known issue Youth Intake Broken Just Like Beta

[LolloViola]

5 ore fa, blejdek ha scritto:

Can u tell me how do you see this ? Or can you write it in steps so I can see for myself?  Pretty please

https://steamdb.info/app/1263850/depots/

[ratio1618]

Maybe patch today, potentially the 6047115 build

[Samelders]

2 hours ago, ratio1618 said:

Maybe patch today, potentially the 6047115 build

They are testing. Thats a good sign. Thank you bro. Will sleep better now. 

[Daveincid]

Testing time;)

[Neil Brock]

There have been no further changes to youth and newgen intakes. 

As stated here the issue has largely been addressed - https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/539021-youth-intake-broken-just-like-beta/?do=findComment&comment=12857682

There are a couple of outstanding smaller issues as noted by Andrew James which are still being investigated for a future update - https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/539021-youth-intake-broken-just-like-beta/?do=findComment&comment=12858627

Thanks. 

[ratio1618]

7 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

There have been no further changes to youth and newgen intakes. 

As stated here the issue has largely been addressed - https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/539021-youth-intake-broken-just-like-beta/?do=findComment&comment=12857682

There are a couple of outstanding smaller issues as noted by Andrew James which are still being investigated for a future update - https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/539021-youth-intake-broken-just-like-beta/?do=findComment&comment=12858627

Thanks. 

You got to be  joking.....

[Neil Brock]

Just now, ratio1618 said:

You got to be  joking.....

As has been seen in the analysis the numbers of players in games remains much more stable over time. There are some issues outstanding as Andrew suggested which will require additional investigation, but these are largely affecting very low standard players in non-active leagues. It's still something which is being worked on with the aim of further improvements in a future update.  

[ratio1618]

Just now, Neil Brock said:

As has been seen in the analysis the numbers of players in games remains much more stable over time. There are some issues outstanding as Andrew suggested which will require additional investigation, but these are largely affecting very low standard players in non-active leagues. It's still something which is being worked on with the aim of further improvements in a future update.  

People arent going to be happy about this at all.

[Daveincid]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Neil Brock:

As has been seen in the analysis the numbers of players in games remains much more stable over time. There are some issues outstanding as Andrew suggested which will require additional investigation, but these are largely affecting very low standard players in non-active leagues. It's still something which is being worked on with the aim of further improvements in a future update.  

Thank you for all the work of you guys! Finally looking forward to start a save

[ratio1618]

3 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

Thank you for all the work of you guys! Finally looking forward to start a save

They havent touched newgens since the last patch so it wont be any different to a save you could have started tommorow. I guess Fm21 is the first year i buy it without playing it, what a shame.

[Platinum]

17 minutes ago, ratio1618 said:

They havent touched newgens since the last patch so it wont be any different to a save you could have started tommorow. I guess Fm21 is the first year i buy it without playing it, what a shame.

Whats your usual game setup?

[ratio1618]

2 minutes ago, francis#17 said:

Whats your usual game setup?

Advanced Db with players from every confed as well as custom fmfs small DB overall. 

[Platinum]

12 minutes ago, ratio1618 said:

Advanced Db with players from every confed as well as custom fmfs small DB overall. 

If your computer can handle it try playing with at least one league as playable from each nation so you get a larger number of players from each nation.

[ratio1618]

i'd rather just play something else then wait for 10 minutes per day on my ryzen 2600. Pretty defeated and disenfranchised atm ngl

[Platinum]

13 hours ago, ratio1618 said:

i'd rather just play something else then wait for 10 minutes per day on my ryzen 2600. Pretty defeated and disenfranchised atm ngl

With that processor it shouldnt actually take that long. What really slows down the game is Full Detail matches which you can disable (and will be disabled by default). I would say go for it

[1891]

So I guess in Sports Interactives world it's to be considered normal that countries like Argentina, Finland, Serbia and many more will only generate 5-6 newgens a year, when it's view-only and additional players are loaded...

