More work permit and BREXIT woes...

[Glassy]

Yes... That's right. Jonsson. A SWEDISH wonderkid refused a work permit to come to... WAIT FOR IT!!! England...

Can we PLEASE add in an option prior to a game for this sort of thing? "SI's complete guess work on what will happen in the EPL when we brexit" with a tick box? I have put 6 full seasons into this game only for this BREXIT mode do raise it's ugly head. Me, SI nor anyone else actually knows what will happen when we brexit, so until that day can we please either remove it or have an option to remove it so this sort of thing doesn't ruin the game? I only ever play as English teams, and if this is staying put then I won't bother wasting my time any longer with FM. 

This wouldn't be so bad if almost every single one of these players I scout I get back "Work Permit after appeal". Then guess what? About 10% of them actually get a work permit. The whole part of this game needs some attention. 

Hopefully this isn't deleted like many other posts on this subject. 

[Cougar2010]

That is exactly the same as trying to sign any 18yo player from outside of the EU now.

Why are you making such an issue over an 18yo Swedish player but not an 18yo from Japan, Australia, South Africa or Brazil?

Its just another case of toys & pram because you can't have what you want

[Glassy]

Right, ok. So you're telling me you and the guys at SI know exactly what the process will be for young footballers to move from Europe into the English PL post Brexit? You think the British government will 100% refuse a 21 year old who is going to be earning £55,000 a week a work permit? You don't know do you? Neither do I? Neither does anyone? So why has this guess work been added into a game? And the worst part about it 5-6 seasons into a game? It's complete guess work. 

Are we also going to ignore the fact the game tells me pretty much every single young European player I scout will get a work permit on appeal, and the majority don't? Rather than being childish and accusing someone of throwing their toys out of their pram, why not just attempt a discussion with me? I'm not being rude, or abusive. These are genuine concerns and issues with the game. 

[James Debate]

I agree, it's really strange that they've decided to put in all these highly speculative gameplay mechanics without any option to customise or opt out.

By contrast I'm reminded of when FFP was first announced and SI games decided that rather than speculate what was going to be in the final regulations they just left it out of the game until it was final. Come to think of it they did the exact same thing with Team GB at the 2012 Olympics, with the Qatar and Russia World Cups, and just about every other uncertainty that has ever come up in football. They wait until it's final and confirmed. Very bizarre that they seem to have taken the complete opposite approach on this one thing.

The whole thing smacks of a cheap political statement to be honest.

[Welshace]

19 minutes ago, Glassy said:

Right, ok. So you're telling me you and the guys at SI know exactly what the process will be for young footballers to move from Europe into the English PL post Brexit? You think the British government will 100% refuse a 21 year old who is going to be earning £55,000 a week a work permit? You don't know do you? Neither do I? Neither does anyone? So why has this guess work been added into a game? And the worst part about it 5-6 seasons into a game? It's complete guess work. 

Are we also going to ignore the fact the game tells me pretty much every single young European player I scout will get a work permit on appeal, and the majority don't? Rather than being childish and accusing someone of throwing their toys out of their pram, why not just attempt a discussion with me? I'm not being rude, or abusive. These are genuine concerns and issues with the game. 

There are several outcomes in the brexit feature in game... the one you find in your save is only one outcome.

[Cougar2010]

The discusssions have been done to death over the last few months.

The work permit rules are exactly the same as they are now for any player outside the EU.

It doesn't matter what happens in the real world in 5/6/7 years time because the game will have moved on by then and we'll all be playing FM23.

As it stands each save has the potential for several different outcomes which give you a new set of rules to work within.  The rules are the same for every team in your country and therefore you are not at a disadvantage compared to the AI teams.

Why aren't you complaining about the other rules in the game? - Hong Kong only allow 5 foreigners per team, Italy you can only sign a max of two non EU players per year, the MLS has too many squad rules to list while in my save in Norway I'm allowed a max of three non EU players.  Even in England there are rules currently regarding non EU players & work permits.

Why is it only this one that is causing uproar but no-one has issues with any other rules?  You say SI don't know what the rules will be post Brexit but on the flipside neither do you, there is even an argument for saying leaving rules as they are in unrealistic.

 

The bottom line is you don't like the change to the rules, god help us if SI ever introduce random rule changes throughout a save.

