Ajax – When The Real World Meets Football Manager FM14

[tomtuck01]

Really interesting thread and a thorough approach.

Just a question - I bought a 17yo striker with "Model Professional" personality but somewhat low determination (10 if memory serves right since Im posting from work). I know that determination isn't terribly important for the progression of the player's attributes but I think for a (future starting) striker its low. For the role of the tutor I have 2 or 3 options, all of them with "Resolute" personality and determination between 17-19. My worry is that he may lose points from the professionalism attribute (since in Resolute professionalism varies from 15-20 and i don't have a way to find out the exact figure of this attributes in the tutors)

Should I try and tutor him or professionalism is too good to risk lowering it?

Determinations improve with age.

I personally wouldn't see the point of tutoring a Model Professional unless I wanted him to learn a PPM that couldn't be learnt through training.

[Cleon]

Personally I'd leave him as his determination isn't that important for me aslong as he has the correct attributes and personality.

[C4R1S08]

Is there a quick way to find a players Personality without clicking into there details? i mean can you search for a player with a model Citizen type of personality or will i just have to click into each player? How do you find the right tutors quickly?

[Zakiii]

Hi Cleon,

First of all, i want to thank you for this thread, you inspire me to put on youth players.

But i have problem in my 4-th season, in some players between 21-24 years old, attributes fall, like Verratti.

Do you have any advice how resolve this problem?

[achilles-the-victorious]

Tell the player to pick it up in training.

Continue to give them a lot of playing time (to ensure their development starts up again).

It happens because the players CA at a given moment has been reached, so the attributes temporarily decrease.

Just think of it as a chance to work on another area of the player's game.

Hi Cleon,

First of all, i want to thank you for this thread, you inspire me to put on youth players.

But i have problem in my 4-th season, in some players between 21-24 years old, attributes fall, like Verratti.

Do you have any advice how resolve this problem?

[Cleon]

Is there a quick way to find a players Personality without clicking into there details? i mean can you search for a player with a model Citizen type of personality or will i just have to click into each player? How do you find the right tutors quickly?

I don't find them easy. I search all players with expiring contracts or free agents.

[Rashidi]

Is there a quick way to find a players Personality without clicking into there details? i mean can you search for a player with a model Citizen type of personality or will i just have to click into each player? How do you find the right tutors quickly?

Basically its a pain in the ass way of searching..really tough, since I only want their personalities I usually make it easier by looking for players who are close to retiring and have international experience behind them.

[Cleon]

Hi Cleon,

First of all, i want to thank you for this thread, you inspire me to put on youth players.

But i have problem in my 4-th season, in some players between 21-24 years old, attributes fall, like Verratti.

Do you have any advice how resolve this problem?

Did you give him a proper pre-season? What did you focus on?

[Rashidi]

The thing I find about tutoring is this:

I don't tutor everyone and I hardly ever tutor anyone to transfer ppms unless they are worth transfering (ie hidden ones). Since ppms can be learnt relatively fast..3 in one season, tutoring on the other hand can be iffy, not necessarily all and takes a big chunk of a season I find.

I am just wondering if others are having different experiences.

I can however add that PPMS make too big a difference in tactics, for me at least. I recently offloaded a whole bunch of players in the last 2 seasons I reckon 8 of them for a total recoup of nearly 100million pounds. This season most of my players are "newish" and some don't have the same ppms and I find the fluency lacking..it will be interesting to see what happens towards the end of the season.

[Cleon]

The thing I find about tutoring is this:

I don't tutor everyone and I hardly ever tutor anyone to transfer ppms unless they are worth transfering (ie hidden ones). Since ppms can be learnt relatively fast..3 in one season, tutoring on the other hand can be iffy, not necessarily all and takes a big chunk of a season I find.

I am just wondering if others are having different experiences.

