Target Man help

[OrientTillIDie]

I was wondering if anyone else has the same problem as me... Over the last few FMs, when you set a striker as a target man your players pretty much automatically just hoof the ball forward to him and I can't find a way to stop it happening. I play with shorter passing and retain possession yet when my defenders or deep midfielders get the ball, 9 times out of 10 they hit a high long ball up to my striker.

When using a player such as Crouch or Giroud for example, this is fine because they've got that elite jumping ability. However some target men aren't tall, but big and strong. I gave up trying to play Akinfenwa for Wimbledon because he can barely jump off the ground and no other roles really suit him. I want the ball played into his feet so he can hold it up and lay it off but time after time my players would search him out with long balls which he would never win.

I long for the days of the little bar at the bottom of the tactics screen where you could select your target man from the list of players and also choose how he was supplied.

[Miravlix]

The targetman role make your team stupid, no way around it.

If your team can play better than that, don't use the targetman role.

You can still take advantage of TM striker, even without using the role. Look at the PI's enabled when the role is selected, then pick a more general role and use the same PI's.

[swansongs]

You can't make a player use the same movement instructions as a Target Man, without the Target Man long ball effect. There's always some unwanted instruction like "Moves into channels" attached.

Makes getting the best out of players like Bony and Giroud very difficult. It's such a bizarre oversight. The powerful, relatively static lone centre-forward is a common figure even in teams that don't employ long ball approaches.

[johnhughthom]

Makes getting the best out of players like Bony and Giroud very difficult.

Oh?

Don't stress too much about the striker's role and make sure your full backs are overlapping, and you get plenty of crosses in and... well that's it. Do that and you're flying.

[HUNT3R]

I was wondering if anyone else has the same problem as me... Over the last few FMs, when you set a striker as a target man your players pretty much automatically just hoof the ball forward to him and I can't find a way to stop it happening. I play with shorter passing and retain possession yet when my defenders or deep midfielders get the ball, 9 times out of 10 they hit a high long ball up to my striker.

When using a player such as Crouch or Giroud for example, this is fine because they've got that elite jumping ability. However some target men aren't tall, but big and strong. I gave up trying to play Akinfenwa for Wimbledon because he can barely jump off the ground and no other roles really suit him. I want the ball played into his feet so he can hold it up and lay it off but time after time my players would search him out with long balls which he would never win.

I long for the days of the little bar at the bottom of the tactics screen where you could select your target man from the list of players and also choose how he was supplied.

A shorter passing style will do this.

Then again, what's wrong with a DLF/S?

[wpmk]

I was wondering if anyone else has the same problem as me... Over the last few FMs, when you set a striker as a target man your players pretty much automatically just hoof the ball forward to him and I can't find a way to stop it happening. I play with shorter passing and retain possession yet when my defenders or deep midfielders get the ball, 9 times out of 10 they hit a high long ball up to my striker.

When using a player such as Crouch or Giroud for example, this is fine because they've got that elite jumping ability. However some target men aren't tall, but big and strong. I gave up trying to play Akinfenwa for Wimbledon because he can barely jump off the ground and no other roles really suit him. I want the ball played into his feet so he can hold it up and lay it off but time after time my players would search him out with long balls which he would never win.

I long for the days of the little bar at the bottom of the tactics screen where you could select your target man from the list of players and also choose how he was supplied.

If you're playing possession football, try the Deep Lying Forward role on Support instead. This will get your big guy looking to bring other players into the game instead.

Just beware that the DLF will play risky passes as part of his role so you may want to tweak it.

[swansongs]

Oh?

Don't stress too much about the striker's role and make sure your full backs are overlapping, and you get plenty of crosses in and... well that's it. Do that and you're flying.

Okay, Giroud is a bad example. Maybe Arsenal would get better results banging in crosses constantly instead of passing it about.

But Bony is barely 6' tall, playing long to him never worked.

[swansongs]

Deep-Lying Support drops off and gets involved in play. Sometimes you just want a big lump who sticks to the last defender, takes the ball to feet and lays off simple passes to midfield runners. No drifting, no funny stuff, the occasional tap-in.

