Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

[Cloud9]

1 hour ago, HanziZoloman said:

Oh really? You think it’s better to play on the front foot with my grandparents in midfield? But my defenders are snails either … 
the suggestion with the DM(S) is good I feel that we are more stable when I play the less brave (4) but quicker man there, than the slow one with fantastic mentals. 
work rate and stamina is good enough with all six candidates. 
 

Hmm I can take a closer look if you post the player's/tactical approach in a separate thread. 

In general I would only look to "carry" one player in a midfield 3. Other good options for a fairly immobile player are as a DLP(s) paired with an enforcer profile (Jorginho is a good example of how this can work) or to stick them in as a 10 ahead of a spirited pivot.

Immobile player's like this can also make excellent squad player's, as they can serve as a way to break down deep sitting opposition or to help slow down/control the game a bit more.

[HanziZoloman]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Cloud9:

Hmm I can take a closer look if you post the player's/tactical approach in a separate thread. 

Thank you, I‘ll post it on the next few days.

[prodjgalaxyp]

Hi there!

Recently, I read a lot of tactics discussion and I saw some advice saying try not to mirror the tactics (eg. IF and WB on both flanks) because its easy to defend and there is no variety in attacking play.

 

So I wanna know, What are the advantage and disadvantage of mirror tactics. (except from those two mention above)

 

Many Thanks!

[Nick_CB]

Hey guys

How are you dealing with the aerial duels? I sometimes feel that hiring short players is a waste of time on FM 24

 

[El Payaso]

Are there any good and comprehensive guides for the training in general? 

[Bohsjohn]

Does a lone striker need high teamwork and work rate no mater what role they're playing in?

[Johnny Ace]

1 hour ago, Bohsjohn said:

Does a lone striker need high teamwork and work rate no mater what role they're playing in?

Work rate is pretty important but Team Work less so if you're wanting him as a goal getter 

[HanziZoloman]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Litmanen 10:

Are there any good and comprehensive guides for the training in general? 

Yes you‘ll find them via @Rashidi on YouTube bustthenet

and evidencebasedfm also youtube

[El Payaso]

5 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

Yes you‘ll find them via @Rashidi on YouTube bustthenet

and evidencebasedfm also youtube

Thank you. Already found this one:

 

[Batigoal__]

Hello everyone,

Considering the options and capabilities of the current game engine, is it possible to position an axial midfield at the sideline as shown in the screenshot ?

Carrilero's role seems to be a choice to offer him which seems limited.  The activation in the TIs of "Focus Play Down" does not encourage the player to move further out wide.
In this example of a move down the right flank, the central midfielder moves off-centre to the touchline, the winger moves inside and the right-back triggers the sequence when the ball is given, making an appeal as high up the pitch as possible.

Thank you for your suggestions/ideas

Edited February 18 by Batigoal__

[HanziZoloman]

Hey guys,

what kind of PPMs do you like with an IF(S) and Flair 18?

[fc.cadoni]

24 minutes ago, HanziZoloman said:

Hey guys,

what kind of PPMs do you like with an IF(S) and Flair 18?

- Likes to Round Keeper
- Tries Killer Balls Often
- Tries Tricks
- Gets Into Opposition Area
- Likes to Beat Offside Trap

[HanziZoloman]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb fc.cadoni:

- Likes to Round Keeper
- Tries Killer Balls Often
- Tries Tricks
- Gets Into Opposition Area
- Likes to Beat Offside Trap

and Wingers and Pressing Forwards? 

[fc.cadoni]

2 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

and Wingers and Pressing Forwards? 

PF (Attack Duty):

- Gets Forward Whenever Possible
- Gets Into Opp. Area
- Moves Into Channels
- Plays One-Twos

Winger:

- Hugs Line
- Runs With Ball Down Left (or Right)
- Runs With Ball Often
- Knocks Ball Past Opp.

[HanziZoloman]

vor einer Stunde schrieb fc.cadoni:

PF (Attack Duty):

- Gets Forward Whenever Possible
- Gets Into Opp. Area
- Moves Into Channels
- Plays One-Twos

Winger:

- Hugs Line
- Runs With Ball Down Left (or Right)
- Runs With Ball Often
- Knocks Ball Past Opp.

