Official Blog Feedback - youth & newgens

[?]

Not all fast players become wingers, but it is likely that it happens - how many wingers in their prime are slow?

Gibbs in particular was a defensive midfielder/left-winger as a youngster, whilst Bale has played more on the wing for Spurs in the last few seasons.

Yep and how many regen MR/L's in FM are slow? Almost all of them. How many can dribble? Almost none

[Shake Appeal]

I do think it should be slightly easier to retrain a player to be a 'natural' in a given position, but that's kind of off the point. One of the greatest joys I had in FM11 was training two fast young youth strikers who were good at dribbling, who would otherwise have been surplus to requirements, to play at AML and AMR. I chose them for these roles as they were strongly right-footed and left-footed respectively, so I could deploy them as Inside Forwards. Turning them from red to bright green in those positions over several years between 18-21 or so was the most fun I've had with youth development in a while.

[The Welsh Lad]

I do think it should be slightly easier to retrain a player to be a 'natural' in a given position, but that's kind of off the point. One of the greatest joys I had in FM11 was training two fast young youth strikers who were good at dribbling, who would otherwise have been surplus to requirements, to play at AML and AMR. I chose them for these roles as they were strongly right-footed and left-footed respectively, so I could deploy them as Inside Forwards. Turning them from red to bright green in those positions over several years between 18-21 or so was the most fun I've had with youth development in a while.

I agree, I feel the ones who critisize the amount of natural multi-positional regens, are the ones that even though they may enjoy training the next big star don't want to get to involved in the early development by looking at players and see in where they are best suited to play attribute wise not just where they naturally play. They want the game to automatically tell them that the the player even though naturally a winger can also play up front or vise virsa.

The problem is not the amount of multi-positional regens its the AI's lack of ability to do it has good has human managers. Youngsters who come through AI teams are less likely to be trained to play in different positions.

[ChrisNUFC]

Not too happy with this, by this I mean national traits. It was supposed to be in FM11 and really didn't work well. Someone mentioned above, I hope this isn't a blanket thing and there will still be flair players from England and tough tackling defensive mids from Brazil. I fear for this I really do.

Hmm, I have concerns that it might lead to the game becoming 'dated' in long term games. Who's to say what Nations will be known for 10 years from now? France had a sea change where they suddenly developed highly technical players for a generation, before falling back into the physical mould. Likewise 10 years ago Brazil was all about its attacking flair players, yet now its producing some very high quality defensive players.

Germany 10 years ago was known for its mentally tough players, yet now its producing very highly technical players too.

If the traits are hard coded its going to lead to some stale long term games. Hopefully the random factor is good enough to keep it interesting.

[x42bn6]

David Beckham played right midfield, not the fastest on the block. Probably the most famous example.

I'm trying to stress that isolated examples are not always meaningful - the majority of wingers are quick, and the majority of quick players are wingers.

Gibbs was a winger, then turned out he was good at tackling, and plays a wing back role now.

And Bale started as a left back, and has moved to midfield, as he is a good dribbler, fast and good crossing.

I'm just saying, because a player comes into the game as a regen as a certain position, doesn't mean he has to stay there. You can retrain them to positions that suit their stats.

This is true, but then again blatantly-obvious cases should have been ironed out as youngsters. If someone is quick, they will likely know something about playing on the wing through youth days, where the difference between players is a lot less, and positional knowledge is less set in stone. It's not uncommon for young players to have bizarre positional graphs compared with experienced veterans - therefore if a youth player is likely to be good in position X, they should know something in that area already. It is then up to the manager to either fine-tune it or do something different. But this would have been set in motion at youth level - there's possibly 5-6 years of development and monitoring there (join at 9, youth contract at 14-15).

[Dave80]

Does this happen for every club, every year - even for AI clubs?

If so, and they appear in a "new squad" list - is it possible to scout/sign potential youth signings from other clubs before those clubs are able to sign them? Or are the potential new recruits only visible to the club they are effectively trialing for?