[HUNT3R]

Deep-Lying Support drops off and gets involved in play. Sometimes you just want a big lump who sticks to the last defender, takes the ball to feet and lays off simple passes to midfield runners. No drifting, no funny stuff, the occasional tap-in.

So you don't want a striker that drops deep? How will he collect the ball then and lay it off to midfield runners?

[OrientTillIDie]

I'll give the DLF/S a go. I guess I'll have to add a few player instructions to stop him trying to be too creative and risky with his passes. My worry is that if I give Akinfenwa too many instructions he'll get confused. Never struck me as the sharpest tool in the box.

[wpmk]

Deep-Lying Support drops off and gets involved in play. Sometimes you just want a big lump who sticks to the last defender, takes the ball to feet and lays off simple passes to midfield runners. No drifting, no funny stuff, the occasional tap-in.

If you want to lump it long then you're NOT playing a possession based style that OP describers. A Deep-Lying Forward on Support will help with possession but, of course, you can experiment with him on Attack duty if you want him further up the pitch.

[ckaracay]

if the only workaround of stopping defenders hoofing to ball to the targetman is to set him to dlp why bother keeping that role in the game still? it has been many years now defenders keep hoofing the ball to tms in fm series.

[QWERTYOP]

Agree with this. I don't like playing with target men in FM for this reason. Target man shouldn't automatically mean look to smack it up to him from wherever you are at the earliest available opportunity. I'm sad that that hasn't apparently been sorted yet.

[OrientTillIDie]

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Sometimes a big (but short) target man who can be the key to a good short passing game because he adds that extra dimension to your game. Chances are that most players in a possession based team are small technical players so that big man who can hold up the ball on the floor and wait to bring others in is useful.

Similarly, I used to use Walcott as a target man with run onto ball as his supply and he was lethal. In a counter attacking team, using a quick target man to run the channels is pivotal. Admittedly you can sort of get around this one by putting more direct, pass into space and then put move into channels on your striker but it doesn't quite provide the same result. I think it would be great if SI could bring back the target man supply feature.

[PeeDub]

I alternate between my big man being a target man and a DLF depending on where I'm seeing pressure. If I'm penned in, I tend to use him as a target man. Works well to get the ball up the pitch.

[ckaracay]

i got no problems with defenders hoofing the ball to TM if that is what "i" instructed to them ie: pump ball to box; but game mechanics constraints me from building up play with TM, and i can not choose the DLF as my wingers/full backs cross aim target.

[QWERTYOP]

I think it would be great if SI could bring back the target man supply feature.

This times a BILLION! Inexplicably removed. Made life with a target man in your tactic much easier to fit in.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

OK this might explain why I'm not controlling possession as much as I should be.

What's the best forward role to use for keeping possession?

[QWERTYOP]

If I have to play a target man type player in my XI, I'll usually play him as a defensive forward.

[ckaracay]

still a workaround, it is stupid that you can not choose if u want your defenders to hoof to ball to TM.

[swansongs]

If you want to lump it long then you're NOT playing a possession based style that OP describers. A Deep-Lying Forward on Support will help with possession but, of course, you can experiment with him on Attack duty if you want him further up the pitch.

The player is a lump, not the pass to him.

So you don't want a striker that drops deep? How will he collect the ball then and lay it off to midfield runners?

By backing into his centreback and holding him off. I want my centreforward to stick to the last defender and receive the ball to feet.

If you need a visual aid just watch Swansea highlights from the first half of last season when Bony and Gylfi played together.

[HUNT3R]

By backing into his centreback and holding him off. I want my centreforward to stick to the last defender and receive the ball to feet.

If you need a visual aid just watch Swansea highlights from the first half of last season when Bony and Gylfi played together.

Problem is, Bony drops deep quite a bit to collect the ball, so when he's holding off these centrebacks, it's because they're pushing up to him. That creates the space for these runners (Shelvey, Gylfi etc) behind him. Again, a short passing style does this. Yes they'll 'lump' it toward him on occasion, but to feet (or chest if it is misplaced) so TM/S could work but with his dribbling, a DLF may be an even better choice.

[wpmk]

The player is a lump, not the pass to him.

By backing into his centreback and holding him off. I want my centreforward to stick to the last defender and receive the ball to feet.

If you need a visual aid just watch Swansea highlights from the first half of last season when Bony and Gylfi played together.