I can however add that PPMS make too big a difference in tactics, for me at least. I recently offloaded a whole bunch of players in the last 2 seasons I reckon 8 of them for a total recoup of nearly 100million pounds. This season most of my players are "newish" and some don't have the same ppms and I find the fluency lacking..it will be interesting to see what happens towards the end of the season.

Tutoring takes 180 days. But PPM learning can be anything from 3 months to 9 months.

What I tend to do is always learn 1 player in my side all the PPM's I want for that position. Then when I have a newgen I can get them to pick up nearly all the PPM's in 1 tutoring sessions which can save me maybe 1-2 years or longer depending on how many he has.

[Rashidi]

Another thing I was looking for confirmation on..whenever I want a young players natural fitness to go up I train Strength, it has the effect of increasing his aerobic attributes and increase natural fitness as well, seems to work fine for me..I really hope this isn't a one hit wonder..but I have now seen 3 players get higher natural fitness after focusing on strength.

[Zakiii]

Did you give him a proper pre-season? What did you focus on?

I think i did. I focused him on Advanced Playmaker. Before this training gives very good results, but i don't know what happend now

[silten]

I've started to build some of Cleon's development strategy into my own game now and am pleased with the early progress.

One thing I'm struggling with now is knowing when to ship out those players that probably won't make the grade for my own first team. As I started the new strategy only last season, I've a (large) number of 18-22 year olds who didn't get the benefit of the new regime at an early age and while there are those among them who could still have a future at the club, there are too many of them to give adequate first team exposure to at once.

I have four or five players currently not fully developed that are asking to be loaned out. I'm saying no as they are a work in progress and need to be kept in house, which is unsettling a couple of them. My gut feeling is to move them on, but it'd be like selling a half finished painting.

[Cleon]

I've started to build some of Cleon's development strategy into my own game now and am pleased with the early progress.

One thing I'm struggling with now is knowing when to ship out those players that probably won't make the grade for my own first team. As I started the new strategy only last season, I've a (large) number of 18-22 year olds who didn't get the benefit of the new regime at an early age and while there are those among them who could still have a future at the club, there are too many of them to give adequate first team exposure to at once.

I have four or five players currently not fully developed that are asking to be loaned out. I'm saying no as they are a work in progress and need to be kept in house, which is unsettling a couple of them. My gut feeling is to move them on, but it'd be like selling a half finished painting.

It might be worth you shipping most of them out and starting again with a core of players so you can keep on top of it and give them exposure if they need it. Personally I'd sell anyone over 20ish who already doesn't get games for you because most should be knocking on the door of the first team by now imo

[silten]

It might be worth you shipping most of them out and starting again with a core of players so you can keep on top of it and give them exposure if they need it. Personally I'd sell anyone over 20ish who already doesn't get games for you because most should be knocking on the door of the first team by now imo

Yep, there'll probably be a cull in the summer. It's evident by the more rapid progression of the 15-17 year olds, that these older guys will soon be overtaken by them in any case. Time to get unemotional and tell them that their futures lie elsewhere.

[Cleon]

Noooooo......seems my game is corrupt and wont load, the same with the back up copy.

Now I have a decision to make, restart or not....

[Zakiii]

Can you upload your save on some server ? Maybe on other computer it will be fine.

[Sleepydude]

Sometimes the SI guys can fix corrupted saves if you upload them to their ftp server, maybe worth a try?

[hehehemann]

Noooooo......seems my game is corrupt and wont load, the same with the back up copy.

Now I have a decision to make, restart or not....

This happened to me back on FM2009 after doing the whole youth academy project. I was gutted, so much work put in, all for nothing. I gave up with FM at that point, couldnt bring myself to start it all over again. I'm about to start on FM13 and the youth acadamy project, its taken years for me to feel it again.

Hopefully something fixes something for you.

[interesti88]

Been following this thread since its inception, started my own project with Newcastle United but after 5 seasons so far all I have to show for it is 1 FA Cup win and mostly mid table finishes.

