Super Bladesman's English National League System Update - Taking FM10 to Level 10

[pds]

Hi,

I'm fairly new to this forum so forgive my ignorance. I am using Firefox and have tried to download this file but it seems something has gone very wrong!

I click the link on the first post to download the file but then millions of tabs start opening and I can't stop them unless I close the page. I'm desperate to download this as it sounds fantastic but I just can't do it! Anybody able to help?

[Polar Bear]

Crouchaldinho - This might be moot now but earlier in the thread you mentioned Maidenhead appearing in the Southern League as a possible anomaly. They have actually been in the Southern League in recent seasons.

I suspect that the clubs who do not have specific regional competitions set are the ones that are around the boundaries and therefore subject to potential sideways moves IRL, whether that means Isthmian-Southern or Southern-Northern, or indeed diagonal moves such as Southern-BSN.

On another note a challenge has already sprung up utilising this extended pyramid. For anyone with the patience I suggest another - a Win All Non-League Cups challenge. This would entail winning the Trophy, Vase and every single League Cup and regional/County Cup. I'd suggest tackling these competitions in alphabetical order, otherwise you'd be liable to lose track

[DeadZone]

Regarding finances, I do notice that due to alot of teams starting a semi-professional in the lowest levels, many teams are going deep into the red, mainly due to their wage bill, which they simply cannot afford

In my own custom made team, I put myself as an amateur team, yet I still loose money (only progress in competitions has kept me from going stupid into the red), despite only paying staff wages

So, Im thinking for a game-play sake, it maybe an idea to have more teams as amateur (yes I know, its alot of work lol), just to ease up on the money side of things

The biggest three killers Im seeing are

1. Wages (Both players and staff) -

@lvl 10 - averaging about £5,000/month

@lvl 9 - average about £6,000/month

@lvl 8 - average about £9,000/month

Goes up through the levels obviously

2. Ground Maintenance - averaging just over £1,000-£2,000 /month for 10 & 9, rising upto £2,000-£3,000 for 8 & 7

3. Match Day Expenses - averaging £1,000 - £3,000 across the divisions

The problem is, despite increased expenses, income doesnt appear to increase at the same level, so while lvl10 are about 30-50k in the red, lvl 7 teams are easily around the 100k mark in the red

This may even be a case of being something SI may need to be spoken to about and see if the game can be altered for lower rep divisions to prevent crippling debts

In all honesty, Ive not seen a single team in one of these lower divisions without debt, and Im half expecting administrators to start coming in lol

[Andy Baz]

Totally. Awesome.

Unbelievable.

Who to choose!

Who remembers the day that the Conference was first put on the old CM?!

Superb SB, I doff my cap to you, sir

[respo]

i didnt have time yesterday but today i continue adding sub-divisions in 13th level

when i add all way down to 20 i will upload

others can add clubs rules etc

[crouchaldinho]

Crouchaldinho - This might be moot now but earlier in the thread you mentioned Maidenhead appearing in the Southern League as a possible anomaly. They have actually been in the Southern League in recent seasons.

You are correct about that one. My mistake. :o

They are actually set to appear in the Southern League in the regional divisions information too.

I suspect that the clubs who do not have specific regional competitions set are the ones that are around the boundaries and therefore subject to potential sideways moves IRL, whether that means Isthmian-Southern or Southern-Northern, or indeed diagonal moves such as Southern-BSN.

Yes this is true. I think I actually posted earlier that my understanding of the regional division setting was wrong. Having looked through my researcher notes, it seems that the regional division setting should only be use when the club in question always goes into that division. As you suggest, this would explain why some of the Southern Prem and First division clubs are not set. However, some of them still clearly need looking at because when checking the data, there are not that many sides who fall into the overlap. A lot of the teams I listed above actually clearly fall into one territory or the other.

I'm afraid that the problem remains that the boundaries do not seem to work properly and that clubs without a regional competition set run the risk of being picked up and dumped in any available division.

