The Fox & The Lion: Fable of Two FM Roles (or Guide To Getting The Best From False 9 and Poacher)

[crusadertsar]

Part 1: What Makes The Perfect False Nine?

I could have saved myself a lot of trouble, and quite a bit of typing, by simply summing up the answer to my question with a single picture of Lionel Messi. But… because of my love of writing, I decided to go through the exercise of putting my thoughts on the page and try to explain what I think makes an ideal False Nine. In the process, I will give a few (less known) examples of the role before putting it in the context of some FM23 formations geared towards gaining the most advantage from False Nine's unique skill-set.

Defining The Role

So who is a False Nine? It is a rather unconventional role. And it is even described as such in the game.

 

Based on that definition, it is important to address a few misconceptions on what your typical False Nine can and cannot do. When played as a lone forward, the False Nine will not break any goal-scoring records. Scoring goals is not part of his primary function, even though he is a striker. And despite the fact that it might seem like a playmaking striker role, racking up assists, akin to an Advanced Playmaker, is not the primary job of this player. Messi is really an extraordinary exception to the rule.

You might ask, what makes it "false"? The idea is that a striker (traditional #9) starts out in a typically advanced striker position but then during possession moves into 'false' midfield position, an area in which you would not usually expect to find your #9. Thus, a False Nine will often drop down almost into central midfield with the intention of getting on the ball centrally, to help with creating an overload there and to bring the opposition centrebacks along with him. In doing so, an effective False Nine should draw opposition players out of position and create space for his more attack-minded teammates.

To be an effective bait for opposition defenders, a good False Nine has to possess a certain skill-set. This skill-set has to make him appear dangerous to opponents. Often a False Nine will invariably be your best player, the fantasista star of the team. This will make him impossible to ignore and thus compel defenders to follow him and try to mark him out of the game. Because if left unmarked, he should be able to cause a lot of trouble for the keeper.

But due to the nature of the role, a good False Nine will not often be left alone to make an easy run on goal. Rather, the role is a "facilitator" for his attacking teammates and only really starts to shine when he is moving away from the opposition penalty area. Or when he is simply "moving", period.

Part of the unconventional nature of the role is that it only really differs from a traditional central forward when the team is in-possession. Out of possession, False Nine plays just like any regular forward. But when in possession, the False Nine's incredible mobility comes into its own. Typically, he will receive the ball close to opposition defensive lines, control it expertly even under immense pressure (good First Touch, Composure and Balance required), and then turn immediately and dribble with it towards his own midfield. Thus great Agility and Dribbling are also required. False Nines need not be very fast, but agility helps to make those quick changes of direction. While decent Acceleration does help them in getting out of trouble quickly.

When off the ball, it is False Nine's responsibility to time his movements away from the centrebacks to receive the ball between the lines. Such deep movement is meant to give the opposition defenders a difficult dilemma. Get out of position and follow the striker into midfield or let him be free and maintain their position. So it is no great surprise that a skilled False Nine can create some real havoc in opposition defensive lines, if he gets this timing and movement right. Thus exceptional Off The Ball ability is an absolute requirement. And so are some other mental attributes.

An elite False Nine will require top-notch visual spatial awareness and the ability to analyze the field for opportunities both regularly and quickly. In Football Manager terms, this translates into a combination of Anticipation, Decisions and Vision - a trifecta of mental attributes that define a player's footballing intelligence. A player might have great technical and physical skills but without the right mentals he won't know how to best use his strengths to his advantage or possess the exquisite sense of timing that separates the merely good players from the elite ones. Likewise, an elite False Nine should have the intelligence to anticipate best passing angles and predict the position from which he can avoid opposition pressure. All three mental attribute will combine to help him move into space to link-up better with teammates in the final third.

Other than the afore-mentioned on-the-ball skills like dribbling, first touch and balance, your False Nine will need exceptional Passing and Technique to pull off those exquisite through balls towards his teammates. Not to be forgotten, Finishing, like for any striker role, is very important for your False Nine. Especially because the player will often face intense defensive pressure from multiple sides. Unlike a poacher, a False Nine will often find himself shooting from distance, given his propensity to coming deep to create link-ups. From this deeper position, he will also have to be capable of arriving late into the penalty area to get on the end of quick one-two pass combinations started by him.

False Nine Role Models

As a good example, Brighton Albion's Alexis Mac Allister not only possesses most of the required attributes of a good False Nine, but also has an ideal combination of traits. Specifically, "one-twos", "arrives late" and "killer balls" traits.

 

Finally good Teamwork and Workrate, while not key for the False Nine, are always a bonus for any role in the game. They will not only encourage the player to follow the tactical plan closely (teamwork) but will also ensure that he works as hard as possible across the whole expense of the pitch (workrate). This is especially important since you want your False Nine to be an effective presence in both attack and midfield. And that's it! It might be a rather difficult combination of attributes to find in a single footballer but nevertheless there are a few great examples of False Nines early in the game. If you scout hard enough. Some might need a few seasons of development to unlock their full potential. 

If you have a fetish for Brazilian wonderkids then you should look no further then this hidden gem.

Matheus Franca, a 18 y.o Brazilian wonderkid at the start of the game has the potential to develop into a very well-rounded striker by the time he is 20. He is also a good example of a more unusual False Nine. As you can see he actually possess attributes (Tackling, Marking, Positioning and Work Rate) to make a good central midfielder in addition to his lethal striker instincts.

Ilaix Moriba, a Barcelona academy reject, is another example of a youngster who, only a few seasons into the game, can develop into a pretty good False Nine. Interestingly, a few FM versions back, he started his career at Barca with a rather hefty 100 million release clause. Luckily, he is much more affordable in FM23.  

 

Tactical Considerations

There are generally two popular approaches to slotting a False Nine into a tactic. Firstly, as a lone striker. This is by far the more popular use of a False Nine and according to his in-game description, it is basically its canonical implementation. Mainly because it was made famous my Leo Messi's exploits at Barcelona around the turn of the 21st century. There Messi embraced the creative, deep-moving central striker role in a 4-3-3 formation. The 4-3-3 was also made famous by that amazing Barcelona team.

 

I am going to reveal a spoiler here in stating that the 4-3-3 is not my favourite shape when it comes to getting the best out a False Nine. Yes, it is a good formation for getting good performances out of your False Nine but it won't make him shine. Unless he is one in a generation type of player. And in my opinion a False Nine does not really define the 4-3-3 for me. It is too easily replaceable by other supporting lone striker roles, who can play just as well or even better in this formation. One might even argue that a physically strong and tall (albeit with good passing) Deep-Lying Forward (DLF) could perform even better. Or if you have a hard-working Pressing Forward, he will boss the opposition defenders like no other. Although, I would definitely use a False Nine as a lone forward, if I had a couple of pacey, technical wingers and a really good mezzala (or central midfielder on attack duty). The False Nine will consistently drop deep while the runners bomb forward into the space liberated by his movement.

So my favourite shape to use with a False Nine striker is actually 4-2-4, which is essentially a more aggressive form of 4-4-2 popularized in Brazil in 1960s. 