Wonderful 

thank you 

Edited February 18 by HanziZoloman

[Cloud9]

14 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

Hey guys,

what kind of PPMs do you like with an IF(S) and Flair 18?

I would only add traits that directly address a specific weakness or clear strength, more than that can muddy the tactical structure and pull player's out of shape. It also takes away from key developmental periods on youngsters.

For example: if you have a quick wide attacker with no end product, "rounds the goal keeper" can be a great addition. It deals with his lack of finishing ability and lets you focus his developmental time towards his strengths instead (compared to improving a weakness which will always be a bit poor). Allan Saint-Maximin was the perfect example of the type of player who, by adding a trait like this, you could turn into a real weapon. 

Aside from a strength or weakness, the other time I add a trait is when I have a clear tactical system, and the trait furthers that. For example in a counter attacking system asking my spearheading forward to break the offside trap more often can help me apply additional pressure onto the opposition. 

As a good rule of thumb, if you've got more than 2-3 traits on your player's you're probably overdoing it and causing additional problems to your side.

Edited February 19 by Cloud9

[Batigoal__]

Le 18/02/2024 à 12:45, Batigoal__ a dit :

Hello everyone,

Considering the options and capabilities of the current game engine, is it possible to position an axial midfield at the sideline as shown in the screenshot ?

Carrilero's role seems to be a choice to offer him which seems limited.  The activation in the TIs of "Focus Play Down" does not encourage the player to move further out wide.
In this example of a move down the right flank, the central midfielder moves off-centre to the touchline, the winger moves inside and the right-back triggers the sequence when the ball is given, making an appeal as high up the pitch as possible.

Thank you for your suggestions/ideas

Gattuso has been sacked. Gasset has been called in until the end of the season.
For their first match in the Europa League, the team returned to a 3-5-2 formation.
In this formation, too, the central midfielders played off-centre, sometimes very high up the pitch.
This movement is more noticeable on the right, where the right-back plays an attacking role.

 

Edited February 25 by Batigoal__

[Rashidi]

On 12/02/2024 at 22:26, Skywalk3r83 said:

Quick question: what kind of team instructions do you guys use when playing a possesion system?
I would say something like this:
Shorter passing, normal tempo, work ball in box, low crosses
counterpress, distribute to CD/FB
High press, (very) high d-line 

Would love to hear some imput on it.

Thanks!

The most important thing about having a high possession tactic will ultimately depend on how good your own players are at keeping the ball under pressure. 
 

What is high possession? >75% possession or between 55-65%? You ca achieve it by being smart about your choice of roles, duties I play with a poacher and 2 wingers on attack duty in my high possession 433 system. 

High possession is also about Rest Defence which is about your team looks when they are attacking. Does their shape allow them to regain possession easily?

My advice keep things simple at the start. Use as few TIs as possible. My system generates a lot of possession even on high tempo, because I avoid two key things:

I do not use AFs and do not employ Counter.

[llado01]

hi to all

 

two simply and direct quests

 

- how to beat a 10 men team (it's f*ckin crazy , always loose) ?

- how to beat a ultra-defensive team (always smash me and hit me at counter) ?

 

somebody can help me ?

 

thanks

[Bahnzo]

I have to admit, I don't know what happens if I don't spend all my transfer funds. 

Will the board roll them over? Will they take it? They are in the process of building a new stadium, would they use it to pay that off? 

I know it's a great problem to have.....

[Skywalk3r83]

On 20/02/2024 at 09:37, Rashidi said:

The most important thing about having a high possession tactic will ultimately depend on how good your own players are at keeping the ball under pressure. 
 

What is high possession? >75% possession or between 55-65%? You ca achieve it by being smart about your choice of roles, duties I play with a poacher and 2 wingers on attack duty in my high possession 433 system. 

High possession is also about Rest Defence which is about your team looks when they are attacking. Does their shape allow them to regain possession easily?