On another note a challenge has already sprung up utilising this extended pyramid. For anyone with the patience I suggest another - a Win All Non-League Cups challenge. This would entail winning the Trophy, Vase and every single League Cup and regional/County Cup. I'd suggest tackling these competitions in alphabetical order, otherwise you'd be liable to lose track

That just might be the ultimate challenge.

Regards,

C.

[pds]

Hi,

I'm fairly new to this forum so forgive my ignorance. I am using Firefox and have tried to download this file but it seems something has gone very wrong!

I click the link on the first post to download the file but then millions of tabs start opening and I can't stop them unless I close the page. I'm desperate to download this as it sounds fantastic but I just can't do it! Anybody able to help?

Now sorted, I was being a thicko!

[Andy Baz]

I'm having problems.

Followed all the steps and the 'lower league edit' file comes up once I've loaded the game up it but once the game has completed the loading process and I click through none of the new teams/leagues are there to manage??

[Drakestone]

Is there anyway that we can make these changes SB, in order to get the squad numnbers working? What are the actual steps needed to be taken? Sorry but myself and I'd imagine the other people that have asked are impatient and can't wait for a new build jut to start a game.

Cheers.

[wezlaar]

Need help Getting this to work!, put it in the tools/editor/data folder only one like it i can find, and chanegd the ingame settings but still cant get it to work

[joshpmilton]

Just downloaded and set-up so will start this tonight and will run alongside all the other games I have going on.

[Lucas]

wezlaar - check the faqs mate.

drakestone - I understand your frustration ... but it is probably best to wait for the build. The time for SB to document exactly how its done for us to tell us is better time spent on updating the editor file itself - don't you think?

I'm sure it will be along soon. Patience is a virtue

[Drakestone]

Need help Getting this to work!, put it in the tools/editor/data folder only one like it i can find, and chanegd the ingame settings but still cant get it to work

Wrong folder if you mean the tools/editor/data folder in the main FM folder.

It needs to go in C:/USERNAME/Documents/Sports Interactive/Football Manager 2010/editor data

[Drakestone]

wezlaar - check the faqs mate.

Patience is a virtue

And one I don't have!!

I agree though, better spent on updates instead. I think I understand what he said before, but that requires creating the whole nation rules from scratch and adding every single cup and league back into it, which I think I'll leave him to do.

[wezlaar]

Cheers found it using search finally!

[hodgester]

Need help Getting this to work!, put it in the tools/editor/data folder only one like it i can find, and chanegd the ingame settings but still cant get it to work

I think you're putting it in the wrong folder....its meant to go in >my documents>sports interactive> data editor

Hope it helps

[Super Bladesman]

Is there anyway that we can make these changes SB, in order to get the squad numnbers working? What are the actual steps needed to be taken? Sorry but myself and I'd imagine the other people that have asked are impatient and can't wait for a new build jut to start a game.

Cheers.

They should be working in the build I upload tomorrow, assuming it passes testing.

[Premier2k]

I'm starting a game with a Level 9 team and I can only offer Amateur contracts to players. I assume that in the unlikely event I get promoted I will soon be able to offer Full Time contracts and Part-Time etc...?

[wezlaar]

is this update on the original patchcause ive been playin the new patch on my other games but it says its the 10.0.0 version when i start this game

[Drakestone]

That just mean it using the 10.0.0 database i'd assume.

And cheers for the update SB, was I right in my assumption that you had to litterally recreate the Nation Rules from scratch again before merging it with the old build database?

[Drakestone]

Oh and SB, it's only a small request but if this IS based on the original database rather than the patch one, can you disable Stephen Carr's (Birmingham) retirement date (which is set before the game even starts, in 2008 sometime). This stops him from being included in the squad and was fixed in 10.1 but i assume isnt in yours.

[dirtyscarab]

I'm starting a game with a Level 9 team and I can only offer Amateur contracts to players. I assume that in the unlikely event I get promoted I will soon be able to offer Full Time contracts and Part-Time etc...?

Yep, I'd like to know this too if anyone here has experienced promotion...

[-simmo-]

The Northern League is now edited as recommended

Will have a think about the reps - I might take a look at the league tables and see if anyone is running away with their Level 10 league in real life. They'd be likely candidates!

