Ajax – When The Real World Meets Football Manager FM14

[Cleon]

Cleon I think you should try to add a FAQ to the OP. It would save you and us a lot of time.

Almost every question asked in this thread so far is already answered or explained in the opening posts already. But people don't read

[Gurnisson]

After reading this thread, I guess I should've played quite differently. Have tutored to little and loaned out too much.

Cheers for all the info though!

[djennings1301]

Want to get some opinions on PPMs - I usually try to teach no more than 4, but im not sare if i should bang them out one after the other, or space them out over development. The ideal situation would be to learn through tutoring, but sometimes that isn't possible. Also, how much impact do coaches reactions have on teaching? i.e. "i dont think player is capable of doing x, maybe we should teach him y."

[Cleon]

Want to get some opinions on PPMs - I usually try to teach no more than 4, but im not sare if i should bang them out one after the other, or space them out over development. The ideal situation would be to learn through tutoring, but sometimes that isn't possible. Also, how much impact do coaches reactions have on teaching? i.e. "i dont think player is capable of doing x, maybe we should teach him y."

I give PPM's as soon as the player has been tutored (you can't do both at same time) or between tutoring sessions if there isn't someone else who can tutor him straight away. The sooner he has the PPM's you want him to have the better imo.

In this thread Planning Ahead - The Deep Lying Playmaker;

Every single PPM I wanted to teach the player the coach said he'd not be able to do it. I ignore the coach as I have specific PPM's I want the player to learn. If it fails and doesn't work then fair enough that's the downside of learning them.

[ashlfcowen]

3 years ago I linked up with Boca Juniors as they have a fantastic youth set up. Every so often I filter through their squad and while doing so a young Argentinian caught my attention. It stats were above average but the one thing that caught my attention was his passing. I currently play with a ball playing defender so passing and composure are two key attributes IMO to use in that position effectively. With some fine tutoring by Agger and a few certain areas being trained I now have this chap within my ranks;

I have just set his specific training to jumping, hoping to get that around the 15 mark then I'll consider him to be the perfect ball playing defender with an invaluable market price.

Now this is evident that 'nurturing' a player is easy enough with some dedication and note taking (important IMO as if you're developing a few players you need to remember where you've trained them and for how long etc) but making a "living" from it which is what Cleon is planning/doing is a whole different ball game.

Great, great thread.

[ashlfcowen]

Although a question I do have to ask which I may have missed out in the previous 5 pages, what is the maximum age a player can be tutored at?

[Cleon]

Although a question I do have to ask which I may have missed out in the previous 5 pages, what is the maximum age a player can be tutored at?

You can't tutor anyone 23 or above.

[ashlfcowen]

My 19 year old striker, Peder Bach refuses to show up on the list when I try and get him tutored by Dirk Kuyt or Elmander - two players of whom would be the perfect tutor to him. He's not injured and is available for selection. Any idea why this could be?

[Cleon]

My 19 year old striker, Peder Bach refuses to show up on the list when I try and get him tutored by Dirk Kuyt or Elmander - two players of whom would be the perfect tutor to him. He's not injured and is available for selection. Any idea why this could be?

Is he learning a PPM? Do the tutors have a lower rep than the striker? Does Bach have a lower squad status than the tutors? (he needs to have) Or do you already have 10 players listed when you try and tutor? Are the tutors injured?

The reason should be one of those

[ashlfcowen]

Is he learning a PPM? Do the tutors have a lower rep than the striker? Does Bach have a lower squad status than the tutors? (he needs to have) Or do you already have 10 players listed when you try and tutor? Are the tutors injured?

The reason should be one of those

Your third solution worked a treat, thanks.

[Cleon]

No worries glad to have helped

[Sleepydude]

Has anybody been able to consistently raise jumping through specific training? It never seems to work with me, which is particularly annoying as I have a great regen striker whose jumping used to be 15 but over the years he's been injured a few times, and often while injured his physical stats have dropped slightly. This is normal and they can be raised again by training, EXCEPT jumping. By now his jumping is down by 4 points, and I notice him not winning headers like he used to. I had his focus set to jumping for almost a whole season and while other attributes improved, jumping never did.

edit- here he is, he's been amazing for me:

[Cleon]

The jumping attribute is takes from height. So it will only change if the player gets taller.

[ashlfcowen]

sleepydude, I hope like me you're praying your player hasn't finished puberty yet...

[Sleepydude]

Damn. Don't think he'll grow much more at 23

[Sleepydude]

The jumping attribute is takes from height. So it will only change if the player gets taller.