[calvg]

15 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

There have been no further changes to youth and newgen intakes. 

As stated here the issue has largely been addressed - https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/539021-youth-intake-broken-just-like-beta/?do=findComment&comment=12857682

There are a couple of outstanding smaller issues as noted by Andrew James which are still being investigated for a future update - https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/539021-youth-intake-broken-just-like-beta/?do=findComment&comment=12858627

Thanks. 

Thanks for update Neil, appreciate the issue is still on the radar and such tweaks would need intensive testing and balancing to avoid the issues that have occurred earlier in fm21.

[ATV]

22 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

There have been no further changes to youth and newgen intakes. 

As stated here the issue has largely been addressed - https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/539021-youth-intake-broken-just-like-beta/?do=findComment&comment=12857682

There are a couple of outstanding smaller issues as noted by Andrew James which are still being investigated for a future update - https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/539021-youth-intake-broken-just-like-beta/?do=findComment&comment=12858627

Thanks. 

was there confirmation that it has been fixed?

 

largely addressed doesn't mean fixed - does it? maybe I have read it wrong.

[Platinum]

2 hours ago, ATV said:

was there confirmation that it has been fixed?

 

largely addressed doesn't mean fixed - does it? maybe I have read it wrong.

Depending on what your game setup is it either will or wont affect you

[deivis10]

hace 15 horas, francis#17 dijo:

Dependiendo de la configuración de tu juego, te afectará o no

What configuration is recommended for a large number of regens to appear all over the world?

[Slow-match]

When creating a Career, you can include players from individual divisions in the Database.

Will this help avoid reducing the number of players in divisions loaded in this way?

Edited January 12, 2021 by Slow-match

[Platinum]

On 09/01/2021 at 14:05, deivis10 said:

What configuration is recommended for a large number of regens to appear all over the world?

Dont use any additional db options and the problem either wont occur or wont be as bad

[ATV]

would downloading a DB that has every countries youth rating as 200 generate more newgens?

[Bigpole]

2 hours ago, Slow-match said:

When creating a Career, you can include players from individual divisions in the Database. An example is shown in the illustration below:

Will this help avoid reducing the number of players in divisions loaded in this way?

no, because you've adding additional players through advanced database anyway.

 

1 hour ago, ATV said:

would downloading a DB that has every countries youth rating as 200 generate more newgens?

this kind of database would bump potential ability of the newgens, not the number.

[freddieos]

3 hours ago, ATV said:

would downloading a DB that has every countries youth rating as 200 generate more newgens?

haha, no. But it would ruin the game.

+that's not a db, it's a mod.

Edited January 10, 2021 by freddieos

[Dyllan]

So, this is no longer a bug but a "feature"?

I usually play long term game by selecting England (and a couple of more major nations) as playable and all the other leagues on view-only with a custom database around 100 000 players. 

I guess that's a no-go now?

How should I setup now? I have a 5900X but prefer speed, which the above solution gave me.

I guess I should go with large database and add more nations as playable. Can I still keep the rest as view-only? What is the dowsnside to adding a custom database as oppose to large?

[Bigpole]

1 hour ago, Dyllan said:

So, this is no longer a bug but a "feature"?

I usually play long term game by selecting England (and a couple of more major nations) as playable and all the other leagues on view-only with a custom database around 100 000 players. 

I guess that's a no-go now?

How should I setup now? I have a 5900X but prefer speed, which the above solution gave me.

I guess I should go with large database and add more nations as playable. Can I still keep the rest as view-only? What is the dowsnside to adding a custom database as oppose to large?

Small/Medium/Large database are 'default' databases with standard players added and additional depending what playable leagues you've chosen. Custom database helps you loading players from specific leagues/countries/continents. My setup is usually all players from the country I'm managing in (Poland/France/Germany), and all continents as below (apart from loaded leagues obviously)

[Novem9]

To clarify, I use 20 leagues in 12 countries as usual. If I will use the same for 21.2 can I expect nonplayable countries like Brazil, Argentina, Croatia will have a newgens for national team at least? just like it was in fm20 (as I remember), or it really worse for a long save?