Can I suggest not using this method, SB? If sides at this level have won a few FA Cup & Vase games this season, they will no doubt have sacrificed their respective league to a degree - so at this stage the "top" level 10 teams may not be reflected as so in the current league tables.

[Super Bladesman]

Drakestone - ta for that. We can all relax - Stephen Carr is out of retirement in my next build.

This is based on 10.0.0, but MANY of the changes that made it into the the patch db and/or were discussed on the DB issues forum ARE included.

[dirtyscarab]

Hi SB,

Is it worth starting a new game for your update in your opinion? The reason I ask is that I'm loving my save game right now and if the only issues with it are teams getting promoted to the wrong divisions occasionally, then I think I can live with that!

Also I'm hoping that people managing amateur clubs will get upgraded to semi professional if we get promoted...

Thanks SB top job

[DeadZone]

Blades, any thoughts on the finance issues I mentioned earlier?

[O'Leary's Trainee]

Having read about the issues with Chelsea and Man Utd playing minor cups above, I just wanted to throw a question out there.

According to what I've read, that is probably caused by not loading all the levels. Now, I want to use this file when I load up my career game, but intended only to use it down to the levels below blue square (essentially just adding the three premier divisions there), as I am going to run MANY other nations as well for a very slow game indeed, and anything below that level will add too many leagues and quite possibly slow down the game to a speed not even I can live with (and I'm one patient dude).

Anyway... am I to assume, even if I select to load all players from England in the DB that this problem would persist? Does one HAVE to load all the leagues as playable to prevent the issues it may cause?

[Drakestone]

Drakestone - ta for that. We can all relax - Stephen Carr is out of retirement in my next build.

This is based on 10.0.0, but MANY of the changes that made it into the the patch db and/or were discussed on the DB issues forum ARE included.

No problem, peoples heads may have exploded otherwise

@O'Leary, that and the fact that squad number do not work in the original, otherwise I haven't found any 'problems' as of yet.

And I agree about the finances, is there no way you can give them a set fee per-season to offset this?

[Heartwork]

Once I can get hold of my most recent version of the DB down to level 11, would I be able to get some help in sorting out all the details of the clubs in those leagues?

[Super Bladesman]

Having read about the issues with Chelsea and Man Utd playing minor cups above' date=' I just wanted to throw a question out there.

According to what I've read, that is probably caused by not loading all the levels. Now, I want to use this file when I load up my career game, but intended only to use it down to the levels below blue square (essentially just adding the three premier divisions there), as I am going to run MANY other nations as well for a very slow game indeed, and anything below that level will add too many leagues and quite possibly slow down the game to a speed not even I can live with (and I'm one patient dude).

Anyway... am I to assume, even if I select to load all players from England in the DB that this problem would persist? Does one HAVE to load all the leagues as playable to prevent the issues it may cause?[/quote']

I'm likely to upload a Lite version that only goes to Level 8 and trims the number of cups to suit that over the next couple of days.

Blades, any thoughts on the finance issues I mentioned earlier?

I've now changed all Level 10 clubs to Amateur. The majority already were, so while this took a long time it isn't as big a shift in thinking as it perhaps sounds. It should help partway for now at least, anyway.

[Super Bladesman]

Once I can get hold of my most recent version of the DB down to level 11, would I be able to get some help in sorting out all the details of the clubs in those leagues?

Absolutely. I've been expecting a deluge of player info that has yet to arrive

[Super Bladesman]

No problem, peoples heads may have exploded otherwise

@O'Leary, that and the fact that squad number do not work in the original, otherwise I haven't found any 'problems' as of yet.

And I agree about the finances, is there no way you can give them a set fee per-season to offset this?

I could bump up the prize money to plug the gap, but then people would moan at me for that instead...

[trainspotter]

Absolutely. I've been expecting a deluge of player info that has yet to arrive

Are you sure you want to open that can of worms?

My copy of FM has just arrived and I'm excitedly waiting for the DB to load. I honestly haven't been this excited about a CM/FM since I was a kid getting the 93/94 update!