I've been wondering since the Premier League is more challenging then say the Eredivisie, is it harder to see results? I've been contemplating leaving Newcastle and the Prem for the Serie A because it would be easier to win trophies, but I don't want to leave my Newcastle boys.

[RTHerringbone]

Been following this thread since its inception, started my own project with Newcastle United but after 5 seasons so far all I have to show for it is 1 FA Cup win and mostly mid table finishes.

I've been wondering since the Premier League is more challenging then say the Eredivisie, is it harder to see results? I've been contemplating leaving Newcastle and the Prem for the Serie A because it would be easier to win trophies, but I don't want to leave my Newcastle boys.

I think you'd find the same wherever you go. An FA Cup win for Newcastle in the context of real life is quite an achievement, so you're doing pretty well.

[lewis999]

Been following this thread since its inception, started my own project with Newcastle United but after 5 seasons so far all I have to show for it is 1 FA Cup win and mostly mid table finishes.

I've been wondering since the Premier League is more challenging then say the Eredivisie, is it harder to see results? I've been contemplating leaving Newcastle and the Prem for the Serie A because it would be easier to win trophies, but I don't want to leave my Newcastle boys.

Keep at it with Newcastle, i'm sure you will eventually get there and win the Premier League, and I know it will feel all the more better as you stuck with it and they are "your" players.

[TwinsFan86]

Since Viktor Fischer was talked about a few posts ago and I finally finished my first Ajax season, thought I would post my progress. He really started to come on strong at the end of the year with a couple of really nice goals.

Trying to remember what I focused on. The current focus is Quickness for another month or two. I also did Strength and Strength for a few months each. Once I'm done with quickness, I'll do Dribbling, First Touch, Passing, and Composure, 3 months each. I'm really excited to see him develop more. Really starting to get into my Ajax save now.

[djennings1301]

I am at a loss as to how you managed to win the Champions League so early Cleon. I know you said some of it was luck. I am by no means struggling, but I am at the end of the fourth season, and have been knocked out in the quarter finals for the 3rd year in a row. Lost to Juventus for the second year running, as I am having trouble cracking their 3-5-2. I did beat Barca in the round of 16, so I guess I can't complain too much! Hopefully I can reach the semi finals next season.

[Cleon]

Been following this thread since its inception, started my own project with Newcastle United but after 5 seasons so far all I have to show for it is 1 FA Cup win and mostly mid table finishes.

I've been wondering since the Premier League is more challenging then say the Eredivisie, is it harder to see results? I've been contemplating leaving Newcastle and the Prem for the Serie A because it would be easier to win trophies, but I don't want to leave my Newcastle boys.

You realise this is a training thread and not a tactic one right? But either way, I have a save with the Toon as well and dominate the league/cups on that since the 2nd season.

[Cleon]

Since Viktor Fischer was talked about a few posts ago and I finally finished my first Ajax season, thought I would post my progress. He really started to come on strong at the end of the year with a couple of really nice goals.

Trying to remember what I focused on. The current focus is Quickness for another month or two. I also did Strength and Strength for a few months each. Once I'm done with quickness, I'll do Dribbling, First Touch, Passing, and Composure, 3 months each. I'm really excited to see him develop more. Really starting to get into my Ajax save now.

Some nice progression there

[Pafeu]

Developing and promoting young lads is fantastic. This kind of approach pays off big time. At the start of the game Feyenoord was in financial troubles, 2 bank loans costed us million pounds monthly. But right now, in January 2020 we've got 318 mln in account, 253 mln available for transfers, better transfer kitty than Man City

And I'm verry happy how Achahbar have delevoped. Playing him as IFa on the left wing, performing so well.

[Rashidi]

Noooooo......seems my game is corrupt and wont load, the same with the back up copy.

Now I have a decision to make, restart or not....

Its a tough ask..I learnt my lesson after one of my stafford saves was corrupted 2.5 seasons of work. I had to rebuild from the last good point onwards. There is a way to track down the files on your hardisk which is quite a fair bit of work provided you did incremental saves and practice frequent backing up. I know how it feels so I feel the pain. What I can add is rebuilding may not take as long as you think, the danger is the speed at which you want to catch up..that will be your achilles heal..it took me awhile though.