[lukavski]

They will have a full National Team. Probably only top teams will have a full line-up in the region, but in five years or so, non of them will have managers, and the same will happen to low tier european leagues. Only the three or two top teams from well known leagues will continue to hire managers in "view-only" or "nonplayable" countries, don't expect one in clubs like Malmo, Zenit, etc.

 

Once I didn't load Germany and Dortmund wouldn't hire a manager for years...

[Novem9]

2 минуты назад, lukavski сказал:

They will have a full National Team. Probably only top teams will have a full line-up in the region, but in five years or so, non of them will have managers, and the same will happen to low tier european leagues. Only the three or two top teams from well known leagues will continue to hire managers in "view-only" or "nonplayable" countries, don't expect one in clubs like Malmo, Zenit, etc.

 

Once I didn't load Germany and Dortmund wouldn't hire a manager for years...

But it was in fm20 too? For example, I use EPL and Championship, so club from Skybet League 1 promoted higher, but they hired manager just after moved in playable league. I guess this is just how system works? 

[lukavski]

Only playable league clubs will ALWAYS hire managers, and sometimes low tier "unplayable" clubs with high reputation from loaded countries, specially in England. 

We know SI loves their England.

 

But, for example, if you don't load Ukraine, in three or four years Shakhtar will fire their manager and never hire again. This makes continental competitions and world simulation a little weird.

 

Yeah FM20 was the same. Important clubs from unplayable leagues would be managerless in four or five years, and never hire again.

[freddieos]

1 hour ago, lukavski said:

Malmo, Zenit, etc.

Sweet that Malmo is one of your go-to clubs for reputable teams outside the big leagues! 

[Zevenox]

I only heard about this still being an issue yesterday. Now this is a huge bummer for me since I recently started a Journeyman which I (rather obviously) wanted to be a long-term save. Three years in now I noticed the same thing many people wrote in here as well: Non-loaded countries, especially those not in the standard database will produce very few new players if any at all (I've got the European countries from Timo in my setup btw, albeit not all are loaded).

I decided to take a look at this myself in a simulation with only the Bundesliga loaded and as expected the other countries didn't really get new players anymore a few years in. England for example only had around 5 (!) new players every year according to the youth intake section of the transfers screen. I also noticed that newgens seemed to be very strangely distributed across teams in lower leagues. In Germany 5 or 6 lower league teams would get a yearly youth intake of like 10 players each with most other teams getting none. I'm pretty sure this was different in the older versions.

But this is what interests me: How much does this whole situation really differ from the older games? I do recall things like teams from leagues that weren't loaded not hiring new managers or even going playerless a few years in from FM20. I remember the situation of Ludogorets playing in the CL without any "non-grey" players in my FM20 journeyman after ~10 years. Unfortunately I never bothered to look into stuff like whether or not smaller/"weaker" countries would consistently generate newgens on FM20 (I haven't got the save anymore because of a new PC, otherwise I would have looked it up now), so I'd really like to know how different this situation is between FM21 and the former versions. Did countries like let's say Afghanistan get newgens every year on those games?

I'd really love to continue my save, especially since FM21 is lots of fun for me! If this situation is considerably different (i.e. worse) than in FM20 this would kinda ruin the fun for me, though...

 

[Novem9]

10 часов назад, Zevenox сказал:

I only heard about this still being an issue yesterday. Now this is a huge bummer for me since I recently started a Journeyman which I (rather obviously) wanted to be a long-term save. Three years in now I noticed the same thing many people wrote in here as well: Non-loaded countries, especially those not in the standard database will produce very few new players if any at all (I've got the European countries from Timo in my setup btw, albeit not all are loaded).

