11.3 Patch Official Feedback Thread

[milnerpoint]

I have the same issue after the patch. If you read my post (#630 in page 32) I explain my views on this matter and why they have got it wrong, at least with regard to feeder clubs. I also believe that loan fees requested are just too high.

well they work with people involved in football, agents and clubs, do you work within football yourself?

I know its annoying but i think we had it too easy in previous versions.

[Jonfun1980]

Games do get moved for TV, people who say its not going on need to fix it in the options. Just checked DIV 2 contracts and mine look fine.

[Jamie_Lf]

Be nice to have a word from SI on this, i cant see clubs charging for a player if they want him to gain experience!

[Big Papi]

well they work with people involved in football, agents and clubs, do you work within football yourself?

I know its annoying but i think we had it too easy in previous versions.

It doesn't matter if I work within football. It's common sense. A club will never ask for the same fee for a season long loan and for a month long loan. You don't need to be an agent or a football professional to figure that out. Also, with loan fees involved in every loan deal, they have made the "can be recalled" option redundant. And I don't want to have anything easy. But it's also common sense that a club who chooses to have a feeder club to send players on loan would never ask for extravagant fees or ask for full wages paid. They pay my club to be their feeder team so why would they ask for a million pounds to loan me one of their youngsters? They way they have made it now, means that lower teams will never be able to afford loaning good youngsters from higher clubs. They will only be able to afford the same level of players they already have, since those are the wage structures they can afford. If a youngster in the Prem League makes 40k per week, which lower league club would be able to afford his wages?

[goat10]

after hour or so on it im happy enough. match engine seems a lot better, my wingers are playing like wingers at last and i managed to sell some bloke for more than double his value after offering him out. cheers si. but please try and keep this stuff in fm 12 and not do the usual slipping backwards thing, ta

[Gudge]

Be nice to have a word from SI on this, i cant see clubs charging for a player if they want him to gain experience!

It has already been answered

It was a change made for FM11, based on the info we were given by agents and other people in the football world. It was wrong in previous games, as we were unaware it was the norm.

[Cougar2010]

Be nice to have a word from SI on this, i cant see clubs charging for a player if they want him to gain experience!

SI have already commented earlier in the thread.

They say this is how it works IRL.

Has anyone actually tried negotiating the fee at all?

[wackettdagenham]

Just typical, I just notice the new patch has been released and tonight is the one night I won't be on the laptop as I will be at the Tottenham-Milan game. Guuurrrrr. I will just have to wait till after work on Thursday circa 5pm.

[milnerpoint]

It doesn't matter if I work within football. It's common sense. A club will never ask for the same fee for a season long loan and for a month long loan. You don't need to be an agent or a football professional to figure that out. Also, with loan fees involved in every loan deal, they have made the "can be recalled" option redundant. And I don't want to have anything easy. But it's also common sense that a club who chooses to have a feeder club to send players on loan would never ask for extravagant fees or ask for full wages paid. They pay my club to be their feeder team so why would they ask for a million pounds to loan me one of their youngsters? They way they have made it now, means that lower teams will never be able to afford loaning good youngsters from higher clubs. They will only be able to afford the same level of players they already have, since those are the wage structures they can afford. If a youngster in the Prem League makes 40k per week, which lower league club would be able to afford his wages?

first off, can you tell me a single occasion the AI has activated the recall clause? In all my time of playing FM never once have they ever used it, however you can still insert it if you want to and as such its not redundant at all, infact that side of things will make no difference at all to how the system works now.

Do you have inside knowlage of how loan deals work in the real world? If so please provide back up to what you are saying and i am sure SI will have a look at it, if not there is no way you can say for certain one way or the other, the system will not be perfect but if they have been told its more realistic to have fee's based on advice from agents and clubs then who are we to argue?

If a youngster is on £40k a week i dont really see why their club would want to loan them out, before they get that kind of wages they must be a very very good youngster, and if thats the case you would have had to pay through the teeth for them either way.

Feeder clubs will still send you loan players for free during a season, its just if you want to sign extra players they havent offered you get treated like any other team, i dont see the issue there, you will still benefit each season from having the affiliation.

[BrunoDP]

After 1.3, all the badges and flags are missing (I don´t use any other DB or file than that the SI provides).