What I mean is, if - like you say in the blog - they are able to play in some youth matches, if I or my scout were to watch the match and think that the player was good enough, would I be able to sign him before he has a chance to sign for the opposing club?

Sorry if that seems muddled and confusing, I couldn't think of a better way to word it at this time of night!

[spankie]

Does this happen for every club, every year - even for AI clubs?

If so, and they appear in a "new squad" list - is it possible to scout/sign potential youth signings from other clubs before those clubs are able to sign them? Or are the potential new recruits only visible to the club they are effectively trialing for?

What I mean is, if - like you say in the blog - they are able to play in some youth matches, if I or my scout were to watch the match and think that the player was good enough, would I be able to sign him before he has a chance to sign for the opposing club?

Sorry if that seems muddled and confusing, I couldn't think of a better way to word it at this time of night!

I understand it fine and it would be a far more realistic way of handling these new youth players because bigger clubs often approach the youngsters of smaller clubs before they sign youth contracts. I can name a few youngsters at Watford who have had approaches from larger clubs before they've signed youth contracts, luckily most of them were offered and signed a youth contract and some even a pro-deal with Watford.

What I am more interested in is whether these unsigned youngsters will disappear if they've not been offered youth contracts at their teams or will they go through the exit trials and sign with another club like Marvin Sordell did.

[TJJESSE]

Good news but in the fa rules every professional club need a youth academy. So in the game how would it be possible to get rid of them if that's againt the official rules? Forexample look at crawley town years ago they never had a youth academy but they were forced to do open trials by the fa

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Good news but in the fa rules every professional club need a youth academy. So in the game how would it be possible to get rid of them if that's againt the official rules? Forexample look at crawley town years ago they never had a youth academy but they were forced to do open trials by the fa

I think you will find that isn't true.

[The Welsh Lad]

I understand it fine and it would be a far more realistic way of handling these new youth players because bigger clubs often approach the youngsters of smaller clubs before they sign youth contracts. I can name a few youngsters at Watford who have had approaches from larger clubs before they've signed youth contracts, luckily most of them were offered and signed a youth contract and some even a pro-deal with Watford.

What I am more interested in is whether these unsigned youngsters will disappear if they've not been offered youth contracts at their teams or will they go through the exit trials and sign with another club like Marvin Sordell did.

Any Youth player that doesn't get a contract after the trail period will go onto the transfer list has free agents, therefore allowing any club to go in for them.

[laBOMBA]

A thing that annoyed me in the versions prior to FM2011 is the regen names for Belgian people. Most regen names were either spanish (FM2008) or german(FM2009&10). FM 2011 surprised me with a perfect mix between "native" Belgian names and immigrant names from predominantly Italy, Morocco, Turkey and DR Congo. FM12 apparantly has a more region specific name generation and I just hope the Belgians are not affected like they were in the past. I played a save game in FM11 that streches out over 30 seasons now and I'm still not bored of it. I couldn't do this in FM10 as the regen names started to annoy me in the 5th season already.

[Gwyn]

I have concerns regarding the newgen/regen system. Newgen names has never been an issue for me; personally, I couldn't care less if the names sound authentic or not. This is a trivial addition, which is fine, as long as the major problems with the system have been addressed - namely, the quality of newgens.

The main problem is that not enough good players appear in the game after a certain point. As an example, playing as Arsenal in FM11, having reached say 2017-18, I went to look for promising young (16, 17, 18 year old) English players. To my surprise, there were none! The players in the england under 21 squad were mediocre at best, certainly not up to the standards I was looking for. If you look at the current state of the English game, there are always quality young players coming through and challenging for a place in the England senior squad - the likes of Wilshere and Henderson last season, and Jones, Smalling, Cleverley and Welbeck this season. Looking ahead, I expect to see Chamberlain, Frimpong, McEachran, Wickham, Barkley etc coming through in the next few years. I very much doubt this conveyor belt of talent will stop producing in the next 5 years. In short, there should be at least 3-4 quality English newgens appearing every season.