I decided to take a look at this myself in a simulation with only the Bundesliga loaded and as expected the other countries didn't really get new players anymore a few years in. England for example only had around 5 (!) new players every year according to the youth intake section of the transfers screen. I also noticed that newgens seemed to be very strangely distributed across teams in lower leagues. In Germany 5 or 6 lower league teams would get a yearly youth intake of like 10 players each with most other teams getting none. I'm pretty sure this was different in the older versions.

But this is what interests me: How much does this whole situation really differ from the older games? I do recall things like teams from leagues that weren't loaded not hiring new managers or even going playerless a few years in from FM20. I remember the situation of Ludogorets playing in the CL without any "non-grey" players in my FM20 journeyman after ~10 years. Unfortunately I never bothered to look into stuff like whether or not smaller/"weaker" countries would consistently generate newgens on FM20 (I haven't got the save anymore because of a new PC, otherwise I would have looked it up now), so I'd really like to know how different this situation is between FM21 and the former versions. Did countries like let's say Afghanistan get newgens every year on those games?

I'd really love to continue my save, especially since FM21 is lots of fun for me! If this situation is considerably different (i.e. worse) than in FM20 this would kinda ruin the fun for me, though...

 

I'm in the same position - have an epic plan for journeyman in FM21 but still waiting for fix this issue (or just to take decision because for now conflicting information from members) and issue of clubs no sign managers in period of ~20 May - 20 June (exist in FM20 too)

Concerning newgens, I have a save in 2022 Nov which I check right now. 45k DB (20 leagues in 12 countries, 8 countries are playable). Best clubs of non-loaded countries have some newgens, some more, some less. I started this save in 21.2, just few lowest countries in UEFA Rating have no newgens as I can see. I had a diversity of nations in FM20 (for the same DB) and as first impression it will be the same in FM21 current balance. Probably it could be little more newgens, but balance is fragile. Also as you can see the graph few pages ago, in long perspective 21.2 is better 20.4

Also take into account my save's DB is pretty small, which I use for playing by my favourite club. DB of 60-80k + is more appropriate for journeyman so I'm positive  

Edited January 13, 2021 by Novem9

[Zevenox]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Novem9:

I'm in the same position - have an epic plan for journeyman in FM21 but still waiting for fix this issue (or just to take decision because for now conflicting information from members) and issue of clubs no sign managers in period of ~20 May - 20 June (exist in FM20 too)

Concerning newgens, I have a save in 2022 Nov which I check right now. 45k DB (20 leagues in 12 countries, 8 countries are playable). Best clubs of non-loaded countries have some newgens, some more, some less. I started this save in 21.2, just few lowest countries in UEFA Rating have no newgens as I can see. I had a diversity of nations in FM20 (for the same DB) and as first impression it will be the same in FM21 current balance. Probably it could be little more newgens, but balance is fragile. Also as you can see the graph few pages ago, in long perspective 21.2 is better 20.4

Also take into account my save's DB is pretty small, which I use for playing by my favourite club. DB of 60-80k + is more appropriate for journeyman so I'm positive  

Thanks for your answer!

I just reinstalled FM20 to take a look and holidayed through a few seasons with the same setup (Bundesliga only) to see how much it differed from what I saw on FM21. It looked pretty similar tbh. Most other countries wouldn't generate new players (or maybe like 3 or 4 every few years), but I still felt that there were more players generated, especially since they seemed distributed better in the lower leagues of Germany,

So I feel like I might just continue my save on FM21 since the situation doesn't seem too different from my (awesome) Journeyman-experience on FM20. If anybody can tell me which problems concerning the youth intakes might still hinder my enjoyment, please tell me! I wouldn't want to continue for a few more years just to find out there is a huge problem I didn't know about

[lukavski]

Don't expect a fix for this.

Every FM version has been the same. A lot of players prefer short games, one or two years before starting a new one.

Now, with the increase in FM addicts population, the world simulation has been further tested. This has arisen all the thread's questions.

 

So, to simplify the matter I will try to write what to expect based on my own experience of the game.

