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Ajax – When The Real World Meets Football Manager FM14


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No-one else but they keep trying for Andersen, Eriksen, Robbins :mad: and van der Rhijn. Majority of my players are wanted but Chelsea always seem to be the ones who push the trigger first with a bid :D

Money bags! Bet they make the first bid then never follow through! :D

Anyway, as you asked previously, here is a screenshot of how Dejan Meleg is getting on;

DejanMeleg-AugustSeason2_zps3fb1fbec.png

As you can see he now has "M©" listed under his name with the other positions. He is now deemed to be competent in the position. With Siem de Jong (2months) and Christian Eriksen (4-5months) both now out injuured, there's an opportunity for him to have a run of games in the DLP role.

For now I'm going to leave him to focus on the DLP role, but after that I'll have a look at what attributes to target in the two month training cycles. First Touch will be first, but the we'll see.

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Hi, I appreciate this has been touched on earlier in thread but call me thick, I didnt properly understand.

I'm managing Spurs in season 2, had a god awful youth intake in the 1st season & gave my head of youth development the chop.

I now have Dave Parnaby as HYD set to recruit youth players to my team, he has 19 in spoting current & potential ability.

As you'll know Spurs have top training facilities, top youth facilities, grade 1 youth set up, but still it only shows I have "above average" youth recruitment.

I believe it was suggested somewhere that this might have something to do with not having like minded backroom staff. I'm just not really sure what I should be looking for to improve this.

Thank you by the way, this is an amazing thread & I've learnt more about football tactics from you in these forums than i have from watching & playing football for 30 odd years

You upgrade the youth recruitment via the boardroom options, it's under networking I think (not on the game atm to check) :)

42058863.png

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As you'll know Spurs have top training facilities, top youth facilities, grade 1 youth set up, but still it only shows I have "above average" youth recruitment.

I believe it was suggested somewhere that this might have something to do with not having like minded backroom staff. I'm just not really sure what I should be looking for to improve this.

Talk to the board, request to improve Youth Recruitment Network (under the Network options).

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Money bags! Bet they make the first bid then never follow through! :D

Anyway, as you asked previously, here is a screenshot of how Dejan Meleg is getting on;

DejanMeleg-AugustSeason2_zps3fb1fbec.png

As you can see he now has "M©" listed under his name with the other positions. He is now deemed to be competent in the position. With Siem de Jong (2months) and Christian Eriksen (4-5months) both now out injuured, there's an opportunity for him to have a run of games in the DLP role.

For now I'm going to leave him to focus on the DLP role, but after that I'll have a look at what attributes to target in the two month training cycles. First Touch will be first, but the we'll see.

Took me 2 seasons before he had DL showing on his positions :(

He's coming along steadily though on your screenshots, he should become a useful player :cool:

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Whenever I look to request an improvement of my Youth Recruitment Network it only shows the options to cut back on it. When can I request an improvement?

Depends, there is no set time. I think it also goes on how good your faciltities etc are too.

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Aye, it can be a frustrating wait. Playing as Hull I've been given the option to increase youth recruitment once in 4 seasons (3 of which have been in the Premier League), and even then I had to push them as they rejected the first request. Training/Youth facilities have been upgraded multiple times so are now maxed out, but youth recruitment seems to be the slowest to get. I would've expected Spurs to get it easier, particularly with all other areas maxed, but you'll just have to keep checking.

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Are you tutoring him?

Haven't yet as I've concerntrated my tutors on those who need it that wee bit more.

The problem I have is that i have very few players who are suitable to tutor others. I let three players go in the summer who had tutored last term and I only have one more from last seasons squad, (Daley Blind), who can do it. :(

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cleon mate, i just got a fantastic danish right winger who's a model professional but his determination is 14 and i'd like it to be higher, should i still tutor him or can i "ruin" his personality with a resolute tutor? i ask this because i have a MC who had 19 as determination but fell to 17 with tutoring and i'm afraid to hurt this youngster's amazing personality too!

