Player Interaction... Just AWFUL

[Chris Ritchie]

Argh, there isn't a lot of clarity, or much choice, in what I can 'private chat' the players with. I can't tell them well done on training well..

And talk about earning trust, I've got a player that has me favoured personal but has been on transfer list cause of request; didn't give a reason, and I have no way of using private chat to convince him to stay. They're all 'threats'.

I'd log both of those in the bugs forum. They're definitely areas for improvement and you have very specific ideas that you'd like implemented.

[Robioto]

Don't interact with players unless you have to. Simple.

[JimmyWangYang]

Earning the trust of players is pivotal I've got to say, as is biding your time: don't expect miracles within the first few weeks at a club. I mean, to put it in a different context, imagine if you had a new boss at work who suddenly came in with a load of personal suggestions, i.e teaming up with others, changing the way you do things: how would you react? The majority would not be overly positive I reckon.

That's why you have to listen to the coaches, who have a better 'club knowledge' than the newly appointed manager. Listen carefully to each suggestion in backroom advice, and if you have another coach who strongly agrees with it, then it might be time to consider risk/reward and make a decision. This is especially useful when you want to decide who to tutor, as the coaches will also highlight how to approach the player, as this is often where us humans get it wrong.

[Kriss]

I'd go along with what seems to be the majority here, it's still pretty basic and needs many, many more conversational options and improvement of the logic that strings it together.

[The_Gent]

Don't interact with players unless you have to. Simple.

I've resorted to not playing the game unless I have to. Much simpler

[dalglish1975]

Which 18 year-old? Which striker? What's the striker's squad status? What are their personalities? Which conversation option did you use? What did you say when he refused?

It's not just one instance of it. Every time this has happened, it's been a reserve or under 19 player acting like a prima donna refusing to be mentored by a first team player. Besides, some of the are coming as suggestions from my backroom team who are also supposed to know the players.

There's so many things wrong with this. The manager is the boss. Most young players would love the chance to work closely with a member of the first team squad. And if any of them did behave like this, they'd probably be out the door in the morning.

I think the interaction thing has great potential, but until there's a massive range of speech selections or a more intelligent ai, it's a bit flawed. And that just becomes frustrating. I remember there used to be a feeling among the devs (and I'm going back a bit here) that they wouldn't implement some stuff because they thought it would just be boring and inane. Obviously we're now going down the road of ultra-realism, but I'm not sure if all of it is really adding to the feeling of the game for me. Is it any more satisfying winning trophies and big games in this version than the first Amiga ones because I'm doing much more work behind the scenes? I don't think so. But maybe I'm just getting old! Sorry, gone off topic there...

[Äktsjon Männ]

Has anyone had a positive result from this feature?

It looks like a minefield with no incentive to cross it.

This is what's most wrong about all this new 'improved' interaction. I can accept that it's rather basic and the variety of options is a bit limited. I understand that there's going to be bugs since it's the first time it's in. But why is the whole interaction model in the game seemingly just for punishing the player? Why does the slightest hint of disagreement always have to lead to player unhappiness or even a morale drop? Why is it unthinkable for two people to just accept that they disagree on something and get on with their jobs? Right now this feature feels much more like a multiple choice math test than a natural conversation.

[Calif_Ramette]

This is one of the main things that has irked me to no end about FM 11. While in theory this is a good idea for the game, it has been poorly thought out and implemented and is basically more of a pain then it should be. I wish SI had really worked with this and released it when it wasn't so shall we say basic.

[Nicoacademia]

it's better than FM10 in not having the conversation feature. i like how i can keep scolding players who are not training well or under performing.

some players of course get ****ed off easily but i never thought about the feature, i just thought so that is what makes the player ****ed off. so now he's ****ed off too bad, i drop him or i try to offer him a contract or etc.

lots of whiners on the forum. "the stock market is broke, go whine at the government" generation.

[AndyRich]

This is a shame, the player interaction could have been really good if every player was made out to be a selfish, sensitive ****.

[Calif_Ramette]

it's better than FM10 in not having the conversation feature. i like how i can keep scolding players who are not training well or under performing.

some players of course get ****ed off easily but i never thought about the feature, i just thought so that is what makes the player ****ed off. so now he's ****ed off too bad, i drop him or i try to offer him a contract or etc.

lots of whiners on the forum. "the stock market is broke, go whine at the government" generation.

Or perhaps not everyone is in love with this feature that needs to be tweaked. While good in concept this feature is not even close to being polished. People are not whining, they are making legitimate points about a feature that takes away from the game. So tired of people who disagree with the game being called whiners and such, they have every right to point out things that they don't like. With this feature it is well known many don't like it.

[Ty]

I love the player interaction, it is awesome.

Utaka was unhappy and wanted to leave, after a move to a bigger club.

I told him we were a growing club, and that we want him to be part of it.

