Football Manager 14 Feedback Thread - 14.1.4

[fausto8rossi]

Once again, I do think those people who think things have been dumbed down and the ME gone backwards could do with visiting the tactics forum. The discussion in there is stronger and richer than it has ever been.

what kind of a tactic could prevent robben trying to win corner through the legs of defender when the team is on a deadly counter attack? or which instruction could tell lamela not to wait for defender to catch him when he has the 20 meter advantage?

[fausto8rossi]

2 years spelled with juve, i played more than 100 games, won %75 off all games till the last update. please tell me what is the chance of not scoring from long distance when you have players with the high long shot skills like lamela(17), pogba(19),vidal(15), honda(16), danilo(16), and 14 with bruma,veratti,bonaventura,benteke,marchisio,giovinco,ayew,santon! after the last update came, i kept playing with my tactic which helped me to win 2 scudetto, and this lead my team to concede in every game and cant score more than a goal in 20 matchs. its not just tactics, admit it.

[themadsheep2001]

2 years spelled with juve, i played more than 100 games, won %75 off all games till the last update. please tell me what is the chance of not scoring from long distance when you have players with the high long shot skills like lamela(17), pogba(19),vidal(15), honda(16), danilo(16), and 14 with bruma,veratti,bonaventura,benteke,marchisio,giovinco,ayew,santon! after the last update came, i kept playing with my tactic which helped me to win 2 scudetto, and this lead my team to concede in every game and cant score more than a goal in 20 matchs. its not just tactics, admit it.

If you have a specific bug to mention by all means upload it. Otherwise you have misinterpreted wwfan's point completely.

[lomekian]

For me when the ME works as it should do, this is by far the best FM released.

But I would agree with the above lengthy post about the sensation of a lack of control. Where I disagree is that we had all that much more before. You could fine tune more, but essentially there is much I want to do that I can't. If I am Arsenal, I can't instruct my playmakers to play straight balls between centre-half and full back for the diagonal runs of walcott. I can't for love nor money get Ramsey to get into the opposition area without totally screwing the balance of my team Etc

What I will say is that on the latest patch they have just started to work these out once I found the correct balance of tactical instructions. But not consistently, and the ai of others on the team to react as they should to this is still a little sketchy.

I will make a few general negative observations:

The weighting of 'tactical familiarity' is too high, and is too easily affected. I set up 3 tactics, play maximium preseason games, do all the right training yadda yadda, and it still takes till end of november for my team to get their head around the 1st choice tactic. I buy some players in january (often kids), and this basically re-sets my familiarity, which then takes till march to get going again. As my team is still doing ok, this only bothers me because of how the ME implements it. Lets just say at lower levels I do a lot of the "your team hit the woodwork an incredibly *insert massive number here* times" post match interviews. These disappear as my tactic gets more comfortable. This makes no sense.

ME still has issues with Free-kicks though it HAS improved. Still far too many of the straight down the middle landing on the roof of the net variety.

1 on 1 finishing is still very poor, even from *deadly* strikers. I really don't expect them to score most of the time.

Wingers still love running to the byline and passing back to full backs, or trying to win corners. "I said cross more often from deep you cretins!".

Attempted through balls are still on the low side despite instructions.

It also seems to me that employing certain tactical choices are too powerful in terms of overriding other possibilities....ie if you choose retain possession, your team ignores simple through balls crosses etc, when one would expect a more dynamic outcome (needless to say dropped that one!). Likewise the impact of PPMs seems too universal.

Nearly all of these have got better on the latest patch, and some of the big problems of before are gone, so on the whole good job. But if by the January patch we get a more stable ME, can we please try to keep as much of it in place of FM15, rather than another 6 weeks of customer play-testing!? ;-)

[missinginstereo]

Ah come on, they've STILL not fixed the shots to goals ratio. Or is this just me? Played countless 0-0 or low scoring matches where i've had over 15 shots on target with REALLY good players and i've been lucky just to get a goal.