The situation is slightly better with foreign players, but still not what it should be. Of all the youth players I've brought to the club, I'd say about 95% are foreign players, and of the 5% British, they've all failed to make the grade. And it can't be that I'm not nurturing them correctly, because about 50% of my youth signings develop into quality players who either make it into my first team or are sold on for £10-25m.

Also, with a youth setup and recruitment like Arsenal's, I would expect us to have the pick of the young players from the London area at least. Unfortunately, none of the youth players who have come up through the ranks have ever 'made it' and most of them are not even of League 1-2 quality!

However, I note that the youth setup and recruitment and newgens have been revamped for FM12, so I really hope for a big improvement in these areas. If you've managed to pull it off, FM12 will be pretty close to a perfect game in my opinion, as this is the only area that's really lacking in realism. If these issues haven't been addressed, please give it a go for next year!

[x42bn6]

The main problem is that not enough good players appear in the game after a certain point. As an example, playing as Arsenal in FM11, having reached say 2017-18, I went to look for promising young (16, 17, 18 year old) English players. To my surprise, there were none! The players in the england under 21 squad were mediocre at best, certainly not up to the standards I was looking for. If you look at the current state of the English game, there are always quality young players coming through and challenging for a place in the England senior squad - the likes of Wilshere and Henderson last season, and Jones, Smalling, Cleverley and Welbeck this season. Looking ahead, I expect to see Chamberlain, Frimpong, McEachran, Wickham, Barkley etc coming through in the next few years. I very much doubt this conveyor belt of talent will stop producing in the next 5 years. In short, there should be at least 3-4 quality English newgens appearing every season.

The reality is that this isn't going to happen. The world is littered with once-promising kids who never made it. Although tongue-in-cheek, this article sums it up: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/2641675.stm

What is more likely is that most of these kids will end up as average-to-good players (just as most of the current England squad are), with the odd star or two.

[Gwyn]

I very much doubt any of the players I mentioned above will be playing in League 1 or 2 in 3-4 years time! I'm sure all of them will be Premier League regulars with the top teams, and some established international players. The players I'm talking about coming through in FM11 are really awful - pub-side quality!

[x42bn6]

I very much doubt any of the players I mentioned above will be playing in League 1 or 2 in 3-4 years time! I'm sure all of them will be Premier League regulars with the top teams, and some established international players. The players I'm talking about coming through in FM11 are really awful - pub-side quality!

Most of the players in that link are still in the Premier League, playing at decent clubs. That's where most of them will end up.

Most youngsters that come through top-tier academies never play in the top-tier. A large chunk don't even stay professional!

[Gwyn]

Fair enough. If everyone else feels that the number and quality of newgens in the game reflects the number and quality of young players coming through the ranks in real life, I must be in the wrong! But personally, as a Welshman, I would love to see the real life England team in 10-12 years if they were full of the FM11 newgens - even Wales could give them a hiding!

[Riz Remes]

Most youngsters that come through top-tier academies never play in the top-tier. A large chunk don't even stay professional!

This is quite true. Every year there are hundreds of players filtering down to the lower levels of football from the youth systems of bigger clubs. And at the same time, the bigger clubs are poaching the better young players from the clubs in the lower leagues that have managed to unearth a rare gem. Very few teams can manage to build first team squads out of purely homegrown talents.

[Things Could Get Messi]

love the idea, hoping to have less half star potential dead wood this way. think i only had 1 good youth player on the whole of fm11 so this cant be any worse! i only have 1 question though. i see if you have excellent recruitment then you mabe able to sign youth players from other countries. is the bug going to be fixed on fm12 so that foreign players become homegrown if they were at the club for 3 years before they were 21??? my current club signed a 16 year old player from belgium and at 22 he is still not classed as home grown and its very annoying!

