Manchester City Pep Guardiola Tactic Recreation

[FreezingTable]

@el tren

Totally agree. Why can’t the AML/R stay wide and high, lined up with the offside line or last defender. Often you will see Mahrez and Stering as the most dangerous goal treath. 

Sorry for bad English 

[kpsia518]

22 minutes ago, Jyuan83 said:

The key to guardiola’s man city team is in getting the wingers to stretch the defence for the channels to open up for the two “8”s in david silva and bernardo to exploit with their runs and passing. The wingers also exploit the gaps between the fb and cb and either score goals from good passes from the two playmakers or to cutback across goal for a tap-in. The wingers only enter the box when a killing blow is imminent. From the vid by @kpsia518 sane stayed wide as much as possible until the last possible moment so that the channels remains stretched for the maximum possible exploitation by the playmakers. I would just go with ML/R and put them as roam and stay wider with wm(a). AML/R will always converge too early. Those are wide striker spots anyway.

& another thing:

https://spielverlagerung.com/2017/08/04/tactical-theory-the-various-methods-of-dismarking/

use the 3rd man...

[kpsia518]

 

[Amarante]

34 minutes ago, Jyuan83 said:

The key to guardiola’s man city team is in getting the wingers to stretch the defence for the channels to open up for the two “8”s in david silva and bernardo to exploit with their runs and passing. The wingers also exploit the gaps between the fb and cb and either score goals from good passes from the two playmakers or to cutback across goal for a tap-in. The wingers only enter the box when a killing blow is imminent. From the vid by @kpsia518 sane stayed wide as much as possible until the last possible moment so that the channels remains stretched for the maximum possible exploitation by the playmakers. I would just go with ML/R and put them as roam and stay wider with wm(a). AML/R will always converge too early. Those are wide striker spots anyway.

This. I am playing as Salford City and i have created my own version of Pep's tactic.  By having the ML/R with a winger/inverted winger with TI set to play sightly wider  you can create the movement that you seek. 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Amarante

[Mitja]

1 hour ago, el tren said:

Still, if i set up a 'Extremely Wide' tactic and set my AML/R on 'Stay Wide', i would want these players to actually be as wide as possible, i.e. more or less hug the line for most phases. Pretty much unless the ball is on the other side of the pitch and the oppositions defense line moved towards that side, and a cross or quick pass and therefore a goal threat is imminent. Otherwise these options, checkboxes and whatnot are more decoration than an actual content, as they don't seem to matter.

that was behaviour of AML/R until at least fm17 (didn't play 18) it's really hard to watch them just parking in the box with striker and not moving from the spot. 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Mitja

[FreezingTable]

A big problem in FM19 is that you cant make the central defender run or push up with the ball in its feet, as you can see in the videos above. Makes a big difference!

 In fm now the central defenders is just a defender and a support-player for a pass, they do not walk with the ball or tries to be patient and wait for the attacking players to come in their positions.

[yonko]

1 hour ago, FreezingTable said:

A big problem in FM19 is that you cant make the central defender run or push up with the ball in its feet, as you can see in the videos above. Makes a big difference!

 In fm now the central defenders is just a defender and a support-player for a pass, they do not walk with the ball or tries to be patient and wait for the attacking players to come in their positions.

CB with "Bring Ball Out Of Defense" player trait. Try it.

At Barca Pique has it and I had Umtiti learn it. I see both regularly carry the ball from the back into midfield when there is space to do so.

If you use HB-D in front of them, the CD split nicely and pretty much always have space to dribble. 

[mp_87]

If I had to do a full post of the tactic and all instructions and talking points I'd be here half the night and haven't got the time right now (though if people want to discuss it will reply as I can over the next few days), but will say that my template has been for various editions of the game:

SWK(s)

FB* CD(st) CD(st) FB*

WM(a) CM(s) BWM(d) CM(s) WM(a)

DLF(s)

Fullback positions are dependent on what the wide players are doing.

It's been trickier work in the last couple of ME's, but I've been very happy with the replication and how the football plays.

 

[kpsia518]

https://defendingwiththeball.wordpress.com/tag/pep-guardiola/

“Don’t mark a player; cover the space between two players. The opponent thinks he’s unmarked, making pressing easier.” Pep Guardiola’s mantras

 

[FreezingTable]

Have someone managed to make a tactic similar to Pep's?

