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cocoadavid

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  1. Hi Hanzi, I think the traits "gets forward whenever possible" and "gets into opposition area" can only be learned if a player is also natural in a position other than ST. For example AM RLC or M RLC. The "likes to beat offside trap" is definitely helpful in my experience. The "stays in the box" might be helpful, but I have no experience with that one.
  2. Hi @blackmoix, Thanks, please find the tactic below. Note that the indicated movements don't work all of the time, and your players should also have the right traits. NAP TM.fmf
  3. I absolutely agree with @Jack722. As I have explained in my thread it is possible to create a 4-4-2 defensive shape, but it greatly limits your offensive shape and attacking options. There are 2 main problems: 1. Central midfielders on defend duty A central midfielder on defend duty acts like a defensive midfielder, creating a 4-1-3-2 defensive shape, like in this example: Here the CM on defend duty leaves his midfield partner, leaving a big open space on front of him (white circle), and this gives an opportunity for Ruben Vezo to pass the ball into a good position. If he stayed higher up the pitch, in line with his midfield parner, he could mark or immidietaly press the opposition's central midfielder. 2. Strikers on attack duty Strikers on attack duty stay high up the pitch. In real life it is absolutely possible to ask a striker to track back into his defensive shape when out of possession, and then in possession ask him to make runs in behind the defenders and try to strech the defensive line. But in FM such role does not exist. Possible solutions As Jack has suggested one solution could be that out of possession the players should remain roughly in their position that is shown on the formation screen,. And then there still could be some striker roles that stay high up the pitch, like a poacher or advanced forward, creating a 4-4-1-1 defensive shape. But for example a pressing forward on attack duty would track back to create a 4-4-2 defensive shape. Another solution would be to alter how some roles in ST and CM strata behave defensively. An example that I have mentioned before is that for example a pressing forward on attack duty would track back. A third suggestion would be to create in possession and out of possession duties for roles. For example a central midfielder in possession could have a defensive duty, recyling possession, while out of possession he could be on support duty, staying in line with his midfield partner.
  4. Thanks, I really like how flexible you are with this approach, this is exactly how I intended my guide to help others. One day I may write a longer post about attacking, I have some ideas about attacking movements, there are many possibilites, but it would definitely take some time to write that post with examples etc. But I'm happy to share my latest attacking approach. In my recent save I used a TM - F9 combo in front, but the whole attacking movemens is built from the GK, first let me show you the tactic, and then I'm going to explain the thinking behind that. THE TACTIC FROM BACK TO FRONT In this tactic I intend to build up my play mainly on the right side of the pitch, the TM is the key player here (altough there is also a way to goal on the left side). The GK passes the ball to my (usually right sided) BPD. Then there are usually two ways way A : the BPD passes the ball long the the TM. Then the TM, with his back to goal, passes the ball back to my running MEZ or right WM, and then they can either dribble or pass a through ball to my F9 who already makes a run behind the defence because he likes to try to beat the offside trap. Or my TM, instead of passing the ball back to the MEZ or WM, can also pass or flick the ball on to the F9 directly. way B: the BPD passes the ball to the right WM, who then drifts inside passes to the TM, who then passes to the MEZ, who then passes to the F9 or IW or FB on the left. What I like is that these passing patterns can happen really quickly. The Attacking team mentality encourages the direct approach, encourages the F9 to make more forward runs and also encourages quicker passing. On the left side of the pitch the F9 and IW can exchange passes and wait for the run of the overlapping fullback, or switch the play to the other flank to the running WM on the right side
  5. There are some traits that I prefer and there are some that I absolutely avoid. I would not say that any of those is a must-have, your tactic could work without those. Altough there is one trait that I would consider as essential: I always try to have one striker who likes to beat the offside trap and/or gets into opposition area. Support duty strikers make less runs behind the defence, but these two traits definitely encourage them to make forward runs more often. Holder role in CM For the holder role in CM these are I the traits that I prefer (note that I usually have someone who is a good DLP): - always stays back - comes deep to get ball - likes to switch ball to other flank (if he is a good passer) For the holder role in CM these are the traits that I avoid: - get forward whenever possible - gets into opposition area - runs with ball often Strikers I usually like to have a striker partnership where one of them plays with his back to the goal while the other one is more mobile and makes runs in behind, so as I have already mentioned before, likes to beat the offside trap and/or gets into opposition area. But that is just my preference, other partnerships could also work well. There are some other traits that can be helpful, but those are absolutely up to your tactic and players. Just an example: if one of your central midfielders holds his position and always stays back, then the other one could arrive late in opponents area.