 

[themadsheep2001]

They arent going to add an option for it,

And international players get refused now if they havent got enough caps, so it's not unrealistic

[Spedding]

Brexit for me should be in the game cause the football clubs in real life dont know whats going to happen so theyve got to start thinking do we start to prepare for the worse case scenario now or just carry on as nothing is changing and take the hit when they learn whats happening.       and the outcomes are all possible could happen                                 

[carlowsaint19]

2 hours ago, Welshace said:

There are several outcomes in the brexit feature in game... the one you find in your save is only one outcome.

I haven't got that far in my save yet, is there any set % of chance of hard brexit etc. Would you mind detailing what the potential outcomes are and there implications. Apologies if these have been stated elsewhere. Thanks

[Glassy]

"Why aren't you complaining about the other rules in the game? - Hong Kong only allow 5 foreigners per team, Italy you can only sign a max of two non EU players per year, the MLS has too many squad rules to list while in my save in Norway I'm allowed a max of three non EU players.  Even in England there are rules currently regarding non EU players & work permits."

Why on earth would I complain about something that isn't effecting me in my BPL game? I wouldn't. I'm telling you what I'm currently experience in my current game. 

So basically what you've confirmed is SI have taken the brexit scenario and decided to add some sort of randomiser into the game where it can negatively effect the transfers between European countries? So in some saves, nothing happens. In others, you have to have work permits for all European players to PL sides. I assume you've thought of everything and randomly removed other random countries from the EU, which might happen soon, then? And removed Scotland from the UK as well, something else that might happen? See where I'm going here? This is a football management game chaps, not a piece of political prediction software. I just don't understand why this was added in, I really don't. Fair enough once we know what will happen and the rules that will be set. But SI have used complete guess work and to the detriment of using the most popular league in the game. Well, sometimes. Sometimes it does nothing, but if you flip a coin for the SI political randomising software then you might not be able to buy a 21 year old Swedish player for Nottingham Forest in 2021. I can in my Spurs save. 

[Cougar2010]

10 minutes ago, Glassy said:

Why on earth would I complain about something that isn't effecting me in my BPL game? I wouldn't. I'm telling you what I'm currently experience in my current game. 

Ok lets talk about the rules that directly affect you in that league:

A) Work permits required for players without an EU nationality

B) Max squad size of 25

C) MInimum of 8 of those 25 qualifying as "Trained in Nation"

 

Which leads to the obvious question you've made a big issue of your linked player being Swedish, would you have started the same thread if you had been refused a work permit for an Ecuadorian wonderkid?

 

[forameuss]

7 minutes ago, Glassy said:

"Why aren't you complaining about the other rules in the game? - Hong Kong only allow 5 foreigners per team, Italy you can only sign a max of two non EU players per year, the MLS has too many squad rules to list while in my save in Norway I'm allowed a max of three non EU players.  Even in England there are rules currently regarding non EU players & work permits."

Why on earth would I complain about something that isn't effecting me in my BPL game? I wouldn't. I'm telling you what I'm currently experience in my current game. 

So basically what you've confirmed is SI have taken the brexit scenario and decided to add some sort of randomiser into the game where it can negatively effect the transfers between European countries? So in some saves, nothing happens. In others, you have to have work permits for all European players to PL sides. I assume you've thought of everything and randomly removed other random countries from the EU, which might happen soon, then? And removed Scotland from the UK as well, something else that might happen? See where I'm going here? This is a football management game chaps, not a piece of political prediction software. I just don't understand why this was added in, I really don't. Fair enough once we know what will happen and the rules that will be set. But SI have used complete guess work and to the detriment of using the most popular league in the game. Well, sometimes. Sometimes it does nothing, but if you flip a coin for the SI political randomising software then you might not be able to buy a 21 year old Swedish player for Nottingham Forest in 2021. I can in my Spurs save. 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  Just because you think it's a negative thing doesn't make it so.

[tmason122]

Quote

 In others, you have to have work permits for all European players to PL sides. I assume you've thought of everything and randomly removed other random countries from the EU, which might happen soon, then? And removed Scotland from the UK as well, something else that might happen? See where I'm going here? 

Wait until you get to 2100 and the alien invasion scenario occurs. That makes things interesting.  

[HemHat]

6 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

Ok lets talk about the rules that directly affect you in that league:

A) Work permits required for players without an EU nationality

B) Max squad size of 25

C) MInimum of 8 of those 25 qualifying as "Trained in Nation"

 

Which leads to the obvious question you've made a big issue of your linked player being Swedish, would you have started the same thread if you had been refused a work permit for an Ecuadorian wonderkid?

