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Super Bladesman's English National League System Update - Taking FM10 to Level 10

Super Bladesman

By Super Bladesman,
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crouchaldinho

crouchaldinho

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I'm not quite sure why it should be necessary - all the clubs have their geography set... why should it need setting twice, effectively? :D

I'm afraid that I couldn't say why. :(

All I know is that the issues I reported were with teams such as Oxford City, Rugby Town, Truro City, Tiverton etc., and when I looked in the database I found that none of these teams had regional competition settings. Every team in the Isthmian Premier did and every team in all of the Northern divisions did, and I didn't have any observations at all of strange movement involving these teams. So it seems logical that this is the issue.

It also goes back to something someone from SI said on the Beta forum. PM me if you want to discuss.

There's no doubt it can work with just the stadium being set correctly, since adding in the stadia improved the promotions and relegations no end. So I'm at a loss as to why adding this further info should be needed. I will add the info for some of the teams at geographical extremes (teams in Bristol and further south west, for example as these would really only ever go BSS/SouthPrem/SouthD1W/WesternPrem/WesternD1).

Again, I really couldn't say, but at the moment it isn't working properly. That's all I know. :(

Every single Conference South, Conference North, Isthmian Premier, and all of the Northern teams at step 3 and 4 have the regional competition information set. It would seem to be something that is required. I couldn't say why, I'm afraid. I can only conclude that it seems to be a required setting.

PM me to discuss if you would like. I'm keen to do some testing and to try to resolve the issue.

Right now, I wouldn't want to play with even step 3 activated, nevermind step 6, because it ruins the verisimilitude when teams aren't in the right division. As I said before, I'm not looking for perfection, but just getting sensible movement between the divisions.

It seems to me that it is a great shame that SI haven't provided more guidance as to what the various settings in their editor actually achieve. Adding step 3 was made to look as simple as can be in the promotional videos. Once again, it seems that the user must devote hours of their time to finding out how things work. Producing a simple 'official' guide to activating step 3 wouldn't have been difficult, surely, and would have set us all on our way.

Regards,

C. :(

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Super Bladesman

Super Bladesman

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Have you checked lower down the leagues at all C? I wonder if this is a result of having two systems conflicting with each other.

I'm nervous of adding in a lot of work to fix this if it would be easier to remove it from those clubs with settings in! :D Working from the longitude/latitudes would give the game more flexibility also.

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Super Bladesman

Super Bladesman

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is it normal for chelsea and manchester united to be in the northern league brooks mileson cup and the spartan south midlands challenge trophy etc..?? and the combined counties premier cup as they are drawn into the semis and are winning the final 8-0 or so? chelsea have also just won the kent premier division cup?

Absolutely not, that shouldn't be happening (and doesn't for me).

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lee50_11

lee50_11

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Absolutely not, that shouldn't be happening (and doesn't for me).

ok well i'm in my 3rd season playing in N.Ireland i have your leagues loaded up down to level 8, i was just checking out the numerous cups you've added and saw man utd and chelsea winning them against poor teams would you like some screenies if i can find them?

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crouchaldinho

crouchaldinho

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Have you checked lower down the leagues at all C? I wonder if this is a result of having two systems conflicting with each other.

I've only tested at step 3 due to speed issues (i.e. wanting to get through the holidaying as soon as possible to analyse the movement).

I'm nervous of adding in a lot of work to fix this if it would be easier to remove it from those clubs with settings in! :D Working from the longitude/latitudes would give the game more flexibility also.

I don't think the boundary settings are working properly though. Otherwise Truro City wouldn't be ending up in the Northern Premier. :D

All I can say is that since setting the competition regional divisions for each team at step 3 and 4, I haven't had any really strange occurrences. This is holidaying for two seasons.

It does make me wonder how the Conference South and North are split by the game. I imagine it must be something coded into the game because no boundary settings were present in the database originally. Perhaps it was mostly working from regional competition data? All of the Conference teams have regional competition data set, for instance.

Perhaps asking SI for clarification over what needs to be set and how it works is the best way forward before undertaking a lot of work.

Regards,

C.

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crouchaldinho

crouchaldinho

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theres some screenies

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/9028/brrokmileson.jpg

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6804/ccprem.jpg

only seems to be chelsea and man utd entered into these cups just checked all over fixtures i'll see if they get drawn into it again this season

This makes me wonder if it is an issue arising due to you playing in Northern Ireland.

Are the English leagues playable or view-only?

What setting is the detail level on for these competitions?

Regards,

C.

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lee50_11

lee50_11

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This makes me wonder if it is an issue arising due to you playing in Northern Ireland.

Are the English leagues playable or view-only?

What setting is the detail level on for these competitions?