I've also experimented with the game by saving before a match and replaying it a bunch of times without making any changes or in match changes (unless forced to) and i've been gubbed, hammered the opposition, drew and basically the results have been all over the place which really doesn't fill me with a great deal of confidence.

Kudos to those talking about cohesion. I've STILL never seen that bar totally full.

[erdi41]

My strikers always miss clear chances.

Opposition's slow target men always dribble through my defence and scores whenever he has the ball and I'm playing with a deep defensive line.

Annoying.

[milnerpoint]

I know, he just annoys me so I'm being a knob about it.

Feel free!

[Beestonite]

what kind of a tactic could prevent robben trying to win corner through the legs of defender when the team is on a deadly counter attack? or which instruction could tell lamela not to wait for defender to catch him when he has the 20 meter advantage?

I'd love to see an answer to this. Typically it's the sort of straight to the point counter argument which gets completely ignored, much to my frustration. Can wwfan or another 'expert' answer this please?

[Dagenham_Dave]

I've also experimented with the game by saving before a match and replaying it a bunch of times without making any changes or in match changes (unless forced to) and i've been gubbed, hammered the opposition, drew and basically the results have been all over the place which really doesn't fill me with a great deal of confidence.

Unless one of the teams has a huge adavantage over the other at the start of play, surely you'd expect to see wildy varying scorelines? Imagine if, in real life, they replayed the Swansea-Newcastle game from last night over and over. Do you think it'd finish 3-0 to Swansea every time?

[Tiger Woods]

I just wish SI would give some indication on a tuesday or wednesday to say if a update is likely that week or not, no pressure on them for future dates or anything like that, then we can move on to the next week with what we have.

[milnerpoint]

I dont think they have said any update is coming any time soon, im not expecting anything before next year personally.

[Rhazmuz]

I dont think they have said any update is coming any time soon, im not expecting anything before next year personally.

Would be nice with a ME update before christmas, of even update 14.2, but yea, 2014 might be a better aim for that. We can always hope for an early christmas present

[Mr Ash]

This is exactly what i think and what i feel about this game now.

Sadly, the more play with latest patch the more agree. I feel now I am setting tactics not to get my team how I would like to play but to counteract the match engine flaws.

[Nix]

Some specific constructive criticism of 14.1.4 patch (which overall I'm loving...)

- Bug? Own goals caused from defenders powering headers into their own goal while defending crosses/corners. (I have seen 5 of these in 15 games).

- Too many woodwork shots

- Bug in getting a player to tutor again after they have already tutored (it's meant to be a month after but it's taking way longer?)

[CactusC]

I'd love to see an answer to this. Typically it's the sort of straight to the point counter argument which gets completely ignored, much to my frustration. Can wwfan or another 'expert' answer this please?

Me too. Have played through another half season after the new patch, but am giving it a rest now waiting for the next update. I am a bit fed up with the flaws in the ME (or the graphic descriptions thereof). Seeing my wingers time and time again casually strolling around waiting for the defenders to catch up or seeing my fullbacks being completely unable to take a throw in. How hard is it to throw a ball to a teammate three yards away compared to throwing it 20 yards straight to the opposition? Or to see my striker getting fouled and then be called offside instead despite being in front of the whole defensive line. Such a glaring bug it is amazing it sneaked through the first week of beta testing.

[cynet]

Okay my pros and cons of FM14 so far with the new patch!

Pros!

Interface is more user friendly.

Tactics are more easier to understand and work out compared to the old slider bar days.

Scouting and training are a joy now with more options than ever.

Love the gold star system which reflects there potential and position strengths.

Director of football is a nice addition if you can't be arsed to do any player contract signing.

Board interaction is far more informative as well as the finances as well.

Management contracts are far more interesting with regards to haggling.

The various different options to the match views and highlights in the game is a delight.

The online modes are superb within the structure of the game as well as the social media options.

