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Ajax Youth Development – When The Real World Meets Football Manager


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Probably already been covered but, how do I improve teamwork. My 4* PA 19 year old DM/CB has 9 for teamwork. Should I cut him loose?

Mental attributes improve with age as far as I remember. But how much certain ones like Teamwork improve is likely to be down to his personality as much as anything.

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Pah, that's massive it that!! £20,000 p/w for the win! :D

Hahaha - I dont mind tho, he has been excellant and will more than likely be stole off me in the next season or 2 by PSG or City who have been sniffing around for most of the Season - but if i get 30 million i think i could eaisly invest that for the future stars.

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Sorry ! My bad, this is becouse sometimes I'm wrong pictures yours and Cleon's :D

So this question I address for you :)

Well it is Dutch football, wages aren't big to begin with. :D

You've got to remember that my aim isn't to have a team full of super players bleeding the club dry. It is to develop youngsters while still bringing trophies to the club.

So for that reason I am happy to set a wage cap and sign the players to long deals and offload them as they enter the final year of their deal. Most of the players get the £20,000 p/w top wage at around 19/20 years old, therefore they are being sold at around 24/25 years old.

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Here are the Guys you all Know

Boomen - Fairly happy with his progress, he will get more games this season and make the DLP his own - How would you train him from here?

BrancovandenBoomen_OverviewAttributes_zpsd90dbaf2.png

Denswill - Very happy with him, played very well as can been seen and he has made CB his own with Toby - How would you improve him?

StefanoDenswil_OverviewAttributes_zpsf9059d72.png

Kishna - NOt as good as i hoped, but he didn't play many games, this will be a big season for him i think

RicardoKishna_OverviewAttributes_zpsf76701b2.png

Menig - Same as above, this will be a massive season i think this year, im not loaning any players in so he will def get extra games upfront, currently training him to be a DLF, what do you think?

QueencyMenig_OverviewAttributes_zpsb32bfd2b.png

Hart - Didn't play many games, i think im going to use him as my cup keeper this year, then if im winning comfortably will through him on for a few sub appearences - I think he is going to be good.

MickeyvanderHart_OverviewAttributes_zps2e028a35.png

Anderson - Do you think he has levelled off? He didn't play as much this season as last as others got in like Boomen and Sporkslede

LucasAndersen_OverviewAttributes_zps1e826292.png

Tete - Got injured this season and was loaned out last season by accident, im hoping he gets better this season, he played the last few games due to injury and was ok, nothing special

KennyTete_OverviewAttributes_zpsf68b45b3.png

Sporkslede - Improving and think he will be here for a while and still improving, his personality has not changed though after 2 mentoring sessions, this will be a problem i think

FabianSporkslede_OverviewAttributes_zpsbb9a0d3c.png

Meleg - Disaster, waste of time, ended up loaning him out, can't see him doing anything for me

DejanMeleg_OverviewAttributes_zpscfe01237.png

How would you improve these players and what positions do you think suit them best with current attributes?

I will post the new regens later or over the weekend for you to check out.

Thanks

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Denswill - Very happy with him, played very well as can been seen and he has made CB his own with Toby - How would you improve him?

StefanoDenswil_OverviewAttributes_zpsf9059d72.png

work on his composure
Hart - Didn't play many games, i think im going to use him as my cup keeper this year, then if im winning comfortably will through him on for a few sub appearences - I think he is going to be good.

MickeyvanderHart_OverviewAttributes_zps2e028a35.png

he is good enough to get regular game time in the eredivise, so give him more playing time in the league aswell
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Because he has not improved at all and in fact has lost some attributes, i was training him as a wingback and he just does not seem very good, why do you disagree?

Have you given him many games in that position? If not then he is not going to improve as much as he could in that role. What about individual attributes, have you focued on any?

To me he looks far from a disaster............very far from it.

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Anybody know of any way to search for youth coaches? They've made it utterly impossible in FM2013. I can't find a coach who will accept a youth coach position (under 18 coach, assistant or manager) who can also do a job as attacking coach (the most I can get in my current set up is three stars for that rather important position- passing, creativity...)

It's doing my head in.

