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FM18 - The community formation experiment

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36 minutes ago, craiigman said:

Thanks haha, any chance you have a screen shot of the default 52210? I’m at work

uSMqMgH.png

 

Not too bad, I guess. Strikerless tactics are OP in this game. Shadow Striker as the 9.5, maybe?

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10 minutes ago, Jean0987654321 said:

uSMqMgH.png

 

Not too bad, I guess. Strikerless tactics are OP in this game. Shadow Striker as the 9.5, maybe?

That’s better than I thought, I thought it was 2 CM’s not wingers. Striker less can be OP, but usually with 2/3 in the AM spot. But looks like it can be do-able, maybe.

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32 minutes ago, craiigman said:

@Jambo98 are there any rules when setting up game world like leagues loaded, attribte masking, adding key staff/players to playable teams etc?

Nah go with what you want for those settings.  

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8 hours ago, Jambo98 said:

Eek, so a brazilian box for me. Long time since i tried anything of that ilk! Have a few thoughts in my head, almost certainly once which will fail miserably. Not sure the squad is best suited to it either. Bit lacking in CMs and winger heavy. Will start to look properly in the morning and sketch out some ideas 

And only now, do i realise i was looking at the wrong formation :D The box went to someone else, i get the 4222 with 2 DMs and ML / MR. 

Less exciting! But will see what i can do :) 

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I managed to get my save booted up and a quick over view of the squad. It’s safe to say this squad is not setup for a 52210.

I’ll make my starter post later, but this is certainly a challenge!

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Sounds rather interesting - I'm in!

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53 minutes ago, Piaz88 said:

so if im going to use an 343 does this mean i have to use 3 striker or can it be 1 striker and aml/amr?

All formations are the defaults in FM. So selecting the 343 shows that you must use a flat back three, a flat midfield four, and three strikers, which is a bit of a stretch at Koln - you have four decent-to-good strikers, but only a couple of mediocre backups. A wise use of your loan-signing, perhaps? But the formation should do well - 3-striker formations are highly effective in this year's ME.

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Mixed fortunes in my save. Tactic looks OK in preseason - plays pretty much like a 442 - but I've already lost Sorensen (one of the best defenders) for at least two months with a broken foot.

Anyone know when the likes of Mere and Co get back from the beach? I've never managed in Germany so don't understand this business with staggered holidays.

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vor 14 Minuten schrieb warlock:

All formations are the defaults in FM. So selecting the 343 shows that you must use a flat back three, a flat midfield four, and three strikers, which is a bit of a stretch at Koln - you have four decent-to-good strikers, but only a couple of mediocre backups. A wise use of your loan-signing, perhaps? But the formation should do well - 3-striker formations are highly effective in this year's ME.

but i can change roles and instructions can i?

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1 minute ago, Piaz88 said:

but i can change roles and instructions can i?

Absolutely! That's where your managerial genius shines through :cool:.

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb warlock:

Absolutely! That's where your managerial genius shines through :cool:.

alright thanks.

will post results and formation after the first season. 

had a good start so far, just conceding to much. 

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Squad is actually very versatile, which is really helpful. Struggling with this tiny budget though, need at at least a CB, ideally a central mid, and a good shadow striker.

That new Colombian lad looks good, but not in my system. Work to be done.

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21 hours ago, Jambo98 said:

@jc577- 5122 DM Narrow

6f979070dfbabbf6cbf8da9143b42e6c.gif

 

 

Never played with 3 at the back before, yet alone 5. Excited to try it out, thinking the full-backs need to be aggressive as they're the only source of width. Definitely need a back up CB, someone to fill the 'quarterback role' in DM, and possibly a box-to-box type midfielder as the current CM's are really lacking in pace. Looking forward to this.

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5-2-2-1-0

The setup:

3YGLrQa.png pOadXtG.png

 

The manager:

PY5cT7C.png

 

The system(s)

yiqqCLk.png vDbfm5q.png atrIx7o.png

They are all very similar, to a degree. TI's the same for each, that's my style of play. A few PI's on them to try and make roles similar to those I cannot use.

No signings as of yet. Not played first friendly yet, but that's the gist of it.

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So the save is all booted up and had a good gander at the squad. Defo needs some more central midfielders for this 4312 formation.

Already taken the ruthless aproach and listed all the wingers :lol:

Heres the 3 original starting variants

2qtlb3l.png

Changed to a lower tempo play

2jct3wx.png

Now changed to direct passing approach an removed lower tempo

kcjn60.png

Changed the DLP to a CMD

 

Aiming to get a couple of hardworking industrial midfielders in to bolster the depth.

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ALl in here man, will get to allocating out the next lot hopefully tonight

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Still not sure what to make of my 442 sweeper formation. On the one hand, we cruised through pre-season winning all games except a slip-up away to Albacete. Won the opening cup game, and the first league game. Then we lost the next two league games, before spanking Napoli 3-1 in the opening Europa League match (after Sarri told the media he was glad to be starting with an easy match!) So results have been, to say the least, mixed.

But the formation!?! It's a nonsense. I can see where a sweeper might work behind two centre backs, but with FM's default formation, the sweeper sits directly behind a lone CB with the result that they're on top of each other for the whole game. They take up the same positions, close down the same opponents, chase the same balls. From the game against Napoli, here's our average position with the ball:

kKM41fv.png

And average position without the ball:

e9vo1Jr.png

It's as if you're playing with ten men and the strength of the 442 - defending in two banks of four - is nullified because your back four becomes, at best, a back three-and-a-half. I can't believe anyone ever chose to play like this, and I'm completely baffled why SI decided to put it in the game. To make matters worse, in Horn we have one of the best young sweeper-keepers in the game - but if you play him in that role he's duplicating a lot of what the sweeper is trying to do. (From what I've read, the SK developed when managers did away with sweepers but needed someone to do a similar job.) 

On the upside, I'm happy enough with the contribution from the rest of the team. The wingers have played well, although I'd be happy if some of them could play 'opposite foot' and give us something different. Up front, Cordoba and Pizzaro have been great (although, what a weird career Pizzaro has had - check his history!). It's a fun challenge, and I can see a future save where I'd try a sweeper, but definitely behind two CBs not one.

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2 hours ago, warlock said:

Still not sure what to make of my 442 sweeper formation. On the one hand, we cruised through pre-season winning all games except a slip-up away to Albacete. Won the opening cup game, and the first league game. Then we lost the next two league games, before spanking Napoli 3-1 in the opening Europa League match (after Sarri told the media he was glad to be starting with an easy match!) So results have been, to say the least, mixed.

But the formation!?! It's a nonsense. I can see where a sweeper might work behind two centre backs, but with FM's default formation, the sweeper sits directly behind a lone CB with the result that they're on top of each other for the whole game. They take up the same positions, close down the same opponents, chase the same balls. From the game against Napoli, here's our average position with the ball:

kKM41fv.png

And average position without the ball:

e9vo1Jr.png

It's as if you're playing with ten men and the strength of the 442 - defending in two banks of four - is nullified because your back four becomes, at best, a back three-and-a-half. I can't believe anyone ever chose to play like this, and I'm completely baffled why SI decided to put it in the game. To make matters worse, in Horn we have one of the best young sweeper-keepers in the game - but if you play him in that role he's duplicating a lot of what the sweeper is trying to do. (From what I've read, the SK developed when managers did away with sweepers but needed someone to do a similar job.) 

On the upside, I'm happy enough with the contribution from the rest of the team. The wingers have played well, although I'd be happy if some of them could play 'opposite foot' and give us something different. Up front, Cordoba and Pizzaro have been great (although, what a weird career Pizzaro has had - check his history!). It's a fun challenge, and I can see a future save where I'd try a sweeper, but definitely behind two CBs not one.