Problem now solved - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/257655-After-1.3-all-the-badges-and-flags-are-missing

[Big Papi]

first off, can you tell me a single occasion the AI has activated the recall clause? In all my time of playing FM never once have they ever used it, however you can still insert it if you want to and as such its not redundant at all, infact that side of things will make no difference at all to how the system works now.

If there is a fee involved you can't add this clause. It's true that in the game I've never had the AI recall a player. But it does happen irl.

Do you have inside knowlage of how loan deals work in the real world? If so please provide back up to what you are saying and i am sure SI will have a look at it, if not there is no way you can say for certain one way or the other, the system will not be perfect but if they have been told its more realistic to have fee's based on advice from agents and clubs then who are we to argue?

I don't need inside knowledge to know that a club wouldn't ask for 1m for a season long deal and again 1m for a month long deal.

If a youngster is on £40k a week i dont really see why their club would want to loan them out, before they get that kind of wages they must be a very very good youngster, and if thats the case you would have had to pay through the teeth for them either way.

In my save, my parent club has about 15 prospects in their reserves, most of whom have extravagant wages. We're not talking about real life here. In the game, as time progresses, rich clubs give very high wages to their players. Even their hot prospects or decent youngsters.

Feeder clubs will still send you loan players for free during a season, its just if you want to sign extra players they havent offered you get treated like any other team, i dont see the issue there, you will still benefit each season from having the affiliation.

That's my main complaint. It doesn't work like this anymore. Look, I'm not looking for an argument with you here. I'm just saying that the system needs further tweaking.I know that a lot of loan transfers involve fees. But I doubt that eg. Oldham paid 1m to loan Ben Amos from Man Utd, so the game should be tweaked to ask for more reasonable fees. After all, a lot lower league teams have 0 budget, so how could they afford to loan promising youngsters from higher division clubs? And the 100% wage contribution is also high, when a club clearly loan lists players to gain experience in the lower leagues.

[tranmereforever]

But why does it the majority of time only seem to be applying for leagues directly above?

Why for example would Coventry loan Shaun Jeffers to Southend for free but charge Tranmere 22k?

Southend - Ash Taylor 4k ( Tranmere ), Shaun Jeffers Free (Coventry ), Ross Smith Free ( Blackburn )

Tranmere- Shaun Jeffers - 22k ( Coventry ) Ross Smith Free ( Blackburn )

Leeds- Ross Smith 40k ( Blackburn )

[Big Papi]

But why does it the majority of time only seem to be applying for leagues directly above?

Why for example would Coventry loan Shaun Jeffers to Southend for free but charge Tranmere 22k?

Southend - Ash Taylor 4k ( Tranmere ), Shaun Jeffers Free (Coventry ), Ross Smith Free ( Blackburn )

Tranmere- Shaun Jeffers - 22k ( Coventry ) Ross Smith Free ( Blackburn )

Leeds- Ross Smith 40k ( Blackburn )

That's what I'm trying to find out! How does the loan system work now?

[milnerpoint]

If there is a fee involved you can't add this clause. It's true that in the game I've never had the AI recall a player. But it does happen irl.

Yes it does happen in real life, but in the game that clause is solely for our use, so really its not an issue that AI clubs will never ask for it really is it?

I don't need inside knowledge to know that a club wouldn't ask for 1m for a season long deal and again 1m for a month long deal.

your most likely right on that one to be honest, like i say the system is not perfect as it stands.

In my save, my parent club has about 15 prospects in their reserves, most of whom have extravagant wages. We're not talking about real life here. In the game, as time progresses, rich clubs give very high wages to their players. Even their hot prospects or decent youngsters.

I must say i have not seen youngsters who would be considered for loaning on massive wages, playing as aberdeen in the SPL loaning players is vital but i have never seen man u or any of the big teams paying £40k to a player they would consider for loaning, not unless they have signed him for a lot of money recently.

That's my main complaint. It doesn't work like this anymore. Look, I'm not looking for an argument with you here. I'm just saying that the system needs further tweaking.I know that a lot of loan transfers involve fees. But I doubt that eg. Oldham paid 1m to loan Ben Amos from Man Utd, so the game should be tweaked to ask for more reasonable fees. After all, a lot lower league teams have 0 budget, so how could they afford to loan promising youngsters from higher division clubs? And the 100% wage contribution is also high, when a club clearly loan lists players to gain experience in the lower leagues.

so are you saying feeder clubs do not offer players on loan anymore? If so then yes i would completely agree its not working correctly, i will have to check this out tonight.

see answers in bold

[Marc Albrighton]

Anyone else noticing defenders just standing there sometimes? It was there before the patch but seems to happen a lot more, it would be easier to take if the defenders tried and failed to tackle rather than just standing there or running after them 3 seconds later.