  6. I'm sorry to hear that! I did not face this problem at the clubs that I managed, at least not to an extent that it was outstanding. Just a couple of ideas that might help: - You can try to use an even more compact defence, eg. higher LoE + lower DL. - You can try to instruct your players to close down everybody, except the central defenders and GK. - You can try to move your central midfielders to the DM strata, that way there is a bigger gap between your strikers and midfielders, but in return there is less space in front of your defence, I think that way it might be harder to shoot through the lines of defence. - It could also be a series of bad luck, or down to personnel (like poor defensive or physical attributes). Or maybe you face formations/tactics all the time that take advantage of the shortcomings of this kind of 442.
  7. Behind the scenes the pressing forwards are hardcoded to always press, so there is a contradiction, and I think that is the main reason why they "half press" the opponent CBs despite telling them not to do it. Also, most of the instructions in FM are not black and white, they are more like tendencies. By that I mean that if for example someone instructs his fullback to cross less often, the fullback is still going to cross sometimes. So despite telling your player to not press the opponent at all, he still might press them, altough less urgently.
  8. Hi @HanziZoloman, I'm sorry for the late reply, I was pretty busy. I have finished my first season with Újpest, I am happy with the results, we finished 2nd in the leage, 6 points behind champions Ferencváros and 11 points above third placed Fehérvár FC. We were predicted to finish 6th (there are 12 teams in Hungarian Division I). We also reached the final of the Hungarian Cup, where we lost to Ferencváros. An interesting stat: our team had the highest number for average possession (56%) in the league. I'm glad to hear that you are doing well in 2. Bundesliga, it feels great that this guide was helpful! My BWM's average rating at the end of the season was 7.03 (32 matches, 1 goal, 4 assists). He was not outstanding, but did his job decently. In terms of attributes/ability that players is one of the best in the squad. In my experience in terms of ratings a BWM is not going to be the star player of the team in a system like this. My top perfomer was my left winger (Zoltán Stieber). Average rating 7.37 (32 matches, 7 goals, 14 assists).
  9. I'm sorry to hear that, I hope you'll have better luck next time with a different team!
  10. Hi @HanziZoloman and @Djeon36, I think that many different approaches to training can work. I can share my approach, but bare in mind that this is just my personal preference. I like to create a training schedule that is realistic in my opinion, I have read about real life training schedules, and I created mine based on what I read and what I liked the most. So, when I create a schedule, these are my principles. Let's assume that we start training on Monday and the matchday is Saturday. on Monday the players are not fully recovered after the last match, their condition is not 100%, therefore on Mondays I set up a training that is not physically demanding. That means I set up technical, tactical* and GK trainings. on Tuesday and Wednesday I set up the most intense trainings. This is the middle of the week, the players are already recovered and the next match is not too close, too. On these days I set up physical trainings and match practice coupled with technical and tactical trainings. (Match practice is good because it trains the attributes of the player's role.) on Thursday we start preparing for the next match, so on this day we have 1 or 2 match preparation training and 1 or 2 technical/tactical training. on Friday we only train set pieces and then have a match preview, before the match I don't want to tire the players. after the matchday: recovery and rest, maybe match review. *I also consider attacking and defensive trainings as technical/tactical trainings. Below an actual example:
  11. I only have one preference, for the left winger I prefer a left footed player, that way he can shoot/cross first time more easily when he receives a through ball, he doesn't have to take any time to move the ball to his preferred foot or cut inside. But a right footed player could also work there, a right footed player would work a little differently, it has its pros/cons. For all the other roles in the attacking and midfield areas I don't have a specific preference, it really is situational, every footedness has its pros/cons. There are situations when I wish my player was left footed, but then there are situation where I wish he was right footed. Sure, I can post screenshots of my attacking players at Újpest, you can see them below. My Target Man: My F9: My left WM: my right WM: This player is my second choice for both right WM and left WM, or sometimes even F9:
  12. Yes, a good CF can be crucial. At Valencia I had quality players for CF and TM positions, my top goalscorers were those 2 strikers, then my left winger who scored the 3rd most goals. In my Újpest save the amount of goals are roughly evenly distributed between the srikers and the wingplayers. The F9/TM combo score less goals themeselves but can create more chances for the attacking wingplayers. Note that my strikers here have really bad finishing attributes (9 and 11, also bad composure). The F9 drops deeper and my left WM-att can attack the space behind him, or if the F9 has the ball, he can run with the it and distrupt the opposition's defensive shape. The TM with his back to the goal can flick on/play simple short passes to the: DLP who then can play a pass to the overlapping fullback on the right, or play a killer ball to the other side of the pitch for my left winger who is attacking space behind my F9 and is usually in a good position to shoot or cross. right WM-att who then dribbles, shoots or passes. F9 who can do whatever he seems fit, dribble, pass, shoot or play a through ball. Besides, unsurprisingly the TM is often the target of crosses. Both at Valencia and at Újpest I had left wingers who were one of the best finishers in the squad, therefore the tactics that I created were designed in a way that the left winger is going finish many chances, so I was glad that my left wingers scored a relatively good amount of goals.
  13. Thanks! The roles of the CBs are really up to you, they could be switched. I had my right CB as a BPD because my right footed GK tended to pass the ball to the right sided centre back, and I wanted that defender to bring the ball out fo defence (or occasionally pass it long to the TM) and a BPD is more likely to do so than a regular CB. If my GK was left footed then probably I would have my left CB as a BPD. I encourage you to experiment with striker roles, it could work. At the moment I play with a F9 and TM. If you change one of your stirkers duty to attack, then the defensive shape becomes an asymmetric 4-4-1-1 rather than a 4-4-2, but that can also be good, it is especially good for counter attacking. Occasionally against teams that defend high up the pitch I might use one of my stirkers on attack duty, defensively it may be less solid, but that way I may have more counter attacking opportunity. I started a new save with Újpest, a Hungarian mid-table team, my players are far from being top quality, but the principles in my post still work. The players needed some time to get familiar with the tactic, but now we have equal points with Ferencváros, who are a far superior side in Hungary, they are like FC Bayern Munich in Germany or PSG in France, other teams have barely any chance. For this team I use a slightly different tactic that I used with Valencia because here I have some different types of and less potent players. If you are interested, here it is: PIs: left FBsu: sit narrower right BPD: stay wider right FBat: stay wider left WMat: stay wider, cross more right WMat: sit narrower strikers: mark specific position: DM I face 4231 the most frequently, I don't change anything at all, this 4-4-2 compact defensive shape works well against the 4-2-3-1, at least for me. The compactness of this 442 compensates for the lack of numbers in midfield. When defending, this is exactly the situation why it is important for both trikers to track back, usually my 2 strikers block the passing lanes to the opponent's central midfielders while my CMs block tha passing lanes to the opponent's CAM. The below simplified image shows that if the strikers defend deep and block passing lanes and the team holds its shape, then it is not exactly easy to pass the ball to the AM from the back. But a quality attacking midfielder with good off the ball movement can still create problems for us, of course.
  14. Thanks! Yes, PPMs are crucial, and sometimes I switched the mentality to Attacking, I think that could encourage the srikers to make more forward runs. In some games I still wished my strikers would make more runs behind. If I did not have strikers with good PPMs, then against sides that do not defend deep I think I would abandon my 2-support-duty-strikers-rule and play one of them on attack duty. I did not test this on lower league yet, so I can't really say what other role could work in place of the Complete Forward. Without further testing, in lower league maybe I would also abandon my 2-support-duty-striker-rule. I am also thinking about trying and testing a support-duty-forward + shadow striker combo, one in the STCL strata and the other in the AMCR strata. I am also planning to start a new save to try this system with other type of players.
