FM 14: Sliders gone, thoughts?

[KDR]

I agree entirely about the uncertainty, but it doesn't change the fact that a manager KNOWS what he has told a player to do. Whether he does it or not is a separate issue altogether, and irrelevant to my point. There isn't a manager in the world who watches the sub he brought on continually run to the byline and cross low and then says "Ah, I guess I told him to do that." He KNOWS EXACTLY what he told him to do, that can't be debated.

This element of it seems totally backward. There shouldn't be uncertainty about your instructions. The uncertainty should come from whether or not the players can/will execute the instructions, whether the instructions are the right ones for the situation, how the opponent will respond to the instructions, etc. Not because the manager doesn't know what he has said to the players, it's absurd to suggest that. Realistic? No.

I'm not asking for the sliders back, but what I think is essential is a very detailed explanation and assessment of what SI mean by all of their terms such as False 9 and Regista, and what those archetypal roles actually do. If I have to play the game with no way of knowing what I have told a player to do bar watching him perform, then something is wrong. Perhaps this should go in the manual thread.

I am totally with you on your point about removing stats for players, long time wish of mine.

I didn't (and wouldn't) say the manager doesn't know what he's said (though we could argue about whether a manager really knows what he wants, which is a different thing), just that what he says and what the player does (due to his (mis-)understanding of the instruction) are apt to be different. Sliders made it too precise - it was micro-management to the nth degree and you never get that IRL. There's no ideal way to simulate a player misunderstanding, and hopefully there's some new way of issuing more precise/nuanced instructions, but it's generally a step in the right direction. It could/should also add something to the language barrier problem - though I speak two languages to intermediate level besides English, have a relatively basic proficiency in five more, and am at an absolute beginner level in another three (hello, goodbye, please, and so on). As far as I know, FM still won't allow me to add French and German plus 5 of the others as 'basic whatever' even though it'd help in the game. I guess the reason for that is that people would cheat, claiming they spoke a dozen languages when they're actually monolingual. Short of adding a foreign language test module, though, what's to do?

Anyway, uncertainty is fine provided it's done in a 'good' way, i.e. you've added your specific instruction (cross from deep, say), changed personal creative freedom to low (I'd prefer to see instructions like 'stay back', etc, rather than a high/med/low drop-down for stuff like this), told the player to aim for heads/cross high. That way you'd know exactly what the player was supposed to do, so if he didn't do it...why not? Poor technique/crossing? A scuffed attempt?

Reasons would need to be clear from commentary, but player personality type could also play a larger role.

As for the new roles...I'm hoping that there'll be some fairly in-depth explanation of what the role is for and what you might reasonably expect. The rest will be down to the player (Rooney being a different kind of 'false 10/shadow striker' than Fellaini, and so on).

I think there'll be a lot of heads being scratched and general frustration, so SI really need to make things clear from within the game.

But all of this is more or less what you said and is actually what I originally meant.

[Craglyboy]

No manager decides whether to buy a player based on 1-20 attributes either though.

you think they don't give any quantitative values to players to assess their ability?

It would be nice if there was a more dynamic system but the way they do it now works very well and I'm sure will be continually improved.

[Soccer]

If there's no sliders, how do we:

- Define how deep/wide/fast we want our team to play?

- Define the individual player's allowed creativity limits?

- Give specific instructions on whether we want our player to have slightly more attacking mindset, cross from deep/byline and such?

- Implement time-wasting (more or less of it)?

[HUNT3R]

If there's no sliders, how do we:

- Define how deep/wide/fast we want our team to play?

- Define the individual player's allowed creativity limits?

- Give specific instructions on whether we want our player to have slightly more attacking mindset, cross from deep/byline and such?

- Implement time-wasting (more or less of it)?

- Your starting strategy will provide the base of your width and tempo. Then there are shouts or Team Instructions that control it. "Play Narrower" "Play Wider" for width. There seems to be Instructions for tempo too, to raise or lower it. ."Higher Tempo" is visible in the Match Day video.

- I don't think you can alter Creative Freedom for individuals. You should still be able to do it in the Team Instructions for the team. The alternative is to give that player a role that will require less freedom, say from a playmaker to a central midfielder.

- More attacking mindset? Mentality? That's thinking in slider terms and it is something we're moving away from. You can change his duty or alter his RFD or the risks he takes with his passes. Crossing settings can be altered on the player instructions screen.

