For or against Che Guevara

[Frazza Pee]

you're either a murderer or not murderer, there is 'extent' to it. without going into all the 'guilty mind' stuff in Law, if you intend to kill someone, you are a murderer.

Actually, in Turkey, if you kill someone with honour in mind it is accepted. If someone threatens anyone in your direct family you are allowed to kill them and get away with it. So, in that light, are you still a murderer? Yes, but to an extent, which is the point I'm getting at.

[PMLF]

Actually, in Turkey, if you kill someone with honour in mind it is accepted. If someone threatens anyone in your direct family you are allowed to kill them and get away with it. So, in that light, are you still a murderer? Yes, but to an extent, which is the point I'm getting at.

This is not Guevara's case, and in Western countries like Cuba, Argentina and Bolivia this mentality is extremely uncommon.

[Moaner]

Actually, in Turkey, if you kill someone with honour in mind it is accepted. If someone threatens anyone in your direct family you are allowed to kill them and get away with it. So, in that light, are you still a murderer? Yes, but to an extent, which is the point I'm getting at.

i'm not in turkey. che wasn't in turkey. hitler wasn't in turkey. the young lads stabbing people on britains streets are not from turkey......waaaaiiiit a minute. anyway the way i see it, killing is murder unless you have sufficient evidence to prove otherwise or in obviosuly special cases (self defence, MOD, euthenasia and so)

[tomtuck01]

Personally, I think this another pointless thread. Who cares what image SI use as a symbol for somthing upcoming in FM09?

All of those saying "it's a disgrace, he's [Che Guevara] a mass murder," need to get a life as you are all pointlessly complaining about something that doesn't really matter to you. All of you who are creating new threads about this and complaining like hell are all playing into SI's hands, as the image they have used was done so to cause a stir, and indeed it has.

Stop moaning over nothing, and look forward to the announcement about FM09 on September 3rd.

Have a nice day.

[Frazza Pee]

i'm not in turkey. che wasn't in turkey. hitler wasn't in turkey. the young lads stabbing people on britains streets are not from turkey......waaaaiiiit a minute. anyway the way i see it, killing is murder unless you have sufficient evidence to prove otherwise or in obviosuly special cases (self defence, MOD, euthenasia and so)

I was just using Turkey as an example, you don't need to nit-pick about it. I was just trying to get my point across.

[Moaner]

Actually, in Turkey, if you kill someone with honour in mind it is accepted. If someone threatens anyone in your direct family you are allowed to kill them and get away with it. So, in that light, are you still a murderer? Yes, but to an extent, which is the point I'm getting at.

I was just using Turkey as an example, you don't need to nit-pick about it. I was just trying to get my point across.

i know, i know. i honestly wasn't having a go. in fact i don't even know why im getting caught up in this thread as i have little interest on who's picture is used on the announcent screen of SI's website but more so with what is going to be in the actual game!

[5_is_better_than_3]

Whats the opposit of Che Guevara? Adolf Hitler and you wouldnt use his picture would you? they are both extreamists in there own way, and Guevara was a communist? Communists have killed more than Nazis. FM2010 Expecting Osama Bin Laden on the front cover. Poor attempt,shudve stayed nutural on this one SI.

[5_is_better_than_3]

Woudnt do to bad down the left wing though

[Esteban_J88]

Che Guevara is a legend. Not because he is on t-shirts, or every half-camp man's manbag...he is a freedom fighter, a man who made a sacrifice for his people.

[5_is_better_than_3]

He was Argentine not Cuban.

[5_is_better_than_3]

Che Guevara is a legend. Not because he is on t-shirts, or every half-camp man's manbag...he is a freedom fighter, a man who made a sacrifice for his people.

I guessed you where a Celtic fan.

[Chel10ham Town fc]

Its a game i dont care who is on the cover, i care about the GAME and its GAMEPLAY.

I think and many others do also, that they used this guy to represent that FM09 will be some sort of revolution in footy man gaming, a smart and good ploy by the SI marketing team.

From the brief research i have done on him ( i didnt really know who he was only knew he stood for revolution) i have found he tried to help people in severe poverty and in the end was effectivley assasinated by the CIA. Whatever people say some people will think he did right and some wrong.

[Criztian12]

Che Guevara is a legend. Not because he is on t-shirts, or every half-camp man's manbag...he is a freedom fighter, a man who made a sacrifice for his people.

Oh yeah, cause Cuba is just swimming in freedom.

I don't think he should have been used, he has nothing to do with football.

[Wasma]

i find it pretty funny they use che guevara. its pretty obvious they wouldnt use michael collins as he closer to home and will make the brits feel less comfortable. so instead they use a pic of someone thousands of miles away. over there you can be sure they too may have some mixed feelings about che but since he's so far away it doesnt seem to matter as much.

[croaker]

i couldnt give a crap but i voted yes and we are tanking everybody 104-75

[cice2]

Most heroes in Chinese history are murderers like Che. One of the most famous even boast of cannibalising on his enemy in his song, an acclaimed work of art. William Wallace isn't too innocent at his time. Good luck demonising them.

