Ajax Youth Development – When The Real World Meets Football Manager

[crazyscotsman]

it it were me - i would try dm. I would want to look for a higher rating in teamwork and influence for the defender/sweeper role. I also look at those two attributes among others for DM role also.

[Cleon]

it it were me - i would try dm. I would want to look for a higher rating in teamwork and influence for the defender/sweeper role. I also look at those two attributes among others for DM role also.

Influence has no bearing unless he is the captain....

[olivermain83]

Thanks. The more I look at him the more I think he's maybe not suited to be the SW. His acceleration seems like it's too low for him to ever really be effective there. DM will probably be best.

[Cleon]

Thanks. The more I look at him the more I think he's maybe not suited to be the SW. His acceleration seems like it's too low for him to ever really be effective there. DM will probably be best.

How do you work that out?

As a sweeper he'll have less space to cover than the DMC spot. At DMC he'll be expected to cover central and wide areas so would need a decent amount of pace/acceleration to be effective at this. The more space someone has to cover the more speed they should have imo.

Looking at his attributes I wouldn't use him as either because he lacks some vital attributes like composure, first touch and agility. The lack of agility will mean he can't turn and change direction fast, which can be a major issue if he is tracking back etc. Plus he lacks natural fitness and the DMC is a demanding role, so he could become a liability playing several matches in a row and pick up more niggling injuries when playing a demanding role.

I'd be more inclined to use him as a BWM/B2B midfielder instead.

[olivermain83]

I always thought that a sweeper need to be pretty mobile to react quickly to threats as he was the last line of defense. With a DM I thought they'd more sit in from of the defense and be an obstacle to be beaten. I am new to sweepers though so good to get a better idea of what stats are needed. I was sure that Accel. was one of the key stats highlighted on the SW role though.

Knowing what stats are really key for roles is something I really need to get a better grasp of. For example, I've got Aidan White on my left wing and although he looks good but not great, he plays amazing and tears RB's to shreds every game. I think I must be underestimating Physical stats or PPMs.

[Riziger]

Something slightly weird regarding tutoring: I recently signed Dave Barnett as player/coach. Reputation National, backup to first team. Hoping for him to tutor my youth who also plays DC. Reputation local, Hot prospect for future.

Weirdly, Dave can only tutor 1 person in my whole youth squad (not the player I wanted him to). Any idea why this is? Does the value of the player come into play?

EDIT: Upon further inspection, I have Rivaldo, who is valued 30k tutoring Ryan Gauld who is valued 325k. So this doesn't seem to be the case. Rivaldo has National rep with Gauld Local rep.

Strange.

[max787]

Something slightly weird regarding tutoring: I recently signed Dave Barnett as player/coach. Reputation National, backup to first team. Hoping for him to tutor my youth who also plays DC. Reputation local, Hot prospect for future.

Weirdly, Dave can only tutor 1 person in my whole youth squad (not the player I wanted him to). Any idea why this is? Does the value of the player come into play?

The youth may actually have a higher rep than Dave Barnett, "national" rep is a rep range, so although they are both within this range the youngster may have a higher rep.

[Bruce Drundrige]

I always thought that a sweeper need to be pretty mobile to react quickly to threats as he was the last line of defense. With a DM I thought they'd more sit in from of the defense and be an obstacle to be beaten. I am new to sweepers though so good to get a better idea of what stats are needed. I was sure that Accel. was one of the key stats highlighted on the SW role though.

Knowing what stats are really key for roles is something I really need to get a better grasp of. For example, I've got Aidan White on my left wing and although he looks good but not great, he plays amazing and tears RB's to shreds every game. I think I must be underestimating Physical stats or PPMs.

Most modern sweepers IRL played there because they no longer had pace, or as much as they used to, but instead had fantastic ability to read the game and anticipate potential problems and snuff them out in advance. See Baresi, Sammer, etc.