He then said, he is happy to stay and hopes I keep my promise. Before asking if I wanted anything else.

Well, while your at it...

I told him if he would consider a reducing his wages as the club is financially not great, and he agreed to it.

He is now happy to stay, still the Championship top scorer and has gone from £60k a week to £25k a week. Love it.

Took this from my Portsmouth thread in the GPTG.

I think the interaction is a quality feature, I feel a lot of people are just being a little too harsh due to a lot of people not liking 'change'.

[x42bn6]

Took this from my Portsmouth thread in the GPTG.

I think the interaction is a quality feature, I feel a lot of people are just being a little too harsh due to a lot of people not liking 'change'.

Do you not think the OP's experience is unreasonable?

And a lot of people appear to have experienced similar things - it looks like yours is a one-off.

[Lindhoffen]

I think the player interaction is hit and miss and it's like playing russian roulette with too many bullets sometimes. Definitely needs heavy work but it's not bad as it is.

[Krald]

Is strange that every single conversation I've had bar one has been good, even a player felt I had a good relationship with him when I told him I was transfer listing him as he's surplus to requirements.

[Ranbir]

It is the incredible over-reaction from players. Taking a look around I see so many players transfer listed by request. Of course, do AI managers use this feature or is it human only that have to suffer?

[MoMan10]

if they don't sort this out the game will descend into a pile of ****

How was this productive?

[DeadZone]

I feel atm it's completely random

If you save, have a conversation, then reload and have the exact conversation again, there is a chance the outcome will be completely different (at least in my experience)

This simply shouldn't happen, while matches should be different on each try due to random outcomes and events, the above scenario should provide the exact same result each and everytime without fail, as none of the deciding factors have chanced at all

At the moment, I suppose you could save and reload until you get the response you want... which isn't a good thing

[Lilywhites11]

Here's the gist of my most recent conversation (fined johnny evans after getting a red, and now he's unhappy):

"I feel i've been treated unfairly"

"I'm sorry you feel that way but I'm the manager and I'll make the decisions"

"(evans whines and whinges)"

"If you don't drop the issue I'll have to put you up for transfer"

"I don't want to leave so i'll drop the issue. I should leave before I say something I regret"

There, an example of a player chat that actually accomplished something.

*continue*

Inbox: 1- "Evans requests transfer"

flippin heck.

So not only are player responses random, but they don't even correspond with the rest of the game. back to the drawing board for SI

[Deejaydoubleyou]

Definitely need work on the interaction side of the game. We need more variation on responses. 5 responses is very limited and boring, especially when you have to have the same conversation with 6 or 7 players. Or even when doing media conferences, getting asked the same questions and giving the same response is monotonous. How about hiring a script editor (if they haven't already) and working on 10-15 responses and maybe a few more questions. And also how about not laying them out in descending order? If you always have positive answers at the top working down to negative I don't always even read the answers, I just think I need to answer positive so pick one of the top 2 answers... pathetic. I know some people will say, "but it's realistic. Managers do get asked the same questions over and over again" But this is a game! It's not real. And if someone dares to say it's supposed to be as close to real as possible then I defy you to tell me how a Sunday league footballer can take over Man Utd?

[underwater sunlight]

there does seem to be quite a few options missing with a lot of scenarios having no middle ground apart from talking about it later.

bear in mind that when one coach thinks player A should tutor player B that one of your other coaches may disagree with that opinion. it shows the coaches individuality and differences of opinion. also look at the player reports as it will give an (albeit basic) idea of a players personality.

i've had lots of positive as well as negative reactions from interactions, and although it does help when you are more established, some players are just trouble

[Shake Appeal]

It's not just one instance of it. Every time this has happened, it's been a reserve or under 19 player acting like a prima donna refusing to be mentored by a first team player. Besides, some of the are coming as suggestions from my backroom team who are also supposed to know the players.

There's so many things wrong with this. The manager is the boss. Most young players would love the chance to work closely with a member of the first team squad. And if any of them did behave like this, they'd probably be out the door in the morning.

I think the interaction thing has great potential, but until there's a massive range of speech selections or a more intelligent ai, it's a bit flawed. And that just becomes frustrating. I remember there used to be a feeling among the devs (and I'm going back a bit here) that they wouldn't implement some stuff because they thought it would just be boring and inane. Obviously we're now going down the road of ultra-realism, but I'm not sure if all of it is really adding to the feeling of the game for me. Is it any more satisfying winning trophies and big games in this version than the first Amiga ones because I'm doing much more work behind the scenes? I don't think so. But maybe I'm just getting old! Sorry, gone off topic there...