- Change to a more defensive strategy, like RL managers would.

Hope this helps.

[La s]

Just want to gain some clarity regarding on all this.

Will individual player instructions still be available? I know sliders have gone, but will we still have the individual player instructions to use? I.e. setting GK distribution to defender collect etc?

I can't see why SI would ever get rid of these instructions ever? Whist I semi-agree with the getting rid of the sliders.

[HUNT3R]

Just want to gain some clarity regarding on all this.

Will individual player instructions still be available? I know sliders have gone, but will we still have the individual player instructions to use? I.e. setting GK distribution to defender collect etc?

I can't see why SI would ever get rid of these instructions ever? Whist I semi-agree with the getting rid of the sliders.

Player Instructions are still available. We don't know all the instructions yet. Watch the Match Day video if you can. There are plenty of settings that we can change in the player instruction screen.

[RTHerringbone]

Just want to gain some clarity regarding on all this.

Will individual player instructions still be available? I know sliders have gone, but will we still have the individual player instructions to use? I.e. setting GK distribution to defender collect etc?

I can't see why SI would ever get rid of these instructions ever? Whist I semi-agree with the getting rid of the sliders.

Player Instructions remain, they are just via a new menu based screen rather than a slider based screen.

There will just be fewer increments of change (not notches 1-20 any more).

@ Soccer - the Video Blog that first showed the Team Instructions panel showed "Player More Risky Passes" and "Play Fewer Risky Passes", which effectively equates to Creative Freedom. Everything else HUNT3R says is spot on.

Here's the video blog, which is pretty old now so may not represent the state of the pre-Release Beta when it comes out:

[sjm]

Thanks for the video link, that makes things a lot clearer.

[grade]

I for one don't really care if the sliders were gone. I was more upset (took about 2 minutes to get over it) the arrows in tactics are now officially gone then the sliders.

I pretty much use the same three basic tatics and rotate them between them to fit the match I'm playing. It is basically one attacking tactic, one more control tactic (to defend a result, by controlling the ball, meaning if the other team don't have the ball they can't score) and defending Tactic focus heavily on speedy counter attacks. That for me pretty much covers all bases. It was what I pretty much did with the sliders.

By any means i didn't micromenage the sliders, didn't had the patience or time for that. I simply before a match went to my general team instructions and set up things up. I took me less then a minute to set it and of I go to the match. Win or loose that was my tactic for tha match. Sure it is a more simplistic way to set and to play, but in my own experience micromanaging a tactic during a match, even using too many shouts, means one thing, and only one thing for me, loosing the match. It goes without fail. For me micromange equals loose the match.

So the slidders gone, doesn't really bother me. I will miss the arrows, though, but oh well time to move forward.

But also I learn to treat these changes in FM a bit lighthearted, because coming next year a few features, including tactics, will evolve and improve, but also at the end of the day, FM is basically a computer game and should be treated as such.

[x42bn6]

Much more detailed and realistic, IMO. (Next step would be to lose the stats in favour of a more realistic system, i.e. 'Walcott's very quick' or 'His greatest strength is his pace' rather than 'Pace:18 Acceleration: 20'. Equally, you need to be able to point out deficiencies - using Walcott again, his vision isn't always the greatest, his crossing is inconsistent to say the least, and his finishing, while occasionally very accurate and powerful, too often leaves something to be desired (when he's hot, he's hot; when he's not...).

By stating such things boldly, in words rather than more ambiguous stat ratings, would it create too big a risk from a legal standpoint?

The problem with this is that it is implicitly compared with something that is vague. For example, is Walcott's finishing in your example is possibly being compared to a top-class forward in his peer group, your team, the league, or the world? With youngsters, for example, you could end up with a lot of descriptions like "X is a rubbish finisher [implicitly compared with Messi]" (but this is largely because he's not developed fully yet).

It also means that players with the same description cannot easily be distinguished. If you had two Bébés, but one was a better crosser, you wouldn't be able to find out who is the better crosser - you just know both of them are rubbish at crossing.

Conflating the sliders and numerical nature of attributes isn't helpful. A numerical scale is perfectly fine for attributes, and is superior to wordy, vague descriptions. A numerical scale helps you judge the, say, the crossing ability of Nani vs. Valencia vs. Young vs. Bébé; judge the magnitude of the difference in ability (i.e. say Nani > Valencia > Young >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bébé); and you can also baseline these attributes versus various other groups to see where they stand in the world (i.e. compare Valencia's crossing against other players of his ability, or the league, or the world). We would naturally think of this as a scale, anyway (although perhaps not with actual numbers - maybe bar graphs - although you really don't want to put a ruler to your screen to figure out if Nani is a better crosser than Valencia). One argument could be made around the granularity and scale of the numbers, but the underlying usage of numbers isn't being debated in that sense.