[fuzzrab]

I have to hand it to Cleon i am really enjoying my Rangers save so far trying to play based on the development theory. I have realised that due to current predicaments that i cant really start fully implementing the theory till i get to th SPL (currently in SFL1) and have money to get good coaches and facilities. on the flip side i have been able to develop some of the young Scottish lads from the begining and am very impressed with the developments.

Hopefully you can retrieve your save Cleon as i am intersted to see how you have been going.

[tomtuck01]

Noooooo......seems my game is corrupt and wont load, the same with the back up copy.

Now I have a decision to make, restart or not....

Clearly just an excuse so you can restart and develop Queencyy Menig like I have.

[vkastanas]

Clearly just an excuse so you can restart and develop Queencyy Menig like I have.

Ha, ha, ha...Is it true Cleon! Hope you get it back though. It happened to me with FM2012 but was able to save it. Just had to play some games all over again!Good luck with it...as we want those screenes from u...

PS: I will soon be asking you something on your tactics thread as I don't seem to get FM to obey me. I'm bore of my form: LLLLLLLLLLDLLLLDDWLLLLL etc.

[Cleon]

I know what my issue is with the save game and it can't be recovered. However I have found I do have a back up from season 3 uploaded that I could use to rebuild from I guess.

[vkastanas]

I know what my issue is with the save game and it can't be recovered. However I have found I do have a back up from season 3 uploaded that I could use to rebuild from I guess.

That must be a relief...

[Cleon]

That must be a relief...

Kind of I guess. But it's also disheartening knowing you have to replay the seasons you've played. But I'll see what the weekend brings

[vkastanas]

Kind of I guess. But it's also disheartening knowing you have to replay the seasons you've played. But I'll see what the weekend brings

Good luck with what you decide. Just know that we will be following...Old or new doesn't matter!

[silten]

Cleon, aside from tutoring to gain PPMs, what would be an acceptable success rate when training them in your view? I currently see more failures than successes but I don't know if that's normal.

I assume the choice of coach is a factor, but what's the selection process there? Choosing an attacking coach for passing and shooting PPMs makes sense, as does a defensive one for the defensive PPMs, but I'd appreciate some guidance beyond that.

[Cleon]

Cleon, aside from tutoring to gain PPMs, what would be an acceptable success rate when training them in your view? I currently see more failures than successes but I don't know if that's normal.

I assume the choice of coach is a factor, but what's the selection process there? Choosing an attacking coach for passing and shooting PPMs makes sense, as does a defensive one for the defensive PPMs, but I'd appreciate some guidance beyond that.

Does the player have the attributes for said PPM's? I very rarely have a PPM fail. I've had about 10 fail in 10 season for around 200 players which is a very high success rate. Even if the coach tells me it wont be successful I still get them to attempt it and more often than not its successful.

[silten]

Does the player have the attributes for said PPM's? I very rarely have a PPM fail. I've had about 10 fail in 10 season for around 200 players which is a very high success rate. Even if the coach tells me it wont be successful I still get them to attempt it and more often than not its successful.

When a coach tells me it won't work, they're generally right. I suspect it's the quality of the student if your failure rate is so low. I'll concentrate on my star pupils for a while and keep track of it.

[Falahk]

Noooooo......seems my game is corrupt and wont load, the same with the back up copy.

Now I have a decision to make, restart or not....

I am probably very superstitious, but I suspect something with the auto save mechanism is not working properly, and end up corrupting save games.....since I stopped using auto save I have only had one corrupted save game, and that was due to my computer bluescreening while I was saving (I only lost a preseason and it was perfectly understandable why it happened)

[Cleon]

I am probably very superstitious, but I suspect something with the auto save mechanism is not working properly, and end up corrupting save games.....since I stopped using auto save I have only had one corrupted save game, and that was due to my computer bluescreening while I was saving (I only lost a preseason and it was perfectly understandable why it happened)

I've never used auto save

I'm sorted now though I think. I'll restart the 3rd season that I have a save from online.