[daformrobbie]

If I, or any of the other people who raised it with me this evening, had known that was happening for previous updates, it would not have happened then either for the same mentioned legal and licensing reasons.

That's because he hadn't joined by the end of January, which is when the data lock was.

that is a stupid reason, the data lock is then but we dont recieve the half hearted update till half way through march?

[Pompey1978]

With regards to the loan fees/wages issue.

I haven't played the game post-patch yet as I only discovered it had been released when I got to work today. However, if it's now the case that feeder clubs are being asked for money to faciliate loans from their parent clubs, this HAS changed from 11.2.1.

I'm playing as Hartlepool, and have Manchester United as my parent club. In 5 seasons I've probably had about 8 or 9 players on loan, and not once have I had to pay either a fee or a contribution to their wages. I'll test it tonight on my save, but this is alarming news if it turns out to be true.

[Robert the Spud]

Just typical, I just notice the new patch has been released and tonight is the one night I won't be on the laptop as I will be at the Tottenham-Milan game. Guuurrrrr. I will just have to wait till after work on Thursday circa 5pm.

I'm perfectly willing to use your ticket if you want to stay in and play FM tonight.

Lucky %?&*!!*

[Big Papi]

See my answers in red

If there is a fee involved you can't add this clause. It's true that in the game I've never had the AI recall a player. But it does happen irl.

Yes it does happen in real life, but in the game that clause is solely for our use, so really its not an issue that AI clubs will never ask for it really is it?

The reason I mentioned this clause it that I have found that sometimes, when managing in the lower leagues, players refuse to move on loan to your club. But when I made another loan offer wit this clause activated they accepted. Maybe it's random.

In my save, my parent club has about 15 prospects in their reserves, most of whom have extravagant wages. We're not talking about real life here. In the game, as time progresses, rich clubs give very high wages to their players. Even their hot prospects or decent youngsters.

I must say i have not seen youngsters who would be considered for loaning on massive wages, playing as aberdeen in the SPL loaning players is vital but i have never seen man u or any of the big teams paying £40k to a player they would consider for loaning, not unless they have signed him for a lot of money recently.

In my save Man Utd who is my parent club, have about 15 young players in their reserves - mostly regens - who make huge wages and they are all loan listed. I used to loan at least 2 or 3 every season but now I can't cause I can't afford the wages or the fees they ask for.

That's my main complaint. It doesn't work like this anymore. Look, I'm not looking for an argument with you here. I'm just saying that the system needs further tweaking.I know that a lot of loan transfers involve fees. But I doubt that eg. Oldham paid 1m to loan Ben Amos from Man Utd, so the game should be tweaked to ask for more reasonable fees. After all, a lot lower league teams have 0 budget, so how could they afford to loan promising youngsters from higher division clubs? And the 100% wage contribution is also high, when a club clearly loan lists players to gain experience in the lower leagues.

so are you saying feeder clubs do not offer players on loan anymore? If so then yes i would completely agree its not working correctly, i will have to check this out tonight.

I can't confirm that 100% until later in the week mate. I was offered a player as usual, for free, before I downloaded the patch. A little while later I patched up and I haven't been able to loan a single player from my parent club, or any other club for that matter. The fees they ask for are extravagant for loan listed youngsters. I could buy 4 key players for my squad with the money they are asking for!If only I had that kind of money...

[Gudge]

With regards to the loan fees/wages issue.

I haven't played the game post-patch yet as I only discovered it had been released when I got to work today. However, if it's now the case that feeder clubs are being asked for money to faciliate loans from their parent clubs, this HAS changed from 11.2.1.

I'm playing as Hartlepool, and have Manchester United as my parent club. In 5 seasons I've probably had about 8 or 9 players on loan, and not once have I had to pay either a fee or a contribution to their wages. I'll test it tonight on my save, but this is alarming news if it turns out to be true.

If your agreement allows them to send you players on loan every season with no loan fee and no wages paid by you then this will remain as it is.