Sliders are a perfectly-viable UI component where used appropriately - an example would be the brightness slider for a colour on a drawing program, where you might want full control over the brightness and 256 worded descriptions would be a stupid way of doing it. Where sliders have issues is in what it communicates and the "slider language" is a barrier that needs to be understood.

A slider, for example, would be a possible component to tinker with how far up the pitch the defensive line should be, although it has the barriers of "slider language" and "what is 10", and it has a knock-on effect on other tactical elements. However, does this mean you need to use a slider as this construct? Does a drop-down list of words really make it any better? How about reference points? There is a reason why you might want to tell your players to push up a little ("there's a chasm of space between you and that forward - give him less room, lads!" ==> a possible UI construct would be a slider with a red line denoting said forward on it, so you could position the slider appropriately; or an option to automatically change the defensive line depending on the forward's position ("follow him around"); etc.).

So I think an approach like "all sliders are bad" doesn't really make sense - all UI components and designs, including sliders, are perfectly fine as long as they are appropriately-used. Sliders may well be the best way for many use-cases. However, sliders as used in FM are a barrier to many, and "cross-slider" implications are even harder to understand (i.e. "push up" may make no sense with very long passing). In fact, I'd go one step further and say that the vast majority of people who have used the sliders have made at least one mistake in their tactics, although it is perfectly reasonable to assume they may have found some slider tactic (and methodology to manipulate it when circumstances change) that "works".

[KDR]

x42bn6: It would need a lot of thought and effort to make it workable - as does/has the removal of tactical sliders. Stats will probably disappear eventually, but I'd agree that for now they are the best option. As for the kids appearing to be useless compared to the squad/division average...again, it'd need a lot of thought for it to work properly. A proper coach's report comparing him to his peers, sitting alongside something like the current system of the level coaches and scouts reckon the player can reach, might be useful.

Good point about the use of a slider to set the D-line. High/Normal/Deep will provide three stages when you might prefer them to be somewhere between Normal/High or Normal/Deep. As for players...you can already issue Close Down and Tight Marking instructions. A specific man-marking instruction (with other instructions also set to suit) would see him followed around a denied space, so these things already exist (and work) within the game.

Overall though it's about making FM as close to RL as possible. Switching from stats would increase the frequency of us getting decisions wrong, but would also make thorough in-game research of potential new signings and youth players a real necessity (as opposed to now, where you can take a punt based on nothing more than a report card and a look at his stats). But, if the 'Full Fat' game does go statless at some point, the Classic mode should keep them (and the Classic mode should also be expanded so you can play with more leagues) - or maybe there could be an option along the lines of the 'classic tactics' switch so you could select a stats-based approach if you preferred.

[Bobble2002]

maybe i am wrong but the tactics set are basically a form of slider and telling players to IE play wider is a form of adjusting the slider .

I just hope this year that you can set your tactics to have shouts pre implemented at the start of a match in your tactics setup . Say maybe wanting your players to always get stuck in from the off and not having to set them every time just before the match . it always annoys me that you have to set that every time .

[KDR]

I just hope this year that you can set your tactics to have shouts pre implemented at the start of a match in your tactics setup . Say maybe wanting your players to always get stuck in from the off and not having to set them every time just before the match . it always annoys me that you have to set that every time .

You can. You can also save multiple presets and set player starting instructions, all from within the Tactics screen.

[Mattias333]

Like all things of this sort ill reserve judgement until i've played. Im slightly concerned as myself personally have very limited game time to play with my 1st child birth, work, real life football etc....for the last couple of editions of FM ive been forced to play games on fastest settings as text only with only replays of goals set. I've neglected to use shouts for this reason. So im slightly worried how my experience of the game will be effected by this. However ill certainly give it a go and pray my enjoyment isnt ruined. I simply dont have the time to watch even key highlights (as much as id love to watch matches fully etc.)

[TOUGHGUY]

After a quick glance or two, almost everything is as expected. Chiefly the lack of actual descriptions and explanations of what the various instructions do. What good is an option saying that it will do "more X than default" when we do not know what the default is. Or "this will make the players do Y" – which players, and how much, and so on...