I'll try and update the thread with something about scouting in the next week too.

[Falahk]

Really interesting thread and a thorough approach.

Just a question - I bought a 17yo striker with "Model Professional" personality but somewhat low determination (10 if memory serves right since Im posting from work). I know that determination isn't terribly important for the progression of the player's attributes but I think for a (future starting) striker its low. For the role of the tutor I have 2 or 3 options, all of them with "Resolute" personality and determination between 17-19. My worry is that he may lose points from the professionalism attribute (since in Resolute professionalism varies from 15-20 and i don't have a way to find out the exact figure of this attributes in the tutors)

Should I try and tutor him or professionalism is too good to risk lowering it?

unless you have a model pro/perfectionist/model citizen with better determination for the task then you should never tutor him in a case like this

[Hazza22299]

Cleon, I've got a bit of a dilemma.

I have a promising regen keeper:

But the thing is, I know he won't become as good as Sczcseny will. My question to you is:

How can I get the most amount of money possible for him/develop him the most?

As the England manager I've been trying to play him there as much as I can as well as in some fairly easy games but he won't be able to get the first team action he requires to develop him full? What should I do and when do you recommend I sell him?

[Falahk]

But the thing is, I know he won't become as good as Sczcseny will.

what makes you think that? sure he is not eccentric enough and dont rush out enough for my taste but it looks like he can become really good

[Zlatan]

One question Cleon,

Since you won the Champions League 5 times did the reputation of the Eredivisie rise above three stars? And did the league get more automatic champions league starting spots? Now it's only one. At the moment the league champion gets an automatic place in the group stage and the number two has to play play-off matches.

[Salsa666]

What is most important for producing good regnes to your youth squad, Junior Coaching, youth facility, youth recruitment?

[Rashidi]

One question Cleon,

Since you won the Champions League 5 times did the reputation of the Eredivisie rise above three stars? And did the league get more automatic champions league starting spots? Now it's only one. At the moment the league champion gets an automatic place in the group stage and the number two has to play play-off matches.

erm I dont think they get more if they win it 100x, getting more slots depends on the total number of sides that make up the top 8 and the number that make it to the semis as well. So apart from winning it you need sides to consistently do well in the competition, so if England suddenly has a period where their sides fail to make it past the quarters, then their coefficient drops. Though league sizes play a part too, and since the english premier league has 22 sides and I think in Holland there are less than that.

[tomtuck01]

erm I dont think they get more if they win it 100x, getting more slots depends on the total number of sides that make up the top 8 and the number that make it to the semis as well. So apart from winning it you need sides to consistently do well in the competition, so if England suddenly has a period where their sides fail to make it past the quarters, then their coefficient drops. Though league sizes play a part too, and since the english premier league has 22 sides and I think in Holland there are less than that.

20 sides in the Premier League, 18 in the Dutch top flight.

[Hazza22299]

what makes you think that? sure he is not eccentric enough and dont rush out enough for my taste but it looks like he can become really good

You think so? If you think so, how should I ease him in?

[Gee_Simpson]

what makes you think that? sure he is not eccentric enough and dont rush out enough for my taste but it looks like he can become really good

Why would you want a keeper to have a high eccentricity attribute?

[interesti88]

You realise this is a training thread and not a tactic one right? But either way, I have a save with the Toon as well and dominate the league/cups on that since the 2nd season.

Yes I know.

In your Newcastle save how did Adam Campbell turn out for you? I ask because when I took charge of Newcastle at the beginning I wanted to develop him but at the time I was mixing and changing tactics, I ended up loaning him out for a couple of seasons and let him stay on at the club in his final season of his contract he performed well scoring a few goals but decided not to re-sign him as he was 22 and well past his development stage.