 

Here I use a False Nine as part of a dynamic striker duo. The creative role works really well in partnership with an aggressive Poacher. As the False Nine drops into midfield, he drags a centreback or two with him, and nicely opens up space for the poacher, who always hangs out high and central. The two compliment each other perfectly. Just as the False Nine is a specialist at creating space for his teammates, the poacher is a role that loves to exploit such spaces in the opposition defensive line. In 4-3-3 formation, similar effect can be achieved with the Raumdeuter, "space investigator" role, which is essentially a wide poacher.

In 4-2-4, in addition to a Poacher, you could also employ a Raumdeuter or an Inside Forward on the wing to make even more poaching runs behind opposition defences, stretched thin by the hard work of your False Nine. A skilled False Nine can work with a number of roles that specialize on attacking into space such as IF(A), Poacher, Raumdeuter, Mezzala (A), CM (A) and even Shadow Striker.

 

But whatever the formation, ideally you want to have at least two attacking runner roles working in tandem with the False Nine in order to exploit space from different flanks and/or from deep (such as Mezzala from central midfield and Raumdeuter from wing). 

To be Continued in Part 2: Looking at the Poacher sidekick and putting my 4-2-4 tactic together.

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by crusadertsar

[Samuel77]

 really like the way you explain things. I look forward to reading more.
Thank you.

[Cleon]

A really good read. Can't wait to read the rest.

[crusadertsar]

43 minutes ago, Cleon said:

A really good read. Can't wait to read the rest.

Thanks mate 😊 oh boy now the pressure is on lol 

[herne79]

Good stuff and I like how you show using the F9 in different formations .

[Cleon]

Such a tease 

[crusadertsar]

2 minutes ago, Cleon said:

Such a tease 

 

[vkastanas]

On 18/03/2023 at 15:36, crusadertsar said:

To be an effective bait for opposition defenders, a good False Nine has to possess a certain skill-set. This skill-set has to make him appear dangerous to opponents.

 

On 18/03/2023 at 15:36, crusadertsar said:

This will make him impossible to ignore and thus compel defenders to follow him and try to mark him out of the game.

After reading this wise words I fired up FM and checked some games! I was terrorized to see that when my DLF was on his "moving" phase the opposition CD's didn't follow him but let him move until he received the ball. Then the opposition MC's were closer to him and they marked him. I know you're talking about the F9 here but do the above quotes should  also apply to my DLF, right? So, he doesn't seem a threat to them! Right? RIGHT? 

[crusadertsar]

Part 2: What Makes The Best Poacher?

 

Fox in The Box, Poacher, All-Out-Striker - different ways to describe one of the most memorable roles in football. That of the instinctive goal-scorer, whose main role is... (you guessed it!) to score goals.

Ironically, a poacher is becoming a bit of an extinct role in modern football, with its contagious focus on team-wide build-up and possession. That's because poachers do not usually play a big role in the build-up process. As the game puts it: "his focus on scoring goals is so extreme that he [poacher] rarely offers much help in constructing moves". Poachers are almost entirely focused on one task - helping to maximize their team's scoring capability. While ignoring almost everything else in the process. Therefore, this player must have a very specific skill-set, and an almost innate ability to put the ball in the opposite team's net. Some of the best goal-poachers possess the perfect sense of football timing to be at the right place and time to score that one key goal. A goal that could mean a difference between a win and a tie - 3 points versus 1.

Poacher is a perfect name for such player because of the "poaching" word's connotation with the "forbidden" or "illegal" hunting. A lot of the time, a good poacher will make it seem as if he "steals" the goal from the other team by sneaking up and scoring when they least expect it. A lot like an illegal hunter stealing game or fish from a protected area. A perfect football poacher is foremost a predatory role that hunts as a lonewolf waiting to pounce on a mistake or any other opening by the opposition to try and "sneak" the ball past their keeper. Poaching is an art form and it is far from being extinct in the world of Football Manager.

Much like with False Nine, there is no single "killer exploit" formation that will guarantee the best results from your poacher. Rather, there are many different shapes and role combinations that can get the best from your striker. It all depends on the players you have and the combinations of roles, duties and mentalities you use to service (support) your striker. A Fox in The Box striker will thrive on how much service he will get from the other players around him. To that effect not all support is made equal. Crosses from your wingers and fullbacks will be the most risky ways to feed your striker, seeing how easy they are to block by the opposition.

When a cross does reach your poacher, then it can usually lead to quick tap in or headed goal (especially if you have a player with great jumping reach and heading attributes). Thus crosses are the high risk/high reward service options. Then you have the medium- to-long length passes from the midfield - the usual killer/through balls from your DLP. These I tend to rank somewhere in the middle between a cross and a short pass (in terms of their chance of success). Finally short quick passes that your poacher might receive from another player in close proximity to them (as with a striker partner in 4-4-2 formation or AP playmaker in 4-2-3-1) usually lead to the best high-chance outcomes. That is, such passes have the best chance of reaching the poacher and hopefully resulting in a goal.

For the purpose of this guide, I will outline the short-distance/low risk support players in green, the medium risk ones in orange and the high risk/high reward/low chance support players in red. So how do we use this system to rate the quality of the service the poacher gets in your formation?

Firstly, lets look at a classic "Big Man"/"Little Man" tactic where a small and fast poacher plays next to a tall Target Forward. This old-school formation actually offers a good variety of service avenues to our goal-scoring "little" striker. The best support will naturally come from the Target Forward and IW (which cuts inside into the Advanced Playmaker space). Both of these roles will play in close proximity to the poacher and naturally most of their passes will target him. They are the tactics "green" service sources.

Then you have the two midfielders who will provide the majority of longer through balls towards the strikers. Sometimes they will bring the ball up by dribbling with it or passing it one of the wing players, which is also another indirect and medium-risk way of supporting the poacher. Finally, the three flank players (left winger, fullback and wingback) will focus on delivering crosses into the penalty area. The high-risk "orange" support option. They will have the least chance of reaching the poacher but it helps to vary the roles and duties of your wing support players to ensure that they deliver the crosses with varied velocity and from different locations on the pitch. The Fullback (Support) will deliver a lot of his crosses from deeper positions than the aggressive wingback who in turn will strive to cross more often and as close to the byline as possible.  

The above formation definitely favours the teams with a tall Target Forward next to your Poacher. You could potentially use 4 (by switching the IW into another Winger) sources of crosses to feed your Target Forward and Poacher. But what if you only have one tall striker and he happens to be also be your Poacher? Or maybe you just want to protect your lead by switching to a defensive shape that packs your midfield and results in more counters? 

In exchanging the 2nd striker role for a DM, you will be able to maintain the same advantage in the crossing support while making your overall shape more defence-oriented. Such a formation is well suited to an underdog team that scores most of its goals on the counter. 

And here is another 4-2-3-1 tactical variation that favours getting the ball to your lone striker. The idea is to maintain a solid back four defence while deep midfield brings the ball up as quickly and efficiently as possible toward the trio of attackers (two wingers and AMC) whose main function is servicing the poacher. This results in pyramidal slow-to-fast build-up strategy with your poacher positioned as the tactic's lethal spearhead. 

Thus the variations of tactics in which your Poacher can thrive are numerous. It is really dependent on the strengths of your team. If you have a fast and tall poacher paired with several excellent ball crossers and deep playmakers then by all means structure the formation to take the most advantage from those avenues of support. Then play on the counter and try to hit the other teams when their defences are most vulnerable. 

Personally I like to keep a balanced approach in all of my tactical endeavors. I try to vary all avenues of striker support and to maximise those that give best chances to my striker. That is to supply my primary goals-scorer with different types of service from different areas of the formation and different roles while not relying too much on any single one. This is an especially good idea if your poacher is not overly exceptional in his physique (not too fast or tall). 

For example, to increase our goal-scoring chances I create a balanced 4-2-4 tactic. Inherently, it is already an aggressive attacking shape that is more geared towards attack and counters then slow-burn possession build-up. To give it more defensive stability I have no choice but play my two midfielders as a defense-first double pivot. Yet the kind of players I slot into these two positions are the ones that are closer to your typical deep lying playmaker or roaming playmaker than a simple destroyer. We must rely on these two to be active in both defence and transition and to be able to deliver quality passes towards our attackers. 

Here instead of the Big Man /Small Man partnership I went with a "Creator"/"Scorer" duo upfront, flanked by two IWs. This way I ensured that my poacher can have as many as 3 players in close proximity to him during attacking phase. My False Nine will stay central and drop deep, dragging opposition defenders with him and at the same time free up more room for the poacher and the two IWs. As an advantage to single-striker formations, your False Nine not only provides "green" close support to your poacher but can also make late runs into the box to take shots on goal or simply provide another target for crosses from your wingbacks. Most importantly he will distract opposition defenders and make life easier for your Fox in the Box. 

I decide to go with twin IWs for several reasons. It is a more versatile role that your typical winger. It does not focus on any single task like crossing or scoring goals but tries to do a little bit of everything. Think of it as sort of hybrid between an Inside Forward and Advanced Playmaker. So it can be a really effective supportive role, provided you use a highly technical, intelligent player. Your IW will not just ping crosses all day long like a winger. He is still very capable of crossing if given opportunity (and suitable attributes) but will also vary up his behavior by cutting inside and delivering short passes and through balls towards the strikers. Depending on his duty, IW will get more involved in build-up or will run past the False Nine to offer another avenue of attack or play a series of one-twos with the Poacher. Hence why I went with one IW on support duty and one on attack. 

In the tactic, my midfield double pivot will still shoulder the brunt of longer passing support. And crossing is not overlooked as I employ two specialists in that area in our fullback strata. But unlike the previous tactical examples, we do not rely on crossing, instead maximizing the amount of close up support from short and medium passes ("green"). 

Given the varied sources of service, it helps to have a well-rounded poacher with a similarly varied skill-set to take advantage of both crosses, one-twos and passes into open space. Here I will use the example of Benjamin Sesko as an almost ideal Fox in The Box. A few seasons into his career at RB Leipzig, the Slovenian wonderkid develops into a real force in front of the goal. 

 

Benjamin has the combination of Technical, Mental and Physical attributes that I look for in all of my poachers. Finishing and Composure are pretty much a requirement to be a successful goal-scorer. One cannot claim to be a good poacher if they are not clinical when provided with the right opportunity. Anticipation and Off The Ball are also essential because they will subsequently help the player to analyse the attacking space better and to move into a favourable position. Then Heading and Jumping Reach are simply nice bonus attributes to have for any striker. But especially for a poacher, expected to score at every opportunity and half chance. These two attributes will help by expanding your striker's repertoire and allow him to take advantage of all kinds of assists opportunities, be it a quick one-two pass or a floated cross over the opposition defence. 

Edited March 25, 2023 by crusadertsar

[nick1408]

On 19/03/2023 at 00:36, crusadertsar said:

False Nine Role Models

As a good example, Brighton Albion's Alexis Mac Allister not only possesses most of the required attributes of a good False Nine, but also has an ideal combination of traits. Specifically, "one-twos", "arrives late" and "killer balls" traits.

 

 

 

7 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Part 2: What Makes The Best Poacher?

*Snip*

I'm watching this closely as I've just signed Mac Allister for my Everton side. I've pinpointed a poacher in Jovan Milošević originally from FK Vojvodina in Serbia as a poacher as I didn't think my current strikers suited the role. I'm hoping as a 19 year old he can develop like Sesko and see a lot of similarities - I just saw Sesko as out of my price range:

 

I'm interesting in your 4-2-4 as I have a 4-4-2 I'm using but with a deep lying forward/advanced forward combination which I want to change as once I lost Dominic Calvert-Lewin I also lost goals. A lot of it was due to my DLF not being suited to the system but without Calvert-Lewin I couldn't cover for the DLF anymore.

 

Why did you go for a 4-2-4 to fit in your F9? My general feeling is a 4-4-2 would suit better as it would allow players to start deeper and run past as the F9 is dropping potentially opening up space. I get in your system it probably plays more like a 4-2-3-1 but with only a poacher as the out-and-out goal-scoring threat and a lot of buildup players it seems there would be a lot of frustration in there.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing this series in full.

[crusadertsar]

47 minutes ago, nick1408 said:

 

I'm watching this closely as I've just signed Mac Allister for my Everton side. I've pinpointed a poacher in Jovan Milošević originally from FK Vojvodina in Serbia as a poacher as I didn't think my current strikers suited the role. I'm hoping as a 19 year old he can develop like Sesko and see a lot of similarities - I just saw Sesko as out of my price range:

 

I'm interesting in your 4-2-4 as I have a 4-4-2 I'm using but with a deep lying forward/advanced forward combination which I want to change as once I lost Dominic Calvert-Lewin I also lost goals. A lot of it was due to my DLF not being suited to the system but without Calvert-Lewin I couldn't cover for the DLF anymore.

 

Why did you go for a 4-2-4 to fit in your F9? My general feeling is a 4-4-2 would suit better as it would allow players to start deeper and run past as the F9 is dropping potentially opening up space. I get in your system it probably plays more like a 4-2-3-1 but with only a poacher as the out-and-out goal-scoring threat and a lot of buildup players it seems there would be a lot of frustration in there.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing this series in full.

Thats a hell of young poacher you have there! Will develop very nicely I bet.

I haven't really decided yet on whether 4-2-4 would work better than 4-4-2 for my team. Was just giving some examples of role combos. But generally in FM23 I see players with support duty dropping quite deep and honestly making 4-2-4 not much different from 4-4-2 during attack phase at least. 

And its true, my intention was to have a sort of 4-2-3-1 in attack. I am still rather obsessed with Brazilian 4-2-4 from my earlier thread 

Edited March 26, 2023 by crusadertsar

[nick1408]

@crusadertsar without seeing the rest of your 4-2-4 I am seeing some common threads in your tactic builds. The right inside winger looks like a Marcus Edwards-esque type player, the double pivots look to be Daniel Bragança and Manuel Ugarte while the right back looks like a Pedro Porro-type.

 

I love the idea of two CM-Def as it is customisable enough to make one a lot more free in the midfield (I've put an example below) while the other covers. With the players I think you are using I reckon you'd have Ugarte as the stock-standard and Bragança in a more playmaking role. Both should still cover hard for the four forward players in defence while being free enough to pick out passes in attack.

 

Sorry for pinching your thread with my guesses of your tactic. Let me know if you want anything deleted. Like I said; I'm pretty keen to see how it all comes together.

[crusadertsar]

5 hours ago, nick1408 said:

@crusadertsar without seeing the rest of your 4-2-4 I am seeing some common threads in your tactic builds. The right inside winger looks like a Marcus Edwards-esque type player, the double pivots look to be Daniel Bragança and Manuel Ugarte while the right back looks like a Pedro Porro-type.

 

I love the idea of two CM-Def as it is customisable enough to make one a lot more free in the midfield (I've put an example below) while the other covers. With the players I think you are using I reckon you'd have Ugarte as the stock-standard and Bragança in a more playmaking role. Both should still cover hard for the four forward players in defence while being free enough to pick out passes in attack.

 

Sorry for pinching your thread with my guesses of your tactic. Let me know if you want anything deleted. Like I said; I'm pretty keen to see how it all comes together.

You are not pinching it at all mate! The whole point why I open threads like this is to generate discussion. I love it! And you are not far from it 

[mikcheck]

@crusadertsarI wonder if you care about attacking width when you're using the 424? Since it's only a 2 man midfield formation, do you go narrower? Or because you use 2 IW (unless you use "stay wide" PI in any of them?) you keep it normal?

Other question is if you care about your IW's preferred foot?

Thanks! Another cracking thread

Edited March 26, 2023 by mikcheck

[HanziZoloman]

Great read as always! Thx @crusadertsar

[yuchd]

Good thread. These 2 roles have 1 thing in common: They do not move into channel in default setting.

This provide constant existence in the middle pitch and penalty box, also clear up the half space for other role to exploit.

[crusadertsar]

On 26/03/2023 at 09:24, mikcheck said:

@crusadertsarI wonder if you care about attacking width when you're using the 424? Since it's only a 2 man midfield formation, do you go narrower? Or because you use 2 IW (unless you use "stay wide" PI in any of them?) you keep it normal?

Other question is if you care about your IW's preferred foot?

Thanks! Another cracking thread

Exactly! I use the most narrow instruction possible. In FM23 it is actually a nice method to make sure that your wide players are cutting inside as they are supposed to according to their role. I noticed that oftentimes even when you use IFs or IWs they wont cut inside consistently if you play with anything but "narrow" width. 

Yes, for sure I want both of my wingers to play on the opposite flank from their preferred foot. My whole strategy depends on them bringing the ball nside and providing central support to the false nine and poacher while the wingbacks/fullbacks overlap and feed him crosses.

Edited March 27, 2023 by crusadertsar

[vkastanas]

1 hour ago, crusadertsar said:

I noticed that oftentimes even when you use IFs or IWs they wont cut inside consistently if you play with anything but "narrow" width.

If this is true then I should try and change my width ASAP.

[crusadertsar]

43 minutes ago, vkastanas said:

If this is true then I should try and change my width ASAP.

Try it! You will definitely see a big difference. Watch a few games in 2D to see the movement better. 

[vkastanas]

2 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

anything but "narrow" width. 

Not even "Fairly Narrow"?

[crusadertsar]

6 minutes ago, vkastanas said:

Not even "Fairly Narrow"?

It might work too. Test and see. Personally I don't like to mess with half measures 

[Novem9]

Oh I'm so enjoy your posts!

F9 is one of my favourite roles in FM. I was so happy to realize that SI improved f9 mentality for higher. Few months ago I created beautiful tactic in positive mentality:

Treq (a) --- F9 (s) --- IF (a)

Mez(a)---BBMs)

DLP(d)

WB(s) - CB - CB - WB(s)

It's not always productive (team could be soft in attacks), but always beautiful passing. Especially I'm enjoying how trequartista moves away from flank and mez has a lot of space. Sometimes treq stays even behind mez

F9 has a key role in this, I checked DLF and other roles, but only F9 does it effectively and beautifully 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Novem9

[Drikcey75]

enjoyed your work! it inspired me to try some new tactics, i just have to find the right players =)

[vkastanas]

20 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Test and see

Test results (after changing width to narrow) in 4 games:

AML (IW - S)

Game 1: 7,8 - 1 goal

Game 2: 6,8 - 0,15 xG

Game 3: 8.0 - 2 assists

Game 4: 7,3 - 1 goal

AMR (IF - A)

Game 1: 6,6 - 0,16 xG

Game 2: 6,4

Game 3: 8,8 - 2 goals

Game 4: 6,7 - 0,18 xG

Result: Relatively satisfied but there is room for improvement...

[Drikcey75]

Il y a 2 heures, vkastanas a dit :

Test results (after changing width to narrow) in 4 games:

AML (IW - S)

Game 1: 7,8 - 1 goal

Game 2: 6,8 - 0,15 xG

Game 3: 8.0 - 2 assists

Game 4: 7,3 - 1 goal

AMR (IF - A)

Game 1: 6,6 - 0,16 xG

Game 2: 6,4

Game 3: 8,8 - 2 goals

Game 4: 6,7 - 0,18 xG

Result: Relatively satisfied but there is room for improvement...

still they have to learn this new shape

[Drikcey75]

Le 26/03/2023 à 09:24, mikcheck a dit :

"Since it's only a 2 man midfield formation, do you go narrower?"

what do you mean? it's better to play narrower when using double pivot?

[bosque]

I likey! Excellent write-up. I will try it in my save because I have the players for both roles and the 424 sounds very sexy.

[mikcheck]

16 horas atrás, Drikcey75 disse:

what do you mean? it's better to play narrower when using double pivot?

I'm just saying that maybe it's not the best option to play wider when you use a flat 442 or any other formations with just 2 bodies in the middle of the pitch

[deorvd]

I've been trying to get the best out of shadow striker by using false nine and pf A/S/AF upfront for almost two weeks now. False nine is always nice to see but I don't always see mine dropping and taking defenders with him to make spaces for shadow striker. I rarely use it, I'd say it's more aggressive DLF? Been thinking to use the old school poacher with big guy as TM like the old days after reading this, maybe I'll give it a try if I'm at the limit with no way out with current forwards setup.

[keeper#1]

I'm trying to use a shadow striker in combination with a complete forward (a).  

[crusadertsar]

Part 3: Step-By-Step Creation of My Poacher+False9 Tactic (and with Regista thrown in for good measure)

Thanks for patiently waiting guys ! I feel like its been a long time since my last update. But then being sick with the dreaded Covid (my 1st time!) for the last couple of days was no picnic. So bear with me if my writing is a little more long-winded than usual. Trust me, at the end of the day, this part of the guide has a very clear purpose even if it might take more than one update to convey everything that's on my mind. 

 

New Data Update, New Save... New Challenge

To start of, the point of this guide is to give a little insight into how I go about selecting a "perfect" tactic for my "perfect" poacher role. The word "perfect" being a relative term of course. To me, I get most satisfaction when a specific tactical shape succeeds in enhancing the best qualities of a specific role. You could even say that both the role and tactic were made for each other. In neither case, do I mean that my example player is the best possible representative of the role. Or that my tactic is "bestest" (sic), "killer", "exploit" tactic to score you a thousand goals in 5 seasons. If that's what you are looking for then this guide is not really for you. I am sorry. In Football Manager, I don't play a game of absolutes. No, simply because there exist no absolutes in football. And FM is a realistic sport simulation.

So what will I choose as my "Perfect" Poacher tactic? First, there is the shape.

Narrow, three-in-the-back shapes have become rather popular lately in Football Manager. To tell you the truth I have been trying to oppose this trend up to now by soldiering on with my deeply Brazilian 4-2-3-1 and 4-2-4 tactics. But then with the last data update (and the first rejuvenating smells of spring in the air) I decided to try something different for my final FM23 save (or so I hope). Cue the screaming from my inner FM hipster who always stubbornly goes against the popular grain.

Naturally, this shape is actually very conductive to getting the best results from a single goalscoring striker like a poacher. There are sources of support from the wingbacks via crosses, midfield and centrebacks via long passes and closer up there are short passes, lay-offs and one-twos from the AMC and supporting striker. In other words it is already starting to look like your "Perfect" single attacking striker tactical system, whether your goal-scorer is a Poacher, Advanced Forward or Target Forward. 

When I create my tactics, the next important step I take is to decide upon the player roles. If you were paying attention so far (or just read the title ) then you can already guess two other roles in my system. So along with the poacher, only 8 more left. Or 7 really, because to tell you the truth unless I am going for (spoiler! I am not) some kind of hardcore Total Football possession-hungry, high-pressing tactic, I don't really care whether I choose a regular Goalkeeper or Sweeper Keeper. So most of the time I will simply play my keeper in the position that he is most suitable for. In my current team, it happens to be Sweeper Keeper (S). But you can choose whatever works best for your keeper. It really won't matter for the larger tactic.

 

 

At this point, in the tactical creation process, I have not settled yet on my overall team mentality and team instructions. That's normal, since most FM players tend to adjust those two quite a bit in the early phases of tactic testing. Many things might still change.

I am not aiming for any specific style, such as possession or counter-attacking football. All I want is for my Poacher to excel more in this tactic than he would in others (not specifically created with his role in mind). Then the real challenge will come in trying to fit my False Nine and Regista into this formation, and make them work well alongside my Poacher. From my previous guide piece, you might already guess that getting Poacher and False Nine should not be a problem at all. If anything, the two roles are practically made to be played side by side. What I am more worried about is how the Regista can contribute to this wonderful Poacher/FalseNine interplay. As you might ask, was it really necessary to stick another exotic role into a tactic that perhaps did not need it? My question back to you. Do you love Italian Football? Football from late1980s to 1990s Golden Era? 

 

Conducting The Symphony From Deep

There is a good reason why both Poachers and Registas have been two defining roles throughout the history of Italian football. They both make the sport much more exciting.

Regista is primarily a very creative and unpredictable ball-passer who is given full freedom to create (from a deeper position) and to constantly look for chances while his more advanced teamates get into goal-scoring positions. By that definition, he should be a perfect foil to the Poacher, who is constantly looking to get into goals-scoring position. Indeed, regista functions best when there are runners all around him. Moving targets for all his passes. In this context "runners" are players who attack opposition space, and most importantly those who attack from various strata in the formation. I cannot stand predictability in my tactics. While opposition managers love it, of course, because it allows them to better plan their defence against you. So let's not give that to them! Afterall, as virtual football managers we are in it to win. And best way to inject unpredictability/tactical variety into your tactics is by staggering the locations of your attacking runners.

NOTE: To be an attacking runner in your tactic a role does not necessarily need to be on spect duty, support or attack. That is irrelevant to the greater tactic. What is by far more important is their individual mentality and various hard-coded (traits) and player-added instructions. 

In my emerging tactic, as you can see in the image above, there are quite a few potential runners. Not all will be aggressively getting into goal-scoring positions, like the Poacher, but all will contribute in their way to help the Poacher score. Whether by overloading an area and causing AI defenders to abandon their positions and as a result giving more room to the Poacher. Or by providing wing support and crosses to your striker. On their own, runner contributions might not seem like much but when part of the bigger tactic, they can easily overwhelm the opposition defences already stretched thin by your dual striker system. 

Similarly in the last image, the blue lines show my regista's passing connections, like a spider in a middle of his net, positioned perfectly to reach the maximum number of teammates with his long pin-point passes. So do you still think registas are a bad idea in a False9/Poacher-focused tactic?

As it stands, the core of my tactic has been established except for a few specifics such as team instructions. I am leaning towards starting with Balanced team mentality to keep things simple and to see how the roles behave initially. For now, the only thing I know for sure is that the point of the tactic is to get the best out of three exotic roles: Poacher, False Nine and Regista. The three thrive on either space creation (False 9), space exploitation (Poacher) and chance creation (Regista). For these reasons, I don't think the football we should be aiming for should be too fast paced or too direct. Or even too possession-heavy with it's usual high pressing. So we will have to settle on something between all of these extremes. 

 

TO BE CONTINUED in the next update ... Revealing Tactical Instructions, my 1st (and hopefully last ) Save Reveal since FM23 Winter Data Update, and detailed analysis of The Roles (individual instructions).

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by crusadertsar

[nick1408]

Well… I didn’t see a shape change coming. 
 

I toyed with something similar years ago when I was trying to get the RWB to act as a playmaker. I used a shadow striker with the false nine then so it wouldn’t surprise me to see a role change there as the tactic progresses. 

[crusadertsar]

Just now, nick1408 said:

Well… I didn’t see a shape change coming. 
 

I toyed with something similar years ago when I was trying to get the RWB to act as a playmaker. I used a shadow striker with the false nine then so it wouldn’t surprise me to see a role change there as the tactic progresses. 

Yeah, the shape change kind of came with save change and new team

 don't be tricked by support duty on AMC. Like I mentioned before it's the combination individual mentality, personalized instructions and traits that I look for. All that support duty does in this case is make my AMC start positionally deeper and more eager to help out midfield when out of possession. But when attacking he can be just as aggressive as your vanilla shadow striker. Anyway more details on specific roles soon 

[nick1408]

17 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Anyway more details on specific roles soon 

No such thing as too soon 

[crusadertsar]

Update 4: Tactical Instructions and Save Reveal. Closer Look at Roles

 

The above team instructions are not set in stone but I foresee only a few adjustments here and there as I continue playing the matches (and watching them mostly in full). The biggest change came with the team mentality. I started out with Balanced mentality and we blew away our opposition during the pre-season friendlies. Mostly winning by a margin of 4 or more goals. Although our competition were not our equals, they should not have been pushovers. One was recently relegated to Italian Serie B (Genoa) and another was AEK Athens, one of Greece's elite.

Anyway, I learned to not pay too much attention to friendlies. The real test comes in the first month of regular season. On to the regular matches in League One "Uber Eats" and Champions League. Things have suddenly become much more competitive. After two matches (Away and Home) and two frustrating draws I decided to up the team mentality to Positive. Voila!

3-0 dismantling of mid-tier Nantes. Very pleasing results indeed. We totally controlled that match, both offensively and defensively. Three nice non-set piece goals from out attacking trio. One apiece from each position in the tactic's attacking trident of Poacher, False Nine and AMC(S). Poacher's 2nd goal of the season at that (more on his first goal soon).

I believe that staying on Positive mentality is just better suited to achieve the methodical (but not too direct), vertical ball movement that I am aiming for. Honestly in FM23 most of my tactics have been on Positive mentality as I never really like ultra defensive nor "balls-to-the-wall" attacking football. And have always found Positive (Control) mentality to be perfect for progressive possession/vertical tiki taka style. We control the ball when we need to do something with it and don't get hung up on all those possession numbers.

Setting up my instructions, I started with those that made most sense to me (because of playing with the Poacher). 

Mid-Block - I did not want high-block so as not to compress the valuable space behind opposition defence that my Poacher thrives on. Similarly, the other extreme of Low-Block would turn this into too much of a counter-attacking kind of approach which neither suited the reputation of my team (Marseille do not counter-attack unless it's PSG) nor the abilities of my chosen Poacher (not the fastest player around). So mid-block it was

Pass Into Space - works well with my chosen mid-block instruction and choice of Poacher and False Nine up front. I expect there to be quite a bit of space since we won't be aggressively pinning the opposition lines with our pressing. And once the False Nine drops back into our midfield, I expect even more space to develop for the Poacher to run into. So naturally I want my AMC (with individual instruction to "get further forward") and Regista to start passing more into these spaces for the Poacher to take advantage off. 

Higher Defensive Line - Goes together with Mid-Block like honey and butter. I am a believer in optimal defence being rather compact (but not overly so). So if line of engagement is standard (mid-block) then my defensive line should be one notch higher than standard (high defensive line). If I was playing High-Block then I would use much higher defensive line. 

Stop Crosses and Trap Inside - our main defensive strengths are in 3-in-the-back centreback unit. So why not use it? Especially since our main weakness is the blatant lack of bodies on wings. So I intend to invite them (opponents) into the centre and encourage them to try to play the ball through our three centrebacks and two DMs. Let them try haha 

Take Short Kicks, Distribute to Centre-Backs, Play Out Of Defence, Work Ball Into Box, and Focus Play Through The Middle - All of these were selected in hopes of discouraging low-chance long shots and encouraging more optimal midfield passing support towards our poacher. I prefer mid to high-chance passes (green and orange boxes in tactic image above) from False Nine, AMC and DMs as opposed to the low-chance crosses from the wingbacks and wide centrebacks (red boxes). 

 

3-Men Defence & The Puyol Role

(Pass it Shorter and Take Fewer Risks - the only individual instructions on all 3 CBs here)

 

The main idea behind my three-men defensive setup is that the central stopper will push forward aggressively and try to close down the most forward of opposition attackers. He will do this as quickly and early as possible. But he also has another purpose in acting as the deepest creative player to link between our keeper and midfielders. If you use a creative libero-type player here then you could create a sort of deep playmaker who cab initiate attacks from deep and connect even better with your regista and segundo volante. 

Essentially, while my wide centre-backs hold their positions and cover the zones out wide, the Stopper will engage with the opposition forward to reduce his time on the ball and try to regain possession as quickly as possible. A sort of deep destroyer. Or perhaps this crazy man reincarnated.

My ideal stopper is former Barca lengend Carles Puyol. No-one would get past him and he always gave 100% effort to try to regain possession from deep. What a player! Puyol used all of his defensive skillset (but especially tacking and strength) in order to disrupt the opposition striker's ability to control the ball.

A good stopper, even if he does not completely stop the opposing player, will nevertheless reduce his chance to shoot accurately on goal from central area. And when I tell my team to channel the opposition centrally (Trap Inside) that is exactly why. I want them to run into my Stopper. And be stopped. 

The best Stoppers will require only a few key attributes but the higher values you can get here the better the results will be. Honestly, I would try to get the best possible player for this position. He along with your Poacher (obviously) will make or break this tactic. For this role to be effective you will need the player with above average determination, bravery, aggression, decision making, tackling, passing and pace. While Work Rate is also highly recommended. As well as Jumping Reach, which, naturally for a player operating in defence, needs to be at least average. "Gets Forward Whenever Possible" and "Brings Ball Out of Defence" are two traits I look for.

 

The following clip recorded my Poacher Vitinha's 1st ever goal for Marseille. The Portuguese 22 y.o sensation blasted one from up close through stubborn Reim defence. Eventhough we went on to draw that match, it was still a special goal, and a beautiful build-up that led up to it. I especially enjoy it because it shows all of the elements that I discussed above coming together (like my choice of roles and team instructions). Things will happen very fast so before you watch it, I will quickly run you through what essentially is a very rapid series of vertical passes - an ideal transition from your defence to opposition net. 

The play starts out with a short pass from our keeper which in turn lands the ball at the feet of my stopper Kolasinac (image above), who then dribbles with it for a short distance before passing it to the regista Guendouzi. The regista then passes immediately and incisively to the next creative link in the chain, The False Nine, Dimitri Payet, who then proceeds to connect with our Poacher via one beautiful cutting pass. And the rest as they say is history. 

Oh and by the way, this is my 1st choice Poacher, former Braga man Vitinha. He was my favourite player in my old Braga save, scoring at almost goal per game rate in Portuguese Premier League. He has 6 goals in 6 apps already, so I expect he might bring this tradition to his new club as well.

 

More to come 

Edited April 9, 2023 by crusadertsar

[HanziZoloman]

Great stuff @crusadertsar as always and the plus are the pictures from the golden age.

[HanziZoloman]

Did try the Defense set up, how is the conceding of goals @crusadertsar or how stable is your set up working towards the nil. 

[crusadertsar]

2 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

Did try the Defense set up, how is the conceding of goals @crusadertsar or how stable is your set up working towards the nil. 

Generally I am very happy with my defence. Very few goals conceded. But it's only been about one month in-game of testing. 

 

While Expected Goals Per Game for the league is 1.43. Compared to our 0.56 so far. 

Mind you this is still early on. Although I don't see why it would change alot unless we get a lot of injuries in our defensive unit. 

Edited April 9, 2023 by crusadertsar

[crusadertsar]

And here are some early results.

 

Had a really nice sequence of form in first half of September. Especially in Champions League. That's a whole lot of zeroes there  although luckily not on our side

The bad 2-3 loss to our local arch-rival OGC Nice is the only sore spot here. But we will find a way to get our revenge. And our consolation is that they are currently not doing so hot and about 7 spots below our 2nd position in the league. 

Edited April 9, 2023 by crusadertsar

[crusadertsar]

My only concern right now is that our scoring is not spread through the team at all. The Poacher Vitinha is hogging all the spotlight

Although, that is kind of the point of my whole tactical system and the objective of this experiment. To see how I can get the Poacher firing on all cylinders and maximize his goal output. SO by that account the tactic has been a grand success so far. I guess it's just the pessimist in me who is wondering what will happen once Vitinha is injured, eventually.

I am somewhat reassured by the fact that I have this poor man's Poacher on the bench as a contingency plan. Never heard of this player before scouting him but his attributes look just great for the role! Palestinian too!

Heck, I didn't even know that Palestine had a football team. Anyway, don't know if he will be able to score at a higher level but from his attribute profile sure looks like a hidden gem.

Edited April 9, 2023 by crusadertsar

[HanziZoloman]

Man that are big results @crusadertsar love your writings, they have such a huge impact on my game some of my favs. 
I am deep in my 1860 save and have issues at the back despite investing the main gold into Defense. My setup is very close to yours (also 3ATB in similar roles). Try to implement more of this here.

my main scorer is a SS which is very cool as I love the role but all 3 AM score plenty. My SS is just a newgen posted a pic in the „secret of goalscoring“ thread by @Cleon something like finishing 7 and OTB 11 or 10.

Strikeforce: AMa SS APa 

But Defense has issues… I’ll report back.