Though the inclusion of more than just two options for defensive line and tempo is pleasant. This is so annoying, the inclusion of presumably tested and relative (as opposed to sliders) and non game breaking and realistic concepts and commands is such a good thing, a step in the right direction, yet it is all undermined and made frustrating by not giving the player the necessary information.

[soccer.joel]

I was disappointed before but I like the new system

[QWERTYOP]

I didn't want to comment until I'd tried the new way.

A real culture shock. But, like much of the rest of the game, they've clearly gone out of their way to try to make something that was too fiddly before a lot more straight forward. And I very much applaud that. I'm still trying to work out how I do some things now though. How do I get my team to waste time now for example? Are ALL the things you could do on the old slider system incorporated into the new options?

Overall, I like the new method. It's simpler & less fiddly which is something that they seem to have tried (very well IMO) to incorporate throughout the whole game. It's just going to take getting used to. At the moment, it doesn't really feel like I have control over what my players do like I did before. It kinda just feels like I select my team and send them out to play. Having said that, that probably just speaks volumes for how much simpler the new system is and how little time you need to spend on setting your team up compared to the old way.

Will take getting used to, but I like it.

[Mattias333]

Have any of you used the new shout system while viewing matches on fastest setting and replays of goals only? how have you found it? Nervous lol

[RTHerringbone]

How do I get my team to waste time now for example?

Time wasting continues to be linked to Team Strategy.

More time wasting in the lower defensive end of the scale; less at the higher attacking end.

It makes sense, because if you're trying to see out a game or just Park The Bus generally, wasting as much time as possible is a good idea.

Conversely, if you're chasing a result, or just an aggressive attacking team, time wasting serves no purpose.

[QWERTYOP]

Time wasting continues to be linked to Team Strategy.

More time wasting in the lower defensive end of the scale; less at the higher attacking end.

It makes sense, because if you're trying to see out a game or just Park The Bus generally, wasting as much time as possible is a good idea.

Conversely, if you're chasing a result, or just an aggressive attacking team, time wasting serves no purpose.

So you're saying it's basically automatic now depending on how you play and what the score is? If so, that's entirely fair enough, makes perfect sense, and carries on what seems to be the theme running through this years game of making things that were too fiddly before, much simpler.

--EDIT--

The "contain" strategy specifically mentions time wasting. Fair enough. Having it on a slider was probably pointless anyway. Certainly for me, you either had it on full or empty.

In that case, another great move, guys.

[HUNT3R]

The descriptions for what each role seems well put and gave me a good understanding of what each role will do. There is enough player instructions to get a player to do what I want him to. Big thumbs up from me.

[milnerpoint]

Yeah i have to say, its a great improvement, it really makes things more logical, and easier to understand. Without the sliders its just much quicker to make a tactic, or change a tactic, and it all just seems to flow much quicker.

[Svenc]

I simply dont have the time to watch even key highlights (as much as id love to watch matches fully etc.)

Holiday or let the assistant do the on-pitch stuff and get an instant result in classic. You appear to have little interest in what has to be a core area of the game. As such any assistant will do better. I think ypu can even tweak match plans now and hand it to him prior.

[guspjmh]

So overall, 1/3 of people are disappointed at the loss of sliders; why not keep them then? It doesn't impact those who dislike them's game experience.

I like to quantify tactics in a 'scientific' way. This is impossible with instructions or shouts.

[QWERTYOP]

So overall, 1/3 of people are disappointed at the loss of sliders; why not keep them then? It doesn't impact those who dislike them's game experience.

I like to quantify tactics in a 'scientific' way. This is impossible with instructions or shouts.

Which means two thirds are not. And that number will undoubtedly grow as more people get used to the new way.

[milnerpoint]

So overall, 1/3 of people are disappointed at the loss of sliders; why not keep them then? It doesn't impact those who dislike them's game experience.

I like to quantify tactics in a 'scientific' way. This is impossible with instructions or shouts.

Based on what?

[wez007]

After having a good few hours playing around with the settings im starting to really enjoy it. I do however think that a guide is seriously needed at some point, im an old hat of FM and im confused so god knows what the new guys must be thinking.

[RTHerringbone]

Based on what?

Combining poll responses 1 and 3 together.

The poll is inherently flawed as it was started prior to us getting a chance to test it.