[craiigman]

Check out City's passing map/in possession map

[ramie]

On 17/11/2018 at 15:13, Amarante said:

This. I am playing as Salford City and i have created my own version of Pep's tactic.  By having the ML/R with a winger/inverted winger with TI set to play sightly wider  you can create the movement that you seek. 

Looks good, did you use any PI's?

[Amarante]

3 hours ago, ramie said:

Looks good, did you use any PI's?

none. 

[ramie]

49 minutes ago, Amarante said:

none. 

 

51 minutes ago, Amarante said:

none. 

Nice man And what about team width? You said you set to slightly wide but it isnt set like that in your SS. 

[Amarante]

2 minutes ago, ramie said:

 

Nice man And what about team width? You said you set to slightly wide but it isnt set like that in your SS. 

On positive for some weird reason, you can either be slightly wide or slightly narrow. Slightly wide would be Standard on Balance. The mentality affects how wide or narrow your team is. 

screenshot in coming. 

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by Amarante

[ramie]

2 minutes ago, Amarante said:

On positive for some weird reason, you can either be slightly wide or slightly narrow. Slightly wide would be Standard on Balance. The mentality affects how wide or narrow your team is. 

screenshot in coming. 

 

Oh yeah I see that now

[Amarante]

[Ivan787]

35 minuti fa, Amarante ha scritto:

I'm not sure about "Be More Expressive". I know that Guardiola wants that his players follow the playing rules, at least in the build-up phase and in positioning.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Ivan787

[Amarante]

1 minute ago, Ivan787 said:

I'm not sure about "Be More Expressive". I know that Guardiola wants that his players follow the playing rules, at least in the build-up phase and in positioning.

That is true but that instructions will encourage your players to make creative passes when trying to unlock the defense. What you must aim for in FM is not to replicate the exact system but the philosophy. 

[FreezingTable]

Guardiola has a very strict setup until the final third, then the players gets freedom and can do what they want!

[Amarante]

Just now, FreezingTable said:

Guardiola has a very strict setup until the final third, then the players gets freedom and can do what they want!

But you can't replicate this in FM. 

[Ivan787]

9 minuti fa, Amarante ha scritto:

But you can't replicate this in FM. 

Yes, this is the main issue about replicating this tactic. Before positional, before fluidity, i my opinion the most difficult thing to replicate is the "double freedom". You should be able to set a very low creative freedom for some players, and very high for others. For example Ederson is one of the player with more creative freedom in the team: the general philosophy is bulding from the back but Ederson can try long free kick (so opposite to the philosophy) to find Aguero (as in the first goal against Huddersfield).

I think that the only way to try to achieve this is managing PPMs.

[FreezingTable]

Mabey not, but the “be more expressive” is under final third so it should only be “active” there. 

[yonko]

3 hours ago, Ivan787 said:

Yes, this is the main issue about replicating this tactic. Before positional, before fluidity, i my opinion the most difficult thing to replicate is the "double freedom". You should be able to set a very low creative freedom for some players, and very high for others. For example Ederson is one of the player with more creative freedom in the team: the general philosophy is bulding from the back but Ederson can try long free kick (so opposite to the philosophy) to find Aguero (as in the first goal against Huddersfield).

I think that the only way to try to achieve this is managing PPMs.

Emerson's long kicks are not opposite to Pep's philosophy. Guardiola is also about the right decisions at the right time. So when being pressed high and hard by the opposition it opens that option for long pass out of the back and therefore Ederson makes the right decision, which is still within Pep's rules for building out of the back. It's about recognizing the option and taking it at the right time.

[kpsia518]

https://thefalsefullback.wordpress.com/2018/11/22/the-essence-of-possession/

 

 

[cocoadavid]

I may be not wrong if I say that in the current FM19 ME many of us are struggling to create many quality chances and goals from open play via playing out from the back and then playing a through ball in the final third. Using the similar principles I have already mentioned in this thread some time ago, inspired by Guardiola, and after a lot of trial and error, I have finally managed to score 2 beatiful goals in the same game, patiently built up from the back, and then a through ball at the end.