[boneheader19]

the idea sounds great but imo it shouldn't be only the emphasis on which player comes from which country imo not every player has the same attributes only coming for a specific country

the only thing i'm missing in the FM world is the option to build youth academys in other countries that will alow you to get good young talents at a young age and then add to your squad (it's clear that only "rich" clubs can afford to build such academys)

another point which is a little bit bugging me in fm 2011 that if you have a very good youth facilities/academy good players are very very rare (big clubs like manU, barcelona, real madrid etc. have an excellent youth scouting network and getting only the best young player who are showing real promise)

it would be also cool if your a lower league club (but not in the lowest) to say to your scout hey scout me please the youth teams from lower leagues and find so adequate talents which would fit into my team

nonetheless i am really looking forward to fm 2012 it will be the best manager ever for sure :-D

[7Bestie7]

This might be in the wrong place but so far there hasn't been a blog talking about it, but what about the NextGen tournament or other club youth tournaments? Isn't there a club world cup for youth teams? If these aren't in the game (which is fine) will the editor make it easier for these to be created for the Reserves/U-18s scheduling rather than end up cluttering up the 1st Team's calender?

[andyinuk]

Just a minor point. The Blog mentioned that we could delegate to the Assistant Manager. But would it not make better sense to delegate the youth setup to an appropriate youth coach instead? Would there be an option to choose which coach I want to delegate the youth setup duties to?

[LambyGHS]

Just a minor point. The Blog mentioned that we could delegate to the Assistant Manager. But would it not make better sense to delegate the youth setup to an appropriate youth coach instead? Would there be an option to choose which coach I want to delegate the youth setup duties to?

There already is in FM11 so i would have thought it would be exactly the same, but just having more of a say on what you're delegating

[dustShadowX]

A thing that annoyed me in the versions prior to FM2011 is the regen names for Belgian people. Most regen names were either spanish (FM2008) or german(FM2009&10). FM 2011 surprised me with a perfect mix between "native" Belgian names and immigrant names from predominantly Italy, Morocco, Turkey and DR Congo. FM12 apparantly has a more region specific name generation and I just hope the Belgians are not affected like they were in the past. I played a save game in FM11 that streches out over 30 seasons now and I'm still not bored of it. I couldn't do this in FM10 as the regen names started to annoy me in the 5th season already.

Second this. Although I didn't think FM11 was perfect in this area, but it was better than earlier versions. But newgen naming in Belgium is something that can go wrong very easily.

I have some issues with cancelling the youth system though. In Belgium, every team in the pyramid has to field a youth team (U18 I think, but please correct me). Of course in the lower leagues these players are unpaid amateurs. In practice, all teams down to level 6 (a lot in 7 and 8 too) have a youth structure of sorts. Mostly these are run by volunteers and receive some subsidy from the local council. Only a small number of Pro League teams have real academies.

Which reminds me: will there some modifications to the way Amateur contracts are handled? Was a real pain being a Very Low-league manager in FM11.

[Lazaru5]

This is quite true. Every year there are hundreds of players filtering down to the lower levels of football from the youth systems of bigger clubs. And at the same time, the bigger clubs are poaching the better young players from the clubs in the lower leagues that have managed to unearth a rare gem. Very few teams can manage to build first team squads out of purely homegrown talents.

Should we imply from the bold text that the answer to the first of these questions is negative? Could you, or someone, answer the others? I actually have another regarding the AI..

Would the AI managers filter their intake the same as a human manager or will they just give all their youth-trialists/academy graduates contracts?

Will FM12's revamped youth system reflect real-life in this way? Will the "intake" be of sufficient standard to ensure that the Barcelona legacy of breeding superstars will continue long into a save? (Or West Ham's, or Ajax, Sporting, et al..?). I don't want to be looking at 16 PA 90's next season when the youngster's average PA is currently >115, you know?

Will the kids we have on trial automatically accept a standard youth deal or will there be those who know they're worth more straight away that would demand a higher deal? Are we going to get kids who know they're the next Messi who, basically, say if you don't give me X I'll go elsewhere, maybe even with a pushy agent already?

Which brings me on to the kids at other clubs... presumably all the clubs in a country will have their own youth intake on trial at the same time, yes? Would we, like has been suggested, be able to send our best scout along to them and poach some of the better ones (assuming that they would join our club, of course)?

And then what happens to those players who aren't given a youth contract at the club they've trialled with? Do they get trials elsewhere? Is there a second stage to it or will those who get rejected just disappear into the ether?