[szp]

I have a problem with tutoring. I'm Hertha BSC manager and i bought Wilfried Bony. I want him to tutor my very talented regen, but when i open the screen 'talk to player' the option

"tutoring" is inactive. Is it because Bony was bought only few weeks ago?

[TwinsFan86]

I have a problem with tutoring. I'm Hertha BSC manager and i bought Wilfried Bony. I want him to tutor my very talented regen, but when i open the screen 'talk to player' the option

"tutoring" is inactive. Is it because Bony was bought only few weeks ago?

Hover over the grey tutoring option and it will tell you why he can't tutor anyone.

[Riziger]

The youth may actually have a higher rep than Dave Barnett, "national" rep is a rep range, so although they are both within this range the youngster may have a higher rep.

Hmmm the youth has a "Local" rep. I see it as the Tutor is known nationally, whilst the Tutee is known in his local area, hence the Tutor should have a higher reputation?

Also, like I said, it worked for Rivaldo, which is in exactly the same situation. Strange.

[jonnyriv]

Great thread, really enjoyed reading it over two days. One thing i am still a little unsure about is what is better for 15 to 18 year olds, rotating individual attibutes or role training. It would appear to be easier to train role specific attributes for a couple of years and then move to rotating individual attribute training to fill in any gaps.

I have started started a game with southampton as i have been inspired. Been pleased with my results so far.

[Guest]

Great thread, really enjoyed reading it over two days. One thing i am still a little unsure about is what is better for 15 to 18 year olds, rotating individual attibutes or role training. It would appear to be easier to train role specific attributes for a couple of years and then move to rotating individual attribute training to fill in any gaps.

I have started started a game with southampton as i have been inspired. Been pleased with my results so far.

I am not sure about others, but I focus on the role training first and then when they are getting close to the first team I start focusing on specific attributes.

[Cleon]

I am not sure about others, but I focus on the role training first and then when they are getting close to the first team I start focusing on specific attributes.

The other way for me.

I like a player to have an identity straight away and then I try and define him for that role, hence why I work on all the individual attributes first. Then I'll work on a role schedule once I'm happy the player has the required attributes needed.

[Guest]

The other way for me.

I like a player to have an identity straight away and then I try and define him for that role, hence why I work on all the individual attributes first. Then I'll work on a role schedule once I'm happy the player has the required attributes needed.

That's quite interesting, thanks Cleon.

[MeesterCat]

I've just started a Feyenoord save and, given their quality young players, this thread is going to be my bible

[jonnyriv]

The other way for me.

I like a player to have an identity straight away and then I try and define him for that role, hence why I work on all the individual attributes first. Then I'll work on a role schedule once I'm happy the player has the required attributes needed.

Thanks Cleon, i am curious as to whether training for a role and ie more attributes at once stunts the developement a bit versus short bursts of individual attribute training, or does it make no difference?

I have been focusing on role in the first season and seems ok.

[Cleon]

Thanks Cleon, i am curious as to whether training for a role and ie more attributes at once stunts the developement a bit versus short bursts of individual attribute training, or does it make no difference?

I have been focusing on role in the first season and seems ok.

Compare the development of all the players I've posted to yours and make your own judgement on which seems to work better.

[jonnyriv]

Annoyingly some of my players after learning a PPM have the option greyed out, not for all but two players now its happened with, i hover over but it says nothing. Annoying

[UITDEHOOGTE]

Great topic Cleon! It's cool to see other people playing with my favorite football club. I started my first game with Ajax right after the release and I'm still playing it. Currently i'm in 2028

and after years of building up a decent scouting team and finding wonderkids I started to train my own youth (yeah I know.......) Atm I have 3 dutch players from the youth development that are one of the worlds greatest and a few kids that are working on it.

Keep it up! I'm learning a lot from the new info that I can find here.

[hehehemann]

I am excited with my first youth intake at slavia prague. With my present team badly aging I will be looking to some free transfers and the rotation of these players into the squad. The board want me to promote from within too and the training facilities are excellent.