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Why would you want a keeper to have a high eccentricity attribute?
most of the time I play with an attacking sweeper (if you look at required attributes for this role you will see that eccentricity is listed there to), I want him to be as involved in build up play as possible, I want him to try the spectacular etc

my keeper often face very few shoots, these are often decent chances however (when the opposing team can break out of my possession, pressing and high line/offside trap), so if he can pull of the odd bit of magic between the sticks I will be better of.....this means that I'm not really looking for a conventional keeper that can confidently block away shoots and be calm and steady in goal, I want a crazy lunatic with decent delivery since it compliments my playing style better

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Buying youth players/finding the right deal

Since there have been the odd question of what to look for when singing youth players, here goes my take on it. First of we have tendency attributes that are hard/impossible to train (like bravery, aggression, flair, rushing out, eccentricity etc) if I feel the player need any of these attributes for the role I intend him to play them in it will be high up on my list, the secound one is my scouts opinion of the players potential compared to the league, this is listed just under the star rating (marked down with a red circle on the screen below), and it often tell way more about a players potential then the somewhat inaccurate star rating system, so I will be looking for players that are listed as having the potential to become a leading Serie A players (since I'm playing Roma on the save where the screen is from). The third one is price, do not waste absurd amounts on youth players that might not make it and save your cash for players who can slot into the first team, gamble on cheep players, if the deal does not work out, you will probably still make your money back ether in transfer fees or sell on clauses. the fourth thing to consider is: dont buy more youth players then you can develop and provide tutoring for, if you try to train to many players on the same time you will just end up with a lot of half finished products that will never make the first team

whatilookfor_zpsb64317a4.png

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Anybody know of any way to search for youth coaches? They've made it utterly impossible in FM2013. I can't find a coach who will accept a youth coach position (under 18 coach, assistant or manager) who can also do a job as attacking coach (the most I can get in my current set up is three stars for that rather important position- passing, creativity...)

It's doing my head in.

i use exception filters and exclude each employable category except for coaches. Then it shows me coaches who are employed and i grab those employed as U18s..You can also set it to unemployed and rule out ppl looking for other jobs, though this leads to a higher population for you to consider
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Cleon quick question or anyone else who has experience with this but, whats the best way to improve a players teamwork ability? At the moment i'm putting all my AMCs and Wingers on inside forward training, even a striker. Is this how you would do it or is there another way? Or am I wasting my time as it improves with age and I should be focusing my time elsewhere.

You can do a squad rotation for general training on tactics that improves teamwork and/or role focused training that incorporates teamwork

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Anybody know of any way to search for youth coaches? They've made it utterly impossible in FM2013. I can't find a coach who will accept a youth coach position (under 18 coach, assistant or manager) who can also do a job as attacking coach (the most I can get in my current set up is three stars for that rather important position- passing, creativity...)

It's doing my head in.

I'm often a tad lazy with youth coaches and stick to the once I start with, and then when its possible, start appointing former players from my own team to fill those roles
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Cleon, are there any positions you find harder to train than others? I have great difficulty with strikers because I'm just promoted into the Premiership and my youths really don't cut the mustard yet. I want them to develop but I still need to win enough to stay up. To do that I need to score but my young strikers aren't up to that yet. Then again, if I don't play them they don't really develop because my training facilities are crap.

For example

Wall_zpsac7005ed.jpg

Derby_zpsce9d5e0e.jpg

This is hopefully my strike partnership of the future. Not good enough for Premiership yet but both top quality prospect. Any thoughts?

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Clean

Cleon. Cleon.

No wonder he can't be arsed with the forums at times when people can't even read and then type his name properly. :D

On another point Argente, I'd be happy to give both strikers some game time in the forthcoming season. That is after all how they best develop.

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I can't explain why my 18 year old after a period of green arrows now have down arrows without being injured. He has played 19 games this season with 7/8 more games to go in the season. Could it just be burnout? His fitness is fully fit though

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Cleon, are there any positions you find harder to train than others? I have great difficulty with strikers because I'm just promoted into the Premiership and my youths really don't cut the mustard yet. I want them to develop but I still need to win enough to stay up. To do that I need to score but my young strikers aren't up to that yet. Then again, if I don't play them they don't really develop because my training facilities are crap.

For example

Wall_zpsac7005ed.jpg

Derby_zpsce9d5e0e.jpg

This is hopefully my strike partnership of the future. Not good enough for Premiership yet but both top quality prospect. Any thoughts?