If you ask to loan players from your parent club (rather than them sending the players to you on loan) then you may have to pay a fee and a percentage of the players wages.

[Big Papi]

With regards to the loan fees/wages issue.

I haven't played the game post-patch yet as I only discovered it had been released when I got to work today. However, if it's now the case that feeder clubs are being asked for money to faciliate loans from their parent clubs, this HAS changed from 11.2.1.

I'm playing as Hartlepool, and have Manchester United as my parent club. In 5 seasons I've probably had about 8 or 9 players on loan, and not once have I had to pay either a fee or a contribution to their wages. I'll test it tonight on my save, but this is alarming news if it turns out to be true.

Unfortunately it's true mate. I for one, have experienced this since last night and I'm wondering if it's worth it managing a lower team any more. I managed to loan one player from ManU (my parent club as well!) before the patch. Then I saw the patch was out, stopped playing mid-transfer season and downloaded it. Now I can't afford to loan any players and am stuck with a lesser squad than I had planned for...

[Pompey1978]

If your agreement allows them to send you players on loan every season with no loan fee and no wages paid by you then this will remain as it is.

If you ask to loan players from your parent club (rather than them sending the players to you on loan) then you may have to pay a fee and a percentage of the players wages.

Is the part in bold a change for 11.3?

I can't remember off the top of my head what the terms of the agreement are; hence I'm using caveats like "if this is true", as I don't want to get annoyed about something that isn't actually an issue :-)

edit to say: I've had both players sent to me from the club at the start of the season, and have also approached them for loan players. In both cases, I've never had to pay a penny.

[smithy20]

Loving the patch but seriously, TV games in the prem league are a bit odd, it went from virtually none everyweek to now the boxing day fixture were every game is on TV

[milnerpoint]

thats strange as i say i am now 10 years in and i havent seen players on huge wages in the reserves, that sounds a bit buggy to me, no way these kids should be getting that kind of money.

Yeah ill report back tonight, i am just away to start a new season and i have man u as a parent club so ill see if they offer me any players for free like normal, if not then i would be very disappointed, it would ruin the parent club set up for me.

[outtasync]

First thing I noticed on the new patch is this. I'd like to know if it's a bug for me, or did SI do this on purpose??

How on earth can anyone read this? IMO it adds no new functionality whatsoever

[Gudge]

Is the part in bold a change for 11.3?

I can't remember off the top of my head what the terms of the agreement are; hence I'm using caveats like "if this is true", as I don't want to get annoyed about something that isn't actually an issue :-)

edit to say: I've had both players sent to me from the club at the start of the season, and have also approached them for loan players. In both cases, I've never had to pay a penny.

Yes, it's a change for 11.3. As has been mentioned, this is what we've been told is common practice.

Also previously it was too easy to sign decent players on loan without having to pay a loan fee or contribute towards their wages, don't you think?

[milnerpoint]

Yes, it's a change for 11.3. As has been mentioned, this is what we've been told is common practice.

Also previously it was too easy to sign decent players on loan without having to pay a loan fee or contribute towards their wages, don't you think?

thats fine then i was a bit worried you guys had got rid of the parent club thing altogether, i would agree with the paying fee's if you want the players on loan and yes it was a tad easy to snap up very very good youngsters for nothing before.

[dking]

I'm never buying this game on ****ing steam ever again. I didn't want the patch until after my season had finished so I just left steam on hoping it wouldn't download and to my horror, it has, the day before my champions league final which means my tactics are now completely screwed.

Not SI's fault but I just had to rant. What a complete balls up.

Is there some way to stop this incredibly annoying nonsense happening on steam, for future reference?

[Bardi Golriz]

First thing I noticed on the new patch is this. I'd like to know if it's a bug for me, or did SI do this on purpose??

How on earth can anyone read this? IMO it adds no new functionality whatsoever

Okay, this is certainly not intentional. Please try deleting your cache (http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/233554-Football-Manager-2011-FAQ?p=6066653&viewfull=1#post6066653) and rebooting the game.

[Pompey1978]

Yes, it's a change for 11.3. As has been mentioned, this is what we've been told is common practice.

Also previously it was too easy to sign decent players on loan without having to pay a loan fee or contribute towards their wages, don't you think?