Is there any benefit to signing them to full time contracts right now as they are only 14 or 15?

[Kurospidey]

First of all: congratulations Cleon. This is a wonderful thread. I always scratched my head around tactics but this approach is one I can understand perfectly. I've been reading this for two days from beginning to end and needless to say it's bookmarked.

I was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction regarding a scout strategy/guide via a link to another thread or site where this is explained (I'm so noob in this regard) as Cleon seems to be too busy to put his own.

Anyway, thank you to Cleon and to all who contributed.

And a little question to finish: How do you think the role specific training fits with a very fluid, attacking football philosophy where supposedly all the players can do a lot of different things?

[DocSander]

..."national" rep is a rep range, so although they are both within this range the youngster may have a higher rep.

Does anyone know how to tackle this issue?

I have a highly talented 20-year old youngster, but his personality (temperamental) needs some hard tutor sessions for him to succeed and fullfill his potential.

He has a 'national' reputation, and I have a hard time finding a suitable tutor within the financial constraints of my Championship side (after five promotions in eight years!)

Can you see the reputation of potential tutors in more detail than just 'national'? So how would I know if a potential 'national' reputation tutor has a higher reputation than my talent?

And does sorting by reputation list players with higher 'national' reputation above players with lower 'national' reputation? My talent always shows up pretty high in the long list of 'national' reputation players that I have, so he might be on the very high side of 'national'.

Thanks in advance for this very inspring thread!

[faraowww]

Good thread, I like the approach of teaching ppm's that suit the player. I have one question about it though. Is there any advantage to teaching ppm's that can also be achieved through tactics. For example if I set the instructions of my midfielder to short passing, long shots often and run from deep often, does it make any sense to teach him the ppm's "play short simple passes", "shoots from distance" and "gets forward whenever possible"? Does a player get better at the ppm's or does he just try the ppm's more often?

[MichaelBrown]

I am excited with my first youth intake at slavia prague. With my present team badly aging I will be looking to some free transfers and the rotation of these players into the squad. The board want me to promote from within too and the training facilities are excellent.

Is there any benefit to signing them to full time contracts right now as they are only 14 or 15?

I personally would, that's an incredible youth intake by the way.

[Kraiden]

Ajax have Europe's most prolific academy

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/football-ajax-europes-prolific-academy-survey-020037144.html

"The International Centre for Sports Studies (CIES) conducted a survey of Europe's most competitive 31 leagues last year and found 69 players who had been coached at the Dutch club."

[DJ Sir Matthew]

Plus he lacks natural fitness and the DMC is a demanding role, so he could become a liability playing several matches in a row and pick up more niggling injuries when playing a demanding role.

I'd be more inclined to use him as a BWM/B2B midfielder instead.

I would suppose that a B2B midfielder role is even more demanding?

[Cleon]

I would suppose that a B2B midfielder role is even more demanding?

No not at all. The DMC covers a lot more ground than a B2B midfielder would. In reality the B2B midfielder doesn't do what the name suggest

[Fabian Jonsson]

I sorry if this has been asked before, but I want to adopt the system of having exactly 16+16 player at the club at any given time (as one of my biggest flaws is always buying too many youngsters), and I was just sitting down trying to plan out the "position distribution".

I plan to have an inside forward (AMR) and a (lone) deep-lying forward, and thought that it might be possible to combine those positions so that I have 3+3 capable of playing those roles. That's some background, now to my question. Given that, would you:

1, only sign players capable of playing both positions (probably not, right?)

2, try to retrain all youth prospects so that they are capable of playing both positions

3, try to maintain a roughly even distribution, that is 3 AMR and 3 ST of different ages

[Cleon]

I sorry if this has been asked before, but I want to adopt the system of having exactly 16+16 player at the club at any given time (as one of my biggest flaws is always buying too many youngsters), and I was just sitting down trying to plan out the "position distribution".

