FM23 signing youth

[Scott777]

Hi everyone, an enormous part of every game I play revolves around me watching the world>transfers tab and highlighting youth intake.

Offering contracts to youngsters before their club has the opportunity to is one of my biggest enjoyments in the game, tying into a strategy of building a vast youth loan network.

In 23, I started a game as Man City to see what the game played like, and in season 1, every single player I go to offer a contract to says they have absolutely zero interest.

I know it does happen, but around 90% of the time they would engage in 22, in 23, not 1 player discusses terms. Doesn't matter if they're the youth intake of Bayern or a non league club.

Anybody shed any light on this? Is this a wholesale change to the game that will remain?

[Ferocious289]

Same problem and it's really dampened my interest in playing the game, every 16-17 year will show zero interest or say their age makes it difficult for them to move

 

 

[xray1324]

Feels like a bug

[HUNT3R]

Sounds more realistic, if anything.

[XaW]

As always, if you think it's a bug, report it in the bug tracker.

That said, I think this is a welcome change to avoid massive poaching early on after the player is generated.

[Scott777]

18 minutes ago, Ferocious289 said:

Same problem and it's really dampened my interest in playing the game, every 16-17 year will show zero interest or say their age makes it difficult for them to move

 

 

One the one hand I'm reassured it isn't just happening to me, but like you, it's lessening my interest.

[Ferocious289]

51 minutes ago, XaW said:

As always, if you think it's a bug, report it in the bug tracker.

That said, I think this is a welcome change to avoid massive poaching early on after the player is generated.

 

The whole point of fm is buying youth and developing them and It's already been reported. There is development issues and now there is a wall preventing you from buying youth, this can't be justified.

[pedromexico]

I usually play as Reading in my saves so i rely on spotting young players early and bringing them in and developing them. Definitely is the best part to the game. That being said I’m happy for it to be more difficult to just suck up all the youth prospects in the game but I think there needs to be some sense to it. It seems to me that the above example is maybe a bit to far the other way. 
 

I did play as Sheffield (to see what youngster I could get as Readingfc have a transfer ban) and tried to sign a young goalkeeper from a club called “water fc” in Nigeria but he was not interested in what I had to say and I do think a club with a higher reputation should have a good to very good chance of at least getting to the contract stage. I must say I haven’t played much of the beta so can’t say for certain if it’s a one off. I did however sign Andrea’s schjelderup so 🤷‍♂️

[Ferocious289]

1 hour ago, pedromexico said:

I usually play as Reading in my saves so i rely on spotting young players early and bringing them in and developing them. Definitely is the best part to the game. That being said I’m happy for it to be more difficult to just suck up all the youth prospects in the game but I think there needs to be some sense to it. It seems to me that the above example is maybe a bit to far the other way. 
 

I did play as Sheffield (to see what youngster I could get as Readingfc have a transfer ban) and tried to sign a young goalkeeper from a club called “water fc” in Nigeria but he was not interested in what I had to say and I do think a club with a higher reputation should have a good to very good chance of at least getting to the contract stage. I must say I haven’t played much of the beta so can’t say for certain if it’s a one off. I did however sign Andrea’s schjelderup so 🤷‍♂️

 

He's 18 years old, Try signing a 16-17 year old on the beta and it's nigh on impossible

[BrightLad5]

4 hours ago, Ferocious289 said:

 

The whole point of fm is buying youth and developing them and It's already been reported. There is development issues and now there is a wall preventing you from buying youth, this can't be justified.

Depends how you choose to play. Maybe this is a bug, sounds like one. But there are lots of different ways to play FM

[Andros]

Lets be honest: poaching youth is a big thing that can be very much exploited, especially by those with 3rd party apps.  It is possible to have all world class youth at a cheap price when they are young.  Finding ways to combat that is a good thing.

[Ferocious289]

7 minutes ago, Andros said:

Lets be honest: poaching youth is a big thing that can be very much exploited, especially by those with 3rd party apps.  It is possible to have all world class youth at a cheap price when they are young.  Finding ways to combat that is a good thing.

How is it a good thing making it impossible to buy any 16-17 year olds?