Assuming that we can poach kids from other clubs, will there be a transfer tribunal of sorts to set transfer fees and future incentives like there would be IRL or are we free to nick any kid we like regardless?

???

[Marz]

“After the youth candidates have played their evaluation match against your current youth team, they will stay on with your youth team as trialists for the following few weeks.”

This is the kind of set up in the lower leagues, or for clubs who have a low to medium level youth academy.

But clubs with a high level youth academy should get youth contracted newgens, on expiring youth contracts. Youth players from within the academy are promoted from U17 level, with maybe a few trialists.

The youth contracts should be renewed/extended or left to run out. Judged by not only the coaches (scouting reports), but also by the clubs’ scouts (missing in FM11). To be either good enough or not, to make the step up from U17 level. With trialists then filling the space if it’s decided they are better or talents spotted through your scouts.

[Luis Frezing]

Halo,Miles jacobson here??nice change in fm12 youth academy,but can i give some Ideas???

i hope that the youngster when join the academy during they 9-12years old,

this is same in the real world, for example:Cleverley join United when he 13year olds

FM should do like this,not only juz 16-17 only join the clubs,its too late!!

hope FM13 will change this age. thx

[Scab]

I believe they can't for legal reasons.

[Riz Remes]

Should we imply from the bold text that the answer to the first of these questions is negative? Could you, or someone, answer the others? I actually have another regarding the AI..

Would the AI managers filter their intake the same as a human manager or will they just give all their youth-trialists/academy graduates contracts?

No, that's not a negative. Clubs can produce youth talents that in the long run can easily fill in the first team squad and even move on to bigger clubs. For example a club like West Ham who have an established quality youth system can produce a lot of players for their first team through their own youths and most likely even some players to sell to bigger clubs occasionally. But like I said, these clubs are not too common just like in real life.

AI managers filter out their youths but their processes happen behind closed doors, so you won't be able to poach players before they've actually been signed up on youth contracts into the AI youth teams.

[Lazaru5]

No, that's not a negative. Clubs can produce youth talents that in the long run can easily fill in the first team squad and even move on to bigger clubs. For example a club like West Ham who have an established quality youth system can produce a lot of players for their first team through their own youths and most likely even some players to sell to bigger clubs occasionally. But like I said, these clubs are not too common just like in real life.

AI managers filter out their youths but their processes happen behind closed doors, so you won't be able to poach players before they've actually been signed up on youth contracts into the AI youth teams.

Maybe I'm missing something, but if the only way that we can see the youths in other squads is if they're given a contract, does that mean the youth newgens are "temporary" players for your club (like greys) that will disappear once their 'trial' ends if you don't give them a contract?

[Riz Remes]

No, the youth players who join on your club on trial but do not get a youth contract will not disappear once their trial ends. They will be free to sign with any club, just like any other youth players who are released in the game world. Naturally if they do not find a club to play for, they might end up dropping out of football (ie. retiring) in the following months/years.

[Lazaru5]

No, the youth players who join on your club on trial but do not get a youth contract will not disappear once their trial ends. They will be free to sign with any club, just like any other youth players who are released in the game world. Naturally if they do not find a club to play for, they might end up dropping out of football (ie. retiring) in the following months/years.

So they behave the same way as newgens today once their trial is over/they're signed to a deal? Does that then mean that there are going to be high PA kids with attitudes and/or agents at trial stage or will they all just accept a standard youth contract? Indeed, do we have to give them a youth deal, can we not give them a pre-contract pro deal at trial?

[Riz Remes]

The youth trialists will easily accept a regular youth contract with you initially, as there is nothing much to really negotiate with that and these are all youths that are coming through your own system and want to get into the youth team. I think technically you need to sign them on a youth contract first, before being able to offer a pre-contract pro-deal as that will only kick in at a certain age and they would need to have a youth contract running until then.