I still give my youths game time regardless of is they are currently good enough or not. I do this across all my saves even the LLM ones.

What I do is play them in cup games, bring them on as subs in almost every game with 20-30 mins left and start them the odd time.

That is all I do.

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I can't explain why my 18 year old after a period of green arrows now have down arrows without being injured. He has played 19 games this season with 7/8 more games to go in the season. Could it just be burnout? His fitness is fully fit though

Are they actually downward arrows though or just red/orange diagonal arrows? There is a big difference.

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It's orange diagonal arrows pointing downwards

So there not downward arrows then meaning he hasn't lost any attribute. The orange arrows are just showing that the attribute behind the scenes as decreased every so slightly. Behind the scenes the attributes are made up of .00000 etc and its this you are seeing. There could be a number of reasons as to why though. It could just be a bad month? He might be been retrained? He might have had a knock in a game without picking up an actual injury. Morale could be low, condition could be low, he could be jaded. Or he could have reached his CA and the attributes are reflecting this.

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I still give my youths game time regardless of is they are currently good enough or not. I do this across all my saves even the LLM ones.

What I do is play them in cup games, bring them on as subs in almost every game with 20-30 mins left and start them the odd time.

That is all I do.

I used Derby sparingly to start with, I'd bought him from Ballymena for 55k early season. Wall came through my Academy in March. By March I was safe from relegation which was my objective so I just played them both from the start for my last 7 games. Both had good development. Funnily enough, Derby is used as my support striker and scored 5 times, Wall is my poacher and didn't score any but had 3 assists and can whip in a mean cross despite his poor attributes in that area. I'm looking forward to next season now...

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So there not downward arrows then meaning he hasn't lost any attribute. The orange arrows are just showing that the attribute behind the scenes as decreased every so slightly. Behind the scenes the attributes are made up of .00000 etc and its this you are seeing. There could be a number of reasons as to why though. It could just be a bad month? He might be been retrained? He might have had a knock in a game without picking up an actual injury. Morale could be low, condition could be low, he could be jaded. Or he could have reached his CA and the attributes are reflecting this.

Actually he did lose attributes, I notice him losing one point in his acceleration although this was improved by individual training so he was essentially back to his starting point.

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Actually he did lose attributes, I notice him losing one point in his acceleration although this was improved by individual training so he was essentially back to his starting point.

Then it would have been a downward red arrow and not a orange diagnal arrow if he actually lost 1 off his visible attribute :)

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Then it would have been a downward red arrow and not a orange diagnal arrow if he actually lost 1 off his visible attribute :)

Im positive it was an orange diagonal arrow though, in any case what could I have done wrong? As far as Im aware, morale and fitness isnt an issue.

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Cleon, are there any positions you find harder to train than others? I have great difficulty with strikers because I'm just promoted into the Premiership and my youths really don't cut the mustard yet. I want them to develop but I still need to win enough to stay up. To do that I need to score but my young strikers aren't up to that yet. Then again, if I don't play them they don't really develop because my training facilities are crap.

For example

Wall_zpsac7005ed.jpg

Derby_zpsce9d5e0e.jpg

This is hopefully my strike partnership of the future. Not good enough for Premiership yet but both top quality prospect. Any thoughts?

There is something I absolutely do, there have been plenty of lessons for me in my 10 year journey to the premiership, and the most important lesson is how many games a player needs. If you plan on developing your own talent, between 15-16 you train them in the U-18s, by the time they are 17 start picking the crop and stick them into the reserves team. There may be one or two who could even play 10-20 mins in the main team esp for cup games. Then when they are 18 pick the best and start giving them runs in the main team. FOr me they need to play a minimum of 15 games, play them in home games, against weaker competition, bring them on for 20 mins then gauge how they do. I had a striker who couldn't find the back of the net for quite a few games..and now he's banging them in. You really need to monitor them.

I actually have a spreadsheet that breaks down how many games each player has played and I check it in Nov, Dec. Then I decide who needs more games. Now here's the clincher. As i monitor their progress I keep a look at their overall performance in training, any one who has an orange arrow and hasn't been injured gets a "shape up" chat from me. When they do well in a match and have an 8 they get a calm ..you did well pat on the back. I can't complain on how my squad is developing, I just wish I had discovered 'the system" earlier.