I'd never really thought about it, I just assumed that was the way things happened IRL. However, if you guys have been told that the new model is how it actually works, then that's fair enough.

[milnerpoint]

I'm never buying this game on ****ing steam ever again. I didn't want the patch until after my season had finished so I just left steam on hoping it wouldn't download and to my horror, it has, the day before my champions league final which means my tactics are now completely screwed.

Not SI's fault but I just had to rant. What a complete balls up.

Is there some way to stop this incredibly annoying nonsense happening on steam, for future reference?

turn off the autoupdate function on steam, or dont go online when you start up steam.

Why will your tactics be screwed by the way? I have played 6 months game time with the same tactics as i used since the demo version and they are still working fine.

[Alex89]

I'm afraid I have to say I'm overall not very happy with the improvements made on the new patch, and by that I mean I'm not at all happy with the Match Engine.

The players playing wide are still absolutely useless, outrunning everyone to the byline and then passing back and forth on the flank and waiting 'till the whole opposition defence gets in their place before attempting a cross in - to me it's simply a game ruining factor. Also, the behaviour of forwards in the 18 yard box and their poor decision making between passing and shooting is just awful and I'm still unsure about the free-kick thing.

I've been waiting for the 3rd patch before I really made my mind about Fm11, but now that I've tested it I can officially say that I'm disappointed and will not be enjoying the game untill FM 12 comes out.

On the positive side, there were obviously many tweeks made in the new patch, which could've vastly improve the gaming experience, and I understand that it would be extremely hard to fix ME problems in just one patch, but still for me, a football game with ME problems is simply unenjoyable.

Alex

[Cougar2010]

I'm never buying this game on ****ing steam ever again. I didn't want the patch until after my season had finished so I just left steam on hoping it wouldn't download and to my horror, it has, the day before my champions league final which means my tactics are now completely screwed.

Not SI's fault but I just had to rant. What a complete balls up.

Is there some way to stop this incredibly annoying nonsense happening on steam, for future reference?

There is an option on Steam to "Always keep this game up to date" or "Automatically download patches for this game"

Simply untick the option.

[Cougar2010]

I'm afraid I have to say I'm overall not very happy with the improvements made on the new patch, and by that I mean I'm not at all happy with the Match Engine.

The players playing wide are still absolutely useless, outrunning everyone to the byline and then passing back and forth on the flank and waiting 'till the whole opposition defence gets in their place before attempting a cross in - to me it's simply a game ruining factor. Also, the behaviour of forwards in the 18 yard box and their poor decision making between passing and shooting is just awful and I'm still unsure about the free-kick thing.

I haven't played any on 11.3 but I didn't experience this on 11.2 so I very much think this is a tactical issue.

Perhaps open a new thread with screenshots of your tactics and/or upload a pkm and I'm sure people will be able to offer you some advice.

[tranmereforever]

Yes, it's a change for 11.3. As has been mentioned, this is what we've been told is common practice.

Also previously it was too easy to sign decent players on loan without having to pay a loan fee or contribute towards their wages, don't you think?

I have no problem with loan fees as such but why is it though that like in my example above Southend can get a player from Coventry on no fee but Tranmere get charged a fee for him, it just seems odd in the sense that if they wanted to loan a player out it would surely be the same rules whether its league one or league two

[Lucas]

I have no problem with loan fees as such but why is it though that like in my example above Southend can get a player from Coventry on no fee but Tranmere get charged a fee for him, it just seems odd in the sense that if they wanted to loan a player out it would surely be the same rules whether its league one or league two

They're in different leagues - Southend are League Two, Tranmere are League One.

Since Southend will be a poorer club and seen as a way of gaining experience, whereas Tranmere being a league higher will be assumed to have the resources to pay a fee for such a player.

[milnerpoint]

I have no problem with loan fees as such but why is it though that like in my example above Southend can get a player from Coventry on no fee but Tranmere get charged a fee for him, it just seems odd in the sense that if they wanted to loan a player out it would surely be the same rules whether its league one or league two

I take it tranmere are in the same division as coventry during this situation yes?

If so it makes sense, the player will be adding to a rivals squad so they should have to pay for that, if the player is moving to a different division he is not in direct competition his current team.