My advice keep things simple at the start. Use as few TIs as possible. My system generates a lot of possession even on high tempo, because I avoid two key things:

I do not use AFs and do not employ Counter.

Thanks! Will have a look into it. 

[fc.cadoni]

9 hours ago, Bahnzo said:

I have to admit, I don't know what happens if I don't spend all my transfer funds. 

Will the board roll them over? Will they take it? They are in the process of building a new stadium, would they use it to pay that off? 

I know it's a great problem to have.....

There is no exact answer to this. I had a board doing A, then I had a board doing B and so on. So, it depends by board from board.

[fmFutbolManager]

8 minutes ago, fc.cadoni said:

There is no exact answer to this. I had a board doing A, then I had a board doing B and so on. So, it depends by board from board.

Yeah, you definitely don't retain the whole amount, you end the year with £x in the bank, and new budgets are calculated for the following year. If your actual accounts are positive though you should have a bigger budget than if you didn't spend anything, but remember if you have money in the bank you have tax to pay so I always try to get the board to put that money into facilities, signing some youth players etc. unless I really need a rebuild so will save it up. 

[Bahnzo]

8 hours ago, fmFutbolManager said:

have tax to pay

Ahhh! Good point. Looks like some wonderkids about to become the newest members of Dresden....Thanks!

[Duracellio]

Quickfire question #1 (MENTORING)

Does anyone knows if this is a bug, If it has been fixed or if there's even something related to this? I've searched for it but didn't found anything about it.

Young players don't appear when you try to choose them to be mentored but If you ask your assistant manager to handle the mentoring group, he might, in some cases, pull those kids, even if they are in U19's, U23's, reserves, etc has long has they are added to the trainning units with senior squad.

This make me think that it is either a bug that wasn't supposed to happen or a feature that should work and apparently isn't and I think it is the second case because it makes total sense for those young players to be mentored by older players if they are trainning with them every day right? Either way should be fixed as it is very annoying, but I am not sure if SI is aware of this issue...

Edited March 4 by Duracellio

[HanziZoloman]

I struggle to bring my AP into play, any experience to share here? Thanks 

[Duracellio]

Quickfire question #2 (TACTICS)

I see some people having some degree of success using two instructions that I find confusing how they work together.

How does the mid block and prevent short goalkeeper distribution work together?

Edited March 4 by Duracellio

[Captain_T]

Does it make sense to use the Team Instructions "Pass into space" and "work ball into the box" at the same time?

Or do they "disturb" each other?

[crusadertsar]

2 hours ago, Duracellio said:

Quickfire question #2 (TACTICS)

I see some people having some degree of success using two instructions that I find confusing how they work together.

How does the mid block and prevent short goalkeeper distribution work together?

It can work but its not ideal. You will get best results from "prevent short" instruction when using gegenpress type tactics and formation. For example a top heavy formation like 4-2-3-1 or 4-2-4 coupled with high defensive line and high line of engagement. Not to say that it wont block with "midblock", just wont get the best results from it. 

[Cloud9]

1 hour ago, crusadertsar said:

It can work but its not ideal. You will get best results from "prevent short" instruction when using gegenpress type tactics and formation. For example a top heavy formation like 4-2-3-1 or 4-2-4 coupled with high defensive line and high line of engagement. Not to say that it wont block with "midblock", just wont get the best results from it. 

Curious on this as I struggle to find a place for this TI in my tactics.

Don't you want to invite the opposition to attempt to play out from the back as a gegenpress? I often use direct GK distribution to play over the press against a gegenpress if I'm the one running the midblock and my goalkeeper is capable of doing so. 

[Duracellio]

1 hora atrás, crusadertsar disse:

It can work but its not ideal. You will get best results from "prevent short" instruction when using gegenpress type tactics and formation. For example a top heavy formation like 4-2-3-1 or 4-2-4 coupled with high defensive line and high line of engagement. Not to say that it wont block with "midblock", just wont get the best results from it. 

Exactly my thoughts, hence why I find it so odd that people are actually having success with what I would have thought as two "conflicting instructions".

