Pangaea Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 My backroom staff aren't exactly mugs, but sometimes they do make me wonder. Practically during every bi-weekly backroom advice session, they keep yapping about training a central defender to knock ball past opponents. Maybe it's just me, but the last thing I want is my central defenders to start dribbling. They also have a quarky obsession with training my fullbacks to switch ball to the other flank. We're already losing piles of balls from terribly hit lateral passes, thank you, so I'd rather not get get yet more turnovers in even more dangerous territory. Sending 15-16 year olds out on loan is a bit weird too, they can't even play in Germany (must be 17). You got any others? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masonma71 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 My assistant manager tells me I should drop player x and player y due to poor form / better options in squad. I let him pick the team for the next game and guess what - he selects both player x and player y in starting line-up. This suggests to me the backroom advice is to be taken with a large pinch of salt, or its something thats not been developed as well as it should Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrazT Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 There is little doubt that the quality of backroom advice can be variable to say the least- I have been reduced to holding the meetings once a month and ignoring most of the suggestions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 I ignore most of it too. No point signing a host of 30+ year olds when I have young-ish players that are arguably better already, and certainly will be soon enough. They keep suggesting to change squad status too. I agreed to that once, and almost lost my life as the player stormed into my office and near enough strangled me to death. Okay, not quite that bad, but holy hell was he mad!! Once in a while you get decent staff recommendations, and sometimes tutoring too, but most of the advice is sadly of the "Dismiss" type. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 It happened again, in case you wanted to have a look Alex. Maag, that you can see in the list of unread advice, turned 17 less than two weeks ago, so I don't think he's eligible to play either. Not sure on that though, as I don't recall exactly how it worked with registration and such. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
withnail316 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 I'm normally told that I should change the status of my 35 goal-a-season striker to "back up" in my meetings. Not a big shock I tend to give them a miss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lil ole me Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Yeah, some of them are quick funny and annoying! I had mine tell me the other day we are very thin on the right midfield position....The ass man has been at the club for 6 yrs and i DO NOT use right midfielders, i would`ve thought he should know this by now haha. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovesi Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Hopefully SI addresses this area in FM15. 99% of backroom advice is sheer nonsense and yet another waste of time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityAndColour Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Mine relentlessly tell me to get my 'keepers to avoid using their weaker foot, which makes no sense to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
podunkboy Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 How about when you have your assman running first-team training, and he keeps coming to the meeting to say so-and-so player is unhappy with the amount of training he's being asked to do...so...why are you telling ME this, you're in charge of training. We have world-class training facilities, we have 4.5 stars in every training category, if I'm asking my assman to train the players, why are 60% of them unhappy with training? I'm paying him $12K/week to make them unhappy and then he comes to me with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fosse Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 I think "this terrible scout" would be an excellent addition to the scouting team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
managerdude_66 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 My backroom staff aren't exactly mugs, but sometimes they do make me wonder. Practically during every bi-weekly backroom advice session, they keep yapping about training a central defender to knock ball past opponents. Maybe it's just me, but the last thing I want is my central defenders to start dribbling.They also have a quarky obsession with training my fullbacks to switch ball to the other flank. We're already losing piles of balls from terribly hit lateral passes, thank you, so I'd rather not get get yet more turnovers in even more dangerous territory. I get this a lot too. What is even more missing off is after 3 separate attempts at teaching them the Switch ball PPM, they are still not able to learn it. The "Offer contract to X Player" advice is also utter rubbish. I mean, for heaven sake, the player in question signed a 5 year contact with a 200% raise only 6 months ago. I agree about the Suggest Coach advice though. 80% rubbish and 20% useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tieio Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 More examples of why this game is mind boggling and overcomplicated for new players This whole thread made me laugh, they are all so true it hurts. I only get the advice every 3 months now and ignore the vast majority of it, it is not helpful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 Can you fire me over a copy of your save game? Suppose I could do that. I've gotten more such messages now, but have changed the backroom advice to once a month to decrease the LOLs/facepalms. I've progressed a bit now, but set it to bi-weekly again and it will probably happen again soon enough. By sheer coincidence I noticed that a lot of the players are set as Unavailable for loan. I checked the Transfer screen (under Squad) because I wanted to make some hopeless ones available for loan, so they could at least get some football next season. But about half the team was set to Unavailable. Looks like the U17 players have it by default, so that is good, but many others do too. So I assume that when I Dismiss the "advice" to send kids on loan, they are set to Unavailable. That's not what I want, but if this is indeed how it works, then hopefully clicking on Next Unread will not do this, as opposed to Dismiss. Am uploading it as Heidenheim.fm (As you can see I'm struggling a bit, and the tactic name reflects that ) PS: If you want to check out the weird injury I wrote about somewhere, then that was in the surprisingly narrow loss to Bayern in the Cup, with the player Tundo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Doesn't this happen in every game? Should be very easy to reproduce. Just start a game I believe that ALL staff are utterly useless and have been so in every version of FM. None more so than the assistant manager! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityAndColour Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 On the general subject of backroom advice there is an intent to have a mix of excellent, good, okay, poor & abysmal advice, of course there is always room for improvement. Why do you need to take abysmal advice to the extreme though? I can't imagine any coach in football would suggest their centre half learn to place shots, or to drop their best performing players. Some of the stuff that pops up is just mystifying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Why do you need to take abysmal advice to the extreme though? I can't imagine any coach in football would suggest their centre half learn to place shots, or to drop their best performing players. Some of the stuff that pops up is just mystifying. I don't really see how you can say its mystifying tbh. Yes its simplistic in areas but its easy to see why most of the advice is being given. Just looking back through some replies I can pick out: Post #6 35 goal a season striker should be a backup - Its clear that the advice is based on CA/star ratings and that player seemingly outperforms his CA on the pitch due to good choice of role and a good balance of attributes. Post #11 Recommending staff members - Seemingly done on reputation while as users we seem to ignore it rightly or wrongly in favour of attributes. Post #7 Short of MRs but user doesn't use them - Its clear staff don't look at the tactics you are using they simply look at the positions and advise where you have a lack of players. PPMs - This is an area where it isn't always obvious but I guess based on attributes/position/ME the staff member feels the player would perform better with PPM X which may or may not be right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzP Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Mine relentlessly tell me to get my 'keepers to avoid using their weaker foot, which makes no sense to me. Not really, do you want your right footed keeper spooning pass backs out of play/to the opposition with his left foot? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityAndColour Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 You've basically just justified why it's mystifying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityAndColour Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Not really, do you want your right footed keeper spooning pass backs out of play/to the opposition with his left foot? No, but I'd like him to be able to use both feet when he receives a back pass under pressure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 You've basically just justified why it's mystifying. :confused: If it was mystifying you wouldn't know why the advice is being given whereas its fairly clear in a lot of cases why the advice is being given therefore it isn't mystifying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityAndColour Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 :confused:If it was mystifying you wouldn't know why the advice is being given whereas its fairly clear in a lot of cases why the advice is being given therefore it isn't mystifying. Well I don't really care why I'm being told to drop my 35-goal striker, I just care that I am being told to drop him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedy316 Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I have been told to drop Tom Ince (attacking left winger) and replace him with Martin Olsson (DL/WB) as he is a better option! WTF Martin Olsson is a damn defensive left back and you want him in an attacking role! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted July 6, 2014 Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 I'm just running your save to reproduce the loan advice & I have noticed that you have set specific members of staff to offer the different types of backroom advice, setting your HoyD to give advice on youth development makes sense but I'm not convinced that having a specific coach offer training advice is a wise move as you're limiting the suggestion to the opinion of one man rather than gather multiple opinions of staff who favour a variety of tactical & coaching styles.It's not going to be a magic pill but I would expect to see an increased variety in the advice offered if you avoid setting too many categories to be covered by a single member of staff. Edit: I've reproduced the loan advice & the underlying issue, once again thanks for the save. Interesting. So it may be better to not select anybody? I assumed this list worked like with captains and such, so that the 'best' coach was on top of the list, based on attributes, player knowledge, and whatever else may have an impact. I've set all those to None now. Good that the issue reproduced for you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted July 6, 2014 Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 I have been told to drop Tom Ince (attacking left winger) and replace him with Martin Olsson (DL/WB) as he is a better option! WTF Martin Olsson is a damn defensive left back and you want him in an attacking role! I think this kind of advice is based on form too, so if Ince had a rough patch, the coach probably felt somebody else could do better. In the case with my CB that the coach said should start knocking the ball past opponents, he is actually quite quick (15-16 pace/acc), and dribbling of 8 is probably decent for a CB. It's utterly idiotic in terms of where the player plays ofc, but I suspect the coach just looks at attributes and available PPMs, and this is the one that comes out best. His passing is a bit dodgy, but he could probably have been a decent Ball-playing Defender when I think about it -- but I have never used that role. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted July 6, 2014 Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 Hehe, that's a downside to having scouted players added to my short indefinitely. Just the way I've always done it. Then I remove them after a while, when I remember, which apparently is not often enough. It's useful information to a degree, though, unlike all those scouting updates which I really don't need, at least so damn often. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Hehe, that's a downside to having scouted players added to my short indefinitely. Just the way I've always done it. Then I remove them after a while, when I remember, which apparently is not often enough. It's useful information to a degree, though, unlike all those scouting updates which I really don't need, at least so damn often. I don't even add my players indefinitely and I have 960 players on my not-so-shortlist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 That's why I didn't last long in (LLM) clan games. Pace was too fast for me. I play at a very slow pace offline. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 A bit more on topic and I've had this with a few teams now, but I regularly get my coaches recommend that my CB learns the Shoot with Power PPM. Lack of Finishing is maybe the cause, but the position they play in should invalidate the advice, imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 It's exactly for that reason that I had one striker learn it. Both attributes are a little low and the one you mention is in single digits. He's doing well now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 It's not the longest shortlist I've come across, that prize still goes to Michal, he would hold up the clan game for an age while he was sorting through shortlisted players during pre-season.Edit: I stand corrected, HUNT3R now has a longest shortlist that I've come across. As a comparison I have a whopping 6 players on my list. I do miss the old player subscription system that allowed you to get news updates on a player without adding them to the shortlist & giving away your interest in them, that was a very useful feature on the LLM clan games. Pfft I often have 2000-3000 when at a bigger club and they all get scouted at least once a season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted July 6, 2014 Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 I don't even add my players indefinitely and I have 960 players on my not-so-shortlist. Wow! I "only" have 288 players, which is still a fair load tbh. Every once in a while I remove people that have gotten fewer stars, but usually I don't do anything with those that no longer have stars, so a lot of the guys on the shortlist are kind of inactive. Before I used to get reports on them just to see how they were rated and then remove or keep them, but since scouting costs are already through the roof for us (15% of overall costs, or something like that), I've not done that in this save. I also have some crap former players there that I just want to keep tabs on for when they retire, in case they turn into decent staff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Edit: I stand corrected, HUNT3R now has a longest shortlist that I've come across. It's going to grow a little very soon. It's end of the season! The main reason it's recommended for centre backs is due to their default attacking set-piece instructions, in some matches they might get as many scoring chances as a striker. Okay, I can sort of see the logic in that. Usually though, my CBs get the chance to head the ball and that's it. Very rarely does the ball get recycled and they end up with the ball at their feet. It's usually just another head high cross. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted July 6, 2014 Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 We almost never score on corners, but when we do, I must admit it's probably more often from ping-pong in the box before somebody whacks it in, sometimes a DC. But I've been worried that if DCs have some type of shooting PPM, they'll start whacking it at goal more often. They do sometimes have the ball outside the box, and I wouldn't want them to take shots. Perhaps there is nothing to that though. In any case, to me it seems like a waste to spend 6 months trying to teach a DC to shoot. I'd rather they focus more training time to improve attributes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sosasoser Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Your shortlists would drive me crazy. I might have two or three guys on there at any given time and that's only for a few months so I don't forget about them at the next transfer window. My favorite bad advice is: -Suggesting to drop a backup player who just happened to start the last game. I'll get this if the meeting is right after a game where I've inserted a backup into the lineup. The coach will advise that I drop him because the regular is better. Thanks, coach, that's some real keen insight you have there. -Suggesting that someone would make a good coaching addition when I'm maxed out on the number of coaches I'm allowed to have. I always see myself in the meetings saying, "Well, George, which one of your colleagues here do you think I should fire?" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aderow Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I currently have a shortlist with 1500 players on it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesjunior Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I just got one asking me to put Steven Gerrard on leadership training as it would be good for him. Considering I am in season 2014/15 and Gerrard is in the last year of his contract having been team and club captain for nearly 15yrs I wonder if the Sega technician responsible is a Man Utd fan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 "Coach reports on player progress" "Coach hasn't seen enough of player to appraise his training performance." Geez. Thanks ever so much for contacting me to discuss this very important matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masonma71 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Having read all the replies, in summary, you have to say, the backroom advice feature doesn't really work properly. it also makes me wonder how accurate the assistant managers in-match advice is, is this something else thats not that great. Are SI planning to improve the backroom advice for FM2015 or is the answer just going to be "well, there is no pressure to accept the recommendations of your staff" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share Posted July 12, 2014 Alex, I just wanted to point out that this happens for 14 year olds as well, as I just got the youth batch in, and when I click on Development (Advice), my assman recommends to list them for loan. That's idiocy even if he could play competitive football in Germany, but it seems like the backroom staff want any Joe Numpty to go out on loan instantly. I really, really wish that when you dismiss advice, it didn't get repeated every bloody time you have a meeting with the backroom staff. You'd think that a coach would understand at some point, when you have dismissed their lunacy of teaching a fullback to switch the ball to the other flank for the 20th time Or DCs to start dribble. Or anything else for that matter. If we dismiss it, it's because we don't think it's a good idea, so stop bringin it up every bloody time. I'm starting to think my coaches should be named Polly and located in a cage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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