Maybe an inspiration from the old verrou shape which was almost like a 442 sweeper

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Im up for a shot at this alongside my Journeyman game :) I will fail miserably but that is half the fun :)

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Hmmmmm simple but interesting as I have never used it in any of the recent FM's. Now how to make sure my striker doesn't become isolated . . . . . :)

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12 hours ago, warlock said:

Still not sure what to make of my 442 sweeper formation. On the one hand, we cruised through pre-season winning all games except a slip-up away to Albacete. Won the opening cup game, and the first league game. Then we lost the next two league games, before spanking Napoli 3-1 in the opening Europa League match (after Sarri told the media he was glad to be starting with an easy match!) So results have been, to say the least, mixed.

But the formation!?! It's a nonsense. I can see where a sweeper might work behind two centre backs, but with FM's default formation, the sweeper sits directly behind a lone CB with the result that they're on top of each other for the whole game. They take up the same positions, close down the same opponents, chase the same balls. From the game against Napoli, here's our average position with the ball:

kKM41fv.png

And average position without the ball:

e9vo1Jr.png

It's as if you're playing with ten men and the strength of the 442 - defending in two banks of four - is nullified because your back four becomes, at best, a back three-and-a-half. I can't believe anyone ever chose to play like this, and I'm completely baffled why SI decided to put it in the game. To make matters worse, in Horn we have one of the best young sweeper-keepers in the game - but if you play him in that role he's duplicating a lot of what the sweeper is trying to do. (From what I've read, the SK developed when managers did away with sweepers but needed someone to do a similar job.) 

On the upside, I'm happy enough with the contribution from the rest of the team. The wingers have played well, although I'd be happy if some of them could play 'opposite foot' and give us something different. Up front, Cordoba and Pizzaro have been great (although, what a weird career Pizzaro has had - check his history!). It's a fun challenge, and I can see a future save where I'd try a sweeper, but definitely behind two CBs not one.

Yeah that is utter nonsense really isnt it :D 

One of the potential side effects of this thread, were SI to have any interest, could be to provide actual meaningful feedback on the default formations in the game. Somewhat understandably (since really, no one uses them....), they have been neglected and not touched for several years (As these threads would prove!).

This would be one example of where they should really remove this from the game, or at least consider whether it is implemented properly - Ideally the sweeper should be "offset" with the other DC, more akin to a more extreme version of Stopper / Cover partnership.  

Meantime, there are not that many formations left, but given that this one is, for me, fundementally broken and cant be worked around with roles, I would be happy to draw you another if you like? 

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21 minutes ago, Jambo98 said:

I would be happy to draw you another if you like? 

Thanks but, call me a masochist, I'm happy to persevere and see where it takes us. I have a couple of ideas to try, including setting the CB to man-mark any lone striker, leaving the sweeper in a free role. Might also try the CB in an aggressive BPD-stopper role and see what happens.

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51 minutes ago, Jambo98 said:

@Deisler26 - 4321 DM Narrow 

a3a3e1c358431276fab696f9ac910c3d.gif

Sweet Lord. Koln have all the wingers, but no AMC's (that aren't injured)...

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Why not, add me to the list. Hopefully I'll be able to get it done haha

Edited by wynter

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19 hours ago, craiigman said:

5-2-2-1-0

The setup:

3YGLrQa.png pOadXtG.png

 

The manager:

PY5cT7C.png

 

The system(s)

yiqqCLk.png vDbfm5q.png atrIx7o.png

They are all very similar, to a degree. TI's the same for each, that's my style of play. A few PI's on them to try and make roles similar to those I cannot use.

No signings as of yet. Not played first friendly yet, but that's the gist of it.

First friendly vs Shakhtar and this has been thrown out right away.

I know they a decent side, but based on that I don’t see me keeping my job till the end of the season. 

This formation is horrible.

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vor 5 Stunden schrieb Jambo98:

 

@YasoKuul -5122 Sweeper DM WB

c744456c4cd0cdcbb1140db43d1d4186.gif

 

Hell yeah, I never used a formation with a sweeper before. This will be an interesting challenge.

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