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Aye, it can be a frustrating wait. Playing as Hull I've been given the option to increase youth recruitment once in 4 seasons (3 of which have been in the Premier League), and even then I had to push them as they rejected the first request. Training/Youth facilities have been upgraded multiple times so are now maxed out, but youth recruitment seems to be the slowest to get. I would've expected Spurs to get it easier, particularly with all other areas maxed, but you'll just have to keep checking.

With Blackburn I only got the option to improve recruitment after winning the Europa league I think. I think it might be an international reputation thing after you get to a certain level.

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cleon mate, i just got a fantastic danish right winger who's a model professional but his determination is 14 and i'd like it to be higher, should i still tutor him or can i "ruin" his personality with a resolute tutor? i ask this because i have a MC who had 19 as determination but fell to 17 with tutoring and i'm afraid to hurt this youngster's amazing personality too!

It depends what type of personality you want him to have tbh and the reasons behind you thinking he needs higher determination.

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Haven't yet as I've concerntrated my tutors on those who need it that wee bit more.

The problem I have is that i have very few players who are suitable to tutor others. I let three players go in the summer who had tutored last term and I only have one more from last seasons squad, (Daley Blind), who can do it. :(

That's an issue when you start as Ajax not many tutors in the squad due to it been young :(

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It depends what type of personality you want him to have tbh and the reasons behind you thinking he needs higher determination.

i love my team's determination, i lost count of the matches they've turned around but a model professional will hit his potential fairly quickly am I correct? in your opinion, is it better to wait a bit longer for his full development and have him blend with the squad's personality (changing from model professional to resolute?). Serero has been a beast for me in the RW and Kishna is exploding at the moment so I have no urgency for a right midfielder at the moment!

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Hi Cleon, nice post.

This post is about development of players, so I post a question about your tactics in this save on Ajax post.

If possible, Can you answer that please???

Thanks.

I'm not really going to go into the tactic side of things because once I answer one question I'll have to answer them all. Sorry. What I will say though is I play 41221 and its morealess the one I posted about in the 'understanding Your Tactic Thread'.

But that's all anyone will get out of me as I cba to do tactic stuff anymore :)

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But that's all anyone will get out of me as I cba to do tactic stuff anymore :)

Done to death agree, enough of your threads to go by :)

In relation to a couple of things I noticed with my youths... I have two young kids who according to my coaching team are 5*, they are both 18 and have great atts in the areas I want them to. Now.. I was hit by quite a severe inury crisis and decided I had no other option to but to move them from the u18 squad and straight into first team. I was joyed to see them slot in so well with good ratings but the improvment in Green Arrows was startling, after 5 games It was like Id stuck them in a abilty grow bag, the dark greens were sprouting all over the place.

Training is good but first team exp is a real winner from my exp of fm13.

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Training is good but first team exp is a real winner from my exp of fm13.

Within reason I think.

I have a load of newgens in my squad, and those that play from the start generally rate at 7+ and see the Green Arrow spurt you see.

However, my bench is also full of newgens, and their 30 minute cameos result in the occasional 6-6.5 rating, which can harm morale and negatively affect the arrows.

It's quite hard to balance, because the benched guys are too good for my U19 and B teams, I want them to have first team exposure, but not so much that it reduces the quality of my team, nor so little that it is hard for them to achieve high match ratings.

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I'm not really going to go into the tactic side of things because once I answer one question I'll have to answer them all. Sorry. What I will say though is I play 41221 and its morealess the one I posted about in the 'understanding Your Tactic Thread'.

But that's all anyone will get out of me as I cba to do tactic stuff anymore :)

Ok Cleon. That´ll help.

I´ll take a read in this post 'understanding Your Tactic Thread'.

Thanks a lot.

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Within reason I think.

I have a load of newgens in my squad, and those that play from the start generally rate at 7+ and see the Green Arrow spurt you see.

However, my bench is also full of newgens, and their 30 minute cameos result in the occasional 6-6.5 rating, which can harm morale and negatively affect the arrows.