Again, as explained earlier, that's counter-intuitive to possession football. Use Deep Lying Forward on Attack if you want your forward to be positioned further up the pitch.

The Target Man is an alternative option. For every person who doesn't want to hit it long to the big man there's another person who does. Not everybody wants to play possession football, especially if they have a team with poor passing attributes, so sometimes they need an option up front that accomodates this dilemma.

The name gives it away a bit no? The same goes for the Wide Target Man—they're options you want to hit when making long passes.

[swansongs]

Again, as explained earlier, that's counter-intuitive to possession football. Use Deep Lying Forward on Attack if you want your forward to be positioned further up the pitch.

DLF-A has mandatory movement into channels. TM-A doesn't.

DLF-S has mandatory risky passes. TM-S doesn't.

[Lashley]

Would defensive forward with the targetman PI's not be a good alternative?

[ckaracay]

the problem is not what would work instead of TM role. we want to be able to play as we see fit; not the game overriding our choice of buildup play and taking away our choice.

[QWERTYOP]

I honestly think returning the distribution to target man head or feet tactical option would solve things. I can't for the life of me understand why it was removed.

[ckaracay]

i dont think it will change that much; gk/defenders will still keep on hoofing the ball.

[QWERTYOP]

They wouldn't if the instruction to play to ball to the target man on the floor was brought back.

[DurinVIII]

Would defensive forward with the targetman PI's not be a good alternative?

Sort off, but it can't use Get Further Forward.

[Lashley]

Sort off, but it can't use Get Further Forward.

Ah damn

[Shakes]

I'd like to chime in with some empirical evidence to this debate. I play a 4-4-1-1 tactic that I recently modified to include a target man as that best suited the strikers I have available, and I wasn't happy with their previous contribution.

When I didn't have a target man I topped the league for possession with 60.9%. When I did I still topped the league with 62.7%. Both stats are over a complete season, not just a couple of games. I don't have a team that's naturally going to win possession no matter what - I don't press and I'm a weaker team in the league. I also aren't retaining possession just because my target man is so brilliant - my strikers are one of the weak links in the team.

To me it seems like the idea that a target man instantly results in hoofing the ball away is a myth. Having him isn't going to completely override your team instructions - if you're set up for possession adding a target man is not going to break that. What I do observe is that the striker does see more of the ball (as you'd expect given he's a target), but it's certainly not all from kicking it as far as possible to him.

[OrientTillIDie]

I'd like to chime in with some empirical evidence to this debate. I play a 4-4-1-1 tactic that I recently modified to include a target man as that best suited the strikers I have available, and I wasn't happy with their previous contribution.

When I didn't have a target man I topped the league for possession with 60.9%. When I did I still topped the league with 62.7%. Both stats are over a complete season, not just a couple of games. I don't have a team that's naturally going to win possession no matter what - I don't press and I'm a weaker team in the league. I also aren't retaining possession just because my target man is so brilliant - my strikers are one of the weak links in the team.

To me it seems like the idea that a target man instantly results in hoofing the ball away is a myth. Having him isn't going to completely override your team instructions - if you're set up for possession adding a target man is not going to break that. What I do observe is that the striker does see more of the ball (as you'd expect given he's a target), but it's certainly not all from kicking it as far as possible to him.

While I don't doubt that your experience is true, I am going to disagree that it's a myth. I play with shorter passing and retain possession, lower tempo, everything you need to play a short passing game. Yet as soon as I put a target man in, my defenders completely bypass my midfield 9 times out of 10 and smash it up to my striker. That's the reason I posted this thread in the first place; because I've seen it with my own eyes.

[HUNT3R]

While I don't doubt that your experience is true, I am going to disagree that it's a myth. I play with shorter passing and retain possession, lower tempo, everything you need to play a short passing game. Yet as soon as I put a target man in, my defenders completely bypass my midfield 9 times out of 10 and smash it up to my striker. That's the reason I posted this thread in the first place; because I've seen it with my own eyes.

The more likely explanation is that your players don't have passing options with those extreme settings, so they're using the Target Man as the outlet.

[OrientTillIDie]

The more likely explanation is that your players don't have passing options with those extreme settings, so they're using the Target Man as the outlet.