[Lazaru5]

The youth trialists will easily accept a regular youth contract with you initially, as there is nothing much to really negotiate with that and these are all youths that are coming through your own system and want to get into the youth team. I think technically you need to sign them on a youth contract first, before being able to offer a pre-contract pro-deal as that will only kick in at a certain age and they would need to have a youth contract running until then.

Thanks Riz

[FM_player]

Love the new features in yuth teams. Can't wait for FM 2012

[Simply... Awesome!]

The manager of what ever club the youngster is at dictates the way the youngster plays and develops them thats how it happens in th real world. According to your suggestion, low league teams in the conference that concentrate on defending on a 5-3-2 for arguments sake will have to change to what was it 3-4-3 because its new youth players are going to play like that becuase thats what Man Utd, Man City play etc. So no matter what the managers prefered style of play is, he has to follow the top teams because thats how the youngster are designed.

Maybe I wast clear. I agree that players learn (and develop) according to whatever their current managers demand.

What I'm referring to is the initial 14yo regen, who has not been influenced in any significant way by any manager. Granted at this age, a player has a lot of scope with respect to the direction in which they could grow. However, their "naturalness" for certain roles cannot be fixed permanently by country but by the roles demanded by the managers of the current time.

So in 2020 for example, if the top 30 teams in a league play WITHOUT Sweepers, I SHOULD NOT expect a large number of regens in that country to have a "naturalness" for the Sweeper position in 2020.

Again, say its now 2030. if the top 30 teams in this league play WITH Sweepers, I SHOULD expect a large number of regens in that country to have a "naturalness" for the Sweeper position in 2030.

As Managers change, so should the formations, and do should regens; It is incorrect to presume that any country would continue to play the same way for decades and NEVER change. Managers change, which means that philosophies change, which means formations change... and so should the regens

[Marz]

all youths that are coming through your own system and want to get into the youth team. I think technically you need to sign them on a youth contract first

I really do not get why this is programmed like this, don’t get me wrong I like this feature a lot; being able to assess the future U19/18 squad towards the end of the season.

But I think the way you are implementing this is just wrong for clubs who have an academy system. If they come from your own system/academy then they would already be on youth contracts. Trialists are player, in this case youths who come from outside the club.

[7Bestie7]

I really do not get why this is programmed like this, don’t get me wrong I like this feature a lot; being able to assess the future U19/18 squad towards the end of the season.

But I think the way you are implementing this is just wrong for clubs who have an academy system. If they come from your own system/academy then they would already be on youth contracts. Trialists are player, in this case youths who come from outside the club.

I think you're being a bit picky here. The feature sounds like it's giving us more control over the new influx of players into the squad each season (something I'm sure people have been looking forward to). IIRC, the way that this is done is pretty much like it's being implemented in the game with the youngsters getting essentially one year YTS contracts until they're given professional terms or released.

So essentially we're able to see the youngsters who have just come from the team's academy system and are ready to begin their first major steps into the professional game. We can either give them a contract straight away, release them or have a longer look before they decide. This is exactly the way Ajax do their system of youth with many youngsters put in a provisional grouping until the last minute.

[Marz]

I think you're being a bit picky here. The feature sounds like it's giving us more control over the new influx of players into the squad each season (something I'm sure people have been looking forward to). IIRC, the way that this is done is pretty much like it's being implemented in the game with the youngsters getting essentially one year YTS contracts until they're given professional terms or released.

So essentially we're able to see the youngsters who have just come from the team's academy system and are ready to begin their first major steps into the professional game. We can either give them a contract straight away, release them or have a longer look before they decide. This is exactly the way Ajax do their system of youth with many youngsters put in a provisional grouping until the last minute.

I agree, if anything it should be the developers who should be the picky ones, but if they miss some stuff due to the 800+ features they are putting in then I feel fans can point it out to them.

I also stated that I like this feature a lot, but it does feel half backed.

You contradicted yourself, if anything you backed up my query. As a YTS contract is essentially a youth contract.

So my query to the developer remains, why are the newgens at a club(s) with a youth academy not already on youth contracts.

[7Bestie7]

I agree, if anything it should be the developers who should be the picky ones, but if they miss some stuff due to the 800+ features they are putting in then I feel fans can point it out to them.

I also stated that I like this feature a lot, but it does feel half backed.

You contradicted yourself, if anything you backed up my query. As a YTS contract is essentially a youth contract.

So my query to the developer remains, why are the newgens at a club(s) with a youth academy not already on youth contracts.

Probably because each year of trainees have their own type of contracts (if at all). I'd say you're contradicting yourself by saying you like the idea of seeing the potential new influx of youth but you also want them to already be on youth contracts. There's no real point in being able to see the new influx of players a week or two before they enter the U-18 if you can't pick and choose who gets the contract and who doesn't. If they're already on youth contracts then we don't need the new feature, do we.

[Riz Remes]

So my query to the developer remains, why are the newgens at a club(s) with a youth academy not already on youth contracts.

A) Because there is no global definition of a youth academy or a "youth academy contracy" and all the clubs cannot work based on a specific system used at only selected clubs in a selected nation

B) It wouldn't serve any gameplay purpose if you weren't able to have a say in which youth products get to graduate into your youth team.

Sometimes we have to balance between realism and gameplay, as it is still a game at the end of the day. So yes, managers at even the clubs that in real life have an "academy" get to select which players are given proper youth contracts in the game.

[ArsenalFan7]

Sounds brilliant, great work.

I'm really interested in these national traits though, Is there some sort of list out there stating the traits for each country? Would love to see some more examples as it would give me a nice overview of which country I'd like to manage in.

Thank you!

[Marz]

A) Because there is no global definition of a youth academy or a "youth academy contracy" and all the clubs cannot work based on a specific system used at only selected clubs in a selected nation

B) It wouldn't serve any gameplay purpose if you weren't able to have a say in which youth products get to graduate into your youth team.

Sometimes we have to balance between realism and gameplay, as it is still a game at the end of the day. So yes, managers at even the clubs that in real life have an "academy" get to select which players are given proper youth contracts in the game.

The problem in B) seems to be a miss understanding. The promoted youths would be on youth contracts that expire at the end of domestic season. So the managers would still get to say which players from the U17/16 squad would be promoted (have their contract extended and improved) into the U19/18 squad.

Can you not get around the problem in A) by using the Youth Setup, Youth Academy & Youth Recruitment stats combined with the economic stats. So the more financially powerful clubs who have a high level youth system, would get newgens with expiring youth contracts. With maybe a few trialist added to the youth newgens to simulate realism and improve gameplay.

[Marz]

I'd say you're contradicting yourself by saying you like the idea of seeing the potential new influx of youth but you also want them to already be on youth contracts. There's no real point in being able to see the new influx of players a week or two before they enter the U-18 if you can't pick and choose who gets the contract and who doesn't. If they're already on youth contracts then we don't need the new feature, do we.

These youth contracts would need to be renewed/extended/improved or left to run out (end of the domestic season), as I already posted in this thread, post #175.

The reason for my view is that it’s not a new influx into the club (unless this club has no academy). At clubs with an academy the newgens are theoretically already part of the clubs youth academy (U17/16 squad), they should therefore be on youth contracts (YTS like you posted).

As it is now we control/influence only the U19/18 squad (the very last step in the youth academy system).

The newgens are in theory (at clubs with youth academies) part of the U17/16 squad. This is a squad we so far have not been able to interact with.

But now at the end of the domestic season, we get to see these players of the U17/16 squad. And then assess them (as mentioned in the blog), by allowing them to play in normal youth team matches (of the U19/18) for a few weeks.

There is a very real point, in that managers (in real life the director of youth) decide on whom to let go during this final evaluation period.

Part of this feature is that we don’t get some random youths (hopefully) drop on us sometime at the start of the new season. But that we can judge towards the end of a season what we have in the under 17/16 level. This extra time can then be used to scout and fill potential gabs in the future U19/18 squad of the coming season. With maybe a few newgen trialist (found through the scouting network and affiliate clubs) added to the newgen youth of the U17/16.