Huge player data bases as well as many league structures around the world.

Add and remove leagues are a fantastic addition to the game.

Cons!

Match engine is still rather on the delicate side even though it has been slightly improved over the last patch which was hideous to say the least.

Press conferences are still badly repetitive and one dimensional.

The team talks are another bland idea with very limited in direction.

The constant bad advice from your assistant manager in the match play are laughable if not diabolical at times.

Non League players on low wages turning you down because they want triple there wages and even reserve players been listed and not playing any games asking for crazy sums of money.

Overall!

Every year seems the same major issue with the game and that is the match engine and I know Paul C works his backside off trying to work on the bugs and getting it tested and feel he doesn't get enough support from the fm community or the developers because every year is the same and maybe the 11 month time frame for each release is not enough? Some would yes and some no but this does effect the game for many months of release and it does get peoples backs up because it seems no lessons are learned from previous releases.

The press and team talks need a major revamp as that has just come as repetitive boring grind which doesn't add any excitement to the game what so ever.

But it is a very good game and once they release a few more patches this version in my opinion will be one of the best in the series but not thee best as FM07 was perfect in every way including the match engine.

[wwfan]

I'd love to see an answer to this. Typically it's the sort of straight to the point counter argument which gets completely ignored, much to my frustration. Can wwfan or another 'expert' answer this please?

It's known as failing to see the wood for the trees.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Seeing my wingers time and time again casually strolling around waiting for the defenders to catch up .

Does that actually happen? I've never seen this once in hundreds of hours of gameplay. I've seen defenders close them down quickly, I've seen wingers attempt to win corners off them, I've seen wingers put in dreadful crosses - all part of football - but as yet, I've never seen a winger be in acres of space and simply stop and wait for the defence to catch up with them then lose it.

[RTHerringbone]

Does that actually happen? I've never seen this once in hundreds of hours of gameplay. I've seen defenders close them down quickly, I've seen wingers attempt to win corners off them, I've seen wingers put in dreadful crosses - all part of football - but as yet, I've never seen a winger be in acres of space and simply stop and wait for the defence to catch up with them then lose it.

I've never seen a wide midfield Role, in acres of space, stop and invite a defender to catch up, but then that isn't what CactusC actually said.

What I have seen is wide midfield Roles get into sufficient space to cross, but to then delay which allows a defender to make a block or tackle.

I think decision making just needs to be quicker and more intelligent when attacking, and that more players need to support attacks, earlier.

[Beestonite]

It's known as failing to see the wood for the trees.

Not particularly constructive advice that really.

Herringbone put it better, admitting that there are sides to the game which probably do need changing such as decision making (i.e. allowing defenders to catch up rather than crossing) even though some of the descriptions are a little extreme or exaggerated.

I wish I had a version of your game wwfan. Do SI release a version to you every year which has no bugs??

[milnerpoint]

Yeah i see that, i see wingers take too long to decide and then lose the chance to cross, and the only real option is the cut back. Its usually the opportunities where a drilled cross into the box could be dangerous, never usually when a simple cross is possible.

[CactusC]

I've never seen a wide midfield Role, in acres of space, stop and invite a defender to catch up, but then that isn't what CactusC actually said.

What I have seen is wide midfield Roles get into sufficient space to cross, but to then delay which allows a defender to make a block or tackle.

I think decision making just needs to be quicker and more intelligent when attacking, and that more players need to support attacks, earlier.

Exactomundo. My wingers in general play well, but sometimes it is like they forget what they need to do or that they need to do it quickly.

[milnerpoint]

Not particularly constructive advice that really.

Herringbone put it better, admitting that there are sides to the game which probably do need changing such as decision making (i.e. allowing defenders to catch up rather than crossing) even though some of the descriptions are a little extreme or exaggerated.

I wish I had a version of your game wwfan. Do SI release a version to you every year which has no bugs??