Even when playing with a 4-1-3-1-1? Three midfielders from back to front and wide players to spread it too? Anchor Man, Deep Lying Playmaker and Attacking Midfielder through the middle with support wingers? What more can I do? My players would literally have to be blind to not see a pass. I've watched the games and they have options, just ignore them and smash if forwards. It does my bloody head in.

[HUNT3R]

Even when playing with a 4-1-3-1-1? Three midfielders from back to front and wide players to spread it too? Anchor Man, Deep Lying Playmaker and Attacking Midfielder through the middle with support wingers? What more can I do? My players would literally have to be blind to not see a pass. I've watched the games and they have options, just ignore them and smash if forwards. It does my bloody head in.

No, they'll see the pass, but it may be outside the range you instructed. You shorten passing so much, you might be sitting with a small range where the players need to be quite close to each other. It'll depend on the mentality, how much creative freedom they have and where the players are; if they really are close enough.

[Raniel3]

No, they'll see the pass, but it may be outside the range you instructed. You shorten passing so much, you might be sitting with a small range where the players need to be quite close to each other. It'll depend on the mentality, how much creative freedom they have and where the players are; if they really are close enough.

However, it would be really helpful to hear what the target man role REALLY changes. Does it e.g. set every 4th pass to be a long one? Does it make the target man the number one passing target? It's hard to understand how much impact the role has on the play if you don't know what and how much it actually changes play-wise.

[RTHerringbone]

However, it would be really helpful to hear what the target man role REALLY changes. Does it e.g. set every 4th pass to be a long one? Does it make the target man the number one passing target? It's hard to understand how much impact the role has on the play if you don't know what and how much it actually changes play-wise.

As with the influence of Playmaker Roles, it makes the Target Man the number one passing target. Where it isn't viable, alternate passing targets will be sought. This isn't new and has been the case for years.

[Raniel3]

As with the influence of Playmaker Roles, it makes the Target Man the number one passing target. Where it isn't viable, alternate passing targets will be sought. This isn't new and has been the case for years.

But this would mean it would make no difference if you play shorter passing and keeping possession, as he is always the number one target. This contradicts HUNT3R's statement about the target man being looked for because short passing options are missing (because this would mean the target man is NOT the number one passing target). I suppose it is rather a more flexible approach, as in the target man get's some sort of bonus on the "passing decision list", so it depends on the situation and the quality of other options (again being determined by passing lenght) if he reaches the top of the list - and receives the ball - or not. But I don't think he is the number one passing target per se

Then again, what is "viable" for a target man? By definition he should be a viable target almost always.

[HUNT3R]

But this would mean it would make no difference if you play shorter passing and keeping possession, as he is always the number one target. This contradicts HUNT3R's statement about the target man being looked for because short passing options are missing (because this would mean the target man is NOT the number one passing target). I suppose it is rather a more flexible approach, as in the target man get's some sort of bonus on the "passing decision list", so it depends on the situation and the quality of other options (again being determined by passing lenght) if he reaches the top of the list - and receives the ball - or not. But I don't think he is the number one passing target per se

Then again, what is "viable" for a target man? By definition he should be a viable target almost always.

The person I was replying to said that he doesn't see short passing. That they just lump it at the first opportunity, which isn't universally true. I gave him another explanation as to why he sees his players lump it forward every single time.

They don't lump it forward every time, but you do need to remember that he is the target man and players will look to use him as one, so passes into him must be expected.

[HUNT3R]

While I don't doubt that your experience is true, I am going to disagree that it's a myth. I play with shorter passing and retain possession, lower tempo, everything you need to play a short passing game. Yet as soon as I put a target man in, my defenders completely bypass my midfield 9 times out of 10 and smash it up to my striker. That's the reason I posted this thread in the first place; because I've seen it with my own eyes.

This tactic took me literally 30 seconds to create and it took only 5 mins (and the next one less than a minute later) to find the first of many good passing sequences without constant lumping to forwards you mention. It still didn't happen much before or after.

Gomis, the TM/S, scored 4 in the match too.