[LambyGHS]

Is it not best to treat it as if there is no U17/U16 in your academy? If all these players are treated as such that they have no club and have come for a trial from regional/national/international surroundings then yes they would need to be given a youth contract...

[Marz]

Is it not best to treat it as if there is no U17/U16 in your academy? If all these players are treated as such that they have no club and have come for a trial from regional/national/international surroundings then yes they would need to be given a youth contract...

Don't you mean

If all these players are treated as such that they have no club (professional status club) and have come for a trial from regional/national/international surroundings then yes they would need to be given a trial contract...

But then the developers might as well get rid of the youth academy feature. As in effect the game is simulated in such a way that we only have youth facilities and a youth squad just below the reserve/2nd teams.

[LambyGHS]

No i dont mean a "trial contract" as whilst they are on trial they are un-attached! I mean you would then have to offer them a youth contract for them to join your U18 side.

[Marz]

No i dont mean a "trial contract" as whilst they are on trial they are un-attached! I mean you would then have to offer them a youth contract for them to join your U18 side.

But then the developers might as well get rid of the youth academy feature. As in effect the game is simulated in such a way that we only have youth facilities and a youth squad just below the reserve/2nd teams.

What you are saying, and the way the blog sets it out even for clubs with youth academies is this:-

First team

Reserve team/2^nd team

Highest level youth team (U19/18)

←newgens trial, assessment, offer youth contracts, then part of the U19/18 in the coming season

U17/16 players from this squad disappear into thin air

When my point(s) is/are that it should work like this:-

First team

Reserve team/2^nd team

Highest level youth team (U19/18)

←newgens trial, assessment, offer youth contracts, then part of the U19/18 in the coming season

↑U17/16 squad players simulated in the game as newgens move up for assessment (against newgens on trial, shortlisted youth etc), renewed/extended/improved or let youth contract run out (end of the domestic season), then part of the U19/18 in the coming season

[LambyGHS]

Im sorry if im being REALLY thick but i dont actually see much difference between my theory and your theory apart from adding in "some" extra players that are already on youth contracts that have come through the "acadamy". If that is the only difference then i do see what you're saying!!!

[Smurf]

Will Man City's new training ground be in it?

http://blogs.bettor.com/Manchester-City-looking-to-invest-in-youth-academy-Premier-League-Update-a98735

Manchester City looking to invest in youth academy – Premier League Update

It has been reported that Manchester City are finally ready to go all out and invest in a state of the art, over the top youth academy set-up.

The current plans that the club have issued would see around seventy two players be given accommodation on the facilities, while there would be classrooms for two hundred students in total. Sixteen pitches would be included in the overall structure and the best rehabilitation facilities would be provided to the youngsters.

In order to help the youth get a feel of just what they are going to be getting into, a seven thousand seater stadium would be built, just for the youth team to play on.

Brian Marwood, who happens to be the Chief Football Operations Officer, has gone on to admit that this could be the best and most important investment that the club are going to be making.

Marwood, when talking about the club’s plans is quoted to have said: "This could be the most important investment the club has ever made under its new ownership.

That's something else altogether! But will FM go into this much detail about youth academies?

[Marz]

Im sorry if im being REALLY thick but i dont actually see much difference between my theory and your theory apart from adding in "some" extra players that are already on youth contracts that have come through the "acadamy". If that is the only difference then i do see what you're saying!!!

I don't think you are thick. I just showed the mechanics in post #197. The difference is that it would not be “some”, but 16+ newgens from the U17/16 + trialist newgens. And for clubs with no academy it would probably be 16+ trialist newgens.

A youth academy is in most cases, youth squads/groups for different age groups. The way this feature seems to be implement at the moment is for clubs who don’t have a academy, which makes me question why SI pretend that we have an academy feature.

The developers should strike a balance between the number of players coming up from U17/16 which really should be a squad, so 16+ newgens (on expiring youth contracts). Then the number of trialist players, then the quality of both the U17 newgens & trialist newgens (ability/potential and other stats/attributes).

And not just dump 16+ trialist into the U19/18 squad of a club who have an academy.