A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

[Lazaru5]

Well at risk of getting banned again, (even though if I was pro-steam ala Eugene I could wind up every single person who has a problem with impunity and if I was Kriss... I'd be able to let him whilst banning those he upsets with his constant deliberate ignorance)

I want to know, in minute, finite, absolute detail, every single tiny little thing that Steam would be doing on my computer whilst it is running in both online or offline mode if I were to be stupid enough to install it (I doubt anything anybody can say will convince me but we'll see..). I want to know what areas of my computer it is accessing, what data it is sharing and with whom, and why, and anything else that you're not telling us.

And I DO NOT want anybody who is not DIRECTLY related to SI, SEGA or Valve to respond to me, because you shouldn't be even be posting in this thread if you are OK with Steam... (but Kriss let's it ride...). So, can someone from SI/SEGA/Valve tell me exactly what the program does?

and don't say it's doing nothing in offline mode because if it was doing nothing it would not be using resources, AT ALL... nil ram, nil processor time, nil network time, nothing, nada, zilch! So, for once, can someone who has a bit of authority tell us the truth about what exactly we are letting ourselves in for when we install Steam (if we do)? Please?

I repeat, DO NOT REPLY IF YOU DO NOT WORK FOR SI, SEGA or Valve! Nor do I want to be clicking links, I want a direct answer to a direct question, and preferably an honest one...

[cynet]

To be honest what has hacked me of about the whole Steam situation is that Sega does not own Steam or does SI in fact, where people are stating that a lot of games are now needing internet to be activated you will find that it is done through the company what sells the game, not a third part company.

EA are now using there own Origin company to activate, purchase, etc, so why can't Sega do the same?

As for piracy it's ironic that there are Steam hacks out there where you can download all the games from a Steam library for nothing, so security is rather lame to say the least.

Can understand those who couldn't care less what they put on there computers/laptops but seeing all these years the game has been a solo platform to install the decision based upon them doing this just doesn't cut the mustard for my liking.

[Kriss]

The latest.....

Now when I shut down my laptop Steam Screenshot Manager kicks in and blocks log-off. I have to force close.

If you shut down your PC but you're still connected to Steam, the Screenshot Manager message comes up. If you log out of Steam and then shut down, you don't see the message.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

If you shut down your PC but you're still connected to Steam, the Screenshot Manager message comes up. If you log out of Steam and then shut down, you don't see the message.

The thing is Steam is not connected. It auto connects when I attempt to log out - no icon, nothing until I click log off then presto!, logo and problem!. This really is seeming like SI trying to make a pigs ear out of a dogs breakfast!

[Kriss]

Well at risk of getting banned again, (even though if I was pro-steam ala Eugene I could wind up every single person who has a problem with impunity and if I was Kriss... I'd be able to let him whilst banning those he upsets with his constant deliberate ignorance)

I want to know, in minute, finite, absolute detail, every single tiny little thing that Steam would be doing on my computer whilst it is running in both online or offline mode if I were to be stupid enough to install it (I doubt anything anybody can say will convince me but we'll see..). I want to know what areas of my computer it is accessing, what data it is sharing and with whom, and why, and anything else that you're not telling us.

And I DO NOT want anybody who is not DIRECTLY related to SI, SEGA or Valve to respond to me, because you shouldn't be even be posting in this thread if you are OK with Steam... (but Kriss let's it ride...). So, can someone from SI/SEGA/Valve tell me exactly what the program does?

and don't say it's doing nothing in offline mode because if it was doing nothing it would not be using resources, AT ALL... nil ram, nil processor time, nil network time, nothing, nada, zilch! So, for once, can someone who has a bit of authority tell us the truth about what exactly we are letting ourselves in for when we install Steam (if we do)? Please?

I repeat, DO NOT REPLY IF YOU DO NOT WORK FOR SI, SEGA or Valve! Nor do I want to be clicking links, I want a direct answer to a direct question, and preferably an honest one...

If you read the ban message you'll see it wasn't me who banned you.

If you actually want those questions answered you should ask somewhere where they can be and that's not here, but here General information: contact@valvesoftware.com

If you continue posting in this manner you'll get a permanent ban.

[Kriss]

The thing is Steam is not connected. It auto connects when I attempt to log out - no icon, nothing until I click log off then presto!, logo and problem!. This really is seeming like SI trying to make a pigs ear out of a dogs breakfast!

I think the connected there is a misnomer, it should say it's still running whether on or offline so close it before shutting down your PC. it's true you don't see anything for screenshot manager as it's not an entity on it's own but part of the Steam app.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

I think the connected there is a misnomer, it should say it's still running whether on or offline so close it before shutting down your PC. it's true you don't see anything for screenshot manager as it's not an entity on it's own but part of the Steam app.

Kriss I dont expect a reply to this but I would like to state the following:

a/ This Steam situation is not good. I keep hearing explanations that things are not working as they should, or software update issues - basically excuses for Steam not working properly all of which seem to be driving loyal Customers of many years away from this new release.

b/ There was the SI/FM Britain falling out. Im not sure I want to go into the details of that but the way it was handled ended in the FM Britain people stepping back from official FM representation BUT they were the only ones who made presentable technical sense of the awful pre-Creator slider-fest that made the pre FM10 games awkward to master.

I really do wonder at these "decisions" by SI (Sega of course I really mean!). Did someone drop the stupid bomb on SI Towers?

[Kriss]

Kriss I dont expect a reply to this but I would like to state the following:

a/ This Steam situation is not good. I keep hearing explanations that things are not working as they should, or software update issues - basically excuses for Steam not working properly all of which seem to be driving loyal Customers of many years away from this new release.

b/ There was the SI/FM Britain falling out. Im not sure I want to go into the details of that but the way it was handled ended in the FM Britain people stepping back from official FM representation BUT they were the only ones who made presentable technical sense of the awful pre-Creator slider-fest that made the pre FM10 games awkward to master.

I really do wonder at these "decisions" by SI (Sega of course I really mean!). Did someone drop the stupid bomb on SI Towers?

I agree it's not good, ideally nobody would have any issues with installing Steam or reviving an old account, however small the number of people suffering it needs addressing pronto.

To me the one downside of this is that Sega/SI will take a hit if Steam fail to produce.

It is however still nearly a month to release and I'd hope (and very much expect) that Sega/SI will be rattling cages with Steam to make sure they resolve any issues in time.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

I agree it's not good, ideally nobody would have any issues with installing Steam or reviving an old account, however small the number of people suffering it needs addressing pronto.

To me the one downside of this is that Sega/SI will take a hit if Steam fail to produce.

It is however still nearly a month to release and I'd hope (and very much expect) that Sega/SI will be rattling cages with Steam to make sure they resolve any issues in time.

Let's hope the cage rattling brings the desired result (although that should have been resolved before the DRM announcements). I once heard that the definition of insanity is repeating the same plan when it has aleady failed and expecting a different more positive outcome. We shall see....

[Kriss]

Let's hope the cage rattling brings the desired result (although that should have been resolved before the DRM announcements). I once heard that the definition of insanity is repeating the same plan when it has aleady failed and expecting a different more positive outcome. We shall see....

If we take FM09 as the reference point I don't see how it can go anyway but up tbh, that was a debacle pure and simple, in theory this should be far more efficient and effective but as you say the proof of the pudding is always in the eating.

[jptykes]

Could someone arrange for my account to be deleted. Pretty sure i'm going to have no use for it anymore.

Thanks.

[Carmi88]

that has to be the winner of biggest over reaction ever, give that man some attention

[Aim_Less]

I dont like Steam as they limit the use of your property and put files in silly and sometimes unusable locations and formats.

Could someone from SI please tell me whether all the files of the game will be accessible? I mainly ask for inserting editor files and facepacks etc. If they are accessible are they in the same location as before or hidden somewhere in steams hieroglyphics?

all files are accessible

the game will be installed on C:\programs\steam\steamapps\common

[xtradj]

already very reluctant to ever by FM again due to the poor customer service, lack of testing, and refusal to fix errors

the fact we are now forced to download steam has made my mind up

bad shout SI, game over

[The Welsh Lad]

I agree it's not good, ideally nobody would have any issues with installing Steam or reviving an old account, however small the number of people suffering it needs addressing pronto.

To me the one downside of this is that Sega/SI will take a hit if Steam fail to produce.

It is however still nearly a month to release and I'd hope (and very much expect) that Sega/SI will be rattling cages with Steam to make sure they resolve any issues in time.

I think this has become a problem becuase I would have thought that old accounts would have been archieved becuase they haven't been used, the same has your hotmail account deactivate after a prolonged period of time (I think) and Steam most prob release the update to be able to retrieve the achieved information but went wrong some where (again I think). After I downloaded steam I decided to play FM10 so had to install it, so I went through the steam route only to find it had already been registered to an old steam account I didn't bother trying to retrieve it becuase no longer use the email address. So installed it through disc. But my FM11 I installed through steam using my current email address and everything is fine I havent had any problems (touch wood).

I don't think Steam have really had to deal with this level of retrieving old accounts because the majority of people that use steam, use it regular and have bought games through them.

[Svenc]

I'm a casual Steam user. Though ideally, I'd rather like to see SI/Sega try to improve the value of their product to convince more people to actually pay, rather than diminish it - as even according to Valve's Gabe Newell, ironically perhaps, DRM measures are doing for customers. Some DRM schemes are this strict that they not only diminish the worth of a legal copy, but make pirated copies more attractive than the legal copy at the same time! In all fairness: Despite ever-rising development costs and budgets, the price tags of games have remained largely the same for like 15, 20 years now. But we're living in a throaway-society where much is being treated as a throwaway-product - and this isn't just the consumers, but those who are selling to consumers too. People don't buy music albums for their collection, they download a song for their ipod which will be one song amonst a library of thousands. On the internet, many product of quality can be had for totally free: music, articles, information, games.

Certainly the idea of value and worth that a product holds has massively shifted over the last couple of years. No, the money you pay for a game, a record or a book isn't meant to merely cover the costs of production. But people tend to be simple - I am not different, nor are you. Instead of trying to improve the value of their products (extras, service) though, publishers have the habit to further diminish said values. For most games, it makes no difference whatsoever whether you just got them onto your hard drive by whichever means - or whether you actually paid for them. Physically, extras that used to be comparably common during the 90s (entertaining documenations, maps, posters) have been made the stock of more expensive collector's editions, and even with hit game's like Half Life 2, all you get "out of the box" is a DVD, a flimsy DVD-case, a rushed cover artwork and a printed EULA - that's it. It is something meant to be thrown away immediately. Not that FM ever did hold anything special inside (imagine SI teaming up with a writer astute in football tactics - or offering World Cup/EURO save games for everyone registered for example), I was still surprised to see that even what little documentation the game shipped with prior was completely axed. What can be read is now put online, available for everyone. This might sound equally simple, and this might sound a tad idealist, but you do the Maths.

[danielgear]

Downloaded steam all looks ok, actually benefits me as my disk drive is knackered and FM is only game i play on laptop so a download saves me money on buying a new drive.

End of the day i always buy the latest FM every year so i still would of bought it and after downloading steam i have no problem with it

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

I'm a casual Steam user. Though ideally, I'd rather like to see SI/Sega try to improve the value of their product to convince more people to actually pay, rather than diminish it - as even according to Valve's Gabe Newell, ironically perhaps, DRM measures are doing for customers. Some DRM schemes are this strict that they not only diminish the worth of a legal copy, but make pirated copies more attractive than the legal copy at the same time! In all fairness: Despite ever-rising development costs and budgets, the price tags of games have remained largely the same for like 15, 20 years now. But we're living in a throaway-society where much is being treated as a throwaway-product - and this isn't just the consumers, but those who are selling to consumers too. People don't buy music albums for their collection, they download a song for their ipod which will be one song amonst a library of thousands. On the internet, many product of quality can be had for totally free: music, articles, information, games.