 

In order to achieve this kind of build up play I had to go a little overkill with reducing the risky passes.
Using a defensive mentality and shorter passing, I ticked Take Fewer Risks for every player where I could.

However when the new ME comes out chances are (or at least I really hope so) this extreme kind of reduction of passing riskiness won't be necessary.

 

[FreezingTable]

True. At this point in Fm you have to do so many changes and tweaks to make things work, but then the tactic and PI’s don’t even make sense.

Just doing different thing and small changes, then watch how the player is playing, thats the only way. 

No logic in the end.

[cocoadavid]

13 minutes ago, FreezingTable said:

True. At this point in Fm you have to do so many changes and tweaks to make things work, but then the tactic and PI’s don’t even make sense.

Just doing different thing and small changes, then watch how the player is playing, thats the only way. 

No logic in the end.

Yeah, this is exactly what I did. After the matches I looked at the analysis screen and rewatched the majority of the events where my players lost the ball.

The 3 most common cases were (with these TIs ticked: balanced mentality, lower tempo, shorter passing and Play Out of Def): 
- regular central defenders  chose the more risky and longer passing option to a forward or winger despite having a teammate standing nearby and totally unmarked. My defenders has great mental (composure, decision, teamwork) and decent passing attributes (passing, vision) and no contradicting traits. In order to solve this I had to tick Take Fewer Risks  and reduce mentality to Defending.
- central midfielders with More Risky Passes too often chose an extremely difficult and long lateral(not vertical!) pass to the Winger on the other side of the pitch that could easily be intercepted by an opposiiton player  - despite having other clear an easier options. And no, he doesn't have the Like to Switch Flank trait. No matter what mentality I chose he still tends to do this, to reduce this problem I had to abandon using a wide attacking width, so at least the succes rate of these passes are greater now. I also disabled more risky passes.
- As soon as my Inverted Winger felt that there is tiny chance to make a pass into space for my striker (who is on support duty and was not even  making a run behind the defence), he passed the ball into space. Since my striker did not anticipate that pass, many times the defenders got the ball at the end.  Thus I had to tick Take Fewer Risks again.

After reviewing these highlights it was clear why the Pass Completion Ratio is 7-9% lower compared to real life statistics. In most of my saves top teams and/or possession oriented teams have a Pass Completition Ratio around 78-80%, while in real life - according to whoscored.com - the best 15 teams (in terms of passing) in Europe have it over 85%, with top teams reaching  89%. This is espacially sad to me, because I don't care about high possession, but i care about the Pass Completition Ratio. 

Another weird thing that wide players dwell on the ball for too long before attempting a cross, so I also had to tick Hit Early Crosses to reduce the time they spend on dwelling. Of course Hit Early Crosses does not make any sense in Guardiola/possession based tactics, I would definitely use Work Ball Into Box instead, but this is just how the current ME works... ticking Hit Early Crosses does not make your players actuallly hit crosses from deep (as it should, and for example in FM18 it worked like a charm). I only tick it so players cross more normally.

[Gegenklaus]

22 minutes ago, cocoadavid said:

Yeah, this is exactly what I did. After the matches I looked at the analysis screen and rewatched the majority of the events where my players lost the ball.

The 3 most common cases were (with these TIs ticked: balanced mentality, lower tempo, shorter passing and Play Out of Def): 
- regular central defenders  chose the more risky and longer passing option to a forward or winger despite having a teammate standing nearby and totally unmarked. My defenders has great mental (composure, decision, teamwork) and decent passing attributes (passing, vision) and no contradicting traits. In order to solve this I had to tick Take Fewer Risks  and reduce mentality to Defending.
- central midfielders with More Risky Passes too often chose an extremely difficult and long lateral(not vertical!) pass to the Winger on the other side of the pitch that could easily be intercepted by an opposiiton player  - despite having other clear an easier options. And no, he doesn't have the Like to Switch Flank trait. No matter what mentality I chose he still tends to do this, to reduce this problem I had to abandon using a wide attacking width, so at least the succes rate of these passes are greater now. I also disabled more risky passes.
- As soon as my Inverted Winger felt that there is tiny chance to make a pass into space for my striker (who is on support duty and was not even  making a run behind the defence), he passed the ball into space. Since my striker did not anticipate that pass, many times the defenders got the ball at the end.  Thus I had to tick Take Fewer Risks again.