[Raymond85]

3 ore fa, Ferocious289 ha scritto:

 

He's 18 years old, Try signing a 16-17 year old on the beta and it's nigh on impossible

Got Simone Pafundi of Udinese to Dortmund with no problem whatsoever

 

   

Edited October 25, 2022 by Raymond85

[Sheafigeezer]

5 hours ago, Ferocious289 said:

 

The whole point of fm is buying youth and developing them and It's already been reported. There is development issues and now there is a wall preventing you from buying youth, this can't be justified.

For what it's worth I disagree wholeheartedly with this. The whole point of FM is managing a football team within the constraints of that particular club.

I think this change actually adds realism rather than detracts from it - how many 15 or 16 year olds would uproot and leave their families for £55 p/w? In my mind they are much more likely to make the move at 15 to the top club in the local area and then to an elite club when they are older still. Hopefully interest of these players to move is more based on location now and not just club reputation.

I do agree that the development bug needs rectifying urgently but think the interest of youth players is a refreshing change.

[greenz81]

Suspect a mini update is coming out... SteamDB

[Ferocious289]

14 minutes ago, Sheafigeezer said:

For what it's worth I disagree wholeheartedly with this. The whole point of FM is managing a football team within the constraints of that particular club.

I think this change actually adds realism rather than detracts from it - how many 15 or 16 year olds would uproot and leave their families for £55 p/w? In my mind they are much more likely to make the move at 15 to the top club in the local area and then to an elite club when they are older still. Hopefully interest of these players to move is more based on location now and not just club reputation.

I do agree that the development bug needs rectifying urgently but think the interest of youth players is a refreshing change.

Lots of 15-17 year olds left small clubs irl to big clubs at young age.

Sancho moved from Manchester City at 17 to join Dortmund. Bellingham left Birminham city at 16 to join Dortmund. Garnacho left Athletico at 16 to join Manchester United. There's more players through the last few seasons who've left clubs between those ages who've been poached by bigger teams.

[Sheafigeezer]

I'm not saying it never happens or should never happen in FM. Just that I think it is more rare in real football than in previous editions of FM.

I also think moving for a starting role at a large club at 17 or so is far more realistic than agreeing to move to an Under 18 team for example.

Let's see how it pans out on FM23.

[Ferocious289]

1 hour ago, Raymond85 said:

Got Simone Pafundi of Udinese to Dortmund with no problem whatsoever

 

   

Good to see

[Workington-afc]

I'm pleased this isn't just me. I think if a 16 year old is at a top level club with a good youth development programme then they may well reject irl. But in my Barce save I have 16/17 year olds at semi pro or 2nd and 3rd div clubs turning me down. Seems a little bit daft. 

[Mars_Blackmon]

1 hour ago, Workington-afc said:

I'm pleased this isn't just me. I think if a 16 year old is at a top level club with a good youth development programme then they may well reject irl. But in my Barce save I have 16/17 year olds at semi pro or 2nd and 3rd div clubs turning me down. Seems a little bit daft. 

Was it for a pro contract?

 

poaching already exist in the game so I can see why they made stealing youth players away from clubs before they have a chance to sign them less of a thing. It was a clear exploit in the game.

[Raymond85]

Are you all getting rejected when trying to get them for compensation?

Or is it actual transfer offers accepted by the clubs?

[Ferocious289]

25 minutes ago, Raymond85 said:

Are you all getting rejected when trying to get them for compensation?

Or is it actual transfer offers accepted by the clubs?

You can't sign them for free and you can't sign them when a bid is accepted.

[Raymond85]

1 ora fa, Ferocious289 ha scritto:

You can't sign them for free and you can't sign them when a bid is accepted.

Well, i will keep an eye on it. i only had that experience, my beta save is more of learning the tactics for the new game, and i just tried to get that one player i knew of to test the transfers. Will keep an eye on it if i get a chance.

fm22 used to let you buy them through a bid, but they refused when approached for compensation.

[STaphouse]

15 hours ago, Ferocious289 said:

Lots of 15-17 year olds left small clubs irl to big clubs at young age.

Sancho moved from Manchester City at 17 to join Dortmund. Bellingham left Birminham city at 16 to join Dortmund. Garnacho left Athletico at 16 to join Manchester United. There's more players through the last few seasons who've left clubs between those ages who've been poached by bigger teams.