Certainly the idea of value and worth that a product holds has massively shifted over the last couple of years. No, the money you pay for a game, a record or a book isn't meant to merely cover the costs of production. But people tend to be simple - I am not different, nor are you. Instead of trying to improve the value of their products (extras, service) though, publishers have the habit to further diminish said values. For most games, it makes no difference whatsoever whether you just got them onto your hard drive by whichever means - or whether you actually paid for them. Physically, extras that used to be comparably common during the 90s (entertaining documenations, maps, posters) have been made the stock of more expensive collector's editions, and even with hit game's like Half Life 2, all you get "out of the box" is a DVD, a flimsy DVD-case, a rushed cover artwork and a printed EULA - that's it. It is something meant to be thrown away immediately. Not that FM ever did hold anything special inside (imagine SI teaming up with a writer astute in football tactics - or offering World Cup/EURO save games for everyone registered for example), I was still surprised to see that even what little documentation the game shipped with prior was completely axed. What can be read is now put online, available for everyone. This might sound equally simple, and this might sound a tad idealist, but you do the Maths.

I have always thought that to give a giveaway within the game packaging for something that game players would really want (maybe an unforgeable voucher for a tactics notebook or something) would be the way to ensure purchase rather than resorting to "intelectual theft" of the product. Those who go the pirated route would then only be those who would never purchase for £30 anyway ensuring minimal losses due to snide copies. Nowadays digital downloads have made that an antiquated ideal so it is literally too late to action that. The 10 year + players of SI's footy games will recall (CM00/01 springs to mind) a colourful fold out poster which detailed all the Leagues in the game with game rules etc, a lovely touch but as I said that ship has sailed now.

A note to Steam, if I had smoothly opened my Steam account on Friday, and had no log on problems yesterday(instead of all the issues I did experience eventually getting the account set up & partially operational) you would now have my pre-order or a least a £30 payment to my Steam wallet, instead I am going to suck and see with the demo download.

I am starting to suspect that those who made the Steam activation decision are furious that this weekends problems have occurred, they have been made to look incompetent at best. Would love to have been a fly on the wall when the decision makers realised Steam had (at least in the short term) sold them a pup.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Downloaded steam all looks ok, actually benefits me as my disk drive is knackered and FM is only game i play on laptop so a download saves me money on buying a new drive.

End of the day i always buy the latest FM every year so i still would of bought it and after downloading steam i have no problem with it

I honestly hope come 21st October we have all come around to this view. Right now I am not convinced.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Here's a possible contender for Kriss' "Murphy's Law" list;

What 's the worst thing that could go wrong with this kind of exclusive DRM method? A bug in the game that prevents activation perhaps! No, that's unthinkable, everyone knows that software is subject to rigorous testing and never contains bugs.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Here's a possible contender for Kriss' "Murphy's Law" list;

What 's the worst thing that could go wrong with this kind of exclusive DRM method? A bug in the game that prevents activation perhaps! No, that's unthinkable, everyone knows that software is subject to rigorous testing and never contains bugs.

Or a bug in the game that bypasses DRM totally making the game playable without disk and without activation, and which then hosts the game for anyone to access & play free whilst spamming all of facebook to advertise this effective freebie. Just trying to see positive outcomes! :-)

[danielgear]

I honestly hope come 21st October we have all come around to this view. Right now I am not convinced.

I think alot of people who are complaining are just dubious about a new 3rd party programme.

But i've downloaded it and it all looks fine. It looks like a game version of itunes and im sure alot of people have that on their computer

[da_melonuk]

Hello to one and all,

I have a few quick questions about the install and activation proccedure for FM12,

1) Can I still buy the hardcopy in the shops, as I have every copy of Championship Manager (that SI made) and Football Managers all lined up in order on shelf ?

2) If the answer to above question is Yes, then I would have to install it on my pc and then activate it via Steam ?

3) Can I also install the same copy on my laptop and use it on there afterwards, as I have done with FM11 which used a Key that was printed on the

back of the bookletso I can take it with me when I go away with work and have to stop in boring hotel rooms ?

Thanks for getting back to me,

[danielgear]

yes to all 3 but u will need steam on pc and laptop is the answer judging but what ive read so far

[danielgear]

you just cant play them both at same time (pc and laptop)

[Smurf]

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. You can install on it any computer, but to play it you have to be logged into Steam. As that where the activation is stored, within your Steam account.