 

Cougar, I think the difference is that those rules exist and are confirmed irl. Nothing at all is confirmed with Brexit. Why would he complain about the game accurately simulating real life rules? I think you're missing the point a bit.

[Cougar2010]

6 minutes ago, HemHat said:

Cougar, I think the difference is that those rules exist and are confirmed irl. Nothing at all is confirmed with Brexit. Why would he complain about the game accurately simulating real life rules? I think you're missing the point a bit.

Not at all.

IRL down the line there will be rules that are likely to be different from the current ones.

I accept that its not the way that SI have dealt with rule changes in the past but they have coded in a number of outcomes all of which are realistic possibilities at the time of the coding.

He is basically using Brexit as an excuse for his real issue which is the game has stopped him from signing a player he wants.

[Mattyboy89]

12 minutes ago, HemHat said:

Cougar, I think the difference is that those rules exist and are confirmed irl. Nothing at all is confirmed with Brexit. Why would he complain about the game accurately simulating real life rules? I think you're missing the point a bit.

I agree with this. I don't think any Brexit situations should be implemented until we know the full extent of them in the real world. 

5 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

Not at all.

IRL down the line there will be rules that are likely to be different from the current ones.

I accept that its not the way that SI have dealt with rule changes in the past but they have coded in a number of outcomes all of which are realistic possibilities at the time of the coding.

He is basically using Brexit as an excuse for his real issue which is the game has stopped him from signing a player he wants.

No, he's pissed because random guess work as ruined a save for him. These Brexit rules don't exist in real life (yet), so why try and make some up to the detriment of the game.

Why not add world war 3 where your whole squad have to join the army for 3 years? It's a possibility, right? So why not add that to the game too...

We could have different scenarios too, like:

• Opposition give up and everything goes back to normal within 6 months
• We find world peace after 3 years, 0 work permits are needed
• North Korea takes over the world and football is banned, game over
• The world is blown up

See where I'm going with this?

[VP.]

Completely agree with the opening post (and @Mattyboy89 ) and a simple tick box switching Brexit on/off is all that is needed and really should have been added from the start.

[HemHat]

Brexit isn’t an excuse though, it’s the reason. As Mattyboy said, it’s guesswork and while I get that some people enjoy the challenge it adds to a save, others don’t.

Until the definite outcome is revealed, it should have been an optional extra at best. If you can’t sign a player because of real life rules then fair enough, but for the game to randomly decide based on a possible outcome that may never even happen in real life will ruin saves.

[Wells]

@Mattyboy89 Couldn't have said it better.

[Cougar2010]

22 minutes ago, HemHat said:

Brexit isn’t an excuse though, it’s the reason. As Mattyboy said, it’s guesswork and while I get that some people enjoy the challenge it adds to a save, others don’t.

 

 

Until the definite outcome is revealed, it should have been an optional extra at best. If you can’t sign a player because of real life rules then fair enough, but for the game to randomly decide based on a possible outcome that may never even happen in real life will ruin saves.

 

Its a choice SI made and given it applies to all teams in that country its the same for everyone whichever outcome you get in a save.

Saying things like it "ruins saves" though is total hyperbole and does nothing to aid the case for SI including some sort of on/off option in a future patch.

[Welshace]

My personal take..... 

 

Ilike the idea, but too early to be a hard coded feature in-game.... as others have said, would have been nice to include a tickbox on the game setup screen.. I see no downside to it.

[LaytonBhoy]

Yeah they've taken the Brexit scenario and added a randomiser. 

In my opinion that's the best way - the only way - it could have been done. Because in case the thread's creator hasn't been paying attention, the government which inflicted this shambles on us hasn't a clue how to untangle the mess they've made or any plan for what the consequences might be. You think you've got a lot to bitch about just now? Wait until this affects your favourite club in real life. 

The guys have done an EXCELLENT job on this aspect of the game. 

From where I sit - and I'm a football and politics blogger, so I do have some insight - they are amongst the only people who've given ANY long term thought to the impact this will have on the sport.

They deserve credit for it.

[HemHat]

3 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

 

Its a choice SI made and given it applies to all teams in that country its the same for everyone whichever outcome you get in a save.

Saying things like it "ruins saves" though is total hyperbole and does nothing to aid the case for SI including some sort of on/off option in a future patch.

Get what you're saying, but I disagree.

Other than being obvious I'm not sure what your first point is.