After reviewing these highlights it was clear why the Pass Completion Ratio is 7-9% lower compared to real life statistics. In most of my saves top teams and/or possession oriented teams have a Pass Completition Ratio around 78-80%, while in real life - according to whoscored.com - the best 15 teams (in terms of passing) in Europe have it over 85%, with top teams reaching  89%. This is espacially sad to me, because I don't care about high possession, but i care about the Pass Completition Ratio. 

Another weird thing that wide players dwell on the ball for too long before attempting a cross, so I also had to tick Hit Early Crosses to reduce the time they spend on dwelling. Of course Hit Early Crosses does not make any sense in Guardiola/possession based tactics, I would definitely use Work Ball Into Box instead, but this is just how the current ME works... ticking Hit Early Crosses does not make your players actuallly hit crosses from deep (as it should, and for example in FM18 it worked like a charm). I only tick it so players cross more normally.

How do you find the pressing working on that mentality? 

[cocoadavid]

13 minutes ago, Gegenklaus said:

How do you find the pressing working on that mentality? 

The defensive line and LOE are slightly lower compared to a more positive mentality, but if you set those lines to higher/much higher coupled with urgent pressing I think it is still pretty aggressive. There are issues with pressing in the game but SI are well aware of that and are working on it to make it better. 

[Gegenklaus]

9 minutes ago, cocoadavid said:

The defensive line and LOE are slightly lower compared to a more positive mentality, but if you set those lines to higher/much higher coupled with urgent pressing I think it is still pretty aggressive. There are issues with pressing in the game but SI are well aware of that and are working on it to make it better. 

Okay, so the loss in aggressiveness is low. How is your setup with roles and duties? I imagine it is a 4-1-4-1. 

[cristhianlinhatti]

PI: WMs = hold position + stay wider

Edited November 23, 2018 by cristhianlinhatti

[FreezingTable]

They have alot to fix to make the game work properly imo. 

 

[yonko]

7 hours ago, cocoadavid said:

Yeah, this is exactly what I did. After the matches I looked at the analysis screen and rewatched the majority of the events where my players lost the ball.

The 3 most common cases were (with these TIs ticked: balanced mentality, lower tempo, shorter passing and Play Out of Def): 
- regular central defenders  chose the more risky and longer passing option to a forward or winger despite having a teammate standing nearby and totally unmarked. My defenders has great mental (composure, decision, teamwork) and decent passing attributes (passing, vision) and no contradicting traits. In order to solve this I had to tick Take Fewer Risks  and reduce mentality to Defending.
- central midfielders with More Risky Passes too often chose an extremely difficult and long lateral(not vertical!) pass to the Winger on the other side of the pitch that could easily be intercepted by an opposiiton player  - despite having other clear an easier options. And no, he doesn't have the Like to Switch Flank trait. No matter what mentality I chose he still tends to do this, to reduce this problem I had to abandon using a wide attacking width, so at least the succes rate of these passes are greater now. I also disabled more risky passes.
- As soon as my Inverted Winger felt that there is tiny chance to make a pass into space for my striker (who is on support duty and was not even  making a run behind the defence), he passed the ball into space. Since my striker did not anticipate that pass, many times the defenders got the ball at the end.  Thus I had to tick Take Fewer Risks again.

After reviewing these highlights it was clear why the Pass Completion Ratio is 7-9% lower compared to real life statistics. In most of my saves top teams and/or possession oriented teams have a Pass Completition Ratio around 78-80%, while in real life - according to whoscored.com - the best 15 teams (in terms of passing) in Europe have it over 85%, with top teams reaching  89%. This is espacially sad to me, because I don't care about high possession, but i care about the Pass Completition Ratio. 

Another weird thing that wide players dwell on the ball for too long before attempting a cross, so I also had to tick Hit Early Crosses to reduce the time they spend on dwelling. Of course Hit Early Crosses does not make any sense in Guardiola/possession based tactics, I would definitely use Work Ball Into Box instead, but this is just how the current ME works... ticking Hit Early Crosses does not make your players actuallly hit crosses from deep (as it should, and for example in FM18 it worked like a charm). I only tick it so players cross more normally.

Did you try the much shorter passing for the TIs and if yes, what was the outcome? You had no other TIs, correct? Just those you mentioned.