[da_melonuk]

excellent, I have Steam running no problem on my pc at home, just need to decide if to install it on my work laptop or carry on using FM11 on that one, as so not to incur any issues with running on a work laptop !!. my work don't like things like Bit Torrent running on there laptop but don't think Steam is anything like that and will do anything to how the laptop runs, going to run it in offline mode all the time after activation anyway, so reckon it'll be fine and dandy.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

I think alot of people who are complaining are just dubious about a new 3rd party programme.

But i've downloaded it and it all looks fine. It looks like a game version of itunes and im sure alot of people have that on their computer

Some people hate iTunes, I have to say I love it. That is a very good analogy, I hope it will help me accept Steam more easily going forward.

[FM_player]

I like this new instalation system. Steam is great to play FM, 'cause install the patches automaticly and resolve crash dumps real easy

[Willy Knopper]

So let me guess, i can activate the game only once? How about if my account get stolen and i never get that back, i need to buy new game right? I know that is very rare, but things like that can still happen.

IMO game is goin wrong direction. Even i play with steam, i just dont like idea that steam activation is the only way to play.

[Scab]

Then you contact Steam support and get it recovered. If you still have control over your email account it's easy to reset your Steam password. Also, if you've activated the Steam Guard system on your Steam account, they can't even login using your user/pass without access to your email as they'd be doing so from a new computer (which needs approving via email).

[Carmi88]

So let me guess, i can activate the game only once? How about if my account get stolen and i never get that back, i need to buy new game right? I know that is very rare, but things like that can still happen.

that is what steam support is for, and the majority of people who do get hacked will get their account and games back

[Willy Knopper]

Then you contact Steam support and get it recovered. If you still have control over your email account it's easy to reset your Steam password. Also, if you've activated the Steam Guard system on your Steam account, they can't even login using your user/pass without access to your email as they'd be doing so from a new computer (which needs approving via email).

aah okay im kind newbie with steam even i have own it about 5 years lol. Still dont like idea but i can live with it.

[Egan]

Some people hate iTunes, I have to say I love it. That is a very good analogy, I hope it will help me accept Steam more easily going forward.

Well, aside from the fact that if you go to HMV and buy a new CD, you don't have to have iTunes installed to listen to it.

I'm a long time opponent of Steam. I'm fine with digital distribution and buy the few games I play as download only these days. I just really dislike Valve's creation of a new monopoly, especially as they are a company I wouldn't buy a game from (no interest in anything I've seen them produce,) and I resent being forced to use their software to play a title that has nothing to do with them - regardless of whether I can play it in some off-line mode. None of the supposed benefits of Steam interest me either. But, well, what does what I think matter as long as Valve make their buck? I'm coming around to the idea I'm going to have to use it some day or give up PC gaming altogether. It doesn't make me very happy.

[Smurf]

Monopoly suggests they are the only company doing this.

EA run their own called Origin.

Where these clients can help with online gamers where some cheat, these clients attempt to prevent that. And they also hope to delay piracy issues. Having to do online gaming through the clients means that pirated versions of the software may not be able to join in online.

I can see the importance of SI using a client like Steam to authenticate your purchase of the game. Seems to be a requirement of purchasing the game, to authenticate it online via Steam.

I guarantee that if the music industries could have a client that only their cds can be played through they would do it. Currently there's no way for them to do this.

It's still my view that Steam is perfectly fine to use.

[Frankie 7]

well i never thought you would push me to this but yes you have done it. I will NOT be buying the game this year and to date neither will another 14 of my friends either. We hate Steam and do not want this near our machines.

Thanks

[Smurf]

If you're not buying the game or don't like or want Steam, can you please state your reasons. I'm sure the SI and Sega would appreciate feedback that is constructive. And I would also like to know why you are against Steam.

Can you please clarify?

[Egan]

Monopoly suggests they are the only company doing this.

EA run their own called Origin.

Where these clients can help with online gamers where some cheat, these clients attempt to prevent that. And they also hope to delay piracy issues. Having to do online gaming through the clients means that pirated versions of the software may not be able to join in online.