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Yeah I was kind of stuck inbetween places where the players that had got me to the Premiership were all somewhere around good League 1 players or maybe even decent Championship ones. I've pumped as much money as I could talk the board into giving me into Junior coaching and was getting some promising youths coming through. I was at a stage where there wasn't a huge gap in quality between what I had and what was coming through but the coming through had potential so I just played the Youths and figured that they could have enough to keep me up. They did. Finished 14th in my first season but that was mainly because I had 6 or 7 players aged 16 to 18 each match. Some of them improved a ridiculous amount. I have a DC that is now 'the next Phil Jones' (I hope that doesn't mean he's always injured), I have a pair of DMs that can interchange, one an enforcer and the other more a playmaker. The playmaker one averaged around 7.5 over 20 odd games last season and he's only just turned 18.

Those kind of players I find ok to develop because I can kind of hide them to an extent. I play with 3 DCs so I used the youth as a non marking one (against 2 strikers he played in the middle, against one striker he played DCR). The DM is an Anchor man so he just has to get in the way and he's of some service to me.

That leads me back to the problem of the strikers. If they aren't scoring goals then I'm not winning games. I have better players than them who can score so I was trying to pair a 'scorer' with a youth and hope they aren't a liability. It's sort of working, for one of them at least. Derby plays as a DLF and he's progressing ok (3 full international caps for Northern Ireland aged 16). Wall has scored once and is doing better this season but despite being 'Fairly Professional' character doesn't really seem to be improving a whole load. I may send him on loan to get game time (and goals) in a lower division and see how he develops there.

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I posted this in another thread but it didn't get any replies, does anybody know the answer to this:

I seem to remember someone mentioning in another thread that international team games (both senior and U19,U21 etc) also count as first team experience. Does anybody know if this is correct? Because my youth players play a ton of international U21 games, if those count towards the required 25 first team games per season that would make things a lot easier.
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Well it is Dutch football, wages aren't big to begin with. :D

You've got to remember that my aim isn't to have a team full of super players bleeding the club dry. It is to develop youngsters while still bringing trophies to the club.

So for that reason I am happy to set a wage cap and sign the players to long deals and offload them as they enter the final year of their deal. Most of the players get the £20,000 p/w top wage at around 19/20 years old, therefore they are being sold at around 24/25 years old.

I've wage problem too. As Southampton I've to pay £40,000 p/w+clauses for Luke Shaw after he demand a 56,000 contract. and some of my star players earn more than that such as Adryan who earn 60,000p/w and Gaston Ramirez 65,000p/w (Club's top earner) and now some regen want contract that have something like 15,000-20,000 after 10 league games. It's seems like it's a lot harder to control wage budget in EPL. Or I might did something wrong.

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I posted this in another thread but it didn't get any replies, does anybody know the answer to this:

I asked Cleon this as I am Club and country manager, I'm not sure for U21 games but first team internationals are equivalent to first team club if not even more.

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I asked Cleon this as I am Club and country manager, I'm not sure for U21 games but first team internationals are equivalent to first team club if not even more.

You can't get anymore experience than competitive first team games. So whether its country or club makes no difference its the same. As for U21 games etc they are classed in the same vein as friendlies in terms of experience.

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Hey guys. Absolutely magical discussion. I tried to get through every page but my eyes started to go funny after the first hour :p

What is everyone's thoughts on ages determining which stats to concentrate on? Looking at this thread, it looks like my old thoughts are totally wrong. When looking at young players lacking in attributes, I'd generally look at improving physical only till they are a little older (because it's harder to increase these later on, I HOPE that's right anyway), then start to mess around with increasing Technical and Mental stats.

IE looking at the very first (amazing) posts from Cleon, I see that some very young players are being molded with straight away by getting a rotation of (just an example) Quickness, Marking, Positioning etc, even though all these stats are roughly the same. Wouldn't it be more constructive to concentrate on Quickness as early as possible and move on to other stats later? Or am I totally missing something?

And on the subject, when do you find your players STOP improving on certain attributes? Do you find it hard to raise any physical stats through training once the player has reached 22 etc?

Cheers, Xeno! (First post in a loooong time)

Also do you focus on tutoring/giving individual training before you bother with PPMs? Or all at the same time?

