scott MUFC Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 which they havn't yet Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artest Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 They are so going to score a last minute winner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott MUFC Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 still be on top if they did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Haven't watched the game yet but we have simply got to take Rooney off penalties. He's missed way too many of them and quite frankly there is no excuse for putting a penalty wide Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Button Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Haven't watched the game yet but we have simply got to take Rooney off penalties. He's missed way too many of them and quite frankly there is no excuse for putting a penalty wide I was suprised he took it over van Persie to be honest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren24 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Had that been against any other team I think Robin would have taken it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 No he wouldn't, Rooney is our main penalty taker. Rooney's penalties since he got blasted for missing one a while ago have been excellent, his record isn't that much worse than Van Persie's anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_ Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Didn't they show on the graphic he's scored his last 4 or 5? Unless they didn't show the misses for some reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 No he wouldn't, Rooney is our main penalty taker.Rooney's penalties since he got blasted for missing one a while ago have been excellent, his record isn't that much worse than Van Persie's anyway. One? At some point he had missed something like 3 in 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 He scored his last 4 in the league according to Sky Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Which would come after the period of him missing a lot Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 Which would come after the period of him missing a lot he's scored 13 out of 20 with most of those misses coming earlier in his career, he's as good a penalty taker as we have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Imo 13 of 20 is abysmal. Pretty sure I saw somewhere that Lampard went 23 in a row without missing. How many did Ruud take/miss? At least I'm not budging, 65% is pathetic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Pathetic is pushing it, but it's not great - far from it. Have more trust in RVP atm, as he is such a lethal finisher - Panenka muckup aside. It's tougher than it looks ofc, but I never feel comfortable when Rooney steps up, and that's not a great position to be in. When Ruud or Cantona stepped up, the goal had already been counted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Very difficult to find penalty statistics for specific players, but the following Premiership team stats since 2009 show: Man Utd: 19 from 27 (70%) Chelsea: 24 from 28 (86%) Man City: 20 from 23 (87%) Liverpool: 11 from 17 (65%) Arsenal: 9 from 14 (64%) The whole premiership: 255 from 333 (77%) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 So Rooney is 12% below the league average? Yup, that's pathetic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 obviously not that directly comparable but close enough for me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 That's pretty shoddy tbh, and so far this season we must be at best looking at 50%. Think we have scored more on corners than penalties so far. Go figure! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Could be worse. Think Defoe has less than a 40% rate for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Spurs have 11 from 13 (85%) couldn't have been taking them recently... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Modric, Adebayor and Van Der Vaart were sharing them last season. Obviously two of them won't be anymore, and Ade isn't starting either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Bestie7 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Rooney's problem is the way he takes them. He swivels his hips when he tries to strike it in the bottom left side (almost like Beckham/Ronaldo) but it can really screw up the accuracy. If he takes them to the right/Gks left then he can use his power much more effectively. It's basically really poor technique. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Bestie7 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Calling it really poor technique is absolute nonsense. Being able to hit the ball to the keepers right like he does with his body so open is tremendously difficult technique that few can pull off anywhere near as good as he does.What it is, is a very risky technique but also very effective if he gets it right. For me he should just adopt the Alan Shearer approach of a high blast. Easy to do, almost impossible to save. The technique itself has a high risk factor when he is going for the inside shot. So fair enough, it might not actually be poor but the end result is too unpredictable. This isn't a free kick where the team can afford a 50-75% success rate. A penalty is a rare chance that needs the best chance of success as possible and his in-swing shot doesn't give that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 For me there are two ways to go about it. Ruud it up and just smash the ball into the side netting. If you are a top level striker that should really not be even the tiniest bit of problem 99% of the time. If that's not good enough just place it high to the side. More likely to be saved but top level footballers should not have trouble locating the top corner. Always gets me angry when I see pathetic penalties passed at the goal, a couple of yards to the side and a few inches of the ground. Should fine players for those, inexcusable crap Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahno6 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I would rather have RVP taking them tbh. When we first signed him there was a video of all his Arsenal goals including lots of pens and he basically leathers all his pens (bar Southampton for us), even when he keeper goes the right way it's very difficult to keep out as Pepe Reina proved. 