[rougess]

"you can take our lives, but you'll never take our freedom to advertise!"

[tarbanrael]

I honestly think it does not make that much of a difference for most of the hardcore fans. As far as i'm concerned the DVD (which seems to be the format this time around) could be wrapped in recycled paper, I would still buy it.

I can see why it would be tempting to use someone like Guevara, which is a very popular T-shirt amongst the younger generation. As long as SI do not resort to putting Victoria Beckham or Britney Spears, I don't really care.

[AcidBurn]

I really don't care what they use I will buy it because I love FM despite the bugs it has on release it is the most playable computer game ever(along with Sensi soccer and Mario on the NES but I was only 11 years old then maybe younger)

For me it does not offend me that they used Che and it would not offend me if they used Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin, Vlad the Implaer, Margret Thatcher, Kevin Keegan, Spongebob Square Pants, Noel Edmonds or any other horror from the past or present. People need to get over it as most are too easily offended these days. I mean does it really matter?

[Come Clarity]

Really, really needs the "I don't care, but please stop complaining about it" option.

[BamaToon]

Che Guevara is a legend. Not because he is on t-shirts, or every half-camp man's manbag...he is a freedom fighter, a man who made a sacrifice for his people.

Yet I have to wonder what the Communist revolutionary himself would think about having his image mass-marketed in an evil capitalist society...

[iamweesel]

SI clearly saying there's something revolutionary in FM09

[Matt ex SEGA]

I'm looking forward to signing him to play up front for the mighty hatters. i hope they get his data right.

[Moaner]

Yet I have to wonder what the Communist revolutionary himself would think about having his image mass-marketed in an evil capitalist society...

i think he'd say..."wow, don't i make that man-bag look goooooood"

[Nomis07]

I can't wait to see the facegen Che.

[Ninjamark]

SI clearly saying there's something revolutionary in FM09

After blasting around Wikipedia for a little while i've found the link between Che and Football Manager...

On Guevara's Wiki...

Guevara learned chess from his father and began participating in local tournaments by the age of 12. During his adolescence and throughout his life he was passionate about poetry, especially that of Neruda, Keats, Machado, Lorca, Mistral, Vallejo, and Whitman.[11] He could also recite Kipling's "If" and Hernández's "Martín Fierro" from memory.[12]

On the Wiki site for If you'll see the following...

The Football Manager 2008 trailer is based upon the poem

So there is the link.... Mystery solved!

[DB11]

Don't give two hoots.

[khriztian]

Strongly against!

I really dislike the fact that FM cover features a mass murder terrorist, who professed an ideology of hate, intolerance and terror.

I'm sure that many of the ones that voted yes have never lived under a communist regime, i hope you visit North Korea, Cuba and terrorist camps over Colombia and Venezuela., morrons...

[deanpr]

Personally I think it has nothing to do with FM

I agree; a bad choice. A man who has no association with football. Bad choice!

[SCIAG]

I really don't care what they use I will buy it because I love FM despite the bugs it has on release it is the most playable computer game ever(along with Sensi soccer and Mario on the NES but I was only 11 years old then maybe younger)

For me it does not offend me that they used Che and it would not offend me if they used Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin, Vlad the Implaer, Margret Thatcher, Kevin Keegan, Spongebob Square Pants, Noel Edmonds or any other horror from the past or present. People need to get over it as most are too easily offended these days. I mean does it really matter?

Now you mention it, that's a good idea...

[FM08_Joe]

Where's the option for i don't care?

I only care about the game

[DMaster2]

I don't care.

SI need to make an impact and they succeded.

[PMLF]

Strongly against!

I really dislike the fact that FM cover features a mass murder terrorist, who professed an ideology of hate, intolerance and terror.

I'm sure that many of the ones that voted yes have never lived under a communist regime, i hope you visit North Korea, Cuba and terrorist camps over Colombia and Venezuela., morrons...

You are completely right, but sadly it's easy for people that live in developed countries to support regimes (and their associated ideologies) in other countries but they wouldn't really like to have these regimes in their own countries.

It's pretty obvious though he was chosen because of his reputation (revolution).

[Coop624]

I think it is really bad

[awblade]

how can anyone be for or against che guevara when they don't even know what the picture of him is meant to stand for. you complete imbeciles

whatever it is i just hope that the next game is good. mainly transfer wise and confidence wise. everything else seems ok

[CSF90]

Controversy is the best type of marketing

[Come Clarity]

Strongly against!

I really dislike the fact that FM cover features a mass murder terrorist, who professed an ideology of hate, intolerance and terror.

I'm sure that many of the ones that voted yes have never lived under a communist regime, i hope you visit North Korea, Cuba and terrorist camps over Colombia and Venezuela., morrons...

Fair enough, but then it's not the FM09 Cover, and is merely an advertising slide.

Near enough every leader in the world has at one point become controversial. Most people would be more offended if they saw a picture of Gordon Brown instead of Che. If you can't understand the context of the image, then don't post. If you're offended by the context then fair enough, but I think we live in a liberal enough society these days.