It's quite hard to balance, because the benched guys are too good for my U19 and B teams, I want them to have first team exposure, but not so much that it reduces the quality of my team, nor so little that it is hard for them to achieve high match ratings.

Totally agree, I meant playing them full time knowing they would succeed. Im a bit of an git with my kids to be fair, If i know they can perform well and get the ratings I chuck them in. If i do and they fail I farm them out to a feeder. Rarely do I use them for bench warming as its negative for both in my eyes. Id rather have exp on the bench, farm the kids out and bring them in when they are bang on ready (unless expectional circumstances like my injury crisis!)

Thought its tough balancing act keeping ambitious hungry players and season exp pros all happy. The joys :D

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Head of Youth Development

The HoYD influences the type newgens you get coming through the ranks albeit a very tine percentage of influence compared to your youth set-up/facilities/recruitment network and so on. But none the less it does have some bearing on the following;

  • He will have a slight impact on the potential of newgens
  • Some of them will share the same personality type as the HoYD
  • Newgens could be influenced by his coaching style.

However he isn't my ideal HoYD but he certainly is the best I can currently acquire. I could have gone for someone more obvious like Phil Cannon but he lacks determination so if I can increase the chance of getting regens with high determination it means I could potentially save time in the long run by having to tutor them to try and raise the determination attribute.

Ideally you'd want like-minded backroom staff due to how they influence the type of newgens you get even if it is only a tiny percentage.

What would you say are the key criteria when looking for a Head of Youth Development?

I have been looking for Determination, Judging Player Potential, Man Management, Working With Youngsters.

I currently have David Dodds (Determination - 17, Judging Player Potential - 16, Man Management - 14, Working With Youngsters - 19)

My thinking is JPP to pick out the best, and then Determination, Man Management and Working With Youngsters help them in their day to day role of managing the development the youngsters.


Under 19's Manager

I'm hoping he is young enough to improve and get better as he ages. If not it'll be no loss and I'm sure he can be replaced quite easy. But short term he is a great stop gap and as all the required attributes to be honest, working with youngsters, determination, motivation and level of discipline are all quite high. A vast improvement on the man he replaced.

Do you pay any attention to Man Management, JPA/JPP or Tactical Knowledge? Would his style of football also need to match yours to get the best results?

I was reading through SFrasers old thread about Youth Team Managers and it raised the question how much do U18 results affect development?

Youth Team Manager

The guy tasked with managing the games of the Cristiano Ronaldo of the future, with all the petulance and arrogance and childishness that comes with it. A guy tasked with taking a bunch of children in personality with limited skill in a set of competitions offering minimal developmental opportunities.

Forget being nice to these lads, they are too immature to understand. All that matters is results, which boosts ability growth, while you hope Gary Neville can kick some sense into his protege just before he knee-slides towards the Liverpool U-19 bench, kissing the United badge.

It is nigh-on impossible to team-talk youngsters towards the all important result necessary for CA improvement, so you can only hope that the youth team managers tactical ability can do it instead.

Man Management can be useful for forming early relationships. Anything less than perfect Motivation is nigh on useless so ignore it. Tactical ability is an absolute must.

If these guys don't win, they don't develop.

I currently have Terry McPhillips as my U18 Manager. (Judging Player Ability - 15, Judging Player Potential - 18, Man Management - 17, Motivation - 17, Tactical Knowledge - 12, Working With Youngsters - 18)

I never really considered Discipline as part of the youth manager as I have always considered that more to be a coaching attribute and not related to the management.

Take Arsene Wenger for example (Determination - 19, JPA - 18, JPP - 20, Level of Discipline - 10, Man Management - 17, Motivation - 10, Tactical Knowledge - 15, Working With Youngsters - 20)

Perhaps the new U18 Assistant role could be used in a similar way and have a motivator/discipline split, with each member of staff taking a different role (e.g. Good Cop, Bad Cop)?

I would be interested to hear your thoughts?

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What would you say are the key criteria when looking for a Head of Youth Development?