[Andrew_Symonds]

Could someone please tell me if the following clubs appear in this update

Warborough and Shillingford FC

AFC Wallingford

Long Wittenham AFC

Goring United

Checkendon FC

[DeadZone]

Dont think prize money is the best way, it needs to be something that is equal to all teams

Maybe TV Revenue?, sure they dont get it that low down, but due to the game engine we might need to use something not realistic to correct something that... well isnt realistic anyway lol

[O'Leary's Trainee]

I'm likely to upload a Lite version that only goes to Level 8 and trims the number of cups to suit that over the next couple of days.

Thanks. I really have faith in this project, as it appears by far to be the most carefully and accurate project yet on any league - so I really do want to get as much out of it as possible though. I'll certainly have a peak at the stripped version as well (and knowing me, I might eventually go ahead and use it all the way down to level 10 and have a beer and watch TV while the game progresses).

I've now changed all Level 10 clubs to Amateur. The majority already were, so while this took a long time it isn't as big a shift in thinking as it perhaps sounds. It should help partway for now at least, anyway.

A question about amateur clubs. I encountered a few issues with this in my Cayman Islands league, and thought you may be able to shed some light on their function in the game.

In your tests of the English lower divisions - how has the transfers been? In my Cayman league, there is a lot of action as teams can just poach players left and right and not have to pay a penny for them - this has caused a lot of the better players to change clubs very often - sometimes twice in one season - as they are constantly wanted by other teams. In my 3 year soak of that, one player managed to play in 5 different clubs (and, mind you, there are only 8 teams in the Cayman Premier).

Also - when do the teams decide to turn Semi-Pro or Professional. Has this been a problem in those lower leagues, or is it happening to me simply because my leagues are set as the top levels? Any clue as to what activates a teams desire to turn professional? (Ultimately, I want to prevent the Cayman teams from turning pro)

---------

PS. Sorry to take your thread off topic, but I believe these are a couple of issues that, if we can understand them properly, would help anyone make better, more realistic, leagues. You can PM me with your findings in the above two questions - so we don't trail off subject in this topic.

[dirtyscarab]

Also - when do the teams decide to turn Semi-Pro or Professional. Has this been a problem in those lower leagues' date=' or is it happening to me simply because my leagues are set as the top levels? Any clue as to what activates a teams desire to turn professional?[/quote']

Yeah, because of the amateur status, essentially teams can pluck players away from you at any point. (I've basically lost all my 'signings' to poachers in my level 10 game). I say 'signings' because as I can only offer them an amateur contract, I'm not actually paying them anything - they're working for free!

I realize this is SI's problem and not SB's great work...

Also in my past FM games (eg FM09), a teams tends to go from 'semi-professional' to 'professional' when they get premoted from either the BSS or BSN to the BSP. I assume that will happen in SB's league system, but tbh, I don't think anyone's been able to test this so far...

[Wormbo]

Have too say that firstly I havent had the chance to play this update yet but really am looking forward too taking the reigns of my neighbouring team (well they play pretty much over my parents back fence) Cheltenham Saracens.

Will look into the history of both County Cups for you.

Just wondered how you have set teams like Bristol City, Bristol Rovers and Cheltenham Town use the County cup as a reserve fixture dont know if its implementable

[cel1234]

Do players in your region only come to play for you ??? Such as northern league players from newcastle,sunderland,hartlepool,middlesbrough,darlington etc ???

[Scoham]

Have too say that firstly I havent had the chance to play this update yet but really am looking forward too taking the reigns of my neighbouring team (well they play pretty much over my parents back fence) Cheltenham Saracens.

Will look into the history of both County Cups for you.

Just wondered how you have set teams like Bristol City, Bristol Rovers and Cheltenham Town use the County cup as a reserve fixture dont know if its implementable

I know Brighton reserves play in one of the Sussex cups instead of their first team, so if S_B knew they played their reserve teams IRL he has hopefully set them up that way.

[alexw]

SB, I've read through the past few pages briefly and didn't see a squad number explanation.

Have you found the cause of the problem? If so, is it fixed in each level?