Thats not remotely what he has said at all, wwfan will know better than ANYONE on here about what are actual bugs in the ME.

[hsvruled]

that (trying to get a corner buy pushing the ball behind the goal line) bug ... is driving me crazy .. wannabe realism .. BIG FAIL

[CactusC]

Another thing I noticed is that under 14.1.3 the 3D games ran like a dream on my lap top, but under 14.1.4 they can get a bit choppy. I suspect it is something in my machine, but perhaps someone else has noticed it too?

[jc1]

Another thing I noticed is that under 14.1.3 the 3D games ran like a dream on my lap top, but under 14.1.4 they can get a bit choppy. I suspect it is something in my machine, but perhaps someone else has noticed it too?

I'm the opposite, mines runs better with new patch.

[RTHerringbone]

that (trying to get a corner buy pushing the ball behind the goal line) bug ... is driving me crazy .. wannabe realism .. BIG FAIL

PaulC commented somewhere (maybe early in this thread) to say that the fix for this only just missed 14.1.4.

It can be annoying but I don't think it is enormously frequent, and will be fixed in the next update.

[Beestonite]

Thats not remotely what he has said at all, wwfan will know better than ANYONE on here about what are actual bugs in the ME.

He didn't say anything did he apart from a sarcastic remark so what is your point about my point? Or is there another line to his post which has a cloaking device that can only be removed by certain individuals in the loop?

[CactusC]

I'm the opposite, mines runs better with new patch.

Weird, I better check my system then.

[RTHerringbone]

He didn't say anything did he apart from a sarcastic remark so what is your point about my point? Or is there another line to his post which has a cloaking device that can only be removed by certain individuals in the loop?

What wwfan meant is that people tend to over-egg the regularity of peculiarities in the ME.

Yes - wingers try to win corners when they shouldn't now and then, and yes, they fail to cross when they have a chance now and then (two random examples), but this isn't their default behaviour.

The tone of some posts on here implies that you can't play a game without seeing a plethora of apparently bugged events, but that perception is warped by the facts that:

a) Abbreviated highlights exacerbate the apparent frequency of these issues

b) Bugs by definition are bugs - they stand out due to their unnatural appearance and therefore feature in those highlights

What I don't read many posts about are all the passages of play in every single match which are terrific to watch, and represent an extremely good simulation of football. Strange that.

[Beestonite]

What wwfan meant is that people tend to over-egg the regularity of peculiarities in the ME.

Yes - wingers try to win corners when they shouldn't now and then, and yes, they fail to cross when they have a chance now and then (two random examples), but this isn't their default behaviour.

The tone of some posts on here implies that you can't play a game without seeing a plethora of apparently bugged events, but that perception is warped by the facts that:

a) Abbreviated highlights exacerbate the apparent frequency of these issues

b) Bugs by definition are bugs - they stand out due to their unnatural appearance and therefore feature in those highlights

What I don't read many posts about are all the passages of play in every single match which are terrific to watch, and represent an extremely good simulation of football. Strange that.

The last time I checked, not seeing the wood for the trees didn't have the meaning you're describing. It means you are generally unable to understand a basic concept because you worry too much about the details. Nothing to do with over egging. I simply stated that his post wasn't helpful. I would guess it could incur an infraction if a mere mortal was using that tone.

I do pick up on sarcasm, I did say that people exaggerate on here too (see my other post), so yes I am well aware of what is occurring here. Please see milnerpoint who doesn't seem to be.

For what it's worth (as you don't seem to have read my other post), I agreed with what you said....

Edit:

[oguzcan11]

do you think I could create a new long-career game at the moment? Or should I wait for the new patch? What do you think guys?

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Another thing I noticed is that under 14.1.3 the 3D games ran like a dream on my lap top, but under 14.1.4 they can get a bit choppy. I suspect it is something in my machine, but perhaps someone else has noticed it too?

Weird, I better check my system then.