I have been looking for Determination, Judging Player Potential, Man Management, Working With Youngsters.

I currently have David Dodds (Determination - 17, Judging Player Potential - 16, Man Management - 14, Working With Youngsters - 19)

My thinking is JPP to pick out the best, and then Determination, Man Management and Working With Youngsters help them in their day to day role of managing the development the youngsters.

It depends what you want him to do. If you use him for signing youths or having him bring youths into the club (youth intakes) then he needs JJP.

The things I look for first are Determination, level of discipline, man management and motivation. These are the basics and ideally you'd want this in every single coach. Then because he handles youths he obviosuly needs working with youngsters. Then a decent attribute for whatever coaching you'll be having him teach.

Do you pay any attention to Man Management, JPA/JPP or Tactical Knowledge? Would his style of football also need to match yours to get the best results?

I was reading through SFrasers old thread about Youth Team Managers and it raised the question how much do U18 results affect development?

Man management is vital its one of the core atrributes that rating are worked from along with determination, level of discipline and motivation.

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As soon as i started the save, the first member of staff I hired was Phil Cannon from Blackburn Rovers. Every year i've had at least one 5* player coming through to the U19s and, as he's in charge of contracts etc, hasn't miss evaluated a single player and keeps the kids happy, many young players have him as his favourite staff. Couldnt be happier with this HoYD, 5 seasons in!

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Hello Cleon,

it's definitly a great thread and you succeed to change my point of view about training. Sorry to spoil this thread with that stupid question but...what is the difference between the 2 kind of tutoring please? I read a lot about it, and there are so differents views...that I don't clearly know the answer.

Thanks

Regards

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As soon as i started the save, the first member of staff I hired was Phil Cannon from Blackburn Rovers. Every year i've had at least one 5* player coming through to the U19s and, as he's in charge of contracts etc, hasn't miss evaluated a single player and keeps the kids happy, many young players have him as his favourite staff. Couldnt be happier with this HoYD, 5 seasons in!

He is good yeah, shame about his low determination though :(

Hello Cleon,

it's definitly a great thread and you succeed to change my point of view about training. Sorry to spoil this thread with that stupid question but...what is the difference between the 2 kind of tutoring please? I read a lot about it, and there are so differents views...that I don't clearly know the answer.

Thanks

Regards

I did explain this in the tutoring section of the thread...

However the top option can transfer PPM's and works on hidden stats and determination.

The 2nd option is just hidden attributes and determination.

It's incase the tutor has unsuitable PPM's that you don't want the player to pick up :)

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Got these two newgens at the end of the first season. Anyone any ideas how you think a) I'm progressing them and b) whether there positions should be altered?

ZI9wZm1.png

LBkkkTu.png

Depends what shape and system you play in all honesty. What are the current plans for them?

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Fantastic thread cleon, well done! I know some people already asked for it, but are going to put a detailed post about your scouting strategies?

And another question, I'm having some difficulties to find tutors that have those personalities, you canno't select personality in the search menu, so any tips to help me finding tutors with those personalities, how do you do it?

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Thanks for the update Sherlock, 5 days and no post from the OP = "dead"?

Last real update from Cleon was on 22 January, so no 5 day, and the previous one even earlier, so learn to count.

And calling me Sherloch - how lame is that?

Back to topic - no news from Cleon for quite some time, more often is the readers who publish here anything.

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Last real update from Cleon was on 22 January, so no 5 day, and the previous one even earlier, so learn to count.

And calling me Sherloch - how lame is that?

Back to topic - no news from Cleon for quite some time, more often is the readers who publish here anything.

Once again Sherlock fantastic deductive reasoning. We are allowed to take short breaks once in a while and that does not necessarily mean a post is dead, furthermore readers do post here, at least some of them. Fantastic observation:applause:? I dont see how thats on topic anyway.

By the way can anyone confirm whats minimum youth level your facilities need to be for optimum development. 4 ?