65% is poor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 It's also 1% better than Arsenals record. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Thought Rooney hit a nice one against Italy in the euro shootout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 His record recently has been great, he's up closer to 80% than 70%. People just overreact. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Carrick didn't play well and I think that was a big influence on us not being particularly good today. Cleverley too. Made me feel very frustrated with Anderson's lack of fitness because he was excellent in midweek, taken off early, and really should have started today. Thought Cleverley was much improved from last week personally, fizzing about the place and keeping moves ticking along nicely. His partnership with Carrick was much closer to how I'd envisaged it working, though Carrick was a little off at times. Think part of the Ando thing is that he hasn't played much this season. Funny game today, pretty much 7s all round as everyone was either quiet and unspectacular or bright for the most part but with spells of sloppiness, aided and abetted by Arsenal being so insipid. In addition to Cleverley I thought RvP and Valencia had good games, and Anderson was very good again when he came on; but Evra was MotM for me. Didn't put a foot wrong all game at both ends of the pitch, scored(!), and won a header against Mertesacker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahno6 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Since that Cluj game, Evra is definitely returning to the sort of form we saw 3/4 years ago. Seems to be more solid defensively and positionally whilst still giving us a great option going forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Meant to say that I thought Ando was a tad unlucky not to come away with a goal - both van Persie and him seemed level. Thought the penner was legit too - was Santi suggesting that it shouldn't have been because he was only covering his face? Has he any grasp of the laws of the game? Always fun to think what must be going through Aaron Ramsey's head on days like today too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Indeed. But he's getting more games for them than he would for us. Probably the same for Pogba too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leppard Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 You guys are top :O Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott MUFC Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 and long may it stay that way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 For me there are two ways to go about it. Ruud it up and just smash the ball into the side netting. If you are a top level striker that should really not be even the tiniest bit of problem 99% of the time. If that's not good enough just place it high to the side. More likely to be saved but top level footballers should not have trouble locating the top corner.Always gets me angry when I see pathetic penalties passed at the goal, a couple of yards to the side and a few inches of the ground. Should fine players for those, inexcusable crap For me, reasonably hard and low, just inside the post. If you pick your spot and hit it there it's very difficult for a keeper to get to it even if they guess the right way. It shouldn't be much of a problem hitting the ball just inside the post. If a player of mine even hit a pen down the middle I'd fine the bugger. I hate pens down the middle. The other option is to hit the pen so hard that it's basically past the keeper before he reacts. Beckham used to do that (before he started missing) but it's not reliable enough for me. What is wrong with picking a corner? No 'out-foxing the keeper' just bloody pick a corner! Pens aren't a time to be 'clever' it's a great chance to score. Missing the target completely is unforgiveable Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aderow Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 His record recently has been great, he's up closer to 80% than 70%. People just overreact. People tend to do that. I can remember a couple relatively recent misses so I can see why. You guys are top :O Yes we are Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 If a player of mine even hit a pen down the middle I'd fine the bugger. I hate pens down the middle. Yet they are pretty effective, plenty of examples for that. Plus it gives the keeper something else to think about rather than just going left or right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 The problem is the harder you hit it the less control you have. More often than not you pens 'down the middle' actually veer a little left or right, can cannon off the keeper that has just guessed either way. You don't need to think about what the keeper it thinking or out fox him, just put it in the corner, even he guesses if you hit it decent, inside of foot then he won't be saving it and you keep control of the shot Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlander Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 The problem is the harder you hit it the less control you have. More often than not you pens 'down the middle' actually veer a little left or right, can cannon off the keeper that has just guessed either way. You don't need to think about what the keeper it thinking or out fox him, just put it in the corner, even he guesses if you hit it decent, inside of foot then he won't be saving it and you keep control of the shot You logic is flawed here. You rightly say that the harder you hit it the less control you have. But if you don't hit it with a good power into the corner that penalty can be saved. More so, if the keeper knows that the player never hit them through the middle, but only to the