Regards,

C.

they are playable down to level 9 ryman regionals etc, matches in full detail in england are set to none for all competitions

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Super Bladesman

Super Bladesman

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These cups you mention all involve teams picked from specific Level 10 (and Level 9) divisions... That sounds like an issue for SI tbh.

I think there is sufficient demand that when I have sorted out other issues, I will release a 'Lite' version of my addon, featuring perhaps only the top 8 levels and losing some of the county cups.

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lee50_11

lee50_11

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These cups you mention all involve teams picked from specific Level 10 (and Level 9) divisions... That sounds like an issue for SI tbh.

I think there is sufficient demand that when I have sorted out other issues, I will release a 'Lite' version of my addon, featuring perhaps only the top 8 levels and losing some of the county cups.

yeah i realised that they were for the level 9/10 teams, ok thanks for your help, so this has happened to nobody else in the 2nd season? if so then maybe it is my game then, not sure

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lee50_11

lee50_11

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I assume that, due to you only loading down to level 9, the clubs who enter the competitions from level 10 probably aren't loaded into the save game due to having such a low reputation. That must be part of the issue, I would guess.

ah yeah maybe that is it didn't think of that shame i'm on my 3rd season as i would have started again, i guess everyone who uses this loads the full leagues and i should of TBH, i think i'll start the game again, thanks for your help

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crouchaldinho

crouchaldinho

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Good news for you Nik, sort of!

I now believe that I have got the regional competition setting wrong. :o

Having looked through my researcher notes, it seems that the regional division setting should only be use when the club in question always goes into that division. This would explain why most of the Southern Prem and First divisions are not set. However, some of them still clearly need looking at.

So it would seem that this is a game issue after all.

Regards,

C.

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funnylittlefrog

funnylittlefrog

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Hi everyone. Frst of all SB, this is a top effort. However I keep getting a parsing error ever since downloading this file. It isn't effecting my game in anyway really, but I would still rather it wasn't happening. I've been advised to delete my mac folder. I've done this, but to no avail.

Anyway, that isn't my real issue. What I would like to know is how I can go about activating the Level 7 leagues myself. I know that the teams, leagues and players exist in the game, but after fiddling with the editor I still can't seem to get the job done! If anybody could give me a simpleton's guide I would be grateful! I know that I ca start from level 7 on SB's file, but I would like to know how to do it myself.

Thanks, FLF.

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lee50_11

lee50_11

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Hi everyone. Frst of all SB, this is a top effort. However I keep getting a parsing error ever since downloading this file. It isn't effecting my game in anyway really, but I would still rather it wasn't happening. I've been advised to delete my mac folder. I've done this, but to no avail.

Anyway, that isn't my real issue. What I would like to know is how I can go about activating the Level 7 leagues myself. I know that the teams, leagues and players exist in the game, but after fiddling with the editor I still can't seem to get the job done! If anybody could give me a simpleton's guide I would be grateful! I know that I ca start from level 7 on SB's file, but I would like to know how to do it myself.

Thanks, FLF.

check out these videos they should help you:thup:

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RichieVilla

RichieVilla

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Yeh im pretty good mate, GW Clough is still going strong tho im not sure i will renew or not yet, hope your team on FML isnt suffering because of your efforts here :p

Actually wasnt intending to buy FM10 because im still enjoying my 14 season long Leeds save on FM09 but after seeing this thread it has inspired me to join the many on the arduous task of amatuer management.

Anyway dont want to hijack this thread so i will just end by asking if someone could PM me the min specs recommended for this patch if its not to much trouble. Not sure if i will handle it on my system.

PS - i think SI should give you a job with all the work you put into there games :D

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spotg

spotg

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No players added, although if you start the game on Large DB, you get level 7 pretty much kitted out, and some accurate players in some teams down to level 9.

But given the churn even at levels 6 and 7, would be pointless to even try kitting out level 10 teams.

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trainspotter

trainspotter

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Good news for you Nik, sort of!

I now believe that I have got the regional competition setting wrong. :o

Having looked through my researcher notes, it seems that the regional division setting should only be use when the club in question always goes into that division. This would explain why most of the Southern Prem and First divisions are not set. However, some of them still clearly need looking at.

So it would seem that this is a game issue after all.

Regards,

C.

So are we left with a situation where promotion/relegation is just pot luck? Would setting a Regional Division for every team effectively break the game if too many teams from that region were relegated? If that is the case then what could have been a brilliant step forward for FM - the editable leagues - is just going to become a bit of a random experience :(

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Super Bladesman

Super Bladesman

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It hasn't been pot luck at all in my testing - but it's been a little more random in Crouchy's.