Would like to read from anyone who thinks this two instructions could work together have some diferent point of view on that matter that could explain why?

Edited March 4 by Duracellio

[crusadertsar]

36 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

Curious on this as I struggle to find a place for this TI in my tactics.

Don't you want to invite the opposition to attempt to play out from the back as a gegenpress? I often use direct GK distribution to play over the press against a gegenpress if I'm the one running the midblock and my goalkeeper is capable of doing so. 

I haven't played geggenpress yet in FM24 but in FM23 I used this combo of "high line of engagement" and "prevent distribution" to much success to push opposition keeper and defenders into errors where they would lose composure and just boot the ball long upfield where my central midfielders and CBs had a field day intercepting such panicked passes. This is the reason why you can never go wrong with having good jumpers in the midfield. I stopped doing this in FM23 because it just felt like an exploit after awhile. Not sure if it's still as effective in FM24.

Edited March 4 by crusadertsar

[Fritz13]

Is it possible for a player to have both the “cute inside from both wings” PPI as well as the “hugs touchline” one?
 

Wasnt sure if adding one might remove the other, or it adds some nice unpredictability for the player.

 

Edit - just seen you can have both 

Edited March 6 by Fritz13

[Heavyman39]

Hi, was Firmino false9 or deep lying forward (support) in Liverpool 2018-20?

[bosque]

How can I assess if a young player is ready for first team football? Should I check if his key attributes are at least at an average level? (using the averages from the comparison page).

[Cloud9]

46 minutes ago, bosque said:

How can I assess if a young player is ready for first team football? Should I check if his key attributes are at least at an average level? (using the averages from the comparison page).

Depends on your tactical style (defensive styles are less forgiving w/youngsters), but the main indicator is that they are at least 18 years old (where they can start to benefit fully from first team game time).

I would say a common pitfall many FM managers fall into is an over reliance on young players within their squads. Building a backbone of senior pros can allow you to bring in young players as rotation options/off the bench, where you can slowly blood them into the team. You'll also have mentors who can mould them into professional individuals. I'd recommend looking more at what a youngster is now than the lure of potential. Yes they will develop, but the core of the player is there by 18 (if they don't fit your tactical approach now, they likely won't in the future either). 

This prevents a drop in first team form and helps avoids hampering the development of the u23 players in your squad. 

Edited March 8 by Cloud9

[bosque]

1 hour ago, Cloud9 said:

Depends on your tactical style (defensive styles are less forgiving w/youngsters), but the main indicator is that they are at least 18 years old (where they can start to benefit fully from first team game time).

I would say a common pitfall many FM managers fall into is an over reliance on young players within their squads. Building a backbone of senior pros can allow you to bring in young players as rotation options/off the bench, where you can slowly blood them into the team. You'll also have mentors who can mould them into professional individuals. I'd recommend looking more at what a youngster is now than the lure of potential. Yes they will develop, but the core of the player is there by 18 (if they don't fit your tactical approach now, they likely won't in the future either). 

This prevents a drop in first team form and helps avoids hampering the development of the u23 players in your squad. 

Thanks for the answer but I'm still unsure about a few things.

• You can know a wonderkid is a wonderkd but what about the future "squadplayerkid" or "regularstarterwithalotofeffortkid". Which is a good attribute level to consider a player is ready for first time football? One or two points behind of what you will look for a senior regular starter?
• Lets say we have two 18 years old. A looks a bit better than B so I loan out B and I keep A as a rotation option/off the bench. Will B progress more thanks to more Regular Starter football than A, who was better but will have fewer game time?

Edited March 8 by bosque

[Cloud9]

3 hours ago, bosque said:

You can know a wonderkid is a wonderkd but what about the future "squadplayerkid" or "regularstarterwithalotofeffortkid". Which is a good attribute level to consider a player is ready for first time football? One or two points behind of what you will look for a senior regular starter?

Lets say we have two 18 years old. A looks a bit better than B so I loan out B and I keep A as a rotation option/off the bench. Will B progress more thanks to more Regular Starter football than A, who was better but will have fewer game time?