I plan to have an inside forward (AMR) and a (lone) deep-lying forward, and thought that it might be possible to combine those positions so that I have 3+3 capable of playing those roles. That's some background, now to my question. Given that, would you:

1, only sign players capable of playing both positions (probably not, right?)

2, try to retrain all youth prospects so that they are capable of playing both positions

3, try to maintain a roughly even distribution, that is 3 AMR and 3 ST of different ages

All 3 are viable so its down to choice.

Just remember that a player with many different positions uses up a lot of CA.

[glyndav]

Cleon,

I haven't got a question to add to this topic as everything I can think of has either been covered in your op or in the 14 pages that have followed! I just wanted to say thank you for your efforts in this thread, it has been game changing for me.

When FM13 first came out, to say I was not a fan of the new training system would have been an understatement! I thought at the time it was too restrictive in terms of what you could do. Since then and playing around with it, and then discovering this thread, it has been anything but and to be honest it is where I now get the most enjoyment from FM.

Personally, i am not a big contributor to these forums as i dont think there is much value i can add. Ive been playing these games for twenty years now and every incarnation that comes out, i always have a couple of queries or need to sense check my understanding of them, and i can always get the answer from one of your threads wihout needing to ask the question too often.Ive no interest in replicating exactly how someone else plays the game, i dont see that as being much fun! i learn something new every time you write a thread though an it always increases my enjoyment an understanding of the game.

I completely understand how frustrating it must be to write such detailed OPs and responses to questions to then get asked the same thing only a few posts later. As much as there are people like that, there are many more like myself who frequent these forums that don't actively post in discussions, but find yours in particular invaluable.

I just wanted to make sure you realised that and, again, to thank you. As I said earlier, I don't have a question to add as your OP and this thread has more than enough detail already!

[andii]

This gotta be one of the best treads for fm13 imo :-) I was wondering how I could train flair the best way ? I got some youth which lack decent flair but im unsure what would be the best way to train flair.

[Trepanated]

First off, thanks to everyone (but especially Cleon) for the great thread. This is exactly how I like to play the game but it's really helped having the ideas laid out.

I'm in January of my 3rd season with Ajax and have a rather specific question. I've been on something of a roller coaster lately with Alderweireld and Christian Eriksen. They wanted to move to a bigger club, I promised them Champions League within a season (which seemed easy as we've made the group stage every year so far). Then immediately after clinching advancement from the Champions League groups stage this year, they both handed in transfer requests. What?! We're well clear in the Eredivisie (8 points at the turn) and through to the knockout stages in Europe, the timing seems weird. But ok, I can get along without them, that was always the idea of the save. I have younger guys developing. Then before the January window has even opened, Alderweireld's agent asks for a new contract, which I give him, and he promptly withdraws his request for a transfer. Beginning of January, I get a bid for 20M for Eriksen from Barca, I offer back 30M and 20% of the next. Barca withdraws, and Eriksen is furious that he wasn't allowed to negotiate a contract. I talk to him and say the right bid hasn't come in, and suddenly we're best buds again. And then the very next thing, he withdraws his request for transfer. What, again?

Now to my question. Apparently at some point in all this I promised them I'd strengthen the squad. My assman has just reminded me of this and said they might take action if I didn't do it before the end of January. So what, exactly, would count as "strengthening the squad"? I have 16M to spend and have bought 1 youth so far. I spent a long time looking for more but I'm not satisfied with what's available and I'm happy for the team to carry on as is for now. But if it would make my best 2 players happy I don't mind spending some money, since I have plenty.

I asked both for advice on getting a player but neither had any suggestions. I would like to do the minimum to mollify them but I don't see any way of knowing what that would be. Any ideas?

[Cleon]

Cleon,

I haven't got a question to add to this topic as everything I can think of has either been covered in your op or in the 14 pages that have followed! I just wanted to say thank you for your efforts in this thread, it has been game changing for me.

When FM13 first came out, to say I was not a fan of the new training system would have been an understatement! I thought at the time it was too restrictive in terms of what you could do. Since then and playing around with it, and then discovering this thread, it has been anything but and to be honest it is where I now get the most enjoyment from FM.