I've now added preferred competitions for most of the teams in the following list from him:

Southern Prem - Banbury, Bashley, Brackley, Chippenham, Didcot, Evesham, Halesowen, Hemel Hempstead, Leamington, Merthyr, Nuneaton, Oxford City, Rugby, Stourbridge, Truro City, Tiverton.

Isthmian First North - Great Wakering, Ilford, Lowestoft, Maldon, Northwood, Potters Bar, Romford, Thamesmead, Tillbury, VCD Athletic, Waltham Forest

Isthmian First South - Fleet, Goldalming, Leatherhead, Merstham, Walton Casuals, Whyteleafe

What should be happening is that the game should be checking to see if a team has a specified regional competition, then if it doesn't going with the long/lat values. Clearly it's not doing a great job, and SI are looking into that now. They need examples of where it hasn't done what it should've!

I'll finish adding those from Crouchy's list, where I think one division can be specified at a level, plus I will look to add a few more for lower league clubs at extremes. It's not completely broken at all, but hopefully with a little more help it will work better.

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trainspotter

trainspotter

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The league I have the most knowledge of - the Midland Football Alliance - is totally reliant on longitude/latitude values. It's almost a 50/50 split between Northern League Division One South and Southern League Midlands as to which league the sides would be promoted into. With it being so borderline it certainly couldn't be hardcoded as for at least a dozen sides it could change from season to season. Then there's also the problem of the "creeping North" whereby each season what is classified as "Northern" gets further and further South.

If sides like Truro are indeed ending up in the Isthmian leagues (about 200 miles out of their catchment area!) then it doesn't bode well for teams who are on the edges of different leagues' catchments!

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Scottybee

Scottybee

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Couple of suggestions:

For level 10, do you think it might be worth bumping up some of the team reputations? Not hugely, but to remove teams with a reputation of '1' so the generated players are of a SLIGHTLY better standard (and we may see more goals scored etc).

Northern Leagues:

Noticed the western boundary is set at Penrith, but I would change that to Whitehaven which is right on the Cumbrian Coast (and there are a few teams round about that area that wouldn't be included if Penrith was the cut off point).

I don't mind the odd team slipping through, but hopefully there'll be a fix to get it working fairly smoothly. Still, brilliant work.

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Super Bladesman

Super Bladesman

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The Northern League is now edited as recommended :thup:

Will have a think about the reps - I might take a look at the league tables and see if anyone is running away with their Level 10 league in real life. They'd be likely candidates!

Couple of suggestions:

For level 10, do you think it might be worth bumping up some of the team reputations? Not hugely, but to remove teams with a reputation of '1' so the generated players are of a SLIGHTLY better standard (and we may see more goals scored etc).

Northern Leagues:

Noticed the western boundary is set at Penrith, but I would change that to Whitehaven which is right on the Cumbrian Coast (and there are a few teams round about that area that wouldn't be included if Penrith was the cut off point).

I don't mind the odd team slipping through, but hopefully there'll be a fix to get it working fairly smoothly. Still, brilliant work.

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GeorgeInWales

GeorgeInWales

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SuperBladesman, not sure if you reside more here or on another site i have also seen your work and posted a comment so i'll post my OP here as well:

Thanks for this it has made career managing a whole lot more interesting! A quick point though, the Kent Premier has relegation to Level 10 but there is no Kent Level 10 division in the additional data; I presume this would force them to the Sussex Level 10 instead which is incorrect, they should go to the Vandanel Kent County League which is the correct Level 11 for Kent. There is no Level 10 league in Kent (available space if the Kent LEague wanted a second tier).

Is it possible to edit it to stop teams being relegated from an individual Level 9 league.

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Scoham

Scoham

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Concerning the huge competition list, has a way been programmed in for us to sub-group cups? (think pop-out menu like when you have multiple leagues in one level of the pyramid)

Not yet, unfortunately. Something for the future hopefully.

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psg9hoarau

psg9hoarau

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SuperBladesman - I don't know why - but for some reason the Sussex County Premier division doesn't show up in my game. I've checked countless times and noticed it wasn't in the Level 9 list on the editor either. I'd add it myself but i'm not sure whether it would affect the league structures.

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Roy Keane

Roy Keane

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Hi all, I was looking for some help on a project.

I want to create a 44 team English Premier League (including all clubs from the PL & Championship) which is split into four regions of 11 (North, South, East, West). 28 sides (top 7 from each region) would advance into the League Stage proper while the lowest ranked 16 teams (bottom 4 in each case) enter a sort of Round Robin relegation play-off, with 8 teams eventually relegated to League One.

I know it is quite complicated but could anyone tell me firstly if this is possible, and secondly please explain how it is done?