You could try this: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/376320-14.1.4-Demo.-Graphics-Quality-quot-Recommended-for-this-PC-quot-over-optimistic

[RTHerringbone]

The last time I checked, not seeing the wood for the trees didn't have the meaning you're describing. It means you are generally unable to understand a basic concept because you worry too much about the details.

I have a similar interpretation, but interpret that interpretation differently!

I think it is where someone is unable to understand what is important in a situation because they are giving too much attention to details.

So, if someone sees a highlight of a possible bug, they (wrongly) interpret that to be "the norm" as it has no context, but this isn't really worth debating, is it?

[CactusC]

You could try this: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/376320-14.1.4-Demo.-Graphics-Quality-quot-Recommended-for-this-PC-quot-over-optimistic

Thanks, I tried just that a little while ago and it got better but still gets choppy after a few games. I guess I will have to go to Low or see if something is running in the background.

[Beestonite]

I have a similar interpretation, but interpret that interpretation differently!

I think it is where someone is unable to understand what is important in a situation because they are giving too much attention to details.

So, if someone sees a highlight of a possible bug, they (wrongly) interpret that to be "the norm" as it has no context, but this isn't really worth debating, is it?

Better than some of the conversations on here! But I take your point...

For what it's worth I don't agree with all the bashing. I generally do agree with wwfan that a lot of people either don't understand how to use the tactics or simply can't be bothered to do anything at all with them, then complain when they don't get results. I just thought his comment was poor.

[RTHerringbone]

I just thought his comment was poor.

I thought it was simply direct.

Some people take a long time saying stuff (me), some people are more concise.

There was nothing curt about that comment in my eyes, it was just a matter of fact statement.

[Dagenham_Dave]

I think decision making just needs to be quicker and more intelligent when attacking, and that more players need to support attacks, earlier.

Then what happpens is people will start complaining again that defenders don't stop crosses, wingers are too overpowered etc etc.

I daresay this'll be why no other company even attempts a football management game of this depth, it must be next to impossible to get right.

Personally, I think wing play is generally fine just now. I do see perhaps too many occasions where two defenders immediately run towards the winger, which is then leaving another attacker more free in a dangerous position. The occasions when I've seen the winger pass back to the midfield rather than cross into the box seem to mostly be the right decision. Either he's no space to cross or everyone is marked in the box. Very occassionally is there a situation where a cross would be the better option, but I like the way it's not robotic enough that the cross automatically happens all the time if there's a man free, however frustrating it can be if it's your own team.

I watch nearly all games on 2D classic now, so perhaps I'm just not seeing the animation issues which can cloud judgement on the actual engine, but watching the games this way with this current build of the engine is a very rewarding experience right now.

[Beestonite]

I thought it was simply direct.

Some people take a long time saying stuff (me), some people are more concise.

There was nothing curt about that comment in my eyes, it was just a matter of fact statement.

I guess this is simply a case of agreeing to disagree! Nothing wrong with that.

[jc1]

Thanks, I tried just that a little while ago and it got better but still gets choppy after a few games. I guess I will have to go to Low or see if something is running in the background.

Could be your processor is over heating, try using a fan underneath if it's a laptop, that's what I have, makes a difference.

[MrPompey]

I just wish SI would give some indication on a tuesday or wednesday to say if a update is likely that week or not, no pressure on them for future dates or anything like that, then we can move on to the next week with what we have.

OK...Assume there is NO update until an announcement is made to the contrary

[CactusC]

Could be your processor is over heating, try using a fan underneath if it's a laptop, that's what I have, makes a difference.

Yeah, it does get quite warm and the internal fans are going full speed as well. Thanks for the tip.

[Beestonite]

Another thing I noticed is that under 14.1.3 the 3D games ran like a dream on my lap top, but under 14.1.4 they can get a bit choppy. I suspect it is something in my machine, but perhaps someone else has noticed it too?