I wonder why they include a "jumping" specific training focus though, unless that means you slip your players growth hormones.

[djennings1301]

I give PPM's as soon as the player has been tutored (you can't do both at same time) or between tutoring sessions if there isn't someone else who can tutor him straight away. The sooner he has the PPM's you want him to have the better imo.

In this thread Planning Ahead - The Deep Lying Playmaker;

Every single PPM I wanted to teach the player the coach said he'd not be able to do it. I ignore the coach as I have specific PPM's I want the player to learn. If it fails and doesn't work then fair enough that's the downside of learning them.

Excellent, thanks. This thread has made me reach new levels of addictedness...

[Falahk]

You can't tutor anyone 23 or above.

so this has changed from fm12? recall that the cap was at 22 back then

[Shakes]

The jumping attribute is takes from height. So it will only change if the player gets taller.

While jumping is certainly tied to height in that taller players have a higher range of jumping values they'll top out at than shorter players, it's not taken directly from height, players can improve in jumping without growing. From example:

At age 16 and 187cm, he had 15 jumping.

3 years on he has 17 jumping without growing at all.

This is without ever focussing on jumping, if you focus on it then I'm sure you could get even better improvements.

[Cleon]

While jumping is certainly tied to height in that taller players have a higher range of jumping values they'll top out at than shorter players, it's not taken directly from height, players can improve in jumping without growing. From example:

At age 16 and 187cm, he had 15 jumping.

3 years on he has 17 jumping without growing at all.

This is without ever focussing on jumping, if you focus on it then I'm sure you could get even better improvements.

Actually height is taken directly into account with the jumping attribute;

Taken from PaulC;

But at the moment it doesn't look like the jumping stat is tied to the height stats at all, even among regens. I thought the idea was to give taller regens better jumping stats to give an idea that height was counted for.

It is, or it should be. But height isnt linked to CA ( and hence performance ) and that wont be changing.

Height is included in the Jumping attribute - Jumping is how high a player can get his head.

There are loads more of him saying the same thing if you do a little search and more recent. But I didn't have the time to search through every one while on my phone.

In the example you've posted the player was young and already 6ft 1, so he could actually grow into his. Plus its the reason why it only changed by 2 points in 3 years because the maxed he can achieve is set by his height.

Look through all your players or the AI players and you'll see it is tied together.

[Cleon]

so this has changed from fm12? recall that the cap was at 22 back then

Pretty sure in one of the FM12 training threads on here myself and others posted players been tutored who were 22. I'm sure a player can be tutored up until he can tutor.

[Falahk]

Pretty sure in one of the FM12 training threads on here myself and others posted players been tutored who was over 22. I'm sure a player can be tutored up until he can tutor.

on fm12 you could not start a new tutoring session after the player had turned 22 as far as I recall it (he could ofcorse still keep learning while his age had hit 22 thought)

[Cleon]

on fm12 you could not start a new tutoring session after the player had turned 22 as far as I recall it (he could ofcorse still keep learning while his age had hit 22 thought)

Which means 23

[Gary_Parker]

Cleon, I dunno if you've mentioned it previously in the thread (a CTRL+F browser text search suggests no) but how did you end up utilising Daley Blind? In my game I just cannot find a regular place for the boy. With the central defence being covered by Moisander, Toby, Denswil and Veltman, left back being covered by Dijks and Boilesen, right back with Van Rijhn and Ligeon and of course the midfield covered by Sporks, Roly, Poulsen etc.

[Cleon]

Cleon, I dunno if you've mentioned it previously in the thread (a CTRL+F browser text search suggests no) but how did you end up utilising Daley Blind? In my game I just cannot find a regular place for the boy. With the central defence being covered by Moisander, Toby, Denswil and Veltman, left back being covered by Dijks and Boilesen, right back with Van Rijhn and Ligeon and of course the midfield covered by Sporks, Roly, Poulsen etc.

Defensive midfielder I used him as. That was his main position but if I had injuries/suspensions then he might cover those. But 90% of the time he was my DMC

[Gary_Parker]

Really? Actually, I don't know why i'm surprised by that in honesty. I rotate Roly and Sporkslade there with Poulsen and Eriksen further forward in the 3 mids. Schone is the rotation there with Siem as well when I feel like something different. I just didn't think Daleys pace was enough to cover the width of the field if he was required to. I may revisit him in that role though.

[Cleon]

Really? Actually, I don't know why i'm surprised by that in honesty. I rotate Roly and Sporkslade there with Poulsen and Eriksen further forward in the 3 mids. Schone is the rotation there with Siem as well when I feel like something different. I just didn't think Daleys pace was enough to cover the width of the field if he was required to. I may revisit him in that role though.

