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Ivan787

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Everything posted by Ivan787

  1. Definitely more more easy to achieve the 2-3-5 pattern using the configuration with Sterling + Mendy on the left and Mahrez on the right.
  2. How about using a flat 3 in midfield to make the two 8s split more in the channel?
  3. I think we have to start from players. Remember that Guardiola style is possible ONLY with very specific players with very specific attribute (and PPM which plays a very important part). I write this because I'm trying to emulate him but with Arsenal (my favourite english team since Invincibles) and I'm struggling about Sokratis. He is a very good marker and tackler but lack in composure, passing, and anticipation. This means that when I ask him to play the ball (CB defend with take fewer risk) his attribute are too much low to manage the ball when pressed, and this lead to a lot of balls lost due to him that clear the ball. The same approach could be used for wingers. I like very much to have wingers with "get into opposite area" as PPM. This means that if the ball is wide on the right I have the opposite winger that is inside the penalty area waiting for the ball. Finally the "come deep to get the ball" for the forward means that you can use an attack duty (so a higher mentality) and still have your player comes deep. About mentality split it depends, I prefer to set a positive mentality and use take fewer risk for IWBs and CBs. Using cautious would give the result of a forward with "defensive" individual mentality that I don't like,
  4. Let me come back to original intent of this thread, which was to try to emulate Pep's tactic and style of play at Man City. After 8 pages of thread we have write a lot of concepts, but it seems that if some aspect are well developed, others still remain dark and hidden. Let's start from what we have assured, and more or less confirmed by Pep in some interviews. 1. Starting line-up is always 4-3-3 which in FM terms could be translated in 4-1-4-1 or 4-1-2-2-1. In my firsts experiments i used 4-1-4-1 by after re-watching some match I'm not convinced to this. Sanè and Sterling track back a lot, but in my opinion they are definitely forwards and not midfielders. I suppose that AML or AMR with high work rate could track back enough. 2. During build-up from keeper the key concept is to have one extra man. If the opponent plays with lone forward, Man City use the two centrebacks and Fernandinho is positioned in front of them, with two inverted wing backs on both sides, in a 2-3 system. If opponent plays with two forwards Fernandinho usually acts like an Half Back, yet with two IWBs, but this time in a 3-2 system. 3. Passing develop is (in this phase) very calmy and safety, with the main target that is to find a player (often De Bruyne or Silva) in the half space. This is more o less what is "fixed" in the first phases of build-up from the back, and is easily replicable. Than all changes, when the ball arrives to the half spaces, suddenly all change: tempo increases, passing risk increases, movement is constant, and players have more creative freedom. Sometimes (often in match against mid-low table team) the attacking pattern is with Sanè on the left and Sterling on the right, but against top team, in particular in the first weeks of the league, the preferred pattern was with Sterling on the left and Mahrez on the right. Against Liverpool it was more similar 3-1 with Silva acting as a true "10", when Mendy plays he can act like a classic "wingback". If you observe well these are all patterns that is possible to create from a 4-1-4-1 or 4-1-2-2-1 lineup. The only thing that is fixed, also in the attack phase, is "a lot of players can ENTER in the penalty area, nobody can STAY in the penalty area". Man City always get at least 3 players in the penalty area, but in the build-up phase nobody is inside.
  5. @herne79 Apologize me, a stupid question: how can I set my player to close down much more? If I open PI for all my players I have the same thing: not possible to tweak. (Is italian, in English is "less pressing").
  6. Agree, but the difficult is obtaining the attacking pattern in different ways, with different action, depending on who are your opponent. Starting formation is always the same, 4-1-4-1 or 4-1-2-2-1 because I'm still evaluating this solution. Than, after kick-off, things changes depending on situation. Let me show below the occupied zone of Carabao Cup game against Burton, with a very experimental setup. 3-3-1-3 pattern.
  7. Let me complicate the things a bit. We are writing from some weeks about 2-3-5 build-up pattern, and this seems the most used in the last period. But is not the only one used. What happens when Mahrez (and Mendy) plays? The things change a lot because Mahrez is left-footed and he plays on the right, so with "inverted foot". Who plays at the right side? Sterling right footed. Sterling cuts inside with a free role, Mendy bombs forwards and the MC should drop deep......again 2-3-5 but different players, different interpretation, different pattern.