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Last real update from Cleon was on 22 January, so no 5 day, and the previous one even earlier, so learn to count.

And calling me Sherloch - how lame is that?

Back to topic - no news from Cleon for quite some time, more often is the readers who publish here anything.

You do realise he has life away from the forum? He has a job and a young family to look after, so posting updates here isn't exactly high on his list of priorities. When he has the time I know he'll posting some more bits and pieces.

As i said earlier, he's away for a few days so just be patient - he's meant to be back at the end of the week. Until then just chill out and stop getting your knickers in a twist.

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We are allowed to take short breaks ?

"We"? Since when you are Cleon? I wasn't even writing what I wrote to you specifically, so why did think you should come up with such a BS and sudenly become a "we"? Don't you get enough attention in real life? Not feel enough important or such? Besides, what does Sherlock have to do with me writing about my thoughts? It's not like I'm deducting anything, you smartass. Next time please take a little more time to find more appropriate name to call me. If you are able to, btw.

And to tomtuck01 - I understand pretty well that Celon's got enough things on his mind right now for this tread to be his least concern, but seeing him posting massive responses on other threads all the time and fery few right here, I just thought he's neglecting this one, so to speak. That's why I found this one dead.

No need to show holy indignation, both of you. Sorry if I offended any of you.

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Enjoying this thread. Good to see different methods people use to get the best from their players.

I understand why the training systems were changed for FM13 but i do quite miss being able to tailor individual training schedules for players.

At the moment i am having a problem which i've not had before, so was wondering if anyone had a solution to it: I've 2 players, both wingers, one an inside forward from the left and the other a winger on the right, both are perhaps my most promising youngsters, but both are having some horrible stat decreases. They are improving on a few mentals, and whichever attribute i have focused, but now and then and far too frequently, the rest of their stats are all dropping, horribly so.

Now, i have a few theories as to why this might be. Firstly, let me say, both are happy with their training schedules, and have no complaints. One has a fairly determined personality, the other fairly professional. And now and then i do see attribute increases across the board for them both, but they soon drop down again, undoing any of the progress made.

One thing both of them have in common, is they are both training new positions. As far as i am aware this will more than likely slow their attribute development but it shouldn't be the cause of them getting worse?

The other thing they both have in common, is both play week in week out for my team and are crucial to it. This brings me to two possible causes and a question that i have always wondered about FM anyway but never experienced it - Can young players suffer burnout? Can they play too much and it have a negative effect on their development? I've never had this problem in FM, but as a Liverpool fan i've seen what can happen for young players with too much too soon, Insua being the prime example. The other side to them both being in the first team, is i've got fixtures coming in thick and fast, my squad does not contain a lot of depth and i've got a few injuries so i've been having to have a fair few rest days between matches. This is what i suspect may be the prime course of the problem, but they are not the only young players having to take rest days and the others seem to be developing without a hitch.

My last theory is my facilities, though i doubt this is the case. They are of a "Good" standard, but i'm wondering if the level of them is perhaps holding them back. My coaches are all pretty solid in quality, giving me 4.5 star to 5 star coaching across the board for the most part.

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skam's nonsense isn't worth giving attention to.

Techstep: A couple of thoughts.

1. What exactly is your training split? As in Team Training (Focus + Level), Match Training (Focus + Percentage), then individual focuses. Could it be that your players are gaining attributes in the areas they're working on most, in this case the mental side and specific focus, while the attributes dropping are receiving little attention? Similar to the previous system having Heavy/Intensive silders for one area and almost no slider for something else. This could occur if, for instance, your team training focus is Fitness with lots of Match Trainining and individual focus on Quickness. A player following a schedule like that would still put plenty of time into their physical training but with that fitness focus and lots of match training their technical development would be neglected.

2. When you say gaining and losing attributes, are you seeing definite changes in the attribute graphs or just seeing angled green/orange arrows? A player can have orange arrows in multiple attributes for various reasons, and while it will look like a decline they're only dropping 0.1 or so. This can be down to something as simple as recent form or morale and players will often fluctuate slightly in attributes they're not really focusing on, say going 14.2, 14.3, 14.3, 14.2, 14.2, 14.3 etc. In this cases you'll keep seeing green and orange arrows but nothing is really changing.