It's his natural position and he is intelligent enough to make up for the lack of pace imo.

[Gary_Parker]

It's his natural position and he is intelligent enough to make up for the lack of pace imo.

True that its his natural position. I may have to visit this again.

Happy with how my youngsters are going. Into Jan on Season 1 and Meleg, Sporkslade, Van Den Boomen all scored on their debut games too while Kishna, Tete and Menig have performed well when called into the team for cup games.

[vkastanas]

Phew! Just finished reading a great thread! Good work there Cleon (and others of course)....

I just wanted to tell you that I have recently started an new game in Indonesia. I think is a real challenge and I thought of making one in the "Challenges" thread. I like Lower League Management so I took over the famous PS Siak. I found that their status is amateur and everyone can come and "steal" my players... So in my second start I offered them all to clubs and made a squad of all "grey" players. (And that's the link with this thread) I have to develop those if I am to have any success. So, my Q's:

1. Do u think I can do the same at that low league?

2. Not any good trainers/coaches/tutors are coming my way (the ad for HYD must be there for ages in the old save).How can I solve this?

3. Facilities are crap. How do I solve this?

[Cleon]

1) I use the same approach with Sheffield FC and Paysandu and it worked. Obviously not on the scale of a bigger club but it can still work for the level you play at yes. Plus you tend to play the players more when your in the lower leagues as you don't have the luxury of having good players who you can't drop. Plus add to that the fact that players get poached a lot.

2) Offer older players coach contracts etc if you can. Just get the best you can for the money and level you are at.

3) Keep improving them when you can. That's what I did at Sheffield FC, it was hard but eventually I got them improved after a good season and decent cup run.

[vkastanas]

No older players atm as I offered them all.

In any case being amateur means that u don't have contracts either for players or stuff. Anyone can come and sign them anytime.

players get poached a lot.

. What do u mean by that?

[Cleon]

No older players atm as I offered them all.

In any case being amateur means that u don't have contracts either for players or stuff. Anyone can come and sign them anytime.

. What do u mean by that?

I found when I was making my way through the leagues teams were always taking my players

[vkastanas]

At least you got a fee for them as long as they had contracts. I meant that they grab them even If it is not transfer's period.

Have u ever tried an all grey players challenge. Should be interesting with your deep knowledge of the game...

[C4R1S08]

Im hoping this is the right place to post this seeing as im trying to do what cleon is doing, i have my team on low training, but high individual training on certain areas, but the players are always tired, they are match fit but thier condition is like 92% then by half time its in the low 80's, i have had to swap players around a little and give rest to some, but this has inpeeded (sp) on performance, i have drew games that i was winning because the fb/cm/wing etc are low condition. How do you guys keep you team fit for each match?

A seperate question, and sorry if im being dumb, but if a player has a pa of 165 and his ca is 135, does that means he has 30 points still to make up in any of the attributes i want? is that how it works? so if i can improve 10 attributes by 3 then he will be maxed out in ability?

Thanks

[Falahk]

A seperate question, and sorry if im being dumb, but if a player has a pa of 165 and his ca is 135, does that means he has 30 points still to make up in any of the attributes i want? is that how it works? so if i can improve 10 attributes by 3 then he will be maxed out in ability?

that is sort of how it work, thought different attributes consume different amounts of CA, so it would not be 10 different attributes improving by 3 each

[strangepup]

@cleon

amazing work...looking forward to following thread

[Hazza22299]

Two questions (I am manager of England and Arsenal:

1. If a player from my youth plays a international football match is that as beneficial/more than a first team football match?

2. If I give a player an international cap (So I become his favoured person) is he more likely to join my club/stay with my club?

[C4R1S08]

Here are my young ones at the end of the first Season. How would you train them up Cleon and anyone else who wants to have a we go. Most of them have had a good number of games. Moonen is a regen, just got him, he looks like a very good target man to me, but i dont think this will work for me.

Fischer

Kishna

Menig

Van Der Hart

Moonen

Anderson

Sporkslede

Meleg

Boomen

I think they have improved pretty well

Tete - My DOF Loaned him out without me realizing, so maybe not as good as he should be

Thanks

[Cleon]

Two questions (I am manager of England and Arsenal:

1. If a player from my youth plays a international football match is that as beneficial/more than a first team football match?

2. If I give a player an international cap (So I become his favoured person) is he more likely to join my club/stay with my club?

1) Its the same thing as first team football, there not different

2) It would depend on what the clubs rep was and what his ambition etc was.

