The FM22 AMC Thread

[Johnny Ace]

9 hours ago, zZzZzZzZzZzZzZz said:

Speaking of getting certain roles to work, does anyone have any experience with the enganche? Been playing with a narrow 4-2-3-1 for a few days and only realised just now that it might be the perfect time to try out that role, should I manage to find a suitable player.

Yeah, they're fine, they're the king of the pre assist, as in they'll find someone who is moving about, who then finds the goal scorer so in terms of goals and assists, they're nothing remarkable but get the job done. The most boring AMC role IMO 

You could give it a try and let us know how you got on 

[-kay]

12 hours ago, zZzZzZzZzZzZzZz said:

Speaking of getting certain roles to work, does anyone have any experience with the enganche? Been playing with a narrow 4-2-3-1 for a few days and only realised just now that it might be the perfect time to try out that role, should I manage to find a suitable player.

Yes, the anti-trequartista, hard working but 0 flair, it's like Sean Dyche created that role. Despite the description stating it's a stationary role they run a lot and work super hard so I'd recommend more of a BBM type player as an Enganche.  

[Freakiie]

21 minutes ago, -kay said:

Yes, the anti-trequartista, hard working but 0 flair, it's like Sean Dyche created that role. Despite the description stating it's a stationary role they run a lot and work super hard so I'd recommend more of a BBM type player as an Enganche.  

That's not what an Enganche is AT ALL. An Enganche is a stationary playmaker, basically the player who still has an amazing pass and vision, but doesn't have any legs any more, most famous example probably being Riquelme at the end of his career. I have no idea where your idea of an Enganche comes from, but it's completely wrong.

[Christopher S]

5 minutes ago, Freakiie said:

That's not what an Enganche is AT ALL. An Enganche is a stationary playmaker, basically the player who still has an amazing pass and vision, but doesn't have any legs any more, most famous example probably being Riquelme at the end of his career. I have no idea where your idea of an Enganche comes from, but it's completely wrong.

Cuauhtémoc Blanco comes to mind

[-kay]

21 minutes ago, Freakiie said:

That's not what an Enganche is AT ALL. An Enganche is a stationary playmaker, basically the player who still has an amazing pass and vision, but doesn't have any legs any more, most famous example probably being Riquelme at the end of his career. I have no idea where your idea of an Enganche comes from, but it's completely wrong.

That's what an Enganche should be, but that's not what the role does in FM22. Just a quick versus match, milan vs inter, both 4231 same tactic:

 

Diaz played as an Enganche, if you want to can test this for an entire season or so, but I used an Enganche for 2 seasons and this is a typical result. And yes I also thought I could use an old player who can't run anymore, I always had to sub him of and ended up using players with better physicals for that role.

[De Nile]

1 hour ago, -kay said:

That's what an Enganche should be, but that's not what the role does in FM22.

True, although your description is wrong there is a difference between an enganche in the FM and an enganche irl. And a lot of the time when using roles it is best to view them from how it works in the game. In FM20 there was an experiment of recreating Riquelme's playing style using an enganche and it didn't work out well. 

https://rocksendfm.com/2020/10/26/the-south-american-roles-the-enganche-feat-fm-grasshopper/

[-kay]

28 minutes ago, De Nile said:

True, although your description is wrong there is a difference between an enganche in the FM and an enganche irl. And a lot of the time when using roles it is best to view them from how it works in the game. In FM20 there was an experiment of recreating Riquelme's playing style using an enganche and it didn't work out well. 

https://rocksendfm.com/2020/10/26/the-south-american-roles-the-enganche-feat-fm-grasshopper/

What description? I said it's a hard working role in the current match engine and doesn't match the in game description, never mentioned irl players 

[De Nile]

1 minute ago, -kay said:

What description? I said it's a hard working role in the current match engine and doesn't match the in game description, never mentioned irl players 

Your description of enganche as a hard working role just isn't true earlier you said it's better to play a BBM player in the role of enganche which if you ever came to that point of putting such a player in that role you would rather just not use an enganche at all in the ME.

Honestly my whole comment was about the difference between a FM take on an enganche and what an enganche means in real life, that is all.

I linked your earlier comment and elaborate further on the enganche role in FM using a "riquelme experiment"  as an example. 