Looking at passes received, he was definitely very involved, as he should be in a 4-1-4-1. He had to hold up the ball and wait for support. He received 75 passes, the most (with the second most going to the AP/S, 71, Sung-Heung) so he was a focal point along with the only playmaker. You can hardly call these lumps though and the longer ones were from wide, similar to the Naughton pass in the video clip. In these he drops deeper to shake a defender and picks up the ball fairly easily.

[Shakes]

Whether the target man is the number one target depends entirely on the rest of what you're doing. My DLP receives a hell of a lot more passes than my target man, because he's simply in better position to do so. In a team with a target man he's averaging over 100 passes per game. If it were true that adding a target man meant the midfield was regularly bypassed then this simply wouldn't happen.

Again, changing the role to target man did not make my team into mindless drones that hoof the ball to him. I'm seeing him receive the ball only a little more than he did in other roles. Without going through the entire season's matches and analyzing it, I'd eyeball the effect I saw as at the very most a 25% increase. Obviously what you see is going to depend on a number of other factors, so I'm not claiming any sort of universal rule here, but I am claiming it's possible to play a target man and a possession style because I'm doing it.

[Jean0987654321]

I never get these types of sytem. Ultilizing a TM to play possession soccer. Sounds really one dimensional. A possession tactic relies on the whole team to work as one to retain possession. Why would anyone use a TM to Counter produce that?

I can get playing a counter attacking game with one but possession? I guess the logic within the tactical system is still flawed to an extent that a tactic that makes no sense IRL would work in the game? Maybe, but if that's the case, at least it getting you Ws...

[Shakes]

I don't understand why you think it would be one dimensional. I had one dimension: possession. I added a target man to give it another dimension: when possession isn't the right option, they can also seek him out. Why do you think adding more options to a system makes it one dimensional?

It's perfectly logical to me, because I'm not thinking of my tactic as a target man system, I'm thinking of my tactic as a system that happens to have a target man. There are 11 guys out there and what one guy does doesn't have to define the tactic.

[ckaracay]

This tactic took me literally 30 seconds to create and it took only 5 mins (and the next one less than a minute later) to find the first of many good passing sequences without constant lumping to forwards you mention. It still didn't happen much before or after.

Gomis, the TM/S, scored 4 in the match too.

Looking at passes received, he was definitely very involved, as he should be in a 4-1-4-1. He had to hold up the ball and wait for support. He received 75 passes, the most (with the second most going to the AP/S, 71, Sung-Heung) so he was a focal point along with the only playmaker. You can hardly call these lumps though and the longer ones were from wide, similar to the Naughton pass in the video clip. In these he drops deeper to shake a defender and picks up the ball fairly easily.

care to share with us your tactics with us then? cos i simply can not get that done; oh and also try with a TM/A pls.

[HUNT3R]

care to share with us your tactics with us then? cos i simply can not get that done; oh and also try with a TM/A pls.

It was literally just roles thrown together and one PI (Play Out Of Defence, IIRC) with a Counter mentality. There was nothing to it and no detail in it.

If you're struggling, it'll be best to open a thread with your specific issues.

[shadowraiden90]

I never get these types of sytem. Ultilizing a TM to play possession soccer. Sounds really one dimensional. A possession tactic relies on the whole team to work as one to retain possession. Why would anyone use a TM to Counter produce that?

I can get playing a counter attacking game with one but possession? I guess the logic within the tactical system is still flawed to an extent that a tactic that makes no sense IRL would work in the game? Maybe, but if that's the case, at least it getting you Ws...

how does it make no sense in real life yet plenty of teams play with a "target man" striker yet dominate possession heck Arsenal have that in Giroud he offers something else to the normal skill on the ball players like Sanchez etc.

Swansea have one of the best passing stats in the premiership and yet for a long time played with a target man style striker in that system.

a target man isnt about just hoofing it to him to win unless you set up the team to play like that you can easily setup a large strong target man to receive the ball and hold up play and then keep possession just he does it in his own way which is through his strength not his ability on the ball although their are strikers out their who are target men with amazing on the ball ability like Ibra at PSG.

[swansongs]

Swansea have one of the best passing stats in the premiership

Not any more we don't ... .

[saihtam]

Any thoughts about using target man with raumdeuters?

[shadowraiden90]

the problem i have with Raumdeuter is u need somebody so specific in his stats to truly see it shine and be a better option then just having them as ins forward or winger.