[Cleon]

Here are my young ones at the end of the first Season. How would you train them up Cleon and anyone else who wants to have a we go. Most of them have had a good number of games. Moonen is a regen, just got him, he looks like a very good target man to me, but i dont think this will work for me.

Fischer

Kishna

Menig

Van Der Hart

Moonen

Anderson

Sporkslede

Meleg

Boomen

I think they have improved pretty well

Tete - My DOF Loaned him out without me realizing, so maybe not as good as he should be

Thanks

Tete is probably my best player and has been since 3rd season. Him and Denswil are amazing.

What are your plans for Meleg? I had him re-train as a fullback but Toms got him to be a DLP.

[C4R1S08]

I was trying to copy you with training him as a fb, but he dont look that good in general. Are his current stats looking decent for fb? I was annoyed at my DoF, but tete played a good number of games for me & for the loanee club, he will get more games for me nxt season, and may trainj him for lb aswell, just to add a little cover and he will get extra game time on the left as van ryijn (sp) is immense at rb.

[Cleon]

I was trying to copy you with training him as a fb, but he dont look that good in general. Are his current stats looking decent for fb? I was annoyed at my DoF, but tete played a good number of games for me & for the loanee club, he will get more games for me nxt season, and may trainj him for lb aswell, just to add a little cover and he will get extra game time on the left as van ryijn (sp) is immense at rb.

No he'll need work for whatever position you want him to play in.

This is him for me at end of season 4;

Still not finished yet but hes improving really well. Not bad considering he isn't that great when he comes to the club and older than I'd like to start moulding them by at 18.

As for Tete he'd not play for you at LB though would he? I assume you've still got Djiks? He'll become your left back for the next 10 years.

Tete develops nicely;

[Hazza22299]

1) Its the same thing as first team football, there not different

2) It would depend on what the clubs rep was and what his ambition etc was.

I'm Arsenal, I'm assuming you can guess their ambition by their determination and Media-style?

[Cleon]

Praise them in the media etc and build a strong relationship with them and they might want to sign for you then. If your on his favoured list he should be more inclined to play for you should he want to leave his current club etc.

[lewis999]

I'll post it in the tactic thread of yours Cleon as my question is more relevant in there.

[Rashidi]

Finally I am a side that has worldwide rep, and managed to get ourselves upgraded to Top Training Facilities and Top Youth Facilities, I reckon I am one off from State of the Art Youth Academy which is being built now...so fingers crossed I have some players coming through the ranks, still buying the best youth in the market :-(

The game is getting to me now, all i do is play on commentary and look for lil green arrows

[C4R1S08]

Yeah i have Djiks, he was pretty much my 1st choice Lb all season. How are my players developing on the whole though? i have good coaches and the training facilities are being upgraded & the youth facilities will be upgraded and running by Oct 2013. How are others playing these players and do you agree that Moonen looks like a target man?

[Cleon]

Yeah i have Djiks, he was pretty much my 1st choice Lb all season. How are my players developing on the whole though? i have good coaches and the training facilities are being upgraded & the youth facilities will be upgraded and running by Oct 2013. How are others playing these players and do you agree that Moonen looks like a target man?

Well compare your players to the ones I am developing and posted about so far.

Moonen looks like he could become a targetman yeah. He looks really good.

How are you training Fischer? We seem to be training them different as our attributes vary quite a lot. Here is him on mine end of season 1;

[C4R1S08]

I have decided that he looks like an awesome Inside forward, most of his attributes point that out to me, unless im wrong, so i have been doing 2 months training in certain areas such as Technique, Strength, Dribbling & Finishing. I had him getting trained by i can't remember, but he is now getting trained by Rivaldo and has a Personality of Resolute, this is the same as Rivaldo, so i don't know if he was this before the training or he picked it up from Rivaldo. Out of curiousity, which one is better after the first year attribute wise, Mine or Your's Fischer? He will get a lot more game sthis season, i am going to rotate him with babel who has been immense for me.

[nikiforenko666]

Really interesting thread and a thorough approach.

Just a question - I bought a 17yo striker with "Model Professional" personality but somewhat low determination (10 if memory serves right since Im posting from work). I know that determination isn't terribly important for the progression of the player's attributes but I think for a (future starting) striker its low. For the role of the tutor I have 2 or 3 options, all of them with "Resolute" personality and determination between 17-19. My worry is that he may lose points from the professionalism attribute (since in Resolute professionalism varies from 15-20 and i don't have a way to find out the exact figure of this attributes in the tutors)

Should I try and tutor him or professionalism is too good to risk lowering it?