 

1. All (non-custom) playable leagues will hire managers and will have a full line-up. But, if you load a very low level custom league, like division 6 in any given country, you may have a few teams with grey players due to low reputation numbers in clubs.

 

2. Custom playable leagues will depend on the database you load. If you don't use a players' database, the game will fill clubs with mostly bad newgens, so you will have to wait some years for that league and clubs to be competitive. But they will have a complete line-up.

 

3. Non-Playable (non-custom) leagues will start with their full line-ups if you configure that option through advance database, but in time they will gradually lose all or most of their players, especially clubs in mid-low tier countries. And they will not hire any manager after sacking their former. This is the main problem of this thread. This disrupts the feeling and simulation of the game for some of us.

 

So, one year, say 2025, you will be playing against a good swedish club, like Malmo, on Champions League group stage, and you will notice that they don't have a manager, or their line-up is full of grey players. And then you will start wondering, searching, hoping this is only a Malmo bug, and every other club have at least a manager. And no. They don't. The Europa League winner doesn't have one. You even notice their goalkeeper is grey, and that's only the beginning, because if their goalkeeper has gone grey, then all their friends will soon follow. Euro Cup II winner and runner-up are a lost cause. No manager, at least six grey players each. They won't ever have a chance of succeding in any continental competition again. EVER.

Except maybe Europe League II, Asian Champions League, African Champions League, World Club Cup, Copa Sudamericana, etc, where you will consistently see two managerless half-grey clubs battling on the finals.

And what's left? Only loaded leagues will start dominating competitions. No more surprises. You loaded Germany, France, England and Spain. That is the limit of your world. It is not alive: it is restrained. Those countries will always be on top. Boring games until you reach Champions leagues' Quarter Finals.

You will lie to yourself saying that only your league matters, but that is not true, because the heart of a simulation is the possibility of being surprised by it. And that cannot be limited to your own league. Because knowing that you will ALWAYS see the same four countries winning at continental tournaments is enough to, at least, obscure the experience.

 

4. Non-Playable (custom). This is hell. If you didn't add players with the custom file, you will get full grey-player and managerless clubs from the beginning. Only clubs with very high reputation (6000+) will hire some (4 or 5) players through the game.

 

Edit

A piece of advice:

 

If you are like me and want a more alive, fluid world, but you don't have a great CPU, then you'll have to give up on details. Download FMT and load all possible leagues. You won't have all Full FM features, but your game will play fast and the simulation will be a lot better.

My downside: I miss you, Japan.

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by lukavski

[freddieos]

great post @lukavski 

[allofyourtears]

i m playing build a nation challenge save in turkey currently at 34/35 season, other turkish clubs were getting 5-7 regens every year my team was getting 15-17 until 10th season but after that all the clubs are getting only 2 regens every year except my team i m still getting 15-17 ,even some non playable leagues  are getting more regens than turkey.  it is annoying for a long term save.i tried saving game at 9th march added managers for 3 different teams in the league and all of the teams got 16 regens like my team, i loaded the game and didnt add any managers this time all 3 teams got 2 regens as always so there is a big problem with ai managed teams producing regens even in playable leagues i m waiting for the fix asap like every other long term fm player.

i can upload save if needed

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by allofyourtears

[Platinum]

5 hours ago, allofyourtears said:

i m playing build a nation challenge save in turkey currently at 34/35 season, other turkish clubs were getting 5-7 regens every year my team was getting 15-17 until 10th season but after that all the clubs are getting only 2 regens every year except my team i m still getting 15-17 ,even some non playable leagues  are getting more regens than turkey.  it is annoying for a long term save.i tried saving game at 9th march added managers for 3 different teams in the league and all of the teams got 16 regens like my team, i loaded the game and didnt add any managers this time all 3 teams got 2 regens as always so there is a big problem with ai managed teams producing regens even in playable leagues i m waiting for the fix asap like every other long term fm player.

i can upload save if needed

 