[crusadertsar]

Update 5: Diego Simeon Inspiration 

 

 

The biggest influence on my tactic has been the way Diego Simeon has his Atletico Madrid side play in La Liga. For a long time, I have been a staunch admirer of Simeon's hard pressing football (counter-pressing?). I see it as the most pure form of Total Football. Not as fluid and graceful as Pep's brand of Total Football but Total Football nevertheless. It is especially evident in how Diego's style espouses hard working and self-less teamwork. And above all else physical toughness. In both attack and defense. Cruyff-era Dutch Superteams were no slouches when it came to getting physically involved with the opposition. So if I were to describe Simeon's style in two words... Total Toughness just says it all to me. That is how I want my team to play in FM23. Tough compact defence that is very hard for the opposition to break through coupled to lethal and tireless attack that hits the hardest during transition phase.

Yet, Simeon's Atleti team has made some adjustments this season to the style that we have associated with Atletico for nearly a decade. It is most evident in the formation that we see Atletico use more and more often.

This is how their current most popular formation is represented in the game and it is not far from reality. 3-4-3?!! YES!

Over the last two seasons, Atleti slowly moved away from their usual 4-4-2. For more than a decade, the 4-4-2 became practically synonymous with the name of Diego Simeone and his Atletico side. The association has been burned into football fans' collective psyche in the same way that the 4-3-3 brings to mind Pep Guardiola. Neither manager has invented these formations but both have reinvented the shapes to bring something different and exciting into the modern game of football. 

In the last 2 years, Diego started introducing another shape into his repertoire 3-4-3 (or what sometimes looks like 3-5-2 in its defensive phase). In fact during Atletico's title-winning campaign of 2020-21, the 3-4-3 was used more than the 4-4-2! Then in current 2022-23 season, the 3-4-3 has become the mainstay formation of the team.

Along with the change in shape, there were a few other significant changes in the way that Simeon's team plays. For instance, earlier this season (and after a stinging defeat to Barcelona) Simeon decided to drop his team's defensive block lower. Whereas prior, Simeon's Atleti were well-known for constantly pressing relatively high up the field, trying to win the ball as much as possible in the opposition half, now he has them play in a more disciplined mid-block. This has not changed the way his players defend however. As always Simeon wants them to stay close in a very compact defensive unit. Defend and win the ball back in close proximity to one another and use the touchline as an extra man. 

Aside from the well-compressed mid-block another aspect of Simeon's 3-4-3 that I want to copy is the Spanish side's way of breaking down deep defensive block teams. Which becomes one of the main challenges for any side, once their reputation has gone up high enough in the footballing world. Simeon's Atleti do this in two ways. Firstly, there are "countermovements". 

"Countermovements" are when at least two players run in opposite directions with the intention of stretching the opposition and finding space. Such as when False Nine drops deep and Poacher runs forward into the space liberated by the former player. In this case opposition defenders are faced with the dilemma of following either player. Whichever one they follow, gaps are bound to happen for either attacker to exploit. And in a traditional two-centreback system, this can prove quite punishing. Its one reason why some managers insist that to defend effectively against two strikers, you need three centrebacks.

False Nines like Messi are masters of the art of countermovement, working in tandem with wide attackers (like inside forwards). But the concept can work just as well with another central forward moving in the opposite direction from the False Nine.

At Atletico you have Alvaro Morata, who is currently one of the most intelligent strikers in the world. His technical and tactical intelligence is exceptional and Simeon knows how to use him at Madrid. While Morata does not play like a traditional poacher simply because there is much more to his game that makes him into the game's equivalent of Advanced Forward (or even Complete Forward), his interplay with Depay and Griezmann is exactly what I am looking for in my tactic. Varied and intelligent movement from three forwards in close proximity to each other. One flashy one to distract and divert (Depay), one to attack and finish (Morata) and one (Griezmann) to support and attack from deeper (and to pick apart the defences already left in tatters by the other two). One hell of a three punch combo!

The success of Atletico's countermovements comes from having intelligent players like Morata, Griezmann and Depay in his attacking trident. The three excel in timing their movements perfectly, knowing when to drop deep or go forward to receive the ball in the pockets of space that form momentarily. Timing the countermovements correctly can go a long way in breaking down even the most stubborn of low blocks. 

Aside from my wingbacks, my AMC role is the only other role in the whole tactic that needs an extensive list of individual instructions in order to recreate the kind of behavior I want. Here I am looking for a sort of role that sits relatively deep (hence Support duty), maintaining its connection with the deeper midfield. But at the same time he should be able to spring forward and attack the pockets of space that open up via opposing movement (countermovements if you will) from the False Nine and Poacher. Or just to support the two strikers with passes and one-twos. Unlike the two specialists in front of him, my AMC needs to be the ultimate attacking jack-of-all-trades player. A hybrid between a striker and a playmaker or a type of deeper-lying shadow striker. Kind of like the role that Antoine Griezmann plays for Simeon.

Antoine's collection of traits in the game  is quite exquisite but the one that gets me really excited is "Comes Deep to Get Ball". This means that he will drop and link up with the Regista or Segundo Volante to collect the ball and then once he is on the ball, his aggressive individual mentality, other traits and individual instructions should kick in to make him a dangerous attacking presence in the final third. If only he had "Arrives Late In The Are" trait, right?

Unsurprisingly, Countermovements can be very hard to pull off against a stubborn defensive side. Thus it is important to possess another tool in your arsenal. Another one that Simeon's Atletico employs are Overloads. It is something I discussed extensively in my older threads created for previous versions of FM. Well, despite some game match differences, the concept is very much based on reality and should in theory work in FM23. Although it is something that I am still testing as I write. So you can only judge its effectiveness by results you get from this tactic. You are also welcome to try it and see if you can spot instances of overloads and countermovements during the match. 

But what is Overload exactly? It is when the attacking side overloads (through numerical superiority in a small area) one flank or half of the pitch. This in turn should cause the opponent's defensive block to shift over to this side in order to meet the increased threat and try to disrupt the attacking side's ball control there. At the same time things are happening on the opposite flank (one that is not overloaded). There, one or two attackers such as a winger, wingback or a very aggressive striker (such as Poacher or AF) will attempt a switch of play and attack through the more open spaces there (due to opposition defensive shift or significant positional stretching). In my tactic an example of this can be achieved when the left Wingback, Segundo Volante, AMC and False Nine all congregate in a relative small region in the left side of the pitch while my Poacher and right wingback (more aggressive in his attacking movement due to "overlap right" instruction) act as runners that exploit the gaps formed in opposition defence. 

Voila!

To Be Continued....

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by crusadertsar

[JoOSTAR]

You speak about the list of player instructions for your Wingbacks, but you don't mention which ones you use. Or maybe that is planned for the next update? 

[rootcoors]

Just spent the last 30-40 mins reading this - fantastic work @crusadertsar, can't wait to read more.

[crusadertsar]

Update #6: Final Tactical Refinements and Details

 

This update will not be as extensive as the previous ones but will be more about refining some important details about the tactic such as the choice of roles and individual instructions.

Firstly, I made a few minor adjustments. It is mainly to enhance the "countermovements" that I talked about in the last update.