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Firstly I'd like to say wow, this has been a real eye opener in how much scope you can get in player development and secondly thanks to everyone who's contributed and made this thread my favourite on the forums this year!

How is everyone dealing with injuries getting in the way of rotating individual attribute training? Emre Can has just picked up a 3 month injury playing a match a day after I'd decided his training regime for the season and coincidentally the exact timeframe he's training this specific attribute. Now there are two routes I could take here; keep to the original plan and swap focus accordingly, potentially not developing a certain attribute as much as it could of in the long run, or compress his schedule so he's working on everything planned but for a lot less time.

Luckily for young Emre he's still got time on his side but I can see this becoming a concern later on in his develpoment. I was just interested to see if people are tackling the inevitable injurys that come with proffessional football in any unique way?

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Hey guys. Absolutely magical discussion. I tried to get through every page but my eyes started to go funny after the first hour :p

What is everyone's thoughts on ages determining which stats to concentrate on? Looking at this thread, it looks like my old thoughts are totally wrong. When looking at young players lacking in attributes, I'd generally look at improving physical only till they are a little older (because it's hardly to increase these later on, I HOPE that's right anyway), then start to mess around with increasing Technical and Mental stats.

IE looking at the very first (amazing) posts from Cleon, I see that some very young players are being molded with straight away by getting a rotation of (just an example) Quickness, Marking, Positioning etc, even though all these stats are roughly the same. Wouldn't it be more constructive to concentrate on Quickness as early as possible and move on to other stats later? Or am I totally missing something?

And on the subject, when do you find your players STOP improving on certain attributes? Do you find it hard to raise any physical stats through training once the player has reached 22 etc?

Cheers, Xeno! (First post in a loooong time)

Why would I focus on quickness as early as possible? I'd rather concentrate on the attributes he needs for the position he'll play. Quickness is one of the most overrated attributes on the game, people over value it. Especially in FM13 it is nowhere near as vital as it used to be on previous versions. At the end of the day quickness won't make him good at the role he does, that would be the attributes he needs for the role. Hence why I focus on them as early as possible, its just logical and common sense imo. The sooner he is better suited to the role he'll be playing the better it is for the team and tactics you use and means he can actually do the job you need him to do :)

I guess if you value quickness highly though and it is vital for how you play then you could work on that earlier. It just doesn't fit in with how I play and I don't value it that high to change how I mould my players. I'd rather them be excellent in the right attributes for the right role :)

Each to their own though, but my ways work best for me as you'll see in all the examples I've posted in this thread :)

Attributes will stop improving once the player reaches his PA really. On FM it is far to easy to max out CA though and most of my 15-16 years old seem to reach full potential by 21 it seems.

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Any ideas on any updates Cleon?

I'm honestly unsure at the minute because of something else I am currently working on. That seems to be taking up all of my time due to it been so big and ambitious :(

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Firstly I'd like to say wow, this has been a real eye opener in how much scope you can get in player development and secondly thanks to everyone who's contributed and made this thread my favourite on the forums this year!

How is everyone dealing with injuries getting in the way of rotating individual attribute training? Emre Can has just picked up a 3 month injury playing a match a day after I'd decided his training regime for the season and coincidentally the exact timeframe he's training this specific attribute. Now there are two routes I could take here; keep to the original plan and swap focus accordingly, potentially not developing a certain attribute as much as it could of in the long run, or compress his schedule so he's working on everything planned but for a lot less time.

Luckily for young Emre he's still got time on his side but I can see this becoming a concern later on in his develpoment. I was just interested to see if people are tackling the inevitable injurys that come with proffessional football in any unique way?

I tend to stick to my original plan unless a player is injured for longer than 4 months then I might reconsider his development once he recovers and I can see what attributes might have dropped because of the long term injury. Then I'd decide what I needed to focus on again and go from there :)

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Thanks for the reply!

Yea ok maybe I shouldn't have used Quickness as an example. I didn't mean to put an emphasis on quickness, more so the early development of physical attributes over others. For example, if we have a young 17yo DC with both 12 for Positioning and Jumping, wouldn't it make sense to raise their Jumping first while they're young, and Positioning in latter years? Or doesn't age effect which attributes increase at which rates anywhere near as much as I thought?

Also do you focus on tutoring/giving individual training before you bother with PPMs so they don't deter from their training? Or all at the same time?