I'm not normally prone to hyperbole and I don't think what I said is, given there's evidence of it ruining the OP's save (although tbf it might not have done, reading between the lines makes me think it has), and I'm sure I have read on one of these similar Brexit threads before that SI have no intention of introducing an optional tick box.

[Welshace]

2 minutes ago, LaytonBhoy said:

Yeah they've taken the Brexit scenario and added a randomiser. 

In my opinion that's the best way - the only way - it could have been done. Because in case the thread's creator hasn't been paying attention, the government which inflicted this shambles on us hasn't a clue how to untangle the mess they've made or any plan for what the consequences might be. You think you've got a lot to bitch about just now? Wait until this affects your favourite club in real life. 

The guys have done an EXCELLENT job on this aspect of the game. 

From where I sit - and I'm a football and politics blogger, so I do have some insight - they are amongst the only people who've given ANY long term thought to the impact this will have on the sport.

They deserve credit for it.

I agree wholeheartedly....  just that the implementation could have been tweaked and a simple tick box would probably have solved a lot of negativity about it.

[HemHat]

1 minute ago, Welshace said:

I agree wholeheartedly....  just that the implementation could have been tweaked and a simple tick box would probably have solved a lot of negativity about it.

Agreed

[Cougar2010]

2 minutes ago, HemHat said:

Get what you're saying, but I disagree.

Other than being obvious I'm not sure what your first point is.

I'm not normally prone to hyperbole and I don't think what I said is, given there's evidence of it ruining the OP's save (although tbf it might not have done, reading between the lines makes me think it has), and I'm sure I have read on one of these similar Brexit threads before that SI have no intention of introducing an optional tick box.

Yeah wasn't really aiming the hyperbole bit directly at you, more in general.  Your posts have been much more reasonable on the subject

[LaytonBhoy]

They've done the best they could. They've tackled it in a way that reflects the uncertainty. 

I understand WHY that's a problem for a lot of players ... I've yet to experience it in my own save, but I know it'll come ... but it's also painfully realistic at the same time.

I can see the reasons why some want a Brexit "on-off" switch. I wouldn't mind one myself, but not for the game

[qwerty22]

A tickbox turning brexit on/off in the editor would've been a more sensible approach. 

Just like keeping the qatar world cup and playing it in the summer would've been as well. 

The Qatar world was confirmed and Brexit is still an uncertainty.

There's no place for politics or forcing an agenda in football (manager).

[Mattyboy89]

An on/off switch would be extremely reasonable for the simple fact that Brexit (which has unknown outcomes in the real world), can drastically change your game for better or worse.

It has such a large impact on gameplay which is forced onto you when it isn't even applied into the real world yet.

For me, SI implemented Brexit as a PR stunt to drum up chatter about the new iteration of Football Manager. There are countless websites that would not have spoken about the upcoming Football Manager if Brexit wasn't a 'feature'.

[HemHat]

2 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

Yeah wasn't really aiming the hyperbole bit directly at you, more in general.  Your posts have been much more reasonable on the subject

 

Compared to another football message board I post on, this is a lot more civilised so I'm just trying to reflect the tone!

[Mattyboy89]

Just now, qwerty22 said:

Just like keeping the qatar world cup and playing it in the summer would've been as well. 

I think the reason not many people have a problem with the Qatar World Cup situation is because it barely affects gameplay. Where ever the World Cup is held, doesn't really matter (game play wise).

However, randomised Brexit scenarios have a massive impact on gameplay and can negatively affect someone's enjoyment.

By all means implement new rules that happen in the real world, but don't implement rules that can have a negative effect that aren't even enforced in the real world yet.

[westy8chimp]

Should definitely be optional either; random, full brexit, soft brexit, no brexit

whilst I agree with Cougar... all clubs are affected so it's not 'unfair' to you during your save. I would certainly agree with the OP that it could seriously detriment a save game.

for instance.. take Forest.. certainly not a minnow ... but don't have the budget to sign any high potential English players because of the premium they attract. So, in a world where Brexit does not happen, young prospects from across Europe are a cheaper alternative to building a good squad on a budget.

Now lets say Brexit does happen so he has to buy more English players.. does the game also change the transfer system mechanics to lose the 'hg bias premium fee' ... NO! so the pool of players available significantly shrinks when you have a smaller budget to work with. IRL if there is a hard Brexit there will be many more English players in squads in the top divisions .. and thus the pool to buy from is bigger and those players become cheaper.