Not saying there aren't flaws with it, but I welcome the introduction of the conversation system, and I can see it becoming better down the line. It makes squad management feel much more personal and involved even using the very limited and shallow interface it has now, with very bad writing (dear SI, please hire a proper editor, and while I have you here 'disinterested' doesn't mean 'not interested', so every time I see it in the motivation panel it irks me). In the couple of seasons or so of playing time I've built up between the demo and the full game, when the system has worked it's made the game feel more satisfying, yes. Having my young Argentinian defender go from questioning my management in private because we're struggling in the league to listing me as one of his Favoured Personnel as we clamber back up the table a few months later felt good. It made the player a little more than the sum of his numbers.

And at the start of the current season I just set up six straight tutor relationships that went well, so I'm not sure why people are struggling; I suspect it's because they're picking bad relationships or bad conversation options, or both. Maybe my increased reputation since I started helps, but only one of the kids needed convincing of his tutor, and he came around in the end. In my experience, when people do complain about my asking for a tutor relationship, it's only a temporary hit to morale at worst. Most negative responses go away in time, provided you are winning games. So far I haven't had to throw cash at anyone to please them, and only once was I forced to ship someone out of the club after he went on a six-month sulk because I fined him (for getting sent off in a crucial league game for repeated fouling after I had set his tackles to easy). And when he flopped at his new club and his value dropped a couple million below what I sold him for, it felt good. I didn't like him. What's more, I know my players didn't like him, because several of them had come to me complaining about not being able to get along with him (presumably his bad attitude and complacency in matches was at odds with their determined, professional approach), and I was able to reassure them that, yes, he would be sold "sooner rather than later". And I kept my promise. And the whole thing told a story that made my experience of Football Manager a little deeper and a little richer.

[Fraggle497]

From what I've played of it, its like any new feature - it will take time and effort to understand it and get used to it.

I imagine someone will (sooner or later) write a guide about this new feature after extensive testing/trial and error and what not.

[Shake Appeal]

I can't tell them well done on training well..

You can, but the option hardly ever seems to show up. I couldn't tell you if that's by design or not, though. It doesn't really matter, however, because complaining about their training level is one of the easiest morale boosters with a professional/determined squad. About once a fortnight I go into the training screen, look for players with predominantly orange arrows, and if I find any I criticize their effort in training (with the 'lighter' option that threatens their first-team football rather than their place at the club). They invariably say they'll try to do better, and I get a morale boost and they say they feel they have a good relationship with me. I think I get a negative response about one in twenty times, and I can usually bring them around when that happens. I also do this with the names that show up as having not impressed in the monthly training report.

[rich_m]

Is there any comeback from clicking the "Private chat" button, but immediately clicking the back arrow to get out of it? Just pressed it by mistake and don't want the player to think that I'm ignoring him and get annoyed!

I'm assuming that nothing will happen in terms of morale etc until you click a question/point?

[cruyff14]

I have noticed the players get unhappy at silly things like the media asked me if my player was on the form of his life and I used the reply he's playing well but i think there is more to come and my player got annoyed. I'm sorry but I wasn't slating my player I was stating I think he can get even better which in the real world a player would think 'yeah you're right i do think I can get to another level'

[rich10]

I have had the opposite experience.

My coaches advised me to drop Pepe Reina as his form was poor, so i have a chat with him (as you do) and say as much

me: "sort your form out lad"

him: "erm, i didn't think my form what that bad boss"

me: "oh, erm...(mental note; sack Sammy Lee)...ok, i hope this hasn't offended you and we can forget it?"

him: "yeah sure, whatever, let's pretend it never happened"

me: "phew! *imagining Itjande in nets for the visit of Madrid*"

Now i've definitely used some degree of creative licence there, but that's more or less how it played out. he even had a personal relationship status with me as: 'feels he get's along with you'

I'll see if i can dig out the screenshot of it when i get home.

I'm yet to have a player get all arsey with me for no apparent reason (not saying it won't happen).

[TSH]

Has SI even acknowledged this problem?

Because reviews certainly didn't seem to mind since such a major issue is not working.

Will there be any effort to fix the system somewhat in the upcoming patch?

[Slawbawn]

In all fairness to SI, this feature is new so it's not going to be perfected straight away. I'd imagine this is the kind of things they'll be looking to improve in future updates and versions.

[TSH]

"Not perfect" and "mostly illogical" are not the same things.

[Shake Appeal]

I have noticed the players get unhappy at silly things like the media asked me if my player was on the form of his life and I used the reply he's playing well but i think there is more to come and my player got annoyed. I'm sorry but I wasn't slating my player I was stating I think he can get even better which in the real world a player would think 'yeah you're right i do think I can get to another level'

Some players would, some players wouldn't. Your player has his own ambitions and sense of where he's at. What's his personality?

[No i\'m not moaning! Its s]

I find it remarkable that SI have introduced this before improving other areas such as press conferences/team talks first.

Now there are 3 areas which are terrible and require massive improvement.....

Also if they haven't improved team talks in well over 5 years, I can't see this improving any time soon, press conferences have gone exactly nowhere in 3 years too. Perhaps they should sort the existing problems before adding new content which is below par.