Regarding the Mentality, I said in previous posts that my observations are leading me to believe that Pep has the team play with the fewest risks possible, especially in the build up phase through the first two 3rds of the field. Low risk, low creative freedom - structured and patient. In the final third is when things loosen up for the players. Since Mentality is Risk in FM, I think the lower mentalities are more usable. 

How is your training set up, btw? And do you think it has any effect on the tactic your team plays?

[yonko]

Also, I wanted to drop this excellent view of the last beauty we saw:

Enjoy, analyze and use for inspiration....as much the ME allows....now and after future patch work from SI.

[cocoadavid]

15 hours ago, Gegenklaus said:

Okay, so the loss in aggressiveness is low. How is your setup with roles and duties? I imagine it is a 4-1-4-1. 

I initially started with a 4-1-4-1 but now I'm experimenting with an assymetric 4-4-1-1 because high pressing may work better with this formation. In possession my 4-1-4-1 and 4-4-1-1 almost look exactly the same. In the videos I posted above I used 4-4-1-1.
--------------SKd-----------------
IWd----CDd---CDd----WBa
-------------------------------------
IWs----DLPs--BWMd--WMs/a
---------SSa-------------------------
-------------------DLFs/f9---------

For the 4-1-4-1 the SS becomes a MEZ, my DLPs becomes a CMs in the MCL position, the BWM drops to the central DM position.
 

9 hours ago, yonko said:

Did you try the much shorter passing for the TIs and if yes, what was the outcome? You had no other TIs, correct? Just those you mentioned.

Regarding the Mentality, I said in previous posts that my observations are leading me to believe that Pep has the team play with the fewest risks possible, especially in the build up phase through the first two 3rds of the field. Low risk, low creative freedom - structured and patient. In the final third is when things loosen up for the players. Since Mentality is Risk in FM, I think the lower mentalities are more usable. 

How is your training set up, btw? And do you think it has any effect on the tactic your team plays?

I have not tried much shorter passing yet, it's in my plans. Initially I also used wider attacking width, but I removed it in order to increase the pass completion ratio. 

Regarding the Mentality, I agree with you. Pep likes his team to keep the ball until a really good opportunity comes their way, they are pretty cautious.

My training set up has a great emphasis on what you would associate with possession football (eg. ball retention, attacking patient, transition-press, etc), however I don't focus on it every single week, I'm aiming for a balance. I think that apart from the Match Preparation and Set Piece trainings, training has a long-term effect on how your team plays and suits your tactic, that might be only slightly visible after a year or so.

 

[yonko]

43 minutes ago, cocoadavid said:

I have not tried much shorter passing yet, it's in my plans. Initially I also used wider attacking width, but I removed it in order to increase the pass completion ratio. 

Regarding the Mentality, I agree with you. Pep likes his team to keep the ball until a really good opportunity comes their way, they are pretty cautious.

My training set up has a great emphasis on what you would associate with possession football (eg. ball retention, attacking patient, transition-press, etc), however I don't focus on it every single week, I'm aiming for a balance. I think that apart from the Match Preparation and Set Piece trainings, training has a long-term effect on how your team plays and suits your tactic, that might be only slightly visible after a year or so.

 

I keep the width in the middle of the slider by default. I only increase it slightly if I need to break a team down. I play on the shortest passing setting possible.

In addition to more cautious mentality, I also feel like Pep's style regarding tempo is more on the quicker side. His players rarely take too much time on the ball, unless they are in a 1v1 in the final 3rd. And even then its quick 1v1s. However, in FM possession is calculated differently - based on time spend with the ball, rather than number of passes made as IRL. So the Tempo setting is kind of tricky subject. I tend to leave it on Normal.

Regarding training, of course most of the activities are for long term development. But if you have a game every 3-4 days then there isn't much room for sessions on development. It's more rest, recovery, match prep and not much else. From the Match Prep category only Att.Movement, Def. Shape and Teamwork have effect on the next match. Match Tactics oddly only addresses/benefits tactic familiarity, but not the next match. Set Pieces and the Shadow Plays affect the next match, as well as Team Bonding. So what kind of Match Prep have you been doing?