[Cougar2010]

With all the discussion on the Brexit influence its kinda overshadowed the tighter work permit rules in general.

Without it I suspect we would have seen the same kind of threads regarding refusal of WPs for many other non-EU players, instead there have only been a handful.

[Mattyboy89]

1 minute ago, westy8chimp said:

whilst I agree with Cougar... all clubs are affected so it's not 'unfair' to you during your save. I would certainly agree with the OP that it could seriously detriment a save game.

It's not about 'fairness'. It's about enjoyment. To some people, Brexit is a fun challenge, to others it's a random scenario that hasn't happened in the real world that takes fun away from the game.

[westy8chimp]

IF brexit happens it will not just affect the WP rules... but the whole transfer market as we know it will change and every aspect that entails. the game simply cannot replicate this.

[Mattyboy89]

1 minute ago, Cougar2010 said:

With all the discussion on the Brexit influence its kinda overshadowed the tighter work permit rules in general.

Without it I suspect we would have seen the same kind of threads regarding refusal of WPs for many other non-EU players, instead there have only been a handful.

Work Permits getting refused is a current real world issue. Brexit rules aren't. 

[westy8chimp]

1 minute ago, Cougar2010 said:

With all the discussion on the Brexit influence its kinda overshadowed the tighter work permit rules in general.

Without it I suspect we would have seen the same kind of threads regarding refusal of WPs for many other non-EU players, instead there have only been a handful.

it's a pissin nuiscance for sure if you compare the type of players you used to sign on older FM/CM... but actually if you compare it to real life rather than your FM experiences it's hard to get annoyed. It's rare to see too many non-eu players enter our system. and the ones that do are generally established internationals. so the game can emulate real life. These are practiced rules.. whereas brexit is guess work.

[Cougar2010]

2 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

Should definitely be optional either; random, full brexit, soft brexit, no brexit

whilst I agree with Cougar... all clubs are affected so it's not 'unfair' to you during your save. I would certainly agree with the OP that it could seriously detriment a save game.

for instance.. take Forest.. certainly not a minnow ... but don't have the budget to sign any high potential English players because of the premium they attract. So, in a world where Brexit does not happen, young prospects from across Europe are a cheaper alternative to building a good squad on a budget.

Now lets say Brexit does happen so he has to buy more English players.. does the game also change the transfer system mechanics to lose the 'hg bias premium fee' ... NO! so the pool of players available significantly shrinks when you have a smaller budget to work with. IRL if there is a hard Brexit there will be many more English players in squads in the top divisions .. and thus the pool to buy from is bigger and those players become cheaper.

But again the other teams in that division face the same problem.

Overall the quality of player the teams can attract will probably go down as there would be more English players in the higher leagues but the overall balance of the league would more or less be the same.

What I've come to realise over the years playing FM is that teams in the same division are more often than not competing for the same players and picking from the same pool.  A club that can afford to pay a bit more in wages often attracts the better players from the pool and ends up towards the top of the division.

[westy8chimp]

1 minute ago, Cougar2010 said:

But again the other teams in that division face the same problem.

Overall the quality of player the teams can attract will probably go down as there would be more English players in the higher leagues but the overall balance of the league would more or less be the same.

What I've come to realise over the years playing FM is that teams in the same division are more often than not competing for the same players and picking from the same pool.  A club that can afford to pay a bit more in wages often attracts the better players from the pool and ends up towards the top of the division.

it'd be interesting to see how the league looks and the transfer market behaves 10 or so seasons after the event. I've not had Brexit yet as I Beta'd Ajax... and just into a Derby save.

[Mattyboy89]

5 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

But again the other teams in that division face the same problem.

Overall the quality of player the teams can attract will probably go down as there would be more English players in the higher leagues but the overall balance of the league would more or less be the same.

What I've come to realise over the years playing FM is that teams in the same division are more often than not competing for the same players and picking from the same pool.  A club that can afford to pay a bit more in wages often attracts the better players from the pool and ends up towards the top of the division.

But like I said before, it's not about 'fairness'. It's about enjoyment for the player (us). 

Brexit situations spoil the enjoyment for some people because they're random rules. 

[forameuss]

Just now, Mattyboy89 said:

But like I said before, it's not about 'fairness'. It's about enjoyment for the player (us). 

Brexit situations spoil the enjoyment for some people because they're random rules. 

And boost the enjoyment of others.  