  15. Just a quick update, if you are interested in who can be your top perfomers, goal scorers, etc. in a system like this, I've just finished my season, so here are some numbers: Average ratings According to the ratings, my best berfomers played these roles in my system: Winger-attack IW-support Target Man Complete Forward Fullback/WB-attack top 5: Marco Asensio: Winger-attack, sometimes IW-support Maxi Gomez: Target Man-support S. Esposito: Complete Forward-support, sometimes Target Man-support Odriozola: Fullback-attack/WB-attack Lee Kang-In: IW-support (and M. Rodák - backup GK) Goal scorers The top goals scorers played these roles in my system: Target Man - support Complete Forward - support Winger - attack Inverted Winger - support top 5: Maxi Gomez: TM-support S. Esposito: Complete Forward-support/Target Man-support Asensio: Winger-attack/IW-support Bryan Gil: Winger-attack Lee Kang-In: IW-support Assists The most assists were provided by players who played these roles: FB/WB-attack IW-support W-attack TM-support top 5: Odriozola: FB/WB-attack Lee Kang-In: IW-support Asensio: Winger-attack/IW-support José Gayá: FB-support (but some of his assists have come from corners) May Gómez: TM-support and Bryan Gil: W-attack League table Cheers, David
  16. Thanks! About the central midfielders... I can imagine many midfield combinations that could work, even a simple CMs + CMs with the right traits or PIs could work I guess. When creating the central midfield combination, I usually follow these principles: At least one of them should be instructed to hold position - to provide cover in case we lose the ball. At least one of them should be a relatively creative, good passer who can create chances or switch the ball to the other flank. At least one of them should be really hard-working. Of course these are just suggestions. With Valencia I have used the following combinations, in brackets their function, according to the afromentioned principles: DLP (hold position + creative) + BWM (hard-working) DLP (hold position + creative) + B2B (hard-working) BWM (hold position + hard working) + Roaming Playmaker ( creative + hard-working) BWM (hold position + hard working) + CM (creative) Just a few examples to give ideas: If you've got a creative, but slow player (eg. Dani Parejo or Xhaka), I would play him as a DLP who holds his position, and pair him with a more athletic player who could be a B2B, BWM, or even a simple CM. If you've got a central midfielder who likes to run with the ball (eg. Barella or Naby Keita), I would play him as the more adventurous midfielder (B2B, Roaming Playmaker, CM, Mezzala) and I would most likely instruct the other midfielder to hold his position. About the strikers... In my Valencia save, when playing with 2 support duty strikers, one of them was always a Target Man, so I can only just guess here, but I think that a DLFs could also work. In real life I really like the role of a F9, but in FM21 I just could not get the best out of a F9 so far, but it might worth a try. And of all the strikers roles with a support duty, the Complete Forward might be the most attacking minded I think.
  17. When playing against 2 strikers it makes sense to distribute to your full backs, on FM20 or FM19 I remember that I used to instruct my GK to distrubute to the FBs, or to a DLP, because sometimes there was enough space between the 2 srikers to pass to ball immidietaly to the DLP. However on FM21 with the players at my disposal I don't particulary have any issues against 2 strikers, so I rarely change distribution - but in La Liga I very rarely face any formation with 2 strikers.
  18. Hi @blackmoix I can share the tactic that I use with Valencia, you can find the link below. But I would like to remind you that Opposition Instructions are also important, and this tactic was created to suit my Valencia squad, for example I have forwards with suitable traits, I have multiple left footed wingers, that's why I use an IW on the right and a Winger on the left, etc. And I still make small changes from match to match. When starting a new save with a different team, my tactic would not be the same. My intention with the guide was to show you the basic principles for a successful,compact, lifelike 4-4-2 defensive formation, and I encourage you to try creating your own tactics to suit your players. 442 COMPACT v3.fmf
  19. This sounds like a great work around! I have mentioned in an earlier response that I wish to have a forward on attack duty who would defend like a forward on support duty, and your work around is a good idea for this. In possession two support duty strikers can have it's downsides when you don't have the right players for it, I am lucky to have complete forwards with the appropriate traits. Btw if anyone has struggles using two support duty strikers, a 4-4-1-1 defensive shape (for example one striker on attack duty and the other one on support/defend) is really great for counter attacking, especially if the opposition plays with a high DL or has slow defenders, I have used that approach before this compact 4-4-2 and it worked really well, too. Defensively it's not as compact as a 4-4-2, but offers the chance for a more direct approach.