[Johnny Ace]

1 hour ago, De Nile said:

In FM20 there was an experiment of recreating Riquelme's playing style using an enganche and it didn't work out well. 

https://rocksendfm.com/2020/10/26/the-south-american-roles-the-enganche-feat-fm-grasshopper/

Ouch, FM20 and AMCs didn't go together well (I think FM19 was the worse)  But yeesh, Grasshopper had a rough time of it there. His tactic's not suited to the Enganche though, a static striker, no width, no runs from deep. You need movement, the Enganche in FM is often described as the hook, he's fairly immobile so the players around need to be mobile

We're talking FM here too guys, look at the description of the role, look at the instructions (barring in mind it's a PM role) and look at the key and secondary attributes required, that will tell you everything you need to know about the role 

[bosque]

I'm not sure if balance is highlighted as a key attribute for the Enganche but if it was based on Riquelme then he needs loads of Balance and Flair because that were basically his best strenghts (apart from his vision and set pieces). It was impossible to steal him the ball because he was very good at covering it. And I think that translates very well with a high attribute of Balance. As he is a static player and a playmaker, he will attract players (creating space for attackers) so he needs to have attributes to not lose the ball under pressure.

[zZzZzZzZzZzZzZz]

1 hour ago, bosque said:

I'm not sure if balance is highlighted as a key attribute for the Enganche but if it was based on Riquelme then he needs loads of Balance and Flair because that were basically his best strenghts (apart from his vision and set pieces). It was impossible to steal him the ball because he was very good at covering it. And I think that translates very well with a high attribute of Balance. As he is a static player and a playmaker, he will attract players (creating space for attackers) so he needs to have attributes to not lose the ball under pressure.

It used to be, but for some reason it has switched over to highlighting agility this year. I'm not sure if that is an intentional change or a bug.

[zZzZzZzZzZzZzZz]

Managed to find the kind of player I wanted for my enganche experiment:

It was a bit challenging to find a player with the right attributes who didn't have any traits that encourage dribbling more or undesirable movement, but I did find Palacios at Basel and for €14m I have to say he was something of a bargain.

The formation he'll be playing in:

With AM's on either side, an AF up front and two wingbacks coming up the flanks he should have plenty of options when he gets the ball, but I am sure I will have to tweak my TIs to make sure that he does get the ball.

[bosque]

En 21/6/2022 a las 8:42, Johnny Ace dijo:

How are you getting on with your AMC @bosque?

After your advices with players attacking the box I'm seeing very interesting movements with this setup:

          AF(a)

W(s)  AM(a)  IF(s)

I'm using a Winger because my strikers are good in the air. And the AM(a) is Wirtz, he is finding a lot of space and making a lot of key passes.

[_mxrky]

Shadow striker > False 9. Look how deep he drops and the space it creates for my inside forward:

Btw my positional play is working perfectly

[KlaaZ]

Played with a narrow 4231 at Parma for the past two seasons (winning the league twice), but recently changed to a wide version. Looks very solid. Also because I have a lot of great attacking midfielders, all with a bit of a different skillset. 

Spoiler

Pablo Torre is my main man for now. Picked him up for 27.5M in the summer of 2026 and after a wonky start he's been slaying it. Great PPM's for someone sitting in the hole.

Spoiler

Moreno-Manzanaro is the kid who will probably take over from Torre in a few years. Actually found him at Juventud Laguna in Spain and picked him up for 50k. 

Spoiler

Katsamakas had been my main man before Torre arrived, stole him from Bayern for 3M but his technicals are not what they should be. 

Spoiler

And finally, Anderson's been very important for me ever since we picked him up for free at the start of the third season. Played as a CM(A) in the first year, bagging 16 goals, but then moved up to the ACM slot.

Spoiler

 

[3maldini3]

On 04/06/2022 at 03:19, Johnny Ace said:

Robertooooo Baaaagio!!! Just casually destroying West Bromich Albion

Just playing around, I guess he's crazy good for the Championship even at 18 

Wait, what?!

[Johnny Ace]

On 02/07/2022 at 05:24, turgi said:

Wait, what?!

The Workshop has Legends  

[jens_dewit]

I've been wondering about the treq. What's needed for him to optimally fulfil his duty? Lots of movement around him? Inverted wingers or regular wingers? Inside forwards?

And perhaps another question for people like me: what do you see as the optimal performance for a treq? Goals or assists? Pre assists?

[Johnny Ace]

1 hour ago, jens_dewit said:

I've been wondering about the treq. What's needed for him to optimally fulfil his duty? Lots of movement around him? Inverted wingers or regular wingers? Inside forwards?