The majority of the time my laptop runs fine on my knee, then when it gets a bit hot the graphics get choppy like you describe. You can buy cooling trays with fans built in as another post suggested. I'm going to give it a go as they're quite cheap and will probably stop me getting a red rash on my legs after a full night of FM!

[CactusC]

I watch nearly all games on 2D classic now, so perhaps I'm just not seeing the animation issues which can cloud judgement on the actual engine, but watching the games this way with this current build of the engine is a very rewarding experience right now.

I think this is very true. Many of the frustrations probably come from the depiction of the ME rather than the ME itself.

[oguzcan11]

do you think I could create a new long-career game at the moment? Or should I wait for the new patch? What do you think guys?

[Guest El Payaso]

For me when the ME works as it should do

It depends on where you compare it. I agree that the match engine is quite balanced at the moment, at least in the lower leagues. But it doesn't look like real football.

I told earlier that I tried playing one game in La Liga and couldn't even finish the first half of my first match as I got 24 corner kicks and superb unstoppable runs from Markel Susaeta who is a good player but nothing super-human like Lionel Messi for example.

It's been like this for years; you can rely too much in individual efforts when your players are on mood of playing well. In these occasions wingers are making these strong runs, your players clear the ball to your own players instead of opponents and the game is really enjoyable to watch but once the bad day comes... For example if you're playing against a bigger side away, the game often looks so frustrating; your players are clearing the ball either out of the play or straight to the opposition. Simply said; not even trying to play even though they would be able to do that.

Sometimes there are these really enjoyable games where both teams try to play in the way they are instructed to. I just had a great away game against Ebbsfleet where they completely dominated the possession and calmly tried to break down my deep sitting defence line and my team hit them a few times with beautiful counter attacks. Won the game 2-1 with best defensive effort that I've seen so far with this update.

All of the games should be more like this one; both teams trying to play but one of the teams simply being better or more lucky.

I see people complaining about missed one on ones all the time, but for me the main problem is that those one on ones are far too common in the game. You don't see too many breakaways in real football. Especially in top leagues goals are often scored from half-chances with good finishing. Look at last two Premier league rounds; loads of long shot goals and good amount of goals even though there really haven't been that many clear cut chances on those games.

[MrPompey]

The majority of the time my laptop runs fine on my knee, then when it gets a bit hot the graphics get choppy like you describe. You can buy cooling trays with fans built in as another post suggested. I'm going to give it a go as they're quite cheap and will probably stop me getting a red rash on my legs after a full night of FM!

The cheapest option may be to use 2 pencils/small lego bricks to lift the back of the laptop of the work surface its resting on. Try that and see if that makes any diffference first before investing in something more expensive

[jc1]

OK...Assume there is NO update until an announcement is made to the contrary

Have we not just had an update, why would we get another so soon, people need to be more patient and look at their tactics 1st.

Yes it aint perfect but tell me which game was, they've all had wee bugs etc but SI get it to as good as they can. I loved FM12 but was maybe too easy, I didn't like FM13 but was reasonably playable, since last update, the game is a lot better to play apart from couple of little things.

[Beestonite]

I think this is very true. Many of the frustrations probably come from the depiction of the ME rather than the ME itself.

I think you're right, but the ME can be very misleading and it does need sorting. For example, the amount of times I have had a deflection without it being acknowledged is very annoying. A clear deflection is totally different to a screamer from 30 yards, yet the commentary says 'struck from 30 yards!!' with no mention of the deflection at all. Why have the ME representing a deflection and then not recognise it? There are many more anomalies like this which are frustrating and have been in the game for years.

What's that they say about food? If it looks appealing you eat it, if it doesn't it can taste great but we're not going to touch it, or generally something like that. I guess that could translate to this, if it looked as it should then we'd be happy.

[MrPompey]

The options are to wait for the final update next year for FM 2014; or just get started now and enjoy the game.

DB change aside, the patches are save game compatible.