[cocoadavid]

18 minutes ago, yonko said:

I keep the width in the middle of the slider by default. I only increase it slightly if I need to break a team down. I play on the shortest passing setting possible.

In addition to more cautious mentality, I also feel like Pep's style regarding tempo is more on the quicker side. His players rarely take too much time on the ball, unless they are in a 1v1 in the final 3rd. And even then its quick 1v1s. However, in FM possession is calculated differently - based on time spend with the ball, rather than number of passes made as IRL. So the Tempo setting is kind of tricky subject. I tend to leave it on Normal.

Regarding training, of course most of the activities are for long term development. But if you have a game every 3-4 days then there isn't much room for sessions on development. It's more rest, recovery, match prep and not much else. From the Match Prep category only Att.Movement, Def. Shape and Teamwork have effect on the next match. Match Tactics oddly only addresses/benefits tactic familiarity, but not the next match. Set Pieces and the Shadow Plays affect the next match, as well as Team Bonding. So what kind of Match Prep have you been doing?

I agree with your statement about the tempo. In real life I would describe Pep's style as cautious with slightly higher tempo, he likes to stretch the pitch, and only the players with great 1vs1 ability  (eg. Sané, Mahrez) are allowed to spend more time/run with the ball. And actually this is how I first set up my tactics before analysing my first few FM19 matches. But what works in real life football might not work in the ME and my current team do not have the same quality as City, that is why I lowered the tempo. But in an ideal ME to replicate Pep's style and with quality players at my disposal I would go with cautios mentality, wide attacking width, and slightly higher tempo. I think Pep's teams control the tempo really well, sometimes they increase it, sometimes they lower it, according to the situation.

For the Match Prep I usually go with Attacking Movement (has an impact on passing) or Teamwork (impact on pressing). However when I'm the underdog I may opt for Def. Shape or Def. Set Pieces.

[cristhianlinhatti]

WB(s)/IWB(s) + CB (stay wide) + CB + FB (def) 

create a first line with ball. 

 

Edited November 24, 2018 by cristhianlinhatti

[cristhianlinhatti]

https://streamable.com/n1xrb

[yonko]

16 hours ago, cocoadavid said:

I agree with your statement about the tempo. In real life I would describe Pep's style as cautious with slightly higher tempo, he likes to stretch the pitch, and only the players with great 1vs1 ability  (eg. Sané, Mahrez) are allowed to spend more time/run with the ball. And actually this is how I first set up my tactics before analysing my first few FM19 matches. But what works in real life football might not work in the ME and my current team do not have the same quality as City, that is why I lowered the tempo. But in an ideal ME to replicate Pep's style and with quality players at my disposal I would go with cautios mentality, wide attacking width, and slightly higher tempo. I think Pep's teams control the tempo really well, sometimes they increase it, sometimes they lower it, according to the situation.

For the Match Prep I usually go with Attacking Movement (has an impact on passing) or Teamwork (impact on pressing). However when I'm the underdog I may opt for Def. Shape or Def. Set Pieces.

I think the quality of players is relevant to the level of competition you're playing with. 

For example, if you're playing in the EPL, you need the important attributes for possession (first touch, passing, technique, anticipation, composure, decisions, teamwork, vision, off the ball) to be 14-15+. But if you're a division down those same attributes could be couple of points down, like 12-13+. And so on.

Lowering the tempo also helps with the control of the shooting btw. 

How do you feel about Be More Expressive vs Be More Disciplined? It seems like this edition the former also controls the roaming of the players since that TI has been removed, though it's still available separately as PI. However, I don't feel like Pep's players are roaming all that much. Probably only the ST and the 2 CMs individually or via roles (like MEZ and RPM for example).

It's difficult to pin down because the set up is basically structured and disciplined for the first 2 thirds and then in the final third there is freedom and fluidity (Thierry Henry's famous analysis on Sky before Pep took City job). I think we need to settle on the structured and disciplined part, while leaving the fluidity and freedom of the final third to player roles and individual attributes like vision, flair, off the ball, anticipation, decisions, etc.

But then again, before Pep took over, was anybody thinking of Sterling as the player he is today? I don't think so. Is it training? Is it tactical instructions? Probably both. Right? The Pep effect. Like Spain and Germany, England is benefitting from that now.