Thank you.

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Scoham

Scoham

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Hi all, I was looking for some help on a project.

I want to create a 44 team English Premier League (including all clubs from the PL & Championship) which is split into four regions of 11 (North, South, East, West). 28 sides (top 7 from each region) would advance into the League Stage proper while the lowest ranked 16 teams (bottom 4 in each case) enter a sort of Round Robin relegation play-off, with 8 teams eventually relegated to League One.

I know it is quite complicated but could anyone tell me firstly if this is possible, and secondly please explain how it is done?

Thank you.

You need to create a 'parent' competition (e.g. Blue Square North/South) and four 'child' competitions (e.g. Blue Square North and Blue Square South) and use a Championship playoff for all four divisions and a relegation playoff.

Best thing is to set up the leagues and then play around with the playoff settings to try and get it the way you want it. Not sure if what you want is exactly possible but if not you should be able to create something very similar to it.

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Super Bladesman

Super Bladesman

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SuperBladesman - I don't know why - but for some reason the Sussex County Premier division doesn't show up in my game. I've checked countless times and noticed it wasn't in the Level 9 list on the editor either. I'd add it myself but i'm not sure whether it would affect the league structures.

The Sussex County Division 1, at Level 9, is the pinnacle of Sussex football, and is included in my file.

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Super Bladesman

Super Bladesman

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Concerning the huge competition list, has a way been programmed in for us to sub-group cups? (think pop-out menu like when you have multiple leagues in one level of the pyramid)

No, though I have suggested it - it would be a great addition. I suspect SI didn't realise someone would be daft enough to try adding 75 or so cups to a country :D

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DeadZone

DeadZone

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No, though I have suggested it - it would be a great addition. I suspect SI didn't realise someone would be daft enough to try adding 75 or so cups to a country :D

Haha, with the amount of requests for lower levels in most nations within FM, thats a pretty big oversight on their part :p lol

Edit: Oh, you still havent told us what caused the player number issue, so others can prevent doing it :p

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crouchaldinho

crouchaldinho

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Just to let you know that I have managed to get some holiday testing done using the regional competition divisions setting for clubs who had no settings (as per the above post).

The clubs in Isthmian and Southern territory now seem to move pretty sensibly between the two divisions. However, there was one exception so far. I didn't set a step 7 competition for AFC Sudbury and they were dumped in the Northern Premier one season for some reason. :confused:

I'm not convinced the boundaries work properly. Clubs without a regional competition set run the risk of being picked up and dumped in any available division.

It's getting to the point now where I am thinking that I will probably end up starting my save with the default leagues and leave the editor until the game has got better at organising the clubs based on boundaries etc.

I'll test for some more seasons and see how I get on.

Regards,

C.

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Heath Matthias

Heath Matthias

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This doesn't bother me too much (I'm American, what do I know of English geography? :) ), So I will probably continue with the mighty STONE DOMINOES until a few more updates come out. Really enjoying the poor quality of Tier 10. Best "strategy" I have found is "pump ball into box", and hope other team fouls me!

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Super Bladesman

Super Bladesman

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Haha, with the amount of requests for lower levels in most nations within FM, thats a pretty big oversight on their part :p lol

Edit: Oh, you still havent told us what caused the player number issue, so others can prevent doing it :p

It was a fairly complicated issue.

Essentially the squad numbers didn't work when I started my file. At some stage in the beta, they were fixed - but only in newly created files.

I figured this sort of version-ality must be coming from some part of the header info in the xml file. I went in to the editor and started to make a new England file - adding the initial nation rules, deleting the FA Cup etc. I then saved the file as 'test.xml'.

I then replaced the bulk of this test file, from where the league competition rules are specified, with therules from my massive pre-made file that you all have. To this hybrid file.

So: I had the header info (what I call the code at the start of the xml file) from the new file, made in the newer editor build... and then the rules and edits from my file, built from various editor builds over the months I've been working on this.

I didn't think it would work, but thought it was worth trying. It worked :)

I could then easily get the squad numbers enabled for leagues 1 and 2.

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crouchaldinho

crouchaldinho

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SI are looking in to what they can improve from their end with regards to this. I will do what I can in the meantime for tomorrow's build of my file.

Yes, I imagine that this might be one for the second patch update.

I think that if you set regional divisions for any sides causing issues, this should at least make things a bit more realistic.

Let me know how you get on and if there is any testing I can do for you.

Regards,

C.

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DeadZone

DeadZone

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... Not so complicated explanation :p ...

Makes perfect sense

Always a risk of issues when carrying over something from multiple versions

Though, makes me wonder if that was the only issue that was carried over, and if anything was fixed with that little change in the "header" you made without us realizing

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