Personally, i am not a big contributor to these forums as i dont think there is much value i can add. Ive been playing these games for twenty years now and every incarnation that comes out, i always have a couple of queries or need to sense check my understanding of them, and i can always get the answer from one of your threads wihout needing to ask the question too often.Ive no interest in replicating exactly how someone else plays the game, i dont see that as being much fun! i learn something new every time you write a thread though an it always increases my enjoyment an understanding of the game.

I completely understand how frustrating it must be to write such detailed OPs and responses to questions to then get asked the same thing only a few posts later. As much as there are people like that, there are many more like myself who frequent these forums that don't actively post in discussions, but find yours in particular invaluable.

I just wanted to make sure you realised that and, again, to thank you. As I said earlier, I don't have a question to add as your OP and this thread has more than enough detail already!

I really appreciate the comments and its nice to know that people do read the threads and find them helpful even if they don't post. Thank you

[Cleon]

First off, thanks to everyone (but especially Cleon) for the great thread. This is exactly how I like to play the game but it's really helped having the ideas laid out.

I'm in January of my 3rd season with Ajax and have a rather specific question. I've been on something of a roller coaster lately with Alderweireld and Christian Eriksen. They wanted to move to a bigger club, I promised them Champions League within a season (which seemed easy as we've made the group stage every year so far). Then immediately after clinching advancement from the Champions League groups stage this year, they both handed in transfer requests. What?! We're well clear in the Eredivisie (8 points at the turn) and through to the knockout stages in Europe, the timing seems weird. But ok, I can get along without them, that was always the idea of the save. I have younger guys developing. Then before the January window has even opened, Alderweireld's agent asks for a new contract, which I give him, and he promptly withdraws his request for a transfer. Beginning of January, I get a bid for 20M for Eriksen from Barca, I offer back 30M and 20% of the next. Barca withdraws, and Eriksen is furious that he wasn't allowed to negotiate a contract. I talk to him and say the right bid hasn't come in, and suddenly we're best buds again. And then the very next thing, he withdraws his request for transfer. What, again?

Now to my question. Apparently at some point in all this I promised them I'd strengthen the squad. My assman has just reminded me of this and said they might take action if I didn't do it before the end of January. So what, exactly, would count as "strengthening the squad"? I have 16M to spend and have bought 1 youth so far. I spent a long time looking for more but I'm not satisfied with what's available and I'm happy for the team to carry on as is for now. But if it would make my best 2 players happy I don't mind spending some money, since I have plenty.

I asked both for advice on getting a player but neither had any suggestions. I would like to do the minimum to mollify them but I don't see any way of knowing what that would be. Any ideas?

They'd have to be players who are capable of playing straight away to qualify as strengthening. At the end of the day your the manager so if you are happy with the squad size then ignore them.

[Trepanated]

Ah, I see. Thanks for the quick reply Cleon. Yeah, I don't see much point in buying a player good enough to qualify, even though I have plenty of money to spare. I spent a lot of time looking for players and only found the 1 that I wanted. I'd rather wait for summer and try to pick up a marquee newgen. We'll win the league and hopefully the cup, but likely get knocked out by Arsenal (I don't think I have the tactical chops to beat them yet) in the ECC. If that's not good enough for Alderweireld and Eriksen I guess I'll move on.

[andii]

Found the first downside with young players for the future. I just got sacked as manager for AC Milan ! They wanted to focus on youth and play attacking football which we did. I thought I was doing good... 5th place I serie A and I was still in champions league but lost 1-5 home to juventus and the board didn't like that. Average agee of 19 in my first team squad was maybe to young for serie A and AC Milan ?

[Guest]

Found the first downside with young players for the future. I just got sacked as manager for AC Milan ! They wanted to focus on youth and play attacking football which we did. I thought I was doing good... 5th place I serie A and I was still in champions league but lost 1-5 home to juventus and the board didn't like that. Average agee of 19 in my first team squad was maybe to young for serie A and AC Milan ?