It's possible to edit it out anyway.  Not as if this is some surprise that it's in the game, it was pretty well publicised.

[qwerty22]

20 minutes ago, Mattyboy89 said:

I think the reason not many people have a problem with the Qatar World Cup situation is because it barely affects gameplay. Where ever the World Cup is held, doesn't really matter (game play wise).

 

tbf I was offended by what SI did to the Qatar world cup, I'm from the region and I believe that regardless of how the british think the vote was won,  Or when the tournament was being held, It was an OFFICIAL tournament location so it's just sad to deprave the region from that honour, It was a clear political statement by SI that I disagree with.

As for Brexit again, It's not a confirmed thing so an on and off switch would've been sufficient as it does affect gameplay. There are some borderline militiant people on here defending everything SI do but we are used to them.

[forameuss]

20 minutes ago, qwerty22 said:

tbf I was offended by what SI did to the Qatar world cup, I'm from the region and I believe that regardless of how the british think the vote was won,  Or when the tournament was being held, It was an OFFICIAL tournament location so it's just sad to deprave the region from that honour, It was a clear political statement by SI that I disagree with.

As for Brexit again, It's not a confirmed thing so an on and off switch would've been sufficient as it does affect gameplay. There are some borderline militiant people on here defending everything SI do but we are used to them.

It was nothing like a clear political statement.  It was to avoid having to completely change the entirety of the scheduling of the game for the three affected years.  Perfectly understandable given the bugs that would absolutely be brought up by changing such a core part of the game.

Or am I being militiant, whatever that means.

[qwerty22]

2 minutes ago, forameuss said:

It was nothing like a clear political statement.  It was to avoid having to completely change the entirety of the scheduling of the game for the three affected years.  Perfectly understandable given the bugs that would absolutely be brought up by changing such a core part of the game.

Or am I being militiant, whatever that means.

 

Why not run it in the summer normally then or give us the freedom to decide?

 

 

[HemHat]

1 minute ago, qwerty22 said:

 

Why not run it in the summer normally then or give us the freedom to decide?

 

 

You should have offered SI some money to keep it in - that's how it was won anyway.

[DazRTaylor]

1 minute ago, HemHat said:

You should have offered SI some money to keep it in - that's how it was won anyway.

This.  

Also, the human rights abuses going on there right now to the people actually building the stadia.  Or those who have died doing so due to working conditions.

 

[forameuss]

1 minute ago, qwerty22 said:

 

Why not run it in the summer normally then or give us the freedom to decide?

 

Freedom to decide?  The "real" option, which looks like it'll be to play it in Winter isn't possible without huge changes, so that wasn't going to happen.  The Summer, people probably would have complained that it shouldn't have been there, because it'll never happen in real life.  So they took door number 3.  

Calling it a clear political statement is just ridiculous, as is the insinuation that because they're British they're part of some sinister cabal against everything related to the bid.  They simply took an easy option development wise, nothing more, nothing less.

[qwerty22]

 

4 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Freedom to decide?  The "real" option, which looks like it'll be to play it in Winter isn't possible without huge changes, so that wasn't going to happen.  The Summer, people probably would have complained that it shouldn't have been there, because it'll never happen in real life.  So they took door number 3.  

Calling it a clear political statement is just ridiculous, as is the insinuation that because they're British they're part of some sinister cabal against everything related to the bid.  They simply took an easy option development wise, nothing more, nothing less.

I respect your opinion but check out the two posts above you 

My point is how do we approach a confirmed event and an uncertainty in a neutral way.

[qwerty22]

5 minutes ago, DazRTaylor said:

This.  

Also, the human rights abuses going on there right now to the people actually building the stadia.  Or those who have died doing so due to working conditions.

 

Might as well ban Crewe from the game for the abuse stories

[forameuss]

1 minute ago, qwerty22 said:

 

I respect your opinion but check out the two posts above you 

My point is how do we approach a confirmed event and an uncertainty in a neutral way.

Ok, colour me convinced.  Two posters on an internet forum said something about the Qatar bid.  So obviously SI are in league with them.  Guys, he's on to you! 

They approach it however they want to to be honest.  The World Cup move was done for sheer ease, and very few people gave it much more than a slightly raised eyebrow given it matters very little in the course of the game.  Brexit was massively publicised, and it was pretty obvious as to what was going to happen with each of the options.  Si made a choice, one that's back-out-able with the editor, so...deal with it I guess?