  8. I would use this thread as lineguide to develop my "Pep's inspired" playing style. The use of possession to achieve the target is the same, but is different the use of space. I want my AML and AMR players to stay generally wide, and the two MC should move high up in the pitch to form a "line of 4" behind the striker who should drops deep. The final target is a kind of 2-3-5 system. Probably I will try to start from a 4-1-4-1 with ML and MR, hoping that the gap between midfield and forward won't be too large.
  9. Could be this approach used also in "inverted" manner? I have a striker that has "Come deep to get the ball" and I'm thinking of using him with an attack duty, considering that he probably will link the midfield due to his trait.
  10. I quote this posts because I'm finding here a lot of useful information for my goal to emulate Pep tactics at Man City. One of my challenge, that are making me crazy, is trying to replicate your patient build-up but not only between defenders, but also between midfielders. One of the main feature of Guardiola tactics is the ability to pass and pass and pass the ball, in order to find space, but also in the opposite half of the pitch.
  11. Apologize me, I chase the wrong words. I didn't want to say risky but dangerous. The Guardiola's approach need very talented players, in both mental and technical attribute. This means definitely top player. In the build-up phase, when CBs and DM pass the ball and pass the ball they have to be very confident against opponent pressing. Trying to do this approach with the wrong player could lead to lose the balle in a very dangerous zone. In my opinion is significant that against Klopp, Guardiola often found a lot of difficult in applicating his philosophy. This just to say that Guardiola approach is based on the vital concept that you have to dominate the pitch, and your opponent in most cases will sit and wait. If you don't have the player, the squad, the "reputation" (in FM terms) to do this fundamental of his approach, it is very dangerous to applicare this game. If I look at my match I see that often my player was passing the ball and I have all 10 players in the opposite half....imagine a ball lost from Stones or Laporte there.....
  12. Remember that Guardiola style is very risky, defensively speaking and is based on the assumption that your team will be better than the opponent in most of the match. Trying to use that approach in match where is expected to play defensive because the opponent will have the control of the pitch could be a suicide. This tactical style needs very high mental attribute, in order to maintain possession also if pressed. With a build-up pattern of 2-3-5, with very high defensive line, losing the ball, and failing to do first pressing could leave a lot of space for opponent.
  13. Yes, they are coming close to each other. I also use Roam from position for both. Until now I'm much more satisfied about AP-A than AP-S so I'm thinking of changing him to other role. I think that using other role I can improve the movement off the ball, but using playmaker, due to natural "attractive" role of playmaker respect to the ball, I have a lot of passing between two 8s until they found someone (mainly wingers) free.
  14. Yes I'm looking at Raumdeuter too. The only thing I'm a bit doubtful is that is a role available only in AML/AMR position. Probably I will try to recreate a Raumdeuter in ML/MR role.
  15. There are 3 key factors in replicating Guardiola style: squad build up (remember that he need specific player not so common to find on the market), match flexibility, tactical solution (in FM terms). Now we are focusing more on the last aspect, but in the future I think it will be necessary to speak also about the others. I made some tests yesterday and it seems that using playmakers (AP) instead of Mez improve a lot the build-up and the movements in the final third, so thank you very much Kurupted for this idea. Also I think that is founded a solution for the different approach in the build-up (cautious) and in the final third. The key is definitely Individual Mentality: there are a lot of action you can do to have some players in Positive or Offensive mentality even if you are playing with Cautious TI. The first way is using Cautious TI and setting attack duty for both wingers and one AP. Their mentality rises up to Positive. In this particular approach there is the issue about the forward, because if you set him with a support duty his mentality drops down to "defensive" and this means a very low risk in any action he will do. Not really what i want. So there is the "inverse" solution: setting equilibrate or positive mentality and setting defenders and DM with defend duty and "Take fewer risk". Their mentality will drops down below positive, and this could lead to cautious build-up, also mantaing more aggressive plays at wingers and attackers. Personally I like very much to have Silva role as AP-A with roam from position and get further forward, but I'm not still happy about wingers role. I have to decide between wingers(S) and Wide midfielders.