 

Sancho and Bellingham left for fee's not because they were poached before signing a professional contract. You can still buy young players, you just can't go through and offer contracts to an army of them before they've signed a deal anymore.

Hope this helps.

[Ferocious289]

1 hour ago, STaphouse said:

 

Sancho and Bellingham left for fee's not because they were poached before signing a professional contract. You can still buy young players, you just can't go through and offer contracts to an army of them before they've signed a deal anymore.

Hope this helps.

lol an army, I tried to sign 3 players with fees after the signed professional contracts, newgens and real players 16-17 and they were agreed, and all of them were not interested in negotiations or said some tripe about how their age means they will unable to move in future, which makes no sense.

It's clearly broken.

[CoffeeFueledCurmudgeon]

On 25/10/2022 at 11:08, Ferocious289 said:

 

The whole point of fm for me personally is buying youth and developing them

Fixed for you.

I'd say it works as intended.

Yes, there are some people for whom the 'meta' is buying up all the regens, but it's not the point of FM, nor is it a feature or USP of the sold product. It's simply not the case that buying and developing youth is the whole point of FM. If anything, it's another exploit that's taken too long to address.

It's always been far too easy to just buy in noticeably young regens, but it's far from realistic given the laws in place in various countries both civil and footballing.

The reason for moving might be bugged, or the translation might be bugged, but the ability to sweep up everyone's kids has long been a broken element of FM that doesn't reflect the legal and footballing compensation laws accurately.

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by CoffeeFueledCurmudgeon

[Workington-afc]

12 hours ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

Was it for a pro contract?

 

poaching already exist in the game so I can see why they made stealing youth players away from clubs before they have a chance to sign them less of a thing. It was a clear exploit in the game.

They wont even let me offer a deal. I agree a transfer fee and they just say they aren't interested. 

[Raymond85]

39 minuti fa, Workington-afc ha scritto:

They wont even let me offer a deal. I agree a transfer fee and they just say they aren't interested. 

If he just signed a new contract, it has always been like that. You have to try a young player who is available to sign for compensation, and bidding for him to the club (given he has not just signed a youth contract either)

[Ferocious289]

3 hours ago, CoffeeFueledCurmudgeon said:

Fixed for you.

I'd say it works as intended.

Yes, there are some people for whom the 'meta' is buying up all the regens, but it's not the point of FM, nor is it a feature or USP of the sold product. It's simply not the case that buying and developing youth is the whole point of FM. If anything, it's another exploit that's taken too long to address.

It's always been far too easy to just buy in noticeably young regens, but it's far from realistic given the laws in place in various countries both civil and footballing.

The reason for moving might be bugged, or the translation might be bugged, but the ability to sweep up everyone's kids has long been a broken element of FM that doesn't reflect the legal and footballing compensation laws accurately.

 

 

So you've managed to assume and thrown me in with a bunch of peopel who buy up all regens. Where did I say I wanted to buy all newgens? I can't even buy a single real 16-17 year old, NOT one player as they all give the same message that they're either not interested or their age means they can't move in future(whatever that means).

You're solution to avoiding ''exploits'' is to make the game so unrealistic that it's a complete no go to sign any promising 16-17 year olds because you feel there are groups of people who buy them all up.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Ferocious289

[janis]

Does anyone know if they are trying to fix this issue?

[CoffeeFueledCurmudgeon]

2 hours ago, Ferocious289 said:

 

So you've managed to assume and thrown me in with a bunch of peopel who buy up all regens. Where did I say I wanted to buy all newgens? I can't even buy a single real 16-17 year old, NOT one player as they all give the same message that they're either not interested or their age means they can't move in future(whatever that means).

You're solution to avoiding ''exploits'' is to make the game so unrealistic that it's a complete no go to sign any promising 16-17 year olds because you feel there are groups of people who buy them all up.

No, I quoted you stating that the "The whole point of fm for is buying youth and developing them" which is an opinion presented as a fact. This, obviously, is the wrong perspective from which to approach the issue in any case.

Now, as stated if you'd bothered to read properly before triggering yourself into the above outburst, I've pointed out that the reason given for moving might be bugged, or the translation might be bugged, but the ability to sweep up everyone's kids has long been a broken element of FM that doesn't reflect the legal and footballing compensation laws accurately. 