Thanks again!!

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Thanks for the reply!

Yea ok maybe I shouldn't have used Quickness as an example. I didn't mean to put an emphasis on quickness, more so the early development of physical attributes over others. For example, if we have a young 17yo DC with both 12 for Positioning and Jumping, wouldn't it make sense to raise their Jumping first while they're young, and Positioning in latter years? Or doesn't age effect which attributes increase at which rates anywhere near as much as I thought?

Also do you focus on tutoring/giving individual training before you bother with PPMs so they don't deter from their training? Or all at the same time?

Thanks again!!

I just focus on the attributes the player needs for his position regardless of how old they might be. I'll just focus on his weaker attributes first to get them up to scratch. The way I see it is, the quicker you focus on his weaker attributes the longer you have to work on them and more chance of making them higher.

I do this for everything, I just base it on logic and nothing else :)

I have covered the tutoring question quite a few times throughout the thread. You can't teach PPM's while a player is been tutored. So I either teach them between tutoring sessions or once a player has the required personality :)

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Cleon - I'm looking forward to your scouting write up.

I'm trying to build a network up in my current save. I'm playing as Moura, a lower league team from Portugal who I've just got into the top flight.

Money is rather short currently – so this is very much a work in progress. However, I’m hoping I can find some gems about, get them quick and build them up using some of the techniques mentioned in this thread. Until I make some money via other means, I have to face the prospect that buying cheap and selling on may be my main mean of survival and growth for the immediate future.

In the past I’ve manually checked out major leagues and their youth intakes to find what I want. Possibly considered cheating and in many ways it ruined the idea of having scouts. So in this save, I’ve tried to base signings on the players found by my staff – or by the effect of having them.

I’ve found many interesting threads on scouting and it’s intriguing to see how people approach what would initially seem as a basic task in different ways. Also how they set up the actual screens, customising views to give key data from player searches (I think I took some hints from Dafauge and amended it a little giving a much clearer view of what I wanted to see).

I confess to still be on FM12, so can’t comment on how the new staff roles could be used, but this is what I currently do:

I started by building a simple filter that looked at U18 players and used some key abilities I wanted, i.e. pace, stamina, strength, composure etc. I would then add all players to the scout pool and when the reports came back, un-shortlist anyone who had less than 4 stars.

With the idea that increasing your scouting knowledge increased the numbers of players in the player search screen – I started to hire more scouts and took a more considered approach. I tried to find scouts with good JPP (not so worried about current ability so much as if they had potential that was the main thing – and it keeps the cost down!) and determination. I also tried to pick those that had the biggest knowledge base – but different from each other.

I would set each scout to look at 18 and under players with potential of 4 star – then assign them to a region that their knowledge base DIDN’T cover (which I hope in theory will mean I should get more player returns in the player search box) and put them on non-roaming. I’m not sure on the latter part, but I have it in my mind that I read once that if they roamed, they would focus on what they considered to be key countries. I figure by switching this off and just re-running the search when complete, I’ll ensure better coverage. Happy to be told I’m wrong here!

This in theory gives me the biggest possible return on the player search screen. I then built position specific filters to ensure a minimum level of ability in that role’s key areas. There are a number of abilities included, but with relatively low numbers, i.e. ‘7’ as the lowest rating for composure (I can build this up as my clubs reputation grows and better players are needed). I also have a safety valve filter that looks at all players 18 and under that are valued at more than £500k. I then add all players that show up to the scouting pool to give individual reports. So I’m hoping that the players they find on their searches along with those that appear on the player search mean I’m getting the best return I can.

I’m sure some slip through the net, I know they did on earlier versions which I why I started to read squad lists and youth intakes screens! But I’ll be interested to see how this works out. The next stage is to be able to afford to buy any of them....

Interested to see what others do – will try and use what Falahk suggested earlier too.

Paul

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What's better in terms of progress and game experience - one full 90-minutes match, or only one half but in two matches? Is it 10 full matches or 20, but played only for 45 mins? I'm wondering what's more beneficial for player development if the minutes he gets remain the same? Or is there no real difference?

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When it comes to tutoring is it beneficial for the player to have more than one tutor at the the same time?

I recently noticed i could use two tutors, one I like his personality to mentor, the other has great PPMs to pass on, I chose the same player for them to teach.

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