Also, I downloaded the file and only loaded level 9 and above, but for some reason, Glossop North End were called "Glosso" in the middle of the match. Do you possibly know the cause of this too?

[Adam_bluebird1901]

sorry if im sounding dumb but, will the squad number fix also include the Blue Square Premier?

I'm the AR for Barrow and getting fed up with people on our football forum whinging at me about Conference Squad Numbers missing etc.

Top Notch Update otherwise tho mate. Gone from having one local Football team on the game (the main one obviously) to having 2 Barrow and Holker Old Boys. Fantastic stuff

[DeadZone]

SB, I've read through the past few pages briefly and didn't see a squad number explanation.

Have you found the cause of the problem? If so, is it fixed in each level?

This has been fixed, it was due to some "header" problems in the XML

The fix will be in the next release

[glennb73]

Ive downloaded the leagues very good work super im wondering if theres any logos for the lowers leagues thanks ? .

[DeadZone]

In relation to club status, I can confirm that amateur teams switch to semi-professional as this has just happened to me

In relation to promotions/relegations Ive also experiencing bizarre happenings like crouchaldinho has

Going into 2nd season, after winning United Counties Div 1

Reality would be United Counties Div 1 & Prem should straight swap (Though I realize you cant yet do this), but out of the 4 teams going up, only 2 went into the Prem

The other two (including myself), went to Spartan South Midlands and Ridgeons Premier. Which of course shouldnt have ever happened

So I reckon we need to ask SI to include direct promotion/relegation relations between specific sub-divisions

Though, I suppose this might be less likely to occur with the new settings maybe?

However, what might be the most worrying thing is

Alot of teams in all regional divisions have shifted strangely

With the 16 teams that shouldnt have moved inside the United Counties Premier Division, 6 have moved to various other divisions

Even in UC Div 1, 2 teams have moved divisions that shouldnt have

And thats just 2 divisions, who knows how many in total across the board

So really, this appears to be something we need to bring up with SI as their "auto-assigning" is doing a hell of alot of shifting where it shoudnt really be needed

[trainspotter]

I've left a game going on holiday mode and it's just got to the end of season three. I didn't have much chance to look around the various leagues but one error, which I think is due to the data, did jump out - Stourbridge have been demoted twice back to the Midland Football Alliance despite two mid-table finished. I think this is to do with their ground which, due to being three-sided, was deemed unfit for Step 4 and above until 2006 when the rules were changed. I haven't had chance to look at the editor but it seems something in their ground settings is triggering the game to auto-demoted them.

[Super Bladesman]

The overnight stability tests have gone well - I just want to have a proper look at the squad number issue myself before I upload the new build (041).

I've had a good go at promotions and relegations, so clubs geographically on the periphery (Kent/Essex/Sussex/South-West and North-East) should be forced to follow more realistic promotion/relegation paths. Hopefully that will have a knock on effect elsewhere too. The whole triangle between Birmingham, London and Swindon needs sorting out next, I agree - I will look to nail down something better there for the next build. Anyway, much of this is an SI issue - I will do what I can I'm also trying to tie together regional first and second divisions, so that Sussex County D2 teams now, for example, will preferentially go to D1. A work in progress, but improved.

Strange thing with Stourbridge there - I've not seen that in my tests at all. Will keep an eye out for it.

[Super Bladesman]

I know Brighton reserves play in one of the Sussex cups instead of their first team, so if S_B knew they played their reserve teams IRL he has hopefully set them up that way.

Indeed I have. This was an awkward issue - I was finding that if I didn't set the clubs reserve teams to enter, the club would steamroller the opposition. When I did set the reserve team as the entrant, the seeding is screwed up.

I figured I'd rather have Bristol City reserves playing Bristol Rovers Reserves in the first round every season than have Bristol City absolutely muller some non-league side 9-0 in every round...

Definitely one for a better solution in the mid to long term - it only affects a handful of the cups though.

[Drakestone]

If you'dd like SB, I'm happy to go through the league and give you any updates that need to be made to kits.

First one:

Northern League Division 2:

Crook Town

Home: Should be amber and black

Away: Should be Sky Blue.