[yonko]

Forgot to add

The one thing I'm still not sure about and having hard time with is Pep's pressing style/strategy. That famous 6 seconds rule. 

I think now we have more tools to replicate it but I'm not sure how.

Is it Much Higher D-Line (+offside trap), Much Higher LoE, Extreme Pressing Intensity, but with Regroup Transition when loosing the ball? Or is it High D-Line, High LoE, More Intense Pressing, but with Counter-Pressing transition?

Probably more the latter but pressing is one of the things in the ME I read it needs some tweaking by SI so I'm not sure.

By definition the 6 seconds rule is to press immediately after losing the ball and if your team hasn't won't it then to retreat. Which leads me to believe Counter-Press transition with less extremes for D-Line, LoE and Intensity. But then we have to take into account that we use lower Mentality.

I need to experiment more but the issues with the ME still make me reluctant to do so.

[NabsKebabs]

44 minutes ago, yonko said:

Forgot to add

The one thing I'm still not sure about and having hard time with is Pep's pressing style/strategy. That famous 6 seconds rule. 

I think now we have more tools to replicate it but I'm not sure how.

Is it Much Higher D-Line (+offside trap), Much Higher LoE, Extreme Pressing Intensity, but with Regroup Transition when loosing the ball? Or is it High D-Line, High LoE, More Intense Pressing, but with Counter-Pressing transition?

Probably more the latter but pressing is one of the things in the ME I read it needs some tweaking by SI so I'm not sure.

By definition the 6 seconds rule is to press immediately after losing the ball and if your team hasn't won't it then to retreat. Which leads me to believe Counter-Press transition with less extremes for D-Line, LoE and Intensity. But then we have to take into account that we use lower Mentality.

I need to experiment more but the issues with the ME still make me reluctant to do so.

Definitely not regroup....the whole point of regroup is to not press instantly but drop back into shape first. Counter press means press as soon as you lose the ball.

[retrodude09]

Just to add to this. I would say he's 'Counter Press' but then they retain the ball rather than going for the counter. 

[yonko]

I think I found the key, guys.

The key is "Hold Shape" in the Transition Phase when your team wins the ball. Do not use "Counter".

These two instructions tell your players how to move off the ball when possession is won. Hold Shape creates triangles for quick short passing. I even saw my ST get more involved too. It also helps you with combinations in and around the penalty box.

[sovy666]

1 ora fa, yonko ha scritto:

I think I found the key, guys.

The key is "Hold Shape" in the Transition Phase when your team wins the ball. Do not use "Counter".

These two instructions tell your players how to move off the ball when possession is won. Hold Shape creates triangles for quick short passing. I even saw my ST get more involved too. It also helps you with combinations in and around the penalty box.

I have just finished reading the whole discussion but I have not seen a screenshot of the tactics you are using, do you think to insert one just to better understand the context of what you say?

[Amarante]

Guys some of you have this all wrong. Your trying to recreate Pep's tactic to a T. What you should be trying to do is recreate is philosophy. 

[NabsKebabs]

3 minutes ago, Amarante said:

Guys some of you have this all wrong. Your trying to recreate Pep's tactic to a T. What you should be trying to do is recreate is philosophy. 

Who are you to tell people what they can or can't do?

[yonko]

28 minutes ago, Amarante said:

Guys some of you have this all wrong. Your trying to recreate Pep's tactic to a T. What you should be trying to do is recreate is philosophy. 

I can't speak for others but I'm not trying to recreate his tactic down to a T. It's simply not possible....with any real life tactic. FM is simulation and it has its limitations. Personally I'm well aware of that.

But we can recreate some elements and ideas. Now we have more tools. Unfortunately because of these new tools the ME needs a little tweaking still. However, we are all coming to grips with it little by little.

Specifically, Pep tweaks his tactic and player roles game by game, sometimes within the same game, to achieve control and domination over his opponents. Some elements we will never be able to replicate because they are still too complicate for a game like FM. But I'm OK with that.

Can we just focus on what we can replicate? And can we have people who contribute comments that help others, instead of saying what we can't do?

[Ivan787]

Il 13/11/2018 in 10:15 , Gegenklaus ha scritto:

It also means you can make Sterling into the sort of space investigator with the wide midfielder role. 

Interesting. How do you set his instruction for replicating his real movement?