And perhaps another question for people like me: what do you see as the optimal performance for a treq? Goals or assists? Pre assists?

I found a 4-4-2 Diamond or a 4-3-1-2 was really good for the Trequartista, he basically has the attacking midfield all to himself and two targets in front him he can interlink with and supply 

On another note, Tardelly, that Brazilian beast I was talking about a couple of pages back, he's under my command now I'm the boss of Bayern, here's a nice first half hattrick he just picked up 

Something I've just noticed with him:

 

I really didn't expect that to cause a clash 

[mikcheck]

1 hora atrás, Johnny Ace disse:

 

Something I've just noticed with him:

 

I really didn't expect that to cause a clash 

I think it makes sense to be contradictory, someone who likes to play with back to goal is unlikely to get further forward often.

[Johnny Ace]

10 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

I think it makes sense to be contradictory, someone who likes to play with back to goal is unlikely to get further forward often.

I've never seen him play with is back to goal though so I thought it didn't apply to other positions apart from the Striker position, I thought Comes Deep would be the conflicting trait 

It doesn't affect him playing AM(A), so not sure if it's a bug

 

[Johnny Ace]

Nice set up here from the AI 

[zZzZzZzZzZzZzZz]

2 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

Nice set up here from the AI 

AI playing strikerless? That's a first!

[Freakiie]

AI got good taste it seems!

 

[04texag]

19 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

I've never seen him play with is back to goal though so I thought it didn't apply to other positions apart from the Striker position, I thought Comes Deep would be the conflicting trait 

It doesn't affect him playing AM(A), so not sure if it's a bug

 

That third goal is so nice, the give and go...

[Johnny Ace]

6 minutes ago, 04texag said:

That third goal is so nice, the give and go...

That's him linking with the F9, I'm pretty sure he has the "plays one twos" trait which is great for an offensive AMC

[bosque]

AI was doing some machine learning with Strikerless blog 

[Waseyx]

It's only been 20 games with the tactic so far but it's playing some incredible football with the Shadow Striker and the AF reaping the benefits. Lots of one twos and flowing moves.  I don't know how to make Gifs to show off the football but the first 3 goals in that game were wonderful.

Mallorca v Real Sociedad.pkm

[Draakon]

On 29/06/2022 at 14:55, -kay said:

That's what an Enganche should be, but that's not what the role does in FM22. Just a quick versus match, milan vs inter, both 4231 same tactic:

 

Diaz played as an Enganche, if you want to can test this for an entire season or so, but I used an Enganche for 2 seasons and this is a typical result. And yes I also thought I could use an old player who can't run anymore, I always had to sub him of and ended up using players with better physicals for that role.

 

Well, I believe that here lies one of the flaws in the current match engine.

In high-pressing (hig LOE) + counter-pressing system with 4-2-3-1 formation, the most hard working players are three attacking midfielders. At least they gather the most distance during 90 minutes. They work way more than full-backs or controlling midfielders, for example. And in the current match engine they are able to do that hard work, regardless of their work rate, stamina and natural fitness attributes, because fatigue doesn't really matter in FM.

In reality most of them wouldn't do that because they just don't have necessary mentality (work rate, determination) or physical ability to press so much, always. 

[Johnny Ace]

15 hours ago, Waseyx said:

I don't know how to make Gifs to show off the football

ScreentoGIF is the one I use, it's free as far as I know 

[bosque]

hace 8 horas, Draakon dijo:

 

Well, I believe that here lies one of the flaws in the current match engine.

In high-pressing (hig LOE) + counter-pressing system with 4-2-3-1 formation, the most hard working players are three attacking midfielders. At least they gather the most distance during 90 minutes. They work way more than full-backs or controlling midfielders, for example. And in the current match engine they are able to do that hard work, regardless of their work rate, stamina and natural fitness attributes, because fatigue doesn't really matter in FM.

In reality most of them wouldn't do that because they just don't have necessary mentality (work rate, determination) or physical ability to press so much, always. 

That is something I always thought. Given the amount of succesfull tactics with high pressing, high lines, counter-press, etc, I'm not very sure if workrate, stamina and natural fitness are that important in the ME. They are for real life for sure.

[JoOSTAR]

18 hours ago, Waseyx said:

It's only been 20 games with the tactic so far but it's playing some incredible football with the Shadow Striker and the AF reaping the benefits. Lots of one twos and flowing moves.  I don't know how to make Gifs to show off the football but the first 3 goals in that game were wonderful.