corners. You know, it's partly the reason why keepers do save those penalties, which the players tries to hit through middle. The keepers intentionally don't jump all the way to the corner. You do need variety. Once per 10 penalties hit it through middle, a few times to top of the net and others to hard and low to the corners. That's the perfect way to do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 If you hit it reasonably hard right by the post, low, the keeper just can't get there in time. If Rooney's yesterday had been just inside the post instead of outside it, no keeper could have saved that - unless he went wickedly early. That is arguably the best place to put them, and still remain pretty safe. If you start hitting them high the keeper won't save it, but you also run a risk of a slight miskick putting it over the bar. Ask Roberto Baggio and many others. In a pressured situation, taking a penalty isn't as easy as slotting in ten in a row in training. You can run the same risk with a power-shot, a slight miskick and it goes wide or over, but almost no matter where you put one of those screamers the keeper will find it very hard to save. If he's lucky and it hits in in the midriff or something he can get it, but most times getting a hand on those won't be enough as it's so hard. Think variation to both bottom corners is the best way. As long as you find those corners it has the goalie guessing which side to go, and they're almost impossible to get to if you shoot them instead of 'pass' them. Right now I'd feel more safe with RVP taking them though. Rooney have missed too many for my comfort, and RVP seems to always score on them - with the obvious exception for us with the Panenka attempt. He usually glues them to the inside post, and there is usually no saving those. That's where Cantona put them too, and he missed once for us in all those years (might have been zero, but think he missed one). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I think we can all tell the difference between 'good power into a corner' and blasting through the ball in terms of control, side footing it into a corner for starters. You don't need variety, just put it in the corner. You're in a the prominent position as a kicker, it's a penalty, they are being penalised, it's supposed to be a goal, it's not some equal meeting of minds. It shoud be difficult to save, that's the idea. When you blast the hell out of it or fanny about giving the keeper the eyes is when you make it complicated. If you want variety put it just inside the post of the other side of the goal. High and in the corner is also great but once you started hitting it higher you're also losing a bit of control. Pressure comes into it, nerves so you're better off side footing it. Tbh even side footing it you shouldn't be missing if aiming a little higher but you see it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlander Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 It's not that easy to hit "reasonably hard right by the post, low", it's really not. You've got about the same chances to hit to the top corner with 1,5m radius. It will be as hard to save. And yes, if the only variety the player has is to hit it low by one of the posts, the keepers will be able to get to one of those corners by moving early. Of course, it's just amateur football, but there was one guy who did hit his penalties extremely accurate and with enough power. But the problem was, that he always hit it to the keepers left. And I was able to save them by simply moving to that corner during his last steps in run-up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 That's why you need to vary it by left and right, or the keeper can almost just stand there from the get go Once you start putting them high though, you run the risk of blowing them over. Plus, you need to put them proper high. If they end up a meter off the ground for example, it's keeper food, the perfect height. So overall I think the most secure is to put them just inside the post with reasonable strength. Doesn't mean it's easy to pull off every single time, especially on the level we are talking about here, but it's probably easier than, say, putting them to either top corner-ish every time. So easy to get slightly too much air under it. Even more so in a high-pressure situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 You're better off just watching the keeper as you run in and making your mind up that way, thats all Cantona/Le Tisser/Balotelli ever does. Watch the keeper, if he doesn't move early stick it in the corner because it's too late and if he does roll it to the other side. Saying that putting it anything above waist height to either side is a guaranteed goal anyway, I get the feeling lots of players just don't practice penalties much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 Where we'd be without RvP's goals and assists (obviously if he wasn't here someone else would have stepped up to fill some of the void) but it does show how pivotal he's been since he came. Rarely does such a big named player slide in so effortlessly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Just seen Wenger's comments suggesting that Wilshere planting his studs onto Evra's ankle was a dive by Evra Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 I've just seen it for the first time as MUTV are showing the game now. If that's a dive then we might as well just bring back Vinnie Jones and his style of 'tackling'. Wilshere should have been heading for a three match ban ffs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 I'm worried that when I glanced at the screen just now and saw Anderson running with the ball I thought it was Adriano :o How the **** can he be so completely out of shape? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_ Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 He's just big boned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 I don't think anyone's got that amount of bones in their stomach tbf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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