What will be interesting to see is a similar poll a month or so after release date, as that will give a more balanced and informed result.

From the responses I've seen on the forums, it is generally well received.

[milnerpoint]

Combining poll responses 1 and 2 together.

The poll is inherently flawed as it was started prior to us getting a chance to test it.

What will be interesting to see is a similar poll a month or so after release date, as that will give a more balanced and informed result.

From the responses I've seen on the forums, it is generally well received.

Haha damn you, you stole my point! I was gonna say this was before the beta came out.

[Svenc]

So overall, 1/3 of people are disappointed at the loss of sliders; why not keep them then? It doesn't impact those who dislike them's game experience.

Because this isn´t a cosmetic change but one in fundamental design. The me is now based around concepts rather than an infinite and random number of slider tweaks. Roles and strategies etc. are now an inherent part of the code, can be adressed as such and tweaked. Ideally this makes for more diverse play. Si have always said they wanted the roles to be far more distinguishable in-match.

Also, by evidence, roughly 1 in 1000000000 Fm players really 100% got the sliders due to their abstract nature and combinations making conundrums. In fact, wwfan himself claimed in 2008ish not knowing exactly what each of them does woould be of benefit. A notion I strongly disagree with. Ambiguity in tactics should come from players reacting differently within match context, not the manager not quite knowing what he is actually instructin.

[HUNT3R]

Yeah i have to say, its a great improvement, it really makes things more logical, and easier to understand. Without the sliders its just much quicker to make a tactic, or change a tactic, and it all just seems to flow much quicker.

I am sure it is still a problem for people thinking in slider terms.

When I started up FM14, I took my time reading role descriptions etc and I must say, everything is more logical. Once you forget that the sliders ever existed and think logically, it makes a lot more sense.

Only thing I am struggling with, is the swap position button, but I made a new thread for that.

[HUNT3R]

Because this isn´t a cosmetic change but one in fundamental design. The me is now based around concepts rather than an infinite and random number of slider tweaks. Roles and strategies etc. are now an inherent part of the code, can be adressed as such and tweaked. Ideally this makes for more diverse play. Si have always said they wanted the roles to be far more distinguishable in-match.

Also, by evidence, roughly 1 in 1000000000 Fm players really 100% got the sliders due to their abstract nature and combinations making conundrums. In fact, wwfan himself claimed in 2008ish not knowing exactly what each of them does woould be of benefit. A notion I strongly disagree with. Ambiguity in tactics should come from players reacting differently within match context, not the manager not quite knowing what he is actually instructin.

+1

There should be a like/thanks button!

[RTHerringbone]

Only thing I am struggling with, is the swap position button, but I made a new thread for that.

I'll try and find an answer to this one, it is bugging me too.

[HUNT3R]

I'll try and find an answer to this one, it is bugging me too.

Much appreciated.

[milnerpoint]

See i have been trying to use the "Wide players swap" function, but it didnt seem to do very much......Not unless they swapped when there were no highlights, and swapped back each time there was a highlight, which i guess is possible.

I spent a bit of time (for the 1st in a while i might add) reading all the tool tips, especially for the roles, they really make choosing what you want easier, i think if that was only in a manual i probably would never have read the descriptions, the way its set up makes life so easy.

Also the fact that it tells you the shouts that counter or conflict with each other is another really good step. Should save people making horror tactics that cause nothing but issues.

[higgins]

Combining poll responses 1 and 3 together.

The poll is inherently flawed as it was started prior to us getting a chance to test it.

What will be interesting to see is a similar poll a month or so after release date, as that will give a more balanced and informed result.

From the responses I've seen on the forums, it is generally well received.

Mainly cause a lot of users answered before the game was out.

[RTHerringbone]

Mainly cause a lot of users answered before the game was out.

Hmm, yes

It'll be a proportionate affliction though

[SmurfDude]

After the addition of FMC, the removal of sliders and introduction of instructions is my favourite feature of FM in years. I actually want to spend time on tactics for a change, instead of seeing tactics as a chore as I previously did

[Mattias333]

Holiday or let the assistant do the on-pitch stuff and get an instant result in classic. You appear to have little interest in what has to be a core area of the game. As such any assistant will do better. I think ypu can even tweak match plans now and hand it to him prior.

Its not the fact I have little interest in the core area of the game as your accused. I certainly have a great deal of interest. Just not everyone has the time to devote souly to FM that others do. If I watched the game slowly, on 3d with more than key highlights, it take me personally over a month to progress a week (maybe exaggerating but you get the point).

