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Scottybee

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    Sunderland

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  1. Thank you. I suppose what I ideally want is the two IF's to be the major goal threat, with the deep forward dropping off to play them in and create space. My other thought was to have the amc as a shadow striker, to create interplay between him and the striker. I thought this may muddy the waters too much, with the ss and if's all occupying the same area. Same reason as I didn't use an advanced fwd as I didn't want the front 3 all clumped together in the box. In theory, I wanted the trequartista roaming around looking for space but as you say there is too much similarity with the dlf and they step on each other's toes (seems pointless having two players with the same job, supplying the IF's, and it didn't offer the interaction with the striker thay I wanted). Perhaps then I should remove the treq and replace him with a SS or AM (a), to create interplay with the striker and use one IF as a raumdeuter to sniff out the space, relying on the DLF as the main creative influence in that front 4. I suppose I shied away from a raumdeuter as none of my wide men seem suited for it...I have had making two IF's work seem very difficult though. Tried one IF and one winger, the winger got a couple of goals but just wasn't what I wanted in my tactic.
  2. Cleon, is there anywhere that all of your postings/articles are collated together? Always an enjoyable read. I'm currently trying to get a 4-2-3-1 to work with my Blackburn side in 2019. I had an idea in mind, which I'm finding hard to implement (in terms of it playing how it does in my mind). My main strengths are my wingers, who although less effective as inside forwards are playing that role within my system. They are both quick, one is good on the ball, the other not quite so technical. I'm going the route of my striker coming deep, the IF's advancing on and having them played in - with the treq looking for space and opening gaps and the wing backs providing width. Set up is gk (d) cwb (s) cd (d) cd (d) cwb (s) dlp (d) cm (s) Treq (a) IF (a) IF (a) Dlf (s) Flexible/Counter TI's retain possession/shorter passing/push higher/lower tempo Keeper distributing to centre backs, who are both have decent passing and composure. Had been playing with attacking Cwbs but found they were never used as passing options and were often caught too high up the field. Trying them on support to see how this effects things, or would I be better putting them on FB (a) so they offer overlaps but don't play so wide? I see the front 4 as the main source of goals, with the dlp and cm offering an 'out' ball and staying deepee. I have real problems with the IF's offering no threat and constantly running in to blind alleys and being outnumbered. The treq also sometimes comes extremely deep and too close to the cm... As ever, any advice would be greatly appreciated.
  3. On the topic of wingers, I have strong wide players who on both sides are far more suited to playing as wingers (neither great on the opposite side). Am I right in thinking that a FB is the best player to have behind? aware of the problems created by having a 'predictable' attack and poor combinations, so would the best way to go be a W(a) with a FB(s) and W(s) (or even DW?) with a FB(a)? The players in question are quick, skilful dribblers so to me more suited as wingers than wide midfielders.
  4. Excellent thread as ever, brilliant at helping to understand the ME and how to react to the opposition. Also beginning to inspire me to an attacking, high pressing 3-4-3...need to think about how to implement the roles. Wondering whether to fill the team with roles that naturally press and if I could finally use a BWM successfully. Just as a first thought thinking along the lines of... SK (D) CB (X) CB (S) CB (X) DW (S) BWM (D) RPM (S) DW (S) SS (A) DLF (S) DF (D) Main thing I'm wondering initially is will my front '3' all be coming from too deep and will the cm offer enough protection to the defence.
  5. so did you find that most games you were changing to the higher tempo/-retain possession, due to the large amount of teams playing with advanced wingers/inside forwards? I've enjoyed utilising the excellent ideas from this thread, had some decent results with a 4-5-1 but have greatly struggled with possession when making the above amendments. That may be down to the formation than anything else, as it tends to play out in a counter attacking style when playing faster and not trying to keep hold of the ball so much.
