Ste Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I really think at this stage the way the managerial appointments are decided needs to be overhauled. It's been terrible for a number of years now. I've been annoyed by it for the last few versions of FM but now it's just getting silly. Just a few quick example: Roberto Mancini hired as Athletic Bilbao manager, ok that seems fine. He then gets sacked from there and then gets offered the Manchester United job. This would never happen. He's already failed in England with their biggest rivals and hasn't rebuilt his reputation since. A club with United's in game reputation should pretty much have their pick of Managers. In another game Harry Redknapp appointed, that doesn't need any critique it's just wrong. Unai Emery appointed as Man City manager. He was on the verge of the sack with Sevilla with a 40% win rate and finishing 7th. His reputation is high but current performance is quite poor. Villas-Boas appointed Arsenal manager. He had become the Inter manager and left after 7 months. Again unlikely he hadn't set the world alight at Inter. About a 50% win rate and finished in 6th. Hardly a rebuilt reputation that would have allowed Arsenal to see past his failures at previous London rivals. Sami Hyypia leaves Brighton after 6 months to take charge at Southampton. I could understand that if they were top and had Brighton flying but they were 12th. Very unrealistic leaving so soon into a contract. There seems to be a few issues at play causing all of this. First loyalty needs to be adjusted so that AI managers don't just look at club reputations and jump ship as soon as a higher rep club comes along. Hiring clubs should also take this into consideration at a higher degree. So that managers constantly leaving after short spells have that weighted against them far more. AI managers should also be able to calculate the whole package, current rep of club, transfer funds, league rep, league position, strength of playing staff(according to their judging rating). Maybe it is done like this but definitely needs to be tweaked. Next issue to solve would be having managerial reputations be a lot more dynamic. If they are not performing then their reputation should be dropping. A sacking should really be a massive drop in reputation and force the manager to need to drop down a bit and rebuild their reputation. Flavour of the month should play it's part so that a manager at small clubs who has them above expectations should be having large increases in reputation. Rival clubs seems to have no bearing on appointments. In reality fans would not be too happy to see an appointment of a rivals' previous manager. It can happen sure but not to the extent of in FM. What happens due to all these problems is that an AI manager seems to jump around the 4/5 big clubs in a league getting sacked and then re-appointed at a rival. It's just silly and really takes away from the game. I'm fully expecting Emery and Mancini to switch jobs in the next 12-18 months in my game or failing that Villas-Boas to take over at one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobblers Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 At Man Utd, my Assistant Manager suggested that we employ Martin Keown as a Coach. All I could think was over my dead body!! Just the suggestion makes me wonder how qualified he is for the job quite frankly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyxx20 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Considering how good some parts of the game are; manager appointments, times at when managers leave clubs, the managerial merry-go-round in October/November is all very amateurish! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtuck01 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Roberto Mancini didn't fail in England in real life. :confused: But yeah I agree to an extent, some appointments in game are a bit iffy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
streety Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Anybody noticed that as i call it "Sacking month" is in October i mean the seasons only just really started, I understand if the clubs are not doing great but there seems to be alot of sacking and managerial movements in October. Would this really happen? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLLMEISTER1 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Couldn't agree more with O/P The amount of managers expressing their interest in vacant roles is beyond belief, it never happens in real life in the press. Mick McCarthy just been appointed Spurs manager in my save....utter bollocks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_fenton Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Roberto Mancini didn't fail in England in real life. :confused:But yeah I agree to an extent, some appointments in game are a bit iffy. ^^^^^^^^^^ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtuck01 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Mick McCarthy just been appointed Spurs manager in my save....utter bollocks What year are you in? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domoboy23 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Zidane is terrible for it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
av3ry Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Ye, Zidane's managing some random Dutch team on my save. Ian Holloway re-hired at QPR. He was struggling at Millwall and got sacked for under-performing. He's over-achieving at QPR right now though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I daresay, if 3 years ago Pep Guardiola had been hired by Bayern Munich in Football Manager, people would have shouted that this is completely silly and Pep would never leave Barcelona, and if so, surely never go to the Bundesliga, but to Manchester United or Chelsea instead. That being said, I still agree that the appointments of managers feel pretty random and destroy some of the very nice RPG-atmosphere that the game has to offer on other fronts. For example, there is a very strong tendency in the Bundesliga for several years now to appoint U23 trainers to the senior squad, or to appoint from within the club, instead of shooting for big names. Some clubs have been quite effective with it. You rarely see this in FM, there doesn't seem to be a real career ladder for young trainers. But I fear this would need a lot of work to tackle and I am not sure a lot of players would even appreciate it. In the end, it is mostly an RPG element, because the manager itself does not really seem to change the way the AI clubs are playing. (Or does he?) Not least, because the rules, traditions and customs for appointing managers are so very different in different leagues. What is true for the Bundesliga will be completely different in the Premier League. I guess you could attach some preferences ("division prefers young managers" / "division prefers managers who speak French" / "division prefers managers with a high pedigree"), but you still would end up with very weird results. Then again: Pep and Bayern München. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZJordan Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Ermm... some aspects such as Barcelona, City, Madrid, etc offering me a job after one season in charge at Swansea are spot on. (I got them to a 5th place finish, FA Cup and Capital One cup ) imo... any manager who could do that with Swansea in real life would not be their manager for long. I went to Real Madrid, did well and got bored. But... City rehiring Mancini after Pellegrini survived for two seasons with 8th place finishes (2015-16 & 2016-17) is stupid, City would sack Pellegrini instantly if they finished below 3rd place imo, yet Pellegrini got sacked because he lost the dressing room I think, not because of poor results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinook2000 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 And the biggest one of the lot:- Sunday league rep managers getting a job at all. Where on earth would someone who had only ever played for a Pub team get any semi-pro or even a pro job? The LL English league Manager position is a highly responsible job and would rival a Mayor or local MP for importance, why would they let a leader of the local **** heads loose on the areas main team? Or a completely unknown manager i.e the player ousting Pep Guardiola or Jose Mourhinio and becoming accepted at Chelsea or Bayern. It's not that realistic in general. If the game was to be realistic from a Managers point of view we wouldn't ever get to play at being one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby_Zamora Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Pellegrini went to a second division side in Argentina and now manages Bolivia. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar2000 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Slightly off the point, but even how we set our own manager reputation is strange. The coaching badges are a good inclusion but why can't we just select "regional or national or continental" etc for our reputation instead of what level we played football at. Most of the high rep managers in the world never played international football (Mourinho, Wenger, Klopp, Villas Boas to name a few). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca72 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Ye, Zidane's managing some random Dutch team on my save.Ian Holloway re-hired at QPR. He was struggling at Millwall and got sacked for under-performing. He's over-achieving at QPR right now though. Neil Warnock... Some of the appointments are a bit off, but not all of the ones in the OP are all that daft. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanerco Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Mourinho just took up a job at Stoke in my save after a lengthy year long spell at Southampton where he got sacked. Seems legit... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Slightly off the point, but even how we set our own manager reputation is strange. The coaching badges are a good inclusion but why can't we just select "regional or national or continental" etc for our reputation instead of what level we played football at. Most of the high rep managers in the world never played international football (Mourinho, Wenger, Klopp, Villas Boas to name a few). Excellent suggestion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luka_zg Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I'm managing Fiorentina and in early march Milan approached me and offered me a job. Why am I unable to negotitate a contract with them but to start as their manager when the season ends? I don't want to leave current team in the middle of the season, I want to finish. I'd probably accept the job if I could start in June. And it's beeen like that forever in this game..not beeing possible to start the new job at the end of the season! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashOverride Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 2018 Roy Hodgson left England. Step forward Rafa Benitez........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmious7 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I personally don't find the scenarios the OP describes as unrealistic. If you'd ask me for example, Moyes going to United was an insane move last year but it happened. Much more unrealistic than Mancini going there for example. Teams irl make weird choices for coaches also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I personally don't find the scenarios the OP describes as unrealistic. If you'd ask me for example, Moyes going to United was an insane move last year but it happened. Much more unrealistic than Mancini going there for example. Teams irl make weird choices for coaches also. The problem, in my opinion, is not that there are a few weird choices. That actually would add to the fun, and we are playing a simulation, after all, not "the reality". The problem is that those odd choices are, if you come to know the game, in fact quite forseeable and more or less common: The system seems to be based very strongly on some kind of "reputation", so you will have the ever same number of coaches being connected to ever changing clubs. I play Germany a lot, and after a while, the system always seems to run out of viable German options, so the Bundesliga suddenly is flooded with Dutch, English or Italian coaches whose reputation seems to fit the parameters of the internal database. There are no real surprises, it's all highly precictable, which makes the weird choices even more annoying. They come quite regular, because the database seems to think that they are very fitting. On top of that, managers who are fired often get re-employed within the same month. It's some kind of X leaves club A, club A hires Y, club B fires Z, club B hires X, Z is hired by club C. In reality, the manager changes in Bundesliga since 2013/14 were: Stuttgart: Bruno Labbadia out - Thomas Schneider in (before: Stuttgart U17) Hamburg: Thorsten Fink out - Bert van Marwijk in (before: Netherlands national coach) Hannover: Mirko Slomka out - Tayfun Korkut in (before: Stuttgart U19) Hamburg: Van Marwijk out - Slomka in (before: Hannover) Leverkusen: Sämi Hypiä out - Sascha Lewandowski in (before: Leverkusen U19) Nürnberg: Gerjan Verbeeck out - Roger Prinzen in (before: Assistant manager Nürnberg) Hamburg: Mirko Slomka out - Joseph Zinnbauer in (before: Hamburg U23) Schalke: Jens Keller out - Roberto di Matteo in (before: Chelsea) Bremen: Robin Dutt out - Viktor Skripnik in (before Bremen II) So you have coming in: 6 coaches coming through their own club's ranks. 1 national coach (foreign) 1 Swiss coach (Premier League) In FM, it would have looked like this: Stuttgart: Labbadia out - di Matteo in Hamburg: Fink out - Labbadia in Hannover: Slomka out - Fink in Leverkusen: Hypiä out - di Matteo decides he prefers Leverkusen Stuttgart: di Matteo leaves for Leverkusen - Slomka in Nürnberg: Verbeeck out - Magath in Hamburg: Labbadia out - Dutt decides he prefers Hamburg to Bremen Bremen: Dutt out - Hypiä in Schalke: Keller out - Verbeeck in And so on. It's the same amount of coaches in a horrible boring merry-go-round. The AI choices might be weird, but they are actually not fun at all, they are just predictable. In reality, this happened only ONCE in the Bundesliga during the last 1 1/2 years: In the case of Mirko Slomka leaving Hannover and being hired by Hamburg a few weeks later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luka_zg Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Also the common instance where two big clubs sack their highly reputable managers so you have..Dortmund sack Klopp, Real Madrid sacked Ancelotti. Dortmund hire Ancelotti, Madrid hire Klopp. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Sober_Paddy Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 This is something the in game editor can fix Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
streety Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 2018 Roy Hodgson left England.Step forward Rafa Benitez........ England are DOOOOOOMED!. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevemc Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 van Gaal took the Manchester City job in my Manchester United save. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmious7 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Yeah Benitez would be the problem of the very successful English NT... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLLMEISTER1 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 What year are you in? Was towards the end of second season.....Ipswich were 10th in Championship......Go Figure the logic!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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