  16. I have to try, because unfortunately during last weeks I have a lot of work so I can't play. But yes, in my opinion is possible and the key should be individual mentality. As you know there is a team mentality, and an individual mentality that could be very different from the one setted with TI. You can play with cautious TI but have a winger on positive mentality. There is a very good tutorial of Rashidi about this. Now i don't have too much time to explain how I think to approach it, but I promise I write some attempts as soon as possible.
  17. I'm very interested in trying the configuration with two Advanced Playmaker that kurupted suggests, because I suppose that using APs could be the solution. Yesterday I review last match of Man City and is very evident the splitting between support (build-up) players and attacking players. In the first phase there is a slow build up phase between Ederson, CBs, Fernandinho and IWBs....this phase, that could be assimiled to "defensive" phase, because keeping possession is a very strong form of defensive game, is as long as is possible to find one of the 5 attacker (often KDB or Silva, but also Sane or Aguero) in the space. If you see the stats you will find that the two CBs are always the player which complete more passes than every other players on the pitch. This is the first difference from Barcelona, where often Xavi was the player with more passes completed. Than, after that phase, there is a sort of "switching" of the play. It seems that you have a switch to turn ON and OFF the attacking phase. The ball moves to one player in the half space and from this moment, (in the most cases), the "back five" stop to be active and all is assigned to the 5 attackers. In this case using the two APs could help to achieve this configuration where the two 8s become the main passing threat in the "attacking phase". I've used a very rigid approach in order to explain better the concept of a team splitted in two phases, in reality there are a lot of flexibility depending on the match situation, but I think that general concept is this. I think that Guardiola approach, in Fm terms, is definitely structured and not fluid or very fluid.
  18. I'm not sure about this. Or, apologize me, I agree with you in real terms, but you should remember that we are speak in FM terms. If you see the builp-up pattern that someone posts in this thread (page 3) you will see that Fernandinho is not included in the most completed "passing way". If you set him as DLP the ME will use him as main passing option whenever possible. In my opinion this could false the build up map.
  19. In my opinion Man City today is very different in the interpretation of play from Barcelona. The main triangles are definitely the ones composed of Wingback, 8's and wingers. But in Barcelona the position were more or less fixed, in Man City, as seen in the last match against Huddesfield, they can vary. In the last month the preferred configuration seems the one with Sane and Sterling in the wide positions, two 8's and wingback acting as IWB, in a true 6's role. But sometimes it happens that Sterling cuts inside in a free role and Walker moves up like a "true" wingback. The same flexibility is seen in the central position of the pitch. Tha starting configuration is a 4-3-3 with one DM and two 8's, but KDB acts with more freedom in collecting the ball from deep, while D. Silva (or the player which plays in the centre-left position) is more offensive, running from deep position in penalty area. But in some cases, as for example against Liverpool or teams with a playmaker in front of defense, the lineup was similar to a real 4-2-3-1 with one of the two 8's that sit very deep and the other moving in AMC position. Generally speaking it seems that the team was splitted in two parts, 5 people that attack and 5 people that support.
  20. Some observation from last match against Huddersfield. In the first picture we saw the typical attacking pattern of 2-3-5 but here Sterling is in the half-space, KDB on a support role and Walker is acting like a true winger on the right. And this is the 1-0 , again Sterling in a freerole, with Walker as IWB and Gundogan in a more offensive role than KDB.
  21. I'm not sure about this. When the ball is in that zones wingers should still be wide, waiting for the ball, because Fullbacks are narrow and in supporting role. When the ball goes to one winger (eg. Sanè) than the other one gets into penalty area to receive the cross.....
  22. Yes this is true but the aim of the thread is to replicate how Man City plays. Increasing mentality is absolutely a solution in making forward players more "risky" but this will cause a wrong build up phase in defenders and IWB.
  23. I agree with you. Fullbacks (Inverted wingbacks) should stay closer to DM. During attack phase the position should be a 2-3-5 or, at least, 3-2-5 if you use an HB. But Fullbacks should be definitely narrower than wingers.
  24. Interesting about the fullbacks role. But the build-up phase, in my opinion, is the only phase that we have the instruments to replicate. Is easy to have that passes pattern with very low risk.....the trouble begins in the final third.....
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