I think it might be because the AI managers aren't offering youth contracts to enough of the youth intake players

[allofyourtears]

1 hour ago, francis#17 said:

I think it might be because the AI managers aren't offering youth contracts to enough of the youth intake players

it happens in first day of youth intake players doesnt even appear ,i dont think it is about youth contracts .game is just not producing youth players under ai control

[Platinum]

3 hours ago, allofyourtears said:

it happens in first day of youth intake players doesnt even appear ,i dont think it is about youth contracts .game is just not producing youth players under ai control

Interesting, so AI managers just get more youth intake players generated

[priority76]

11 hours ago, allofyourtears said:

i m playing build a nation challenge save in turkey currently at 34/35 season, other turkish clubs were getting 5-7 regens every year my team was getting 15-17 until 10th season but after that all the clubs are getting only 2 regens every year except my team i m still getting 15-17 ,even some non playable leagues  are getting more regens than turkey.  it is annoying for a long term save.i tried saving game at 9th march added managers for 3 different teams in the league and all of the teams got 16 regens like my team, i loaded the game and didnt add any managers this time all 3 teams got 2 regens as always so there is a big problem with ai managed teams producing regens even in playable leagues i m waiting for the fix asap like every other long term fm player.

i can upload save if needed

Yep,  I've done a little test and Turkey seems pretty screwed.

Added Turkey (super lig only) as playable league in year 2122.  Players based in Turkey 9900.  Went forward to year 2138 and player count is down to 3820.  Turkish teams only take in 2-3 youth players and only top tier teams generate players.

[Gee_Simpson]

1 hour ago, priority76 said:

Yep,  I've done a little test and Turkey seems pretty screwed.

Added Turkey (super lig only) as playable league in year 2122.  Players based in Turkey 9900.  Went forward to year 2138 and player count is down to 3820.  Turkish teams only take in 2-3 youth players and only top tier teams generate players.

Wow, and that's with the Turkish league loaded, that's really worrying.

[allofyourtears]

17 hours ago, priority76 said:

Yep,  I've done a little test and Turkey seems pretty screwed.

Added Turkey (super lig only) as playable league in year 2122.  Players based in Turkey 9900.  Went forward to year 2138 and player count is down to 3820.  Turkish teams only take in 2-3 youth players and only top tier teams generate players.

is it too hard to fix ? i tested it controlled teams generates 15-17 regens and ai teams generates 2-3 ,they just need to make ai teams to generate same number of regens

i hope devs notices this problem

[freddieos]

It's been the nr one issue since the day it launched @allofyourtears, several hotfixes released to combat the problem but still not fixed. They're working on it.

[allofyourtears]

1 minute ago, freddieos said:

It's been the nr one issue since the day it launched @allofyourtears, several hotfixes released to combat the problem but still not fixed. They're working on it.

hope it gets fixed soon

[acidmonkey]

so ive been mucking about with save a little as this has annoyed me a little

so as AI Controlled

teams get 2/3 youth players a year 2033 (my current game year being no different)

i then reloaded to the week before the intake added managers to all prem clubs

with human controls ever club brought in 18 new youth players?

also seems if i add a manager but retire them before the actuall intake day  the intake is again approx 18 players

 

not sure if this is any use or just pointless i have a save from the week before the intake if needed

[lukavski]

So, it seems is related to the "managerless" clubs problem. No playable Clubs, and some low reputation leagues, won't hire any manager after sacking the one they start with in the game. And it looks like clubs without a manager won't get a full intake.

[acidmonkey]

2 minutes ago, lukavski said:

So, it seems is related to the "managerless" clubs problem. No playable Clubs, and some low reputation leagues, won't hire any manager after sacking the one they start with in the game. And it looks like clubs without a manager won't get a full intake.

not my case it seems (might be wrong) im playing in the premier league and all have permanant managers

[lukavski]

You will always have permanent managers in playable leagues like the Premier. That is not the problem in this thread.

Edited January 23, 2021 by lukavski