  6. after the first few friendlies, I'm sorely tempted to delete this thread! The midfield is killing me at the moment, I've dragged the wingers back and am contemplating changing them to wide midfielders. As it stands, the players are still extremely unfamiliar with the tactic and Alvarez (the F9 and main man) is injured for 4 weeks. Fletcher is injured too, so I'm looking very light up front. edit to add that Alvarez, the focal point of the team, has broken his foot and is out for 5 months. This leaves me with Danny Graham. *hurls laptop at wall*
  7. It's been done before, I know, but I'm aiming to if not recreate - reinvent the tactic used by the great Hungarian side of the 50's. An exciting, attacking, fluid 2-3-3-2/4-2-4 formation based on a deadly striking trio including the (at the time) revolutionary deep lying forward/false 9 pulling the strings and causing havoc in the oppositions defence, leaving them unsure of who to mark. The original tactic relied on the extraordinary skill, creativity and flair of their players. Especially the deadly forward 3 of Puskas, Kocsis and Hidegkuti. So, of course, the natural choice of team to try building this tactic around is my beloved Sunderland. [sarcasm] As you all know, the current Sunderland side has all of the above qualities in abundance[/sarcasm]. Now, I thought I'd try slight variations on my take of the original variation, with my one 'true' representation being the go to and slight tweaks to possibly 'tighten it up' a little against strong opposition. Now, I profess I'm very much a learner when it comes to FM tactics, so it may well be that I have missed or will miss key factors or maybe not get my roles right. Based on what I've read, this is my interpretation: Now, I've chosen 'flexible' due to the number of specialist roles. This is despite everything pointing towards it being a 'very fluid' mentality, due to the nature of 'every player being able to play in every position' extolled in the original, real life tactic. I was also unsure whether to make the MC position a standard central midfielder or a deep lying playmaker, due to the F9 being the true focal point of the team. The other thing is the front 3, I was torn between the two strikers being in the AM positions and both set to shadow strikers, as I believe they should be running beyond the f9 as he withdraws. I hope as advanced strikers, they will both do this satisfactorily. However, will that front 3 work? The two strikers both have to be on attack in my opinion, but should they both be advanced strikers? Any advice in these areas would be welcomed. As for TI's, I don't want the team to push up too much as it's obviously light in centre midfield, so I'm leaving the defensive line as is to avoid too many balls in behind. I've set more creative freedom and roam from positions, to push the 'flexible' more towards 'fluid'. Other than that, only play out of defence and work in to box. From what I understand, the Mighty Maygars mixed up their passing from short pass and move to more direct balls when appropriate (I'm not out to dominate possession, just to be difficult to handle in attack). Looking at the tactic set up as above, I'm almost inclined to say it looks a little suicidal. So for my 'second version' I've pulled the wingers back to ML/R positions. This may turn out to be the way forward, but I'm going to wait and see how it plays out in friendlies first. If anyone has any advice on how I've set up so far, please feel free to share. I won't be making any signings, as have budgets off for first transfer window. So my players will have to adapt! I'll post updates when I've played a few friendlies and/or competitive games.
  8. another small m.e. issue I don't know if has been noted, players winning a tackle well and then just standing back and allowing the opposition to pick themselves up and retake the ball.
  9. Other than the issue with crosses, which is well documented, I'm finding problems with players just running through my whole team. I'm playing 3-4-3 diamond, so obviously have a lot of players in the middle. Yet the opposition are repeatedly able to pick up the ball in the middle of the pitch and dribble past everyone, largely unchallenged, some of my players even choosing just to stand back and admire the run.
  10. My favourite ever tactic was on fm14, a 3-4-3 diamond possession tactic I introduced in my 4th season with Sunderland. It was a very potent attacking tactic, which I set up: Very Fluid, Control SWK (D) CB (X) CB © CB (X) A ADP (A) CM (S) AM (A) IF (A) F9 (S) W (S) with get further forward and free role TI's: Short passing, retain possession, play from the back, work ball into the box, play wider, higher line, hassle, offside, lower tempo, roam from positions. In 15, it's not translating quite so well...but then I don't have as good a team. I had it very fluid as due to the nature of the formation I wanted to create good movement and for players to fill in and cover. However, I've changed to flexible and counter, to get a balance between movement and make it a bit tighter defensively (but with be more expressive as a TI). First few games have been S'oton 1-0 Sunderland Sland 1-0 Swansea Burnley 2-2 Sland Barnsley 0-1 Sland Sland 1-1 Stoke So although we are usually above 60% possession, we aren't doing well enough on the attack. Most CCC we've created has been 3. The passing triangles aren't as clear/effective as in Fm 14. Any suggestion on roles for the midfield diamond? I have the Amc as an attacking midfielder rather than shadow striker in the thinking that he'd offer more defensively while also going beyