nick1408

I'm running the following tactic and have been successful but i do have a slight worry: The passing is pretty poor and I'd like to tidy it up a little. What would be an adjustment to stop turning the ball over as much? I am winning so maybe it's something I just need to put up with. Another issue I have is a lack of goals from the striker. He was a DLF(A) but I changed tactic (see previous tactic here) and I simply don't think the new tactic suits either Joao Felix or Tommaso Baldanzi who are more creative. I am in the market for a striker but I also think the role may not suit the build-up players as much as it did previously.

So, I've been playing around with a 4-3-3 with a bit of a twist: I wanted to use a wide targetman and thought the 4-3-3 shape would work best. I workshopped it with Borussia Mönchengladbach in 2027 with Samu Omorodion as the WTM. Results (below) were pretty good except for a three match stretch in March. I started a new game with Everton and again started well with Beto as the WTM. I'm posting this after only five games because Beto just got injured for three weeks. In this save injuries have killed me - lost Onana and Doucoure in the Tottenham match and then Gomes and Beto in the forst seven minutes of the Chelsea match. Edit: *gif failed to load - got sick of trying* Above is why I like the wide targetman. Chermiti is 192cm (coincedently, the same as Jostein Flo) vs Ben White's 185cm. Add in Chermiti's 16 jumping vs White's 13 and it leads to assists like this. Note McNeil's floated cross goes against the team instructions - a good choice by McNeil. Further, a quick search shows me there are currently two starting-standard natural left backs in the EPL - Dan Burn (201cm) and Mickey van de Ven (193cm) who are taller than either Chermiti or Beto (194cm). Newcastle are currently playing Dan Burn at left back so I will probably adjust tactics against them but Tottenham are playing Destiny Udogie (plus I've already beaten them).

I switched the IF’s to wingers with cut inside. Seems to have opened the middle of the field up for me. I also got an attacking player (your BBM role) with comes deep to get ball so switched to an attacking CM. The switch to winger on that side as a minimum has allowed the CM to be my second highest scorer and fourth overall in the Bundesliga. I am still having a bit of trouble with some formations but I’m working through that

How do you fine a player now? I haven’t been able to find it since moving to FM24

I know I need to make some changes to suit players and/or opposition but thought I'd post some results versus different formations over two seasons with Gladbach. I've left out cup games but added in Eurpoean matches. Vs 4-4-2: 2 wins, 1 draw, 3 losses Played this one mainly with the IFs but as it's two banks of four I probably need to rethink my tactics here. Vs 4-3-3: 7 wins, 1 draw, 9 losses Six losses in Europe including three versus PSG so the stats are a bit skewed here. In the league Augsburg and Freiburg were about the only teams to regulary play this formation. I mostly need to drop playing into space as these aren't the strongest teams in the league. Vs 4-2-3-1: 11 wins, 3 draws, 3 loss A very god record against a staple of the league. I seem to match up well here. IF tactic and drop playing into space aganst crap teams. Seems to work well. Vs 4-2-2-2: only three matches - 1 win, 2 losses. Not enough data on it's own Vs 5-3-2 DM: 6 wins, 1 draw, 3 losses Not a bad record here. I mainly switched to the IW version and dropped passing into space. With 3 at the back and 3 in the DM line I needed to retain possession. I also stuffed around with removing more expressive passing to help build up for good shots. Vs 5-2-3 DM Wide: 2 wins - not enough data but it is a tactic that leaves a lot of space ot exploit Vs 5-2-2-1: 9 wins, 4 draws, 6 losses Not a bad record but need to make thoses losees into wins. Again used the IW version but I need to work out the best way to defend as only two of thoses losses I didn't score in. It is a tactic where I am outnumbered in midfield so may need to condsider a DLP in midfield or to concerntrate down the wings more to try and open up the middle? I like the learning I am getting by playing this. I sort of wish it was on the main Tactics board so it could generate a bit more discussion as it does seem like a basis for a tactic rather than the finished product.

Hi @Maddux - great basis for a 4-3-3 (I haven't tried the 4-2-3-1 yet). I have a couple of queries. I think I am aware of most of the answers I just want to clear it up 100%: Do you ever consider putting the wingers onto swap positions? I know you said the strong foot is outside but that way you would maintain the strong foot outside for the most part but also have the strong foot inside to change the attack up on occasion (I assume you don't). I have assume the player at right MC is more attacking than the left MC due to the players you are using in each position and also that you have swapped the CM(a) for a BBM. Also, you said that the CM(s) could be a DLP so my assumption is the right is more attacking - is this correct? Edit - is there ever a time you use floated crosses? I recently brought Joshua Zirkee but missed he has Plays with back to goal. I'm going to test out floating crosses so he can feed the IF's a bit more as I'm concerned with mixed crosses or anything else he will be facing the wrong way too often.

Might be a weird question but how do you know through the analysis whether it's a tactical issue or player(s) underperforming? First off, this isn't your tactic but the question does relate to your analysis. The above is from one match (a few minutes apart. The goal was from a corner so not really relevant other than the xG finishing higher from less shots. In essence, the xG is really good and I can even cope with less shots than the opposition (especially in this case against Bayern Munich). Wolf playeed at MAR, Hack at AML and Weigl as the CMR. Elvedi started at CB before moving to RB when Scally was subbed off. Netz was the LB. from here I can ascertain that the midfield and striker (in particular) under-performed. Here is shows that Neuhaue is under-performing as an attacking playmaker. And here my feeling that Plea underperformed was true as well. So, my question is when using the data centre how do I make an informed decision that the tactic is at fault or the player?

@tikitakamaster I’ve been playing with this and it does work. I quite like it. Whether it’s a fair representation of Ange Postecoglou’s Tottenham or not isn’t for me to comment on. What I will comment on is the tactic itself. I changed a couple of roles to suit me (striker to AF, roaming playmaker to attacking advanced playmaker). I also had some players already that suited particular roles (Sergio Gomez as left back for example). I also purchased Florian Wirtz specifically to play the advanced playmaker role. What I have noticed is the left can be both attacking and deadly but also very vulnerable. I haven’t played around with the tactic yet but I’m thinking of dropping the left back to support and/or adjusting the playmaker. One less convincing idea is to adjust the left centre back to a wide centre back on defend but I’m not sure how this will work with the half back. all in all a good tactic with the right players but for anyone playing with it watch the left flank.

I did notice this and thought the role and mental stats would balance out the passing Yep, absolutely. Makes complete sense.

Thanks - I thought 'clear' meant 'clear as mud'. Turns out I didn't miss anything when reading the original post. On that note; is there player traits you look at to get what you want?

I must admit, I am struggling to pick up on the player instructions you are using, much like @coach vahid. I am guessing the central defenders are told to pass short and the defensive midfielder is possibly told to make more direct passes (to offer a point of difference to the team instruction of shorter passing) I also think both wingers are told to sit narrower. Beyond that, I have no idea what your standard player instructions would be. It feels like asking for the player instructions when they aren't listed is a bit of an insult. I certainly don't see it that way and am more in the camp that they help understand how individual roles work within a tactic.

Makes sense - the crosses become like a pseudo through ball rather than an actual cross.

I've got a question about your team instructions rather than the roles themselves. Why have you chosen low crosses with a 194cm striker? Is it due to your 172cm AMC and what I assume is a short inverted winger or are the crossing players (wingbacks and winger) doing something funky with their player instructions where low crossing is preferable? By the way; thanks for leaving the team instructions in the picture. It helps make sense of the roles chosen overall.

What constitutes a good pre-season? I use your Boot Camp schedule for a week then the rest of your schedules as per your training video so I assume that is a good pre-season but I was wondering in general what is good (or bad).

God! Thanks mate! I would have neve got that.

What is YAC? I’ve seen the acronym a few times but can’t work out what it is. thanks!