  20. 1. Next to my DLP I wanted someone who is really aggressive when defending in the middle of the pitch and tries to win the ball back actively, generating counter attacking opportunities. My BWM also works well with the counter press TI, I've seen some highlights when we lost the ball high up the pitch on the left side, but my BWM pressed immediately, winning the ball back or forcing the opposition to an aimless long ball. But I don't always use a BWM(s), sometimes I use a B2B, I guess a CM(s) could also work. As I have mentioned in the post, I am quiet flexible with the roles, there are a lot of factors to consider, the players you have, the opposition, the roles that work well together, or creating mismatches against the opposition's centre backs ( for example using a tall TM against a small centre back, or using a quick forward vs a slow centre back). 2. They don't get in eatch others way, the DLP plays deeper, taking a more central position while the IWs has a higher position in the right hand channel in possession. I use an IW(s) most of the time, but sometimes I use a WM(s), or even a WP(s), but that could also affect other roles.
  21. Thanks, really good question! This is where the limitations of FM comes into play. In my dream FM, I would like a striker role that in possession would act like an attack duty striker and would constantly stretch the opponent's DL, but out of possession would track back like the support duty strikers. Another solution would be to have separate duties for in-possession and out-of-possession. I experimented a lot with support duty strikers and it turned out that out of all the striker roles with a support duty, the Complete Forward might be the most attacking one, especially if he has at least one of these player traits: likes to beat offside trap gets into opposition area gets forward whenever possible I am lucky to have a striker who likes to beat the offside trap, and he makes runs behind, altough not as often as an attack duty forward would do. Therefore in the Complete Forward role I usually use a player who would be a good Advanced Forward.
  22. 4-4-1-1 can be a really good defensive formation, it's great for counter attacks, in the past I have also used a pressing forward on defend duty, I really like that role. The formation on the tactical creator is not exactly the defensive shape, it is a starting point, your defensive shape depends a lot on the duties. Duties affect not only your in-possession-shape, but also your out-of-possession-shape. For example, if you create a flat 4-5-1 formation in the creator, and you set your central midfielder to defend duty, and you have two mezzalas next to him, the defensive shape is going to be a 4-1-4-1 and not 4-5-1. Another example with the defensive Pressing Forward: if you pair your Pressing Forward on defend duty with an Advanced Forward, your defensive shape is going to be 4-4-1-1, and not 4-4-2. In my experience if you use a CM with defend duty the defensive shape is often going to look like a 4-1-3-2 in the middle block. However, when the ball is already near your penalty area, it can look like a 4-4-2, but it's already too late for my taste. To show you how it looks, for one game I changed my right sided CM to CMd, and this was the result: This does not look like the compact 4-4-2 that I aim for.
  23. Thanks! Against teams that park the bus my team can totally dominate the game, tbh it works better against those teams than I expected. Of course sometimes it is harder to break them down or need a set piece to break the ice, but so far more often than not I was able to beat them. When playing against extra defensive teams, I change the roles to something like this: I change my left back to a Complete Wingback-support, it can add an extra body and extra width on the left side of the pitch in the opposition's half. Now that my wingback provides the width on the left side, I change my left winger in front of the CWS-su to Wide Midfielder-attack. I switch the TM-su and CF-su. I also tweak with TIs, usually I approach these games I like this: 0-20 minutes: Positive mentality, mid-high block, counter press ON, prevent short GK distribution. I try to score an early goal with urgency. 20-35 minutes: Balanced mentality, mid-low block, counter press OFF. I let them have the ball a bit more in a hope that I might have 1-2 counter attacking opportunity during this period. 35-60 minutes: same as 0-20, I try to put more pressure on them. 60-75 minutes: Balanced mentality, mid-low block, counter press. If we have the lead at this point, I leave the TIs as it is. Otherwise I switch back to the more urgent approach. Here are some results and stats vs parked buses (you can see in the opponents' formations that they really were focusing on defending):
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