[Big Papi]

Well, one thing is for sure. With the new loan policy lower league managers will face much more of a challenge I won't pretend I'm happy about it or that I agree with this reasoning, but I can acknowledge I can't do much about it other than rant on here, and I've done that a lot since last night. My Vauxhall Motors will have a tough time in the Championship this season!

Overall though, good work on the patch.

Edit: I can confirm the thing about lower divisions. To test this, I added managers in League 1 and League 2 and wasn't asked to pay a fee or contribute wages when I offered to loan players from the Premier league. Only teams from the division below, ie. the Championship, are asked for that. Even feeder clubs unfortunately, when it is them who make the offer. The parent club will still send a player to the feeder club for free at the start of the season. Too bad they always choose to send me their worst youngsters..

[outtasync]

Okay, this is certainly not intentional. Please try deleting your cache (http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/233554-Football-Manager-2011-FAQ?p=6066653&viewfull=1#post6066653) and rebooting the game.

Hi, i deleted the skin cache and rebooted the game, but it's still the same. is there anything else i can try?

[dking]

Zonal marking for cm's still isn't fixed then. My zonal marking cm's still decide to run up the pitch and mark a completely irrelevant player to what the AI is doing.

Pretty sure it said something in the patch notes about this problem being fixed.

[Dirty Harry]

If i've decided to completely reinstall my FM11 for this (HOPEFULLY final update) do i need to put the others on first?

[StevoRobbo]

If i've decided to completely reinstall my FM11 for this (HOPEFULLY final update) do i need to put the others on first?

Why make a thread if you have asked in here anyway?

No you dont need to. Just install 11.3

[Bardi Golriz]

Hi, i deleted the skin cache and rebooted the game, but it's still the same. is there anything else i can try?

Okay, could you please try deleting your settings (http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/233554-Football-Manager-2011-FAQ?p=6066654&viewfull=1#post6066654)? Bear in mind, this will reset all your preferences to the default settings, and you will lose any customisable views you've created.

[Alex89]

I haven't played any on 11.3 but I didn't experience this on 11.2 so I very much think this is a tactical issue.

Perhaps open a new thread with screenshots of your tactics and/or upload a pkm and I'm sure people will be able to offer you some advice.

It could be my fault, I won't be ruling that out. But it still seems odd that in the counter attack an open player at the flank would rather pass back instead of crossing into the box where he has only a tall target man, covered by two shorter defenders, waiting for the ball.

Although I find it hard to believe It may of course also be my fault, will try to look into it, thanks.

[Dirty Harry]

Why make a thread if you have asked in here anyway?

No you dont need to. Just install 11.3

To feel even more glutonous?

[StevoRobbo]

To feel even more glutonous?

Great

[Cougar2010]

It could be my fault, I won't be ruling that out. But it still seems odd that in the counter attack an open player at the flank would rather pass back instead of crossing into the box where he has only a tall target man, covered by two shorter defenders, waiting for the ball.

Although I find it hard to believe It may of course also be my fault, will try to look into it, thanks.

Things I would look at and consider:

A) Mentality of the winger - The higher it is the more likely he is to attempt a risky pass/cross as opposed to keeping possession. Nb on what the ME deems to be a CA the mentality is temp increased during the CA phase.

B) Passing range of the winger - If you've given him a short passing range it could be that the men in the box are outside of your instructed passing range.

C) I would also look at the players attributes - does he have the ability to spot the man in the box and also does he make good decisions.

D) Cross to instructions - make sure they aren't conflicting with the runs that your TM is making.

E) Cross from instructions

F) Overall team instructions/philosophy

I've probably missed some others as well but at least it will give you a starting point.

[baros]

hi there, could someone from SI address the matches being moved for tv issue in the english premier league? Has this being acknowledged as a bug or not?

[Inertia1907]

I have some problems with contract negotiations.

I'm managing Wolfsburg and i've already had 2.2 m€ p/a budget wage.

But when i try to offer a contract to any player i can offer him maximum 650 k€ p/a which a squad role of a key player.

What's the problem about this???

[tranmereforever]

I take it tranmere are in the same division as coventry during this situation yes?

If so it makes sense, the player will be adding to a rivals squad so they should have to pay for that, if the player is moving to a different division he is not in direct competition his current team.

No Coventry are in Championship, Tranmere league one and Southend league two, if they are loaning a player out to get first team experience I doubt they would charge a fee to a league one club but not a league two club especially as the budgets for the two are not very much different