I’ve always found a shadow striker works better with creative roles rather than targetman-type roles. My best combination was false nine and trequartista strikers with a shadow striker behind. The following applies to your 4-2-3-1. you also need to be mindful of defensive midfielders picking up your shadow striker. If he isn’t open he won’t receive passes. If he is open but in a bad position he won’t receive passes. Shadow strikers need space created for them. A targetman is a pretty static role and relies on height to knock balls down to poacher-type players (poachers, inside forwards etc). The shadow striker wants space opened up for him to move into before receiving a pass. With a lopsided striker positioning you have setup I would expect the centre back and left back to pickup the striker while the other centre back and/or defensive midfielder to work your shadow striker. Right now you are opening space for the inside forward. If I was setting up I’d move the targetman to be central and test him on attacking. The other option is look at is a 2 striker system. The last option I’d try is a deep lying forward on support to try and get him dropping deeper, a creative role on one of the wings (advanced playmaker, trequartista or inside winger) or move Fulkrug to the wing as a wide targetman and use an advanced forward, false nine, deep lying forward with the shadow striker. the other thing is look at is team instructions. Without testing, more direct passing seems like it’d look to use the targetman and with counter it just seems like you want to get the ball forward and shoot, not build to allow the best positioning for the shadow striker to use. I’d remove counter, I’d make passing default (let the players choose the best pass) and I’d experiment with width. If you’re too wide it may entice the opposition to sit inside to cover central threats. You want the opposition to be opening up to use the shadow strikers runs and through balls. I do like the volante but I’d probably pair him with a support playmaker or defensive midfielder. I’m not near the game right now but I’d like to test an attacking volante with the defending playmaker and see what happens there too. That’s probably just more curiosity though. Depending on what you do if the inside forward remains (and I like the idea here) I’d change him to support. Use him as a secondary scoring option rather than a primary one. *Edit* Apologies, been thinking about this a bit more while I’m out of the house. To put some context around the above think about ball delivery forward and specifically to the striker. A targetman will usually get floated crosses due to the role. With a cross he needs to bring the ball to ground either with a short header or control the ball before he can offload it. This is why he will want someone around his feet (if he isn’t your main man). He is also usually up against the opposition’s tallest and best headers. His room for control isn’t much and if the shadow striker isn’t in the exact right spot at the right time I would suspect Fulkrug (who is a good targetman and striker in general) may be favouring Bittencourt due to his positioning as an attacking inside forward. The shadow striker is looking for space to move into and exploit so will want players who can either deliver through balls (in your case, likely from your defensive midfielders) or first touch passes to him. This is where I’d be looking for creative players forward somewhere and why I’d have both defensive midfielders on support. I’ve only just noticed it but I’d do away with the ball playing defender too. You don’t want him pumping it to the targetman and bypassing the shadow striker. maybe something like the following I’d start with: GK - any role Supporting full back centre back centre back attacking (or supporting) wing back volante regista (or roaming playmaker) I’d be tempted to move these two to CM defend and support to try and bring the attacking playmaker into the play a bit more and not have play dictated from defence as well Supporting winger/inside winger shadow striker trequartista (or attacking advanced playmaker) not targetman (supporting deep lying forward or false nine if I could) team instructions No counter default width and passing play out from defence (to try and allow through balls to shadow striker) focus play through middle

Really quick question on this - is there a reason you used a CM-Su rather than CM-At? is it simply to not get in the IW's way? I m using this tactic (with an IF rather than an IW) with SC Freiburg and it does seem pretty solid. I also don't have an attacking CM so haven't tested that option yet.

I really like the diamond but couldn't get it to work in FM23. I have given a slightly adjusted version of @TheCheesemonger's version (above) for the past three games and from a small sample size (I probably still need to adjust a bit) I like what I see. I do see one issue and it showed in the Chelsea match: The freedom the goalkeeper had to hit the full backs was a concern and I have no idea how to shut it down. It allowed Chelsea to advance the ball way too easily from goal kicks. Width is an inherent weakness in the diamond but from a set piece like this I'd like the two MC's (I think) to pickup the full back to prevent this type of pass. I may even need to switch back to the 4-4-2 I was using prior. Tactic for those who want it: AF has Take More Risks & Dribble More. Everything else is as per above. Make sure you use a left footed mezalla otherwise the Cross More Often is a bit useless as he will be on the wrong foot to cross.

This is a really interesting idea and I might give it a go with my own tactic where I've had the same issue. @Canalma; what are the rest of your PI's? Is there something that may force the players to take speculative shots? 'Shoot More Often' is the obvious one but ones like 'Get Forward' or 'Cut Inside' may be isolating a player into thinking shooting is his only option. Also, is there a particular player/position that shoots from distance more than others?

Simply trying different guys in different positions than what they have labeled as natural. Nothing to do with attributes.

I find the 4-4-2 is the easiest formation for a non-tactical genius to get a result from. You've also thought about what you want. Your team instructions work well with your only player instruction (LB: Stay Wider) and you've taken into account your player's individual abilities. I also like your use of Guedes as a striker rather than a winger. Good work on using players attributes instead of just what the position says.

No such thing as too soon

Well… I didn’t see a shape change coming. I toyed with something similar years ago when I was trying to get the RWB to act as a playmaker. I used a shadow striker with the false nine then so it wouldn’t surprise me to see a role change there as the tactic progresses.

@crusadertsar without seeing the rest of your 4-2-4 I am seeing some common threads in your tactic builds. The right inside winger looks like a Marcus Edwards-esque type player, the double pivots look to be Daniel Bragança and Manuel Ugarte while the right back looks like a Pedro Porro-type. I love the idea of two CM-Def as it is customisable enough to make one a lot more free in the midfield (I've put an example below) while the other covers. With the players I think you are using I reckon you'd have Ugarte as the stock-standard and Bragança in a more playmaking role. Both should still cover hard for the four forward players in defence while being free enough to pick out passes in attack. Sorry for pinching your thread with my guesses of your tactic. Let me know if you want anything deleted. Like I said; I'm pretty keen to see how it all comes together.