Not really a downside though, when the board says they want you to focus on youth they are normally fine with the odd youth team player making the squad. I think you have done remarkebly well to be where you are with a average age of 19.

[Taipan]

Can someone please clarify two things

1. The only way one player can tutor another is if they have a higher "reputation"..ie: A Local reputation 32y player can't tutor a "local " reputation 17y player.

2. If the younger player is currently learning a PPM, he can't be tutored.

Correct?..Well those rules go out the window if your coach recommends the tutoring. I have a young 17y "local" rep player who is currently learning a PPM who has just accept to be tutored by a "local" older 32y player after the tutoring was recommended by a member of my coaching staff.

[Gee_Simpson]

I have a question. I know a player uses up some CA by learning a totally new position but does he also use up CA by training him up to lets say accomplished from competent or awkward etc as a current listed position or does it only apply to learning a new position altogether?

Thanks.

[Cleon]

Can someone please clarify two things

1. The only way one player can tutor another is if they have a higher "reputation"..ie: A Local reputation 32y player can't tutor a "local " reputation 17y player.

2. If the younger player is currently learning a PPM, he can't be tutored.

Correct?..Well those rules go out the window if your coach recommends the tutoring. I have a young 17y "local" rep player who is currently learning a PPM who has just accept to be tutored by a "local" older 32y player after the tutoring was recommended by a member of my coaching staff.

There are different stages of rep though. I'm not sure on the system but each rep has so many stages to the next one. So the local one will have been a higher local than the 17 year old.

As for the tutoring while PPM, its a bug and it will fail. It's been reported in the bugs forums

[Cleon]

I have a question. I know a player uses up some CA by learning a totally new position but does he also use up CA by training him up to lets say accomplished from competent or awkward etc as a current listed position or does it only apply to learning a new position altogether?

Thanks.

Yes he uses CA to get it up from competent etc because he is learning the position still so using more CA.

[Taipan]

There are different stages of rep though. I'm not sure on the system but each rep has so many stages to the next one. So the local one will have been a higher local than the 17 year old.

As for the tutoring while PPM, its a bug and it will fail. It's been reported in the bugs forums

I had no idea that there were different stages within each reputation level. <sigh>, such a complicated system for such a simple procedure.

Thanks for the clarification Cleon.

[Gee_Simpson]

Yes he uses CA to get it up from competent etc because he is learning the position still so using more CA.

Alright, cheers Would you train a player from accomplished to natural or is it not worth it?

[tomtuck01]

Alright, cheers Would you train a player from accomplished to natural or is it not worth it?

If you are planning on constantly going to play him in the position where he is currently "Accomplished", then he will probably become "Natural" eventually.

[Gee_Simpson]

If you are planning on constantly going to play him in the position where he is currently "Accomplished", then he will probably become "Natural" eventually.

Really? I didn't know that.

[squashstar666]

Can I ask a quest to the op or anyone who knows.

So as to the original post, ive set my general training to 10% and then set it to balanced.

Now im targeting individual stats for my players.

Should I be doing this or focusing on their position or both and to what intensity ?

Thanks

[Cleon]

Can I ask a quest to the op or anyone who knows.

So as to the original post, ive set my general training to 10% and then set it to balanced.

Now im targeting individual stats for my players.

Should I be doing this or focusing on their position or both and to what intensity ?

Thanks

Read the thread, its been explained loads. You need to read the thread to fully understand how training works.

[ellie05]

sweet jesus, cracking thread, but how long did that take? im thinking days

[squashstar666]

Ok so ive set all my young players individual training routines and decided for my first team I would set them to train for their actual roles rather than ind routines that way they get a broader routine if that makes sense.

On my team training ive set this to 10 % and to balanced as default focus and low as intensity.

Now I seem to be lacking in fitness might be a coincidence but my team are all only just 90 % match ready and some below .

Anyone else get this problem?