I'm not sure where in my shared thoughts you've concocted the notion that I've suggested a "solution to avoiding ''exploits'' is to make the game so unrealistic that it's a complete no go to sign any promising 16-17 year olds because you feel there are groups of people who buy them all up." either. Indeed, should you care to calm yourself and re-read, I haven't offered a suggestion at all, since it isn't appropriate, though I note that the two post that have elicited the most popularity are those of Hunter and XaW who's sentiments are largely similar in terms of being more realistic and a welcome change.

That said, SI may have over balanced this element, given that the variables at present seemingly make every player unavailable. Hopefully, it'll be slightly tweaked, and a balance is found where the unrealistic transfer hoarding of the past is prevent as unrealistic whilst also making it possible to sign a youngster who ticks all the engine variables.

Hope this helps 




 

Edited October 26, 2022 by CoffeeFueledCurmudgeon

[Ferocious289]

20 minutes ago, CoffeeFueledCurmudgeon said:

No, I quoted you stating that the "The whole point of fm for is buying youth and developing them" which is an opinion presented as a fact. This, obviously, is the wrong perspective from which to approach the issue in any case.

Now, as stated if you'd bothered to read properly before triggering yourself into the above outburst, I've pointed out that the reason given for moving might be bugged, or the translation might be bugged, but the ability to sweep up everyone's kids has long been a broken element of FM that doesn't reflect the legal and footballing compensation laws accurately. 

I'm not sure where in my shared thoughts you've concocted the notion that I've suggested a "solution to avoiding ''exploits'' is to make the game so unrealistic that it's a complete no go to sign any promising 16-17 year olds because you feel there are groups of people who buy them all up." either. Indeed, should you care to calm yourself and re-read, I haven't offered a suggestion at all, since it isn't appropriate, though I note that the two post that have elicited the most popularity are those of Hunter and XaW who's sentiments are largely similar in terms of being more realistic and a welcome change.

That said, SI may have over balanced this element, given that the variables at present seemingly make every player unavailable. Hopefully, it'll be slightly tweaked, and a balance is found where the unrealistic transfer hoarding of the past is prevent as unrealistic whilst also making it possible to sign a youngster who ticks all the engine variables.

Hope this helps 




 

I ain't triggered, just responding to your bs after you alterted my post and lumped me into people who you feel are ''exploiting'' the game. i suggest you go and read the bug report thread on the subject to see the number of users who's saves it's effecting before getting on your high horse and pretending to know what's best for the game.

Hope this helps.

[herne79]

1 hour ago, janis said:

Does anyone know if they are trying to fix this issue?

It's "under review".

I guess it's worth remembering that SI's philosophy for the game is realism.  I have no idea what the global rules (and indeed laws) are for transferring young players between clubs and countries, but I suspect they're an awful lot tighter than we're used to seeing in FM so a tightening up in this area is to be expected if realism is what SI are after.

Perhaps this change has gone too far and SI are reviewing it, but unrealistic transfers of young players which we've perhaps become used to I imagine will remain a thing of the past.

[SergeiG]

6 minutes ago, herne79 said:

It's "under review".

I guess it's worth remembering that SI's philosophy for the game is realism.  I have no idea what the global rules (and indeed laws) are for transferring young players between clubs and countries, but I suspect they're an awful lot tighter than we're used to seeing in FM so a tightening up in this area is to be expected if realism is what SI are after.

Perhaps this change has gone too far and SI are reviewing it, but unrealistic transfers of young players which we've perhaps become used to I imagine will remain a thing of the past.

The rules are different for each league.

Some leagues allow signing 16 y/o players(like the Bundesliga) and some don't. I think the Premier League is one of those leagues that won't allow a foreign player under 18 y/o.

[SergeiG]

Anyway, I think "poaching" an entire youth intake from a bunch of teams is so counterproductive and it's cheating IMO, but I don't think that FM as a sandbox game should disallow it.

Just don't use the exploit and that's that.

[whizzkid]

I have a save with real madrid and the common wonderkids wont even discuss a contract after transfer accepted (in the first pre-season) but on my newcastle united save the players are happy to discuss contract - why is this?

[HUNT3R]

1 hour ago, janis said:

Does anyone know if they are trying to fix this issue?