I can see the importance of SI using a client like Steam to authenticate your purchase of the game. Seems to be a requirement of purchasing the game, to authenticate it online via Steam.

I guarantee that if the music industries could have a client that only their cds can be played through they would do it. Currently there's no way for them to do this.

It's still my view that Steam is perfectly fine to use.

Do EA do this to the same level? The problem is the sheer number of new titles that require a Steam account to play. My understanding was also that EA Origin is primarily for titles they publish themselves. I don't have any problems with Valve using Steam for their own games, I just don't like being forced into it when I buy a game by another publisher. Steam is becoming ubiquitous in PC gaming. Origin is not. I think Monopoly is a fair term to use.

It's still my view that something about all this stinks. I'm well aware that view marks me down as a member of the 'Angry Communist' club but, well, what you gonna do?

[Smurf]

Yeh but it's not a monopoly. It's an option that softwared developers are using after months, if not years of research. SI have said they comtemplated different options since FM09 (or was it FM10?).

Steam becoming "ubiquitous" - eh yeh sure it is because it's reliable and it works. There's a small percentage of people that have issues, and that seems to be with any computer system or software, there will be a small percentage that have serious issues.

At the end of the day, Steam is pretty good. And it's worth a shot. If you like FM and wnat to play FM12 give it a go. Even for the demo. See if you're happy

[Richjuk]

Do EA do this to the same level? The problem is the sheer number of new titles that require a Steam account to play. My understanding was also that EA Origin is primarily for titles they publish themselves. I don't have any problems with Valve using Steam for their own games, I just don't like being forced into it when I buy a game by another publisher. Steam is becoming ubiquitous in PC gaming. Origin is not. I think Monopoly is a fair term to use.

It's still my view that something about all this stinks. I'm well aware that view marks me down as a member of the 'Angry Communist' club but, well, what you gonna do?

EA are starting to, Battlefield 3 is going to require the Origin client.

Steam is not a monopoly, plenty of other ways of getting games its just that some publishers have decided to require it.

[typenamehere]

Ii couldn't be bothered reading through 37 pages so i have a simple question.

So regardless of how i buy FM 2012 i have to install steam and register online? doesn't that kind of throw away the point of having a disc in the first place?

[astrosteve]

You know, this announcement makes little difference to me because I had planned to buy 2012 on Steam anyway if it was available. I'm one of those Steam freaks. (I own 166 games on Steam.) Really, this is not a bad system at all in my opinion. At least they aren't using SecuROM or some other intrusive form of DRM. They could have done much, much worse.

[Scab]

Ii couldn't be bothered reading through 37 pages so i have a simple question.

So regardless of how i buy FM 2012 i have to install steam and register online? doesn't that kind of throw away the point of having a disc in the first place?

With the disc you won't have to download the game + activate, just activate. That's pretty much the only (meaningful) difference.

[Kriss]

Ii couldn't be bothered reading through 37 pages so i have a simple question.

So regardless of how i buy FM 2012 i have to install steam and register online? doesn't that kind of throw away the point of having a disc in the first place?

Yes it does tbh, only advantage of a disc is a quicker install.

[typenamehere]

I guess i'm buying the disc then thanks for your help guys.

[Smurf]

Once it's installed you won't need to have the disc anymore. I'll be buying the disc, I could buy online. But I think it's going to be cheaper in the shops, compared to Steam prices.

The box will look great with all the other boxes

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

I know this question is a bit "how long is a piece if elastic" but downloading from Steam on a 30M broadband connection - roughly how long does the download take?

[typenamehere]

I know this question is a bit "how long is a piece if elastic" but downloading from Steam on a 30M broadband connection - roughly how long does the download take?

It would depend on many factors inccluding your connection speed, even a rough guess would be totally random.

[Smurf]

The Approx size of the Demo was 1gb - on a 30mb/sec connection it would take.

@30mb/sec you're looking at roughly looking at 15 minutes - I think.

Test your connection speed

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/download.html

[soccer316]

Does a game even exist that pirates haven't cracked? I've never heard of one.. This scenario just reminds me of FM08 with all the activation problems that only created problems for the paying users and none for the pirates