I think a lot of it just comes down to experience, but here are a few examples from my own save at the moment:

I've been doing recruitment only via players my scouts can bring to me currently (I also allow myself free transfers and transfer listed player's from non english sides to help prevent an unrealistically young squad). The first thing I try to do is find my strongest starting 11 and a tactical shape that fits the players. I'm a defensive manager, preferring to play on the counter attack so that's factored in as well.

Outside of the starting 11, I then look to bring in u23 players who I can develop to progress the team or squad player's who can do a specific job or play in multiple positions. I often run a smaller squad, I think my first team has 21 players in it, which helps me micro manage and rotate them properly. 

On versatile / role playing squad players:

Sensi, a free transfer, is an example of a squad player who I can bring off the bench to change things up. He lacks the physicality and defensive attributes to be a starter in the squad, but if we're chasing a game in which the opponent sits back, he has the perfect skill set to help unlock them as an AP.

Spoiler

As for developing youngsters, here's two different examples:

Here's a Brazilian boy I brought in for 2.4m who has the core of what I'm looking for in a wide player and is finding his game time sparingly as a sub / occasional starter to either wide attacker.

Spoiler

He's got attributes I won't be able to train onto other player's that suit my style of play. These guarantee that no matter how far he develops, he'll have a place in the squad (either as a starter or a rotation option off either wing). 

• On a winger in a counter attack system I'm looking for decent pace as well as someone who contributes out of possession. That could be through high teamwork, tackling  etc. but in Xavier's case, it's through aggression and anticipation. 
• In terms of what he can do for the team now, even though the game gives him 2 stars, he can already be an effective 1v1 player in wide areas. He lacks the ability to come inside and play (mentals / passing / end product) but he has the combination of acc/pace, dribbling, and agi/balance which means I know I can put him on a Winger(a) role as pure or off footed winger and he can take on his defender and beat him.

This last player is an example of one of the only 18-19 year olds that actually features in my best 11.

Spoiler

Mikic, a 5.25m Croatian from Dinamo Zagreb, is well balanced enough to slot in straight away after the poaching of my starting right back Michał Karbownik via release clause. Ordinarily I would have liked a season or two to get some of his mentals up to snuff, but I've intentionally covered for him with the rest of my backline remaining fully grown pros. His versatility also ensures his value to the squad (as a winger or fullback option).

I would always look to keep player's at the club compared to loaning them out, as you can do a much better job of it than the AI. In general if you're comparing two wonder kids for one position, I would reevaluate your recruitment style. Unless a much higher quality youngster becomes available who you can't turn down signing, that's not a situation you should be really be ending up in. The two youngsters above were signed because they can both do things for me now and have intrinsic qualities I won't be able to coach onto any player w/just high PA.

If a player has super high PA according to your scouts, but he can't fit into your system now, then I would probably just not sign him. If there's a youngster who's surplus to requirements I'd probably just take the cash now and invest in someone else (5m in the current season is worth way more than 20m 2 years later). Sending player's out on loan is usually a last resort for me. 

Edited March 9 by Cloud9

[bosque]

Thanks for the detailed answer!

3 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

In general if you're comparing two wonder kids for one position

I'm definetly not in the wonderkid hunting recruitment style. I'm actually trying to develop youngsters. But not sure what to do with the ones that once 18 y/o don't look great (or how to tell if they look "ok", or "not bad") but the coaches think they still have potential to grow.

[Cloud9]

27 minutes ago, bosque said:

Thanks for the detailed answer!

I'm definetly not in the wonderkid hunting recruitment style. I'm actually trying to develop youngsters. But not sure what to do with the ones that once 18 y/o don't look great (or how to tell if they look "ok", or "not bad") but the coaches think they still have potential to grow.

If the youngsters are academy kids I would give them extra benefit of the doubt

To simplify: The ability to do one aspect of the game well is a strong indicator of a future squad player! 