Mallorca v Real Sociedad.pkm 208.19 kB · 0 downloads

Can you share your savegame please? (Maybe in DM/PM if you don't want the whole world to see it  )

Not that I think you are "cheating" or something, but I remember your earlier tactic in this topic and it worked wonders for me, so I'm really curious to see the full setup in your save.

[Waseyx]

2 hours ago, JoOSTAR said:

Can you share your savegame please? (Maybe in DM/PM if you don't want the whole world to see it  )

Not that I think you are "cheating" or something, but I remember your earlier tactic in this topic and it worked wonders for me, so I'm really curious to see the full setup in your save.

https://gofile.io/d/KtJOuk

[bosque]

I'm having good perfomances from my AMC but I'm having 2 problems:

- Defending: I find my DM's doing a bad job screening my CB's and they end up having to leave the line and creating space or just conceding throuhg balls.

- Attacking: We are too predictable and a bit toothless. I rely a lot from set pieces. And we try too many balls over the top to my AF.

Right now I am fielding like this:

Positive mentality. Nothing in possession. Pass to fullbacks in-transition. Prevent GK distribution out of possession.

                               AF(A)

W(S)                      AM(A)                      IW(S)

 

                 VOL(S)              DM(D)  

FB(S)         CD(D)              CD(D)            FB(A)

[Johnny Ace]

I finally finished my season at Bayern, getting Tardelly as the top scorer was the plan and he did it. 33 returns in 43 games was cracking. He was on 1:1 about 25 games in but he started hitting the goal and assist clauses in his contract and dropped off 

 Missed 3 pens and under performed his XG 

 

Think I'm done at Bayern, was planning a season or two off but they offered me the job the minute I left Stuttgart and they had a cracking F9 and AMC, I couldn't resist 

[04texag]

2 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

I finally finished my season at Bayern, getting Tardelly as the top scorer was the plan and he did it. 33 returns in 43 games was cracking. He was on 1:1 about 25 games in but he started hitting the goal and assist clauses in his contract and dropped off 

 Missed 3 pens and under performed his XG 

 

Think I'm done at Bayern, was planning a season or two off but they offered me the job the minute I left Stuttgart and they had a cracking F9 and AMC, I couldn't resist 

Holy bananas that guy's attributes are flaming hot.

[Johnny Ace]

10 hours ago, 04texag said:

Holy bananas that guy's attributes are flaming hot.

Yeah, he was a pain to play against, so when I had the chance to manage him, I went for it. I talked about him a couple of pages back, an absolute beast  

[04texag]

4 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

Yeah, he was a pain to play against, so when I had the chance to manage him, I went for it. I talked about him a couple of pages back, an absolute beast  

Can you explain thinking behind the PPM plays with back to goal for an AMC? How do you set him up with that and how does he play? Sorry if I missed that from before. 

[bosque]

hace 1 hora, 04texag dijo:

Can you explain thinking behind the PPM plays with back to goal for an AMC? How do you set him up with that and how does he play? Sorry if I missed that from before. 

Sorry for answering instead of Johnny but I'm almost sure that he said the ppm doesn't kick in in the AMC position and he suspects is a ST only ppm.

[bosque]

En 15/6/2022 a las 5:12, Johnny Ace dijo:

@FreakiieI watched some Tardelly clips and goals, I even scouted him to see his match reports. AI Nagelsmann plays him as an Attacking Midfielder, a lot of the goals he scores are near post headers and freekicks. I couldn't see the "plays with back to goal" PT kick in while he was playing there so I'm guessing it only affects the STR position, which makes sense  

@04texag

Sorry for doble post.

[Johnny Ace]

20 hours ago, 04texag said:

Can you explain thinking behind the PPM plays with back to goal for an AMC? How do you set him up with that and how does he play? Sorry if I missed that from before. 

He had that when I joined, it looks like he has history of playing upfront so he either newgenned into the game with it or he picked it up along his career 

As @bosquepoints out, I never saw him play with his back to goal at AMC before I joined or whilst I managed him. I guess it doesn't affect the role/ position similar to how "Brings ball out of defence" only seems to affect DCs

[04texag]

I figured this would be a good place to ask for some player advice. It's time to start working on some PPMs for one of my younger AMC guys. He either plays some as a Mezzala in a 433 or as an AMC in a 4231. Due to his lower vision, I often don't have him play as the team's playmaker, he's more of a space explorer, runner, kind of a hybrid creator/scorer. What PPMs would you go for?