3. The players could have hit their potential ability, and now every time you see an attribute gain somewhere you're seeing a corresponding loss elsewhere as rather than gaining ability you're now seeing attribute redistribution. It's not unusual for a player to show high potential from coaches/scouts and start developing fast, then suddenly plateau and stop. You might spend a season or two wondering why they're not getting better, then all of a sudden your backroom staff change their potential rating and indicate that the player won't improve further. Potential stars aren't 100% accurate and sometimes they simply get it wrong.

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One of the players I am developing had he stats increasing very quickly, however now for basically every attribute it has an orange arrow on it, as if it is decreasing. What is the reason for this as he is not injured?

He won't be decreasing, if you have a screenshot of him before the orange arrows the numbers will be exactly the same. If i'm right in saying (Someone with the correct know how do so if i'm wrong) but the numbers 1-20 behind the scenes are like 2.4 and 8.7 and they will be represented at 2 and 9 because they are below the .5 and above the .5 mark. So it'll just be him levelling out so to speak and not actually decreasing.

EDIT : If it is worrying you go to the player and talk to him and under development I think it is, it says "training level" then say show improvements in training if you want a first team spot and if he has a good personality he will accept it and train harder.

Hope that helped a little.

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My massive responses to other threads eh? I've not replied massivley to anyone for weeks so not sure what skam is on about....

But moving on,

I'm back now until Monday then I'll be away again for a few days, so doubt I'll be updating the thread before then. But I'll try and catch up and answer the questions that people have posted.

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I've just had the following:

Elio Carravetta believes that Osman Can Ozen is disenchanted at trying to shadow Javi Martinez. Carravetta reports that Osmac feels there was no way he could learn from a player when there was such a clear difference in personality between them.

They're both 'fairly professional' so how does that work?

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I've just had the following:

Elio Carravetta believes that Osman Can Ozen is disenchanted at trying to shadow Javi Martinez. Carravetta reports that Osmac feels there was no way he could learn from a player when there was such a clear difference in personality between them.

They're both 'fairly professional' so how does that work?

Other hidden attributes could be a lot different. Just because someone is 'Fairly Pro' doesn't mean all those types are the same.

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Fantastic thread cleon, well done! I know some people already asked for it, but are going to put a detailed post about your scouting strategies?

And another question, I'm having some difficulties to find tutors that have those personalities, you canno't select personality in the search menu, so any tips to help me finding tutors with those personalities, how do you do it?

Yeah I will be doing something on scouting but it'll take a bit of time to write up as I have a massive project going on atm and work is picking up too :(

As for finding tutors I just search the free players or expiring contracts and see which big named players I can bring in.

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I've not read through all the posts in here, but what did the board and the fans think of you signing the old players? I'm worried they might get angry about that as they won't understand the reasoning.

Why would they get angry?

If I sign a massive name to tutor, for arguments sake lets say Totti then the board might be dissapointed if I didn't play him but it makes no real difference in the end as he'll only be there for a year max.

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Why would they get angry?

If I sign a massive name to tutor, for arguments sake lets say Totti then the board might be dissapointed if I didn't play him but it makes no real difference in the end as he'll only be there for a year max.

Because my board expect me to concentrate on youth and an objective of mine is to bring through and play youth players. So signing a bunch of 30+ players would go against playing youth. Plus, on the 'player signings' tab within board confidence they might see Zenden and Litmanen as old and past it and not good enough for the team.

Other hidden attributes could be a lot different. Just because someone is 'Fairly Pro' doesn't mean all those types are the same.

I understand this. But I wanted to try and reduce the 'confrontational' personality in Ozen, so teamed him up with someone who is not so confrontational, but also determined as this is the closest match I could find in my team. Is he just against learning and changing his personality or am I doing something wrong?

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