Despite viewing on fastest speed as commentary only I wouldnt class it as instant result etc...As I read every word, view the instant stats and assist comments. Im always able to act on every happening in a game and change things for the better (or at least try turn a match) just as you would watching the whole thing.

My whole point is just i've always made these changes via the slidders not shouts and wanted an opinion from the many people who like me dont have the time to be able to watch nearly all the match on 3d etc on how they've found the change from slidders to shouts.

[QWERTYOP]

I think the thing i'm most impressed with about the new way is how they've managed to combine what is both a simpler AND more true to life way of doing things. How do roles and tactics work in the real world? Verbal communication - "Hey Mr Left-back - I want you to do this, this, and this. I DON'T want you to do this, this and this". And the new way is much closer to that.

For those reasons alone, hats off to the folks behind this. A culture shock to people used to the old way? Of course. But I honestly think a few years down the road, we'll laugh that we ever used to fiddle around with the old way of doing things.

[Svenc]

My whole point is just i've always made these changes via the slidders not shouts and wanted an opinion from the many people who like me dont have the time to be able to watch nearly all the match on 3d etc on how they've found the change from slidders to shouts.

My bad. You appear to be struggling with "learning" to play the game differently, then. Because that doesn't make sense. Trying to influence a match via shouts etc. is but a click of the mouse, same as reverting such. The same done in sliders takes a lot more time, as you had to tweak players individually, multiple individual instructions each. You don't have to excessively micro-tweak and change course a dozen times throughout a match (a common myth is that of Fm's super ai which breezes thrugh the fm matrix and changes tactics like ten times a half each). Whilst previously those modifiers were called shouts, they're really style modifiers that could be applied prior to kick off already. Say, you have pacey attackers and had your side encouraged to "pass into space".

[Bradley21]

Sliders going is a huge positive, i can't see any downsides to them not being there at all.

[Mattias333]

My bad. You appear to be struggling with "learning" to play the game differently, then. Because that doesn't make sense. Trying to influence a match via shouts etc. is but a click of the mouse, same as reverting such. The same done in sliders takes a lot more time, as you had to tweak players individually, multiple individual instructions each. You don't have to excessively micro-tweak and change course a dozen times throughout a match (a common myth is that of Fm's super ai which breezes thrugh the fm matrix and changes tactics like ten times a half each). Whilst previously those modifiers were called shouts, they're really style modifiers that could be applied prior to kick off already. Say, you have pacey attackers and had your side encouraged to "pass into space".

agree, fully understand that. In real life when I manage my local side I dont go to my back line, move up two notches. I shout get the 'f' up! lol. Just a bit nervous about how it will transpire in FM for a total newbie to shouts like myself. Maybe I should have tried using them on FM13 etc...but I just stuck to what I knew and how I knew to get results etc. Fingers crossed all works out well when I get Fm14 around Xmas-Jan14 time.

[middlo82]

I'm glad they're gone, but not because it's simpler as the OP says. Because it's far more realistic. No manager has the ability to say to his team "I want you to play 14 out of 20 width" and neither should we.

Ha ha, I play mostly network games, and one of the lads always used sliders, me and another mate have always said its unrealistic on this basis. you can't picture Mourinho saying to Torres I want you to play 3 mouse clicks to the right when attacking running at goal!!!

glad its gone, much better being set based on individual preset instructions, probably will stop a lot of match engine exploits as well.

No manager decides whether to buy a player based on 1-20 attributes either though.

that is just a visual aid to determine how good players are at each aspect of their game, it is not unrealistic like playing a player 3 clicks further up the pitch, or giving a defender 2 clicks less creative freedom!

i much prefer the new style where if you want someone to be creative you have varying instructions you can give him. much more realistic IMO

[dan99]

probably will stop a lot of match engine exploits as well.

Although they'll never admit it, that will have been one of the main reasons SI have dropped the sliders.

[Da_Funk]

In real life when I manage my local side I dont go to my back line, move up two notches. I shout get the 'f' up! lol.