We haven't had a single save uploaded so that SI can review it. They're willing to take a look and they've asked for saves that show issues, especially if a player has less than a year left on their contract and you'd expect them to be looking to move.

[CoffeeFueledCurmudgeon]

1 hour ago, Ferocious289 said:

I ain't triggered, just responding to your bs after you alterted my post and lumped me into people who you feel are ''exploiting'' the game. i suggest you go and read the bug report thread on the subject to see the number of users who's saves it's effecting before getting on your high horse and pretending to know what's best for the game.

Hope this helps.

Not really, you're still clearly upset that someone disagrees with you and can't get over it, resorting instead to this ongoing pre-pubescent flaming. 

As it happens, yes I've read the bug report, and while nobody has actually uploaded a single save to support the claims of a bug which is as unhelpful as it is predictable, I don't see how SI can review the impact without anyone bothering to submit evidence of that which distresses them so.

Not to mention, the only bug is clearly nothing more than a dose of realism acting a little too aggressively within the code to counter an age-old exploit wherein people think "The whole point of fm is buying youth and developing them" rather than realism. Now, if you don't consider the ease of "buying youth and developing them" an exploit that's entirely up to you, it's your perception, and you do you.

But, again, and for clarity because you've missed the point several times: Your opening statement, presented summarily as fact, was an opinion. Which was why I 'quoted' and 'added' to your quote in jest. That you've missed the point is frankly your problem, not mine, and getting all heated over it isn't getting a helpful save game submitted is it?

The whole point of FM, as stated by its makers, is realism. So, my point remains, your assertion that "The whole point of fm is buying youth and developing them" is incorrect and merely your opinion. While there may be a heavy touch to SI's efforts to address the exploit, buying youth and developing them is not a USP of the product.

Now calm yourself. You're getting far too upset and accusatorial about something you've decided was intoned and to be honest I cannot be bothered to waste further time correcting your misunderstanding of my original, clear response.

Hope your day gets better though? 

[Mars_Blackmon]

2 hours ago, SergeiG said:

Anyway, I think "poaching" an entire youth intake from a bunch of teams is so counterproductive and it's cheating IMO, but I don't think that FM as a sandbox game should disallow it.

Just don't use the exploit and that's that.

Is FM a sandbox or simulation?

[SergeiG]

4 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

Is FM a sandbox or simulation?

I don't think the two contradict each other in any way.

[Mars_Blackmon]

1 minute ago, SergeiG said:

I don't think the two contradict each other in any way.

Sandbox suggests an open world and free to do anything. That doesn’t exist in FM.

[SergeiG]

1 minute ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

Sandbox suggests an open world and free to do anything. That doesn’t exist in FM.

There is not such thing as "anything" in video games, You are always limited by something.

But FM gives you a lot of freedom, more than most games that I have seen, on how to start, where to start, how to progress and such. And there is a fact that the game is based on a sport that got tons of rules so it's mostly limited by those rules.

[Mars_Blackmon]

21 minutes ago, SergeiG said:

There is not such thing as "anything" in video games, You are always limited by something.

But FM gives you a lot of freedom, more than most games that I have seen, on how to start, where to start, how to progress and such. And there is a fact that the game is based on a sport that got tons of rules so it's mostly limited by those rules.

Those options are there as a setup. You can’t do sandbox things once the game start unless you buy the editor. Which in that case, you can get all of the young wonder kids you want. 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Mars_Blackmon

[SergeiG]

6 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

Those options are there as a setup. You can’t do sandbox things once the game start unless you buy the editor. Which in that case, you can get all of the young wonder kids you want. 

I don't feel restricted by the game to play a certain way. I can buy young players only, or I can say "screw that" and stock my team with superstars. If I don't like a certain player, I can just give him an extra long contract and let him rot in my reserve team and ruin his career potentially.

There is so much sandbox elements to this game...And it comes from a guy who played RPGs and City builders most of his life.

[Mars_Blackmon]

6 minutes ago, SergeiG said:

I don't feel restricted by the game to play a certain way. I can buy young players only, or I can say "screw that" and stock my team with superstars. If I don't like a certain player, I can just give him an extra long contract and let him rot in my reserve team and ruin his career potentially.

There is so much sandbox elements to this game...And it comes from a guy who played RPGs and City builders most of his life.

That’s not sandbox, that’s managing the team. In sandbox, there is no consequences for your actions.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Mars_Blackmon

[Scott777]

On 26/10/2022 at 09:03, STaphouse said:

 

Sancho and Bellingham left for fee's not because they were poached before signing a professional contract. You can still buy young players, you just can't go through and offer contracts to an army of them before they've signed a deal anymore.

Hope this helps.

Is this an official change? If so, it ruins the game (for me).

Many play for different reasons, and having the scope to do this was my reason.

If this is official then looks like I wasted my money and will stick with 22.

[SergeiG]

13 hours ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

That’s not sandbox, that’s managing the team. In sandbox, there is no consequences for your actions.

Sure there is.

Skyrim is a sandbox RPG and you can die and game over. it's not less of a sandbox.

[obasa_G]

It seems a lot of things have changed and scouting and transfer system is now in in-line with the transfer rules set in each nation and league. For example in an EU country, you can only sign players aged 16 and above from other EU countries. That's why it is going to be hard to sign a 15 year old from an another EU team in another country. 

Another example is that if you are a team in the EU or in the UK and you want sign a South American, North American, African or Asian wonderkid or player then you have to wait till they are at least age 18 before you can do that. Anybody less than that age will not be interested in the transfer.

 

For the final example, if you are in England, you can't sign players that are less than the age of 18. This is probably due to Brexit. However you can sign sign players who are going to turn 18 within your current season. This means that if a player is 17 years old and his birthday falls during the span of your current season then you can sign him in the available transfer windows.

 

I might be wrong but I think these changes are intentional and I am really a big fan of it. I  think the changes are meant to do two things.

1. Make sure all or majority of our transfers in game are done in the allotted transfer windows.

2. Remove the situation where players can have like numerous future transfers on youngsters around the world who haven't even played a game for their respective team.

[Mars_Blackmon]

10 hours ago, SergeiG said:

Sure there is.

Skyrim is a sandbox RPG and you can die and game over. it's not less of a sandbox.

Ithat game is listed as an open world as it has a plot and objectives. But that’s besides the point. I don’t want to get off topic.

[CoffeeFueledCurmudgeon]

On 27/10/2022 at 10:29, obasa_G said:

I might be wrong but I think these changes are intentional and I am really a big fan of it. I  think the changes are meant to do two things.

1. Make sure all or majority of our transfers in game are done in the allotted transfer windows.

2. Remove the situation where players can have like numerous future transfers on youngsters around the world who haven't even played a game for their respective team.

Basically this, yes.

Intentional because SI's goal is to have FM mimic real life rules, but whether it's realistic or inappropriately restrictive will depend on save games being uploaded for SI to delve into.

Another issue here of course, is the players who do actually refuse to move to some enormous club. We don't hear about them because clubs don't air their failed attempts to the media in the same way as actual signings in real life, so we don't really know how many young players choose to 'stay and get a game' over 'move and sit in the youth team for a bucket of cash'.

I seem to recall Abdul Fatawu Issahaku choosing to stay with Sporting CP, with whom he had been training for several months, and signing a five year deal having turning down Bayern Leverkusen, Red Bull Salzburg, Ajax, Basel, Arsenal, Liverpool and allegedly Barcelona. Again, it's not as if he's made any statements to the press as to his reasoning, so only he knows his reasons for choosing Sporting over other suitors, some of which are of much greater repute.

I fear the biggest issue in game, assuming there isn't a bug that makes everyone refuse to sign based on some over-zealous mechanic, is that it's the same drivel about moving at a young  age is stated as the reason for not moving. This is reminiscent of Joe Average in my squad refusing to sign a new contract with my five season champions league winners full of much better players because "the playing squad doesn't match his ambitions"...wtf? There must be another reason, but the one stated is unrealistic. Similarly, I'd expect a youth to have a better excuse than - "cos of my age bruv".

Personally, I've always found it astonishing that youngsters, even at huge clubs, have not signed a pre-contract or even a contract at 16. I hope this has been fixed. It undermines the challenge somewhat when you scout for a player with potential and find that the best three young strikers on the planet aren't on a contract. It's what made previous FM's so dull in long term saves.