[JonPaulWild]

Fair enough, but then it's not the FM09 Cover, and is merely an advertising slide.

Near enough every leader in the world has at one point become controversial. Most people would be more offended if they saw a picture of Gordon Brown instead of Che. If you can't understand the context of the image, then don't post. If you're offended by the context then fair enough, but I think we live in a liberal enough society these days.

It's true that it most likely wont be used as the cover, but it has been created, promoted and endorsed by the powers that be at Sega/Sports Interactive. Therefore, it doesn't matter if it's going to be the cover or not the mere fact they're using a terrorist/murderer to promote a product is shocking.

[Petros7]

It's true that it most likely wont be used as the cover, but it has been created, promoted and endorsed by the powers that be at Sega/Sports Interactive. Therefore, it doesn't matter if it's going to be the cover or not the mere fact they're using a terrorist/murderer to promote a product is shocking.

Thank you for your opinion!

*eats popcorn*

[dycemcc]

Exposing the Real Che Guevara: And the Useful Idiots Who Idolize Him

Read this book, it is enlightning. I played college basketball with a guy whose father was murdered my guevara and his cronies and I teach with a woman whose husband, a doctor, was imprisoned by him, so before you say "learn your history", get some primary sources of your own.

Che Guevara's image is one of the most overused in the world, so I fail to see anything about this being "offensive" or a stroke of marketing genius.

And to anyone who says Che was a terrorist or a bad man etc., then LEARN YOUR HISTORY!!!!!!!!!

Like Castro, Mandela and Haile Sellassie, Ernesto was a man of the people.

The greatest ruler of all time was a dictator in Caesar. My opinion mind...

[dycemcc]

As for a couple of other revolutionaries you may know something about, how about George Washington or Sir William Wallace. FREEEEEEEEDOMMMMMMM!!!!! All guevara did was revolutionize a country to a system that proves is good in theory and worthless in reality. Socialism/communism is dead. All of your so called "revolutionaries" who turned countries communist, how many dead- Satlin 30 million, Mao 50 million(?), Pol Pot 3 million, Castro ?, We could use some more people like them, right. Advertising doesn't have to be controversial to be successful.

Exposing the Real Che Guevara: And the Useful Idiots Who Idolize Him

Read this book, it is enlightning. I played college basketball with a guy whose father was murdered my guevara and his cronies and I teach with a woman whose husband, a doctor, was imprisoned by him, so before you say "learn your history", get some primary sources of your own.

[tomtuck01]

dycemcc, as I said in the earlier thread you started;

One mans mudering, communist scumbag (as you so eloquently put it), is another man's revolutionist/hero.

Do a search in future as it's a point that has been raised before......

......or alternatively, get a life and stop moaning about something that probably doesn't concern you or have much (if any) impact on you or anyone you know.[/Quote]

[dycemcc]

or alternatively, get a life and stop moaning about something that probably doesn't concern you or have much (if any) impact on you or anyone you know.

If you would read my earlier post about specific people that i do know. Also, can you be dismissive of my points. Are you a socialist or communist yourself. It must hurt to read the truth.

dycemcc, as I said in the earlier thread you started;

[paulmatthewbrowne]

I dont live in England, what was the advert? and where can I see it?

[dycemcc]

home page of sigames.com Che is holding a soccer ball. I guess it must be a 'revlutionary' new game

[dycemcc]

sorry you have to click on a link that previews football manager 2009

[wardog]

who exactly is this person, and what does he have to do with FM advertiseing. Never thought their was a face on the cover. Or am i wrong.

[GillsMan]

Exposing the Real Che Guevara: And the Useful Idiots Who Idolize Him

Read this book, it is enlightning. I played college basketball with a guy whose father was murdered my guevara and his cronies and I teach with a woman whose husband, a doctor, was imprisoned by him, so before you say "learn your history", get some primary sources of your own.

Nelson Mandela was also a terrorist and was directly or indirectly responsible for the deaths of many innocent people. Doesn't make him a bad person though. Anyway, I've no idea why you resurrected this thread a month later, just to make your point. It's irrelevant in here - which is GQ about Football Manager. Not a discussion on the rights and wrongs of various revolutionists/dictators, etc. So perhaps a mod should lock this thread now?

[paulmatthewbrowne]

http://www.sigames.com/graphics/images/1719.jpg

so this is what all the fuss is about!

that's nothing, football has nothing to do with politics, if it was a picture of Che holding hands with Blair and Bush then it might be slightly controversial, but just a picture of him holding a football is nothing. Some people have way too much time on their hands!

[El Zar]

http://www.sigames.com/graphics/images/1719.jpg

so this is what all the fuss is about!

that's nothing, football has nothing to do with politics, if it was a picture of Che holding hands with Blair and Bush then it might be slightly controversial, but just a picture of him holding a football is nothing. Some people have way too much time on their hands!

What people don't like is that this is a man who has ordered and carried out the deaths of thousands of people in Latin America. By using an image of Ché simply to advertise a "revolutionary" feature in the game SI is making light of this situation.