but sometimes I have the feeling that the field-managerial side of the game has been a bit forgotten during the last 5/10 editions. If you set up correctly some "key" aspects of your experience (have a good staff, have the wage budget under the limit, focus on keeping the morale very high) then all of a sudden you are able to overperform (not winning everything, but have always very good and better results during your career) with any kind of team.

That's why I would say that the game began to seem easier.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Costav
mispelling a word

[priority76]

31 minutes ago, SergeiG said:

Now thats an exploit.

It really isn't.

[SergeiG]

22 minutes ago, priority76 said:

It really isn't.

It is in my opinion, the game can't account for your team's lack of experience so you dont actually dont need any senior players. Thats an exploit.

[Ngoc]

I guess some people never had to play board games or other stuff. In a game where there is no control or AI that forces you into something then, you have to be honest and play the right way to make the game challenging.

Yeah, you can play D&D and give your character the best stats; nobody honestly going to stop you or fake the dice with all numbers 20 on the faces. Or snoop the possible various option before choosing which one to pick.

Some people are spoiled by the fact they never had to actually try to play fair to have fun. To want to use all possible tactics to make it easier and than be able to go on the forum and brag is too easy... to each his own.

 

[priority76]

44 minutes ago, SergeiG said:

the game can't account for your team's lack of experience

Are you sure about this? Would it make you happier if it was impossible to win games with a young squad?

[SergeiG]

11 minutes ago, priority76 said:

Are you sure about this? Would it make you happier if it was impossible to win games with a young squad?

Thats not what I said. I said the game does not account for it at all so it's easy to exploit.

[priority76]

25 minutes ago, SergeiG said:

Thats not what I said. I said the game does not account for it at all so it's easy to exploit.

How do you know it doesn't account for it at all?

[SergeiG]

19 hours ago, priority76 said:

How do you know it doesn't account for it at all?

From my 20 years of experience with the game and I have done it countless times, Ajax most recently, where I developed a team full of 18-22 year olds and won the treble 2 years straight.