Pictures @ http://www.crooktownafc.com/

Gillford Park FC

Home: All-White

Away: Green and White hoops

Pictures @ http://www.gillfordparkfc.co.uk/

Guisborough Town

Home: Red & White striped

Away: Yellow with Blue sides

Pictures @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guisborough_Town_F.C

Hebburn Town FC:

Home: Yellow and Black striped

Away: N/A

Pictures @ http://www.hebburntownfc.co.uk/

Jarrow

Home: Blue with yellow horizontal stripe across front

Away: N/A

Pictures @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarrow_Roofing_Boldon_Community_Association_F.C

Marske United

Home: Mostly yellow with blue

Away: Mostly red with black and white

Pictures @ http://www.marskeunitedfc.com/

Newton Aycliffe

Home: Red with white sleeves (ala Arsenal)

Away: All Blue

Pictures @ www.newtonaycliffefc.co.uk

Northallerton Town FC

Home: Black and white quarters

Away: All sky blue

Pictures @ http://www.northallertontownfc.net/

Seaham Red Star

Home: Red and white striped, black shorts and socks

Away: White with red on shoulders, white short and socks

Pictures @ http://www.clubwebsite.co.uk/seahamredstarfc/

Stokesley FC

Home: Red and black striped (ala Milan)

Away: N/A

Pictures @ http://www.stokesleysportsclub.co.uk/

Sunderland RCA

Home: Red and white halves (ala Blackburn but red not blue)

Away: All white with black piping

Pictures @ http://www.sunderlandrca.co.uk/

Team Northumbria

Home: White shirts, black shorts and socks

Away: N/A

Pictures @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_Northumbria_F.C.

Thornaby FC

Home: All royal blue, white on shoulders only

Away: N/A

Pictures @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thornaby_F.C. (better seen on the Northallerton site)

Whickham FC

Home: Black and White striped (this is already correct)

Away: All-Sky Blue

Pictures (rather info) @ http://www.whickhamfc.co.uk/index.asp?id=14

Whitehaven AFC

Home: Yellow shirt, white shorts, yellow socks

Away: N/A

Pictures @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitehaven_A.F.C.

If I've missed any teams out (i.e. Washington) it's because I've checked and the kits are already correct in your DB)

I will start doing the rest of the Step 10 teams during today.

[Super Bladesman]

Regarding finances, I do notice that due to alot of teams starting a semi-professional in the lowest levels, many teams are going deep into the red, mainly due to their wage bill, which they simply cannot afford

In my own custom made team, I put myself as an amateur team, yet I still loose money (only progress in competitions has kept me from going stupid into the red), despite only paying staff wages

So, Im thinking for a game-play sake, it maybe an idea to have more teams as amateur (yes I know, its alot of work lol), just to ease up on the money side of things

The biggest three killers Im seeing are

1. Wages (Both players and staff) -

@lvl 10 - averaging about £5,000/month

@lvl 9 - average about £6,000/month

@lvl 8 - average about £9,000/month

Goes up through the levels obviously

2. Ground Maintenance - averaging just over £1,000-£2,000 /month for 10 & 9, rising upto £2,000-£3,000 for 8 & 7

3. Match Day Expenses - averaging £1,000 - £3,000 across the divisions

The problem is, despite increased expenses, income doesnt appear to increase at the same level, so while lvl10 are about 30-50k in the red, lvl 7 teams are easily around the 100k mark in the red

This may even be a case of being something SI may need to be spoken to about and see if the game can be altered for lower rep divisions to prevent crippling debts

In all honesty, Ive not seen a single team in one of these lower divisions without debt, and Im half expecting administrators to start coming in lol

Just coming back to this again, as it's an important point. This could really do with some saved games uploading to SI, with some commentary on things to check out.

Clearly, at the levels we're going to the clubs are often going to be on the breadline, but we're also stretching the game's financial model to the limit I think! I don't know how well the game models the income from merchandise and in particular a clubhouse - a vital source of income at this level. Another thing I often came across was (real) clubs having received huge (7 figure) grants from the FA for ground development.