 

As you can see the main idea is still that False Nine will be dropping deep and dragging opposition defenders with him. At the same time I gave a more conservative role (with hard-coded hold position instruction) to the DM directly behind the False Nine. I would like nice link-up between the two but at the same time I want the DLP to give more space for the False Nine to do his thing. The Regista was moving to high up and operating in the higher midfield. And that is the area that I want my False Nine to make his own, sort of like Advance Playmaker for the tactic. At the same time my AMC(S) role is actually my Shadow Striker role in everything but name. 

As you see by his individual instructions, it is meant to be a very aggressive attacking role in the final third. Just like a Shadow Striker he has "very attacking" individual mentality. Mentality plays a big role in how the player behaves even before you take any of the hard-coded instructions in account. In the end, the only reason I chose the "Support" duty is to make sure that he starts deeper than vanilla Shadow Striker role would when in defensive positioning. If you use a hard-working player here than the other added benefit is that he will drop more readily to help defend against opposition counterattacks and help win back the ball. 

Other than the AMC, the two roles that will benefit most from the False Nine dropping deep are the right Wingback (Attack) and the Poacher obviously. They are both on Attack duty and thus will be moving aggressively into the gaps formed in the opposition defensive line (as it reacts to the False Nine). The wingback will try to expose any opposition weakness on the right flank while the Poacher will do so centrally and also drift to left to give more space to the AMC, whose main focus will be the half-space channels on either side of the poacher. This way we ensure a three-pronged attack, with the fourth attacker (segundo volante) arriving late to take advantage of the disruption. For this reason, a long-shot attribute is a nice bonus for this player.

The left-flank wingback is also not to be forgotten as he is another source of crosses towards my Poacher. He is not going to be running aggressively to the byline like his right-hand counterpart but I am still telling him to "cross more often" and hopefully he will also chip in with some diagonal passes towards our attackers. As you can see from the instructions, I am really trying to set up this role as big source of crosses towards the tall Poacher Borja Iglesias. But not necessirily push forward towards the byline like the right wingback would. 

 

Speaking of crosses, ideally I want my Poacher to be a versatile player capable of taking advantage of all kinds of support whether they be central passes or floated crosses. Thus Heading and Jumping Reach are important attributes for all my Poacher candidates. But in general if you can get a striker with a wide tool-set of abilities . So ideally a tall striker with great Heading, Long-shots and Technique (important overarching attribute that basically defines how well he uses his other technical skills). This will ensure that he will get the best chance to take advantage of every single pass or cross given to him. Essentially, in football I don't believe there is much separation between good Target Men and Poachers. All good Target Men should be good Poachers, and vice versa.

If you are looking for an example, here is one great choice for a versatile Poacher candidate.

 

The change from Regista to DLP was part of my attempt to make the tactic even more solid in defence than it was already. I intend this tactic to be my main tactic for the Champions League. A sort of "Giant-killer" tactic which will hopefully allow us to advance as far as possible in the continental competition. Initially I went with Anchor+Segundo Volante combo. I still think it is probably the best choice here but my player suited the DLP role much better and I wanted to take advantage of his creativity. But on another team and with another player, I would probably go with an Anchor. 

Another important element in my defensive diamond (with the DLP dropping deeper), is my central centreback (on stopped duty). That is another specialist role that you need to be careful in picking to make sure that he possesses suitable attributes. Real Betis' Luiz Felipe is a very good candidate for this demanding role. I highlight in red those attributes which I deem essential for the stopper role. Your chosen player might not possess all of them, but having most will definitely help in making the defensive trio more effective.

As I mentioned before, the idea here, is to have a physically imposing aggressive player to step up from the defence and try to disrupt any opposition attacks, try to win the ball back quickly and pass it on to either the more creative DLP and SV or the wingbacks. This is part of our "playing out of the back" strategy to progress the ball gradually from deep and get it quickly to more creative players who in turn can get it to the attacking trident (of False Nine, AMC and Poacher) as soon as possible via vertical passes and crosses. Essentially the style I am aiming for is one that is a mix between fluid counterattack and vertical tiki taka, but generally just aesthetically-pleasing attacking football. And I am hoping that with the right set of players to fill the core roles we can achieve just that. All that is left is much testing. But I am hoping that some of you might be motivated to try this tactic out and report back here on how it works for your club. I would be very interested 

 PerfectPoacherTactic.fmf

Edited April 14, 2023 by crusadertsar

[WhyMe]

Hi Crusadersar,

Great thread, it gave me some inspiration for a new save and tactical challenge.  I've always stayed away from any variety of 4-4-2/4-2-4 as I always struggled to make it work and this gave me the impetus to have another shot and its going much better this time!

I did have one question though, have you noticed that the role suitability ratings appear to be bit odd for false 9s.  For example I have this youngster who performs fantastically for me as a false 9 (13 goals in 17 games after I signed him in January).  However, the game rates him as 3.5 stars for DLF, but only 1.5 stars for false 9, despite having marginally better attributes for a false 9 (most of them are similar).  Is this a bug or is there a reason?  Like I say its not effecting his performances, it just means he gets irritated with playing in a role that he doesn't suit, yet he clearly suits it at least as well as the DLF-s (at least as near as I can tell given the attributes both want).

I'd appreciate any insight you can provide :-)

Edited April 14, 2023 by WhyMe

[crusadertsar]

4 minutes ago, WhyMe said:

Hi Crusadersar,

Great thread, it gave me some inspiration for a new save and tactical challenge.  I've always stayed away from any variety of 4-4-2/4-2-4 as I always struggled to make it work and this gave me the impetus to have another shot and its going much better this time!

I did have one question though, have you noticed that the role suitability ratings appear to be bit odd for false 9s.  For example I have this youngster who performs fantastically for me as a false 9 (13 goals in 17 games after I signed him in January).  However, the game rates him as 3.5 stars for DLF, but only 1.5 stars for false 9, despite having marginally better attributes for a false 9 (most of them are similar).  Is this a bug or is there a reason?  Like I say its not effecting his performances, it just means he gets irritated with playing in a role that he doesn't suit, yet he clearly suits it at least as well as the DLF-s (at least as near as I can tell given the attributes both want).

I'd appreciate any insight you can provide :-)

The only reason why the game rates him better for DLF role is probably because of his balance and strength (key for DLF). But he also possesses excellent dribbling, passing, technique, flair and agility which is probably the reason why he is performing so well as a False 9 for you. Anyway, your example shows exactly why I do not pay any attention whatsover to game's star ratings for roles. They don't matter. All I care about is whether the player has the key attributes that are needed for him to perform his duties in the specific role. And this player has all the attributes required for a decent False 9. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by crusadertsar

[WhyMe]

Thank you, that is what I thought, seems to be a bit of a glitch in the role ratings system.  It is a bit irritating that he keeps getting upset about being played in an unsuitable role that is actually very suitable, but while its not affecting performances I'll just have to ignore it.

[Drikcey75]

il y a 18 minutes, WhyMe a dit :

Thank you, that is what I thought, seems to be a bit of a glitch in the role ratings system.  It is a bit irritating that he keeps getting upset about being played in an unsuitable role that is actually very suitable, but while its not affecting performances I'll just have to ignore it.

Hi, did you try to individual train him to this role?

[WhyMe]

38 minutes ago, Drikcey75 said:

Hi, did you try to individual train him to this role?

yep, has been since I signed him about 6 months or so ago