You can't put that way, at this point I can say "the whole Football Manager is very stupid. In real life I don't/can't spend my day on the pitch training with my player AND making 56 transfer offers AND renewing contracts AND talking with players AND with the media AND I have my real life". I can even say "hey I send my scout to see a player and this comes back to me FEW MINUTES LATER WITHOUT EVEN HAVING SEEN THE PLAYER PLAYING with all his stats and attributes? Probably in this time frame the player was simply eating a burger lol"

If you have a slider where you have 3 settings for moving forward/long shooting/crossing/and so on isn't it a realistic way to communicate/talking/shouting to a player to do something?

I'm glad they're gone, but not because it's simpler as the OP says. Because it's far more realistic. No manager has the ability to say to his team "I want you to play 14 out of 20 width" and neither should we.

No of course. You go to a player and say "play wider" and you're ok/fine with that. It's not that you give a degree of how much wider/narrower or, since you like so much real life examples and true life shouts, when he position himself wider you say "no a little narrower...wider than before but NOT SO wide". Or when you say to your playmaker to come deeper he asks you "like there?" how do you answer him "oh I said deeper, deeper means deeper you ***, I don't care!"

See i have been trying to use the "Wide players swap" function, but it didnt seem to do very much......Not unless they swapped when there were no highlights, and swapped back each time there was a highlight, which i guess is possible.

I remember from previous version when I used the "swap position with" that the players swapped their position for a limited time, then switched back to their default, then again switched back and so on.

[YKW]

Although they'll never admit it, that will have been one of the main reasons SI have dropped the sliders.

I don't know why you say they would never admit it, having an unexploitable game is obviously high up the list of priorities. The set piece creator and last years training changes are other examples here, where depth was sacrificed to prevent people exploiting (and other reasons, obviously).

I have a theory that the reason for this focus is because they are busy at work on the most ambitious football managing MMO project ever. Just the mere thought of this excites me hugely.

[milnerpoint]

I dont think SI have ever said that people were unable to exploit the ME, half the reason for the changes in recent years have been to stop people making unrealistic tactics that the AI couldnt cope with.

[AnonJ]

Yes. Also, on the viewers end, keep everything 1-5 so that there is a lot of variability or rather a lot of unknown.

So Basically a scouts overall grade 1-5, or 1 star - 5 stars

Strength score 1-5

Speed score 1-5

agility score 1-5

endurance score 1-5

Intelligence score 1-5

and then keep everything else hidden under the hood.

But with the 1-5 star on say, Speed, under the hood, it isn't actually 1-5. It is a higher range. So a guy has a 4 star rating, then his actual under the hood rating can be somewhere within the range of 14-17. But we will never know that actual number. And say his strength rating is 5 (or 5 stars) then under the hood, his strength rating can be anywhere between 18-20. But again, we will never know that actual number. We just know that as a 5 star for his strength, he is regarded as a top tier strength guy. SI could also expand the rating range under the hood beyond the normal 20. It could be expanded to 25, where within each 1-5 star rating, there can be a range of 5 actual pts. So it would look like this:

SPEED(out of 25):

* = 1-5

** = 6-10

*** = 11-15

**** = 16-20

***** = 21-25

or keep it out of 20 so then it would be 1-4, 5-8, 9-12, 13-16, 17-20. But again, we never know those numbers, we just know that the scout gave his speed a 3 star, so then his speed has to be somewhere in the 11-15 out of 25 range. Or rather 9-12 out of 20.

Makes sense?

And again, that would only be for the skills that can be measured in real life. Speed, strength, agility, endurance, etc. And then just keep the rest of the ratings hidden. And just use those physical attributes that were EFFICIENTLY scouted, plus the player's current form on the pitch a long with their past history or altercations, personality issues, or lack there of, leadership roles, etc...to then determine if the guy is capable of being a starter, first teamer, reserve, once in a lifetime, or a guy to avoid all together.

No that's both meaningless and undoable. Meaningless in that you basically haven't changed anything at all. It's still numeric representation, only simplified. It's not like the "shout instructions" feeling. Undoable in that even on a 1-20 scale, player abilities are not adequately represented(because in the background it's actually 1-200, if I remember correctly), not to mention 1-5. Imagine one guy with 20 finishing and one guy with 16 finishing. That's totally several levels apart.

[AnonJ]

I'm completely shocked (and happily amazed) by this poll result. It shows how a vocal minority can twist one's perception of the general feeling of the forums.

I don't get what you mean. People who like the change (I, for example) say it because it's their own independent opinion, not because they are in any manner influenced by anybody. Also I don't really believe there has been a "twist" process in which people are originally against it and now for it. If the general people were so suggestible then it would be terrible.