Edited March 9 by Cloud9

[bosque]

2 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

If the youngsters are academy kids I would give them extra benefit of the doubt

To simplify: The ability to do one aspect of the game well is a strong indicator of a future squad player! 

Great! I think this is the kind of answer I was looking for. Thanks!

[HanziZoloman]

Thanks @Cloud9 and @bosque the discussion helped me as well. 
 

[Batigoal__]

Hello everyone,

Since the arrival of Jean-Louis Gasset at Olympique de Marseille following the sacking of Gennaro Gattuso, Illiman Ndiaye has found his best role.
His numerous calls and ball grabs make him a real free electron who disrupts defensive lines.
In a 433, what roles will you see to achieve the result in the screenshot ?

The role of F9(s), DLF(s), CF(s) in this 433 organisation seem the most suitable and creative, but the drop-off dynamic doesn't seem to be as marked as the role given to the player in real life.
The addition of a PIs Roam from position and TIs Focus play through the middle does not accentuate a more seated position.

I'm sharing the video from which the capture is taken : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJch_23He8E

Thanks for your contributions

 

Edited March 9 by Batigoal__

[Cloud9]

Is there a worse feeling on FM than seeing your squads general personality ruin your Model Citizen?

Do personalities on scouts also impact the personalities in/around the first team? Or is that just reserved for first team coaches.

Edited March 10 by Cloud9

[bosque]

Does it makes sense to focus play down the flank where the opposition is using an Inverted Wingaback or Attacking Wingback to take advantage during the transition when they just lost possession? Or focus play instruction only kicks in once the attacking transition is over? 

[crusadertsar]

On 09/03/2024 at 23:44, Cloud9 said:

Is there a worse feeling on FM than seeing your squads general personality ruin your Model Citizen?

Do personalities on scouts also impact the personalities in/around the first team? Or is that just reserved for first team coaches.

No, team personality is not affected by scouts or other staff. It's purely an amalgam of your player personalities. That's has to be the worst feeling  Did you put him in a mentoring group my mistake or something? I never mentor my model professionals (unless by another model professional) and never seen this happen to any of my model professionals before. 

Edited March 11 by crusadertsar

[Cloud9]

On 11/03/2024 at 06:54, crusadertsar said:

No, team personality is not affected by scouts or other staff. It's purely an amalgam of your player personalities. That's has to be the worst feeling  Did you put him in a mentoring group my mistake or something? I never mentor my model professionals (unless by another model professional) and never seen this happen to any of my model professionals before. 

Shoot, thanks for the info here. Good to know on the staff personality!

I've been careful to keep him out of mentoring loop. I just got this notification on his training report and then saw him bumped down to "resolute"  He's 21, but counts as a squad leader on the dynamics screen.

Squads general personality is "professional."

Edited March 12 by Cloud9

[HanziZoloman]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Cloud9:

Shoot, thanks for the info here. Good to know on the staff personality!

I've been careful to keep him out of mentoring loop. I just got this notification on his training report and then saw him bumped down to "resolute"  He's 21, but counts as a squad leader on the dynamics screen.

Squads general personality is "professional."

Sometimes it happens with young players after contract renewals. Saw some professionals going to fairly prof.

[Cloud9]

Does anyone have a clear understanding of the "setting targets" system that was added this year?

I've been setting targets with players and it seems like a great way to keep morale and training up. Are there bonus outcomes upon completion of a target to attributes? I'm also a little unclear on how to trigger the reaction to set a target with a player, it seems to come up fairly randomly when I'm praising/criticizing them.

[HanziZoloman]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Cloud9:

Does anyone have a clear understanding of the "setting targets" system that was added this year?

I've been setting targets with players and it seems like a great way to keep morale and training up. Are there bonus outcomes upon completion of a target to attributes? I'm also a little unclear on how to trigger the reaction to set a target with a player, it seems to come up fairly randomly when I'm praising/criticizing them.

Sadly it’s another thing I am not using. But will do so now and try it. 
also: has anyone experience with some squad leaders complaining about the selling of a player (youth prospect). The deal gave us some financial breath (we’re deep red) but he was promising.