 

[De Nile]

On 09/09/2022 at 19:14, 04texag said:

I figured this would be a good place to ask for some player advice. It's time to start working on some PPMs for one of my younger AMC guys. He either plays some as a Mezzala in a 433 or as an AMC in a 4231. Due to his lower vision, I often don't have him play as the team's playmaker, he's more of a space explorer, runner, kind of a hybrid creator/scorer. What PPMs would you go for?

 

If you want him to time his runs like e.g Lampard  you can have arrives late into opposition area, other traits I can think of are: takes long range free kicks(FK and Long Shots), shoots with power(strength), Likes ball played into feet (lacks aerial prowess), Likes to beat offside trap (Anticipation and OTB).

[04texag]

1 hour ago, De Nile said:

If you want him to time his runs like e.g Lampard  you can have arrives late into opposition area, other traits I can think of are: takes long range free kicks(FK and Long Shots), shoots with power(strength), Likes ball played into feet (lacks aerial prowess), Likes to beat offside trap (Anticipation and OTB).

I had not thought of some of these. Curious about the last, as he's not a striker so hadn't thought of that. 

I had thought about moves into channels and plays one twos. 

[zZzZzZzZzZzZzZz]

On 11/09/2022 at 03:30, De Nile said:

Likes ball played into feet (lacks aerial prowess)

That will also reduce the likelihood of balls being played into space for that player to run on to, perhaps more so than reducing aerial balls.. Not a trait I'd want in a player like that, it is more one for playmakers on support duty or slow poachers.

[zZzZzZzZzZzZzZz]

On 09/09/2022 at 20:14, 04texag said:

I figured this would be a good place to ask for some player advice. It's time to start working on some PPMs for one of my younger AMC guys. He either plays some as a Mezzala in a 433 or as an AMC in a 4231. Due to his lower vision, I often don't have him play as the team's playmaker, he's more of a space explorer, runner, kind of a hybrid creator/scorer. What PPMs would you go for?

 

Good technique, flair and decisions makes me think "tries tricks" might be a good choice, it's fun to watch and you'll get to see a few more creative passes and finishes. He has the speed, agility and composure for "likes to round keeper" as well in case he often finds himself in one-on-ones, would compensate for his relatively low finishing as well.

Might consider "uses outside of foot" too, especially if his left foot isn't strong.

 

[04texag]

44 minutes ago, zZzZzZzZzZzZzZz said:

Good technique, flair and decisions makes me think "tries tricks" might be a good choice, it's fun to watch and you'll get to see a few more creative passes and finishes. He has the speed, agility and composure for "likes to round keeper" as well in case he often finds himself in one-on-ones, would compensate for his relatively low finishing as well.

Might consider "uses outside of foot" too, especially if his left foot isn't strong.

 

Thanks I like those first two ideas. His left foot is reasonably strong so don't need that. But, heck even KdB uses the outside of his foot sometimes

[De Nile]

7 hours ago, zZzZzZzZzZzZzZz said:

That will also reduce the likelihood of balls being played into space for that player to run on to, perhaps more so than reducing aerial balls.. Not a trait I'd want in a player like that, it is more one for playmakers on support duty or slow poachers.

Not really it just means the player positions himself in space where it would more often than not be a pass into his feet. This is helpful for when arriving into the box and receiving high passes so he doesn't head it on and rather use his great first touch. The trait doesn't stop other players from playing through balls, it just makes the other players play an appropriate through pass favourably lower than higher.

Edited September 12, 2022 by De Nile

[jdubsnz]

On 06/07/2022 at 22:17, Waseyx said:

It's only been 20 games with the tactic so far but it's playing some incredible football with the Shadow Striker and the AF reaping the benefits. Lots of one twos and flowing moves.  I don't know how to make Gifs to show off the football but the first 3 goals in that game were wonderful.

Mallorca v Real Sociedad.pkm 208.19 kB · 6 downloads

Have started having a go with this in my wonderkid save - that SS-DLF combo is very tasty.

[04texag]

3 hours ago, jdubsnz said:

Have started having a go with this in my wonderkid save - that SS-DLF combo is very tasty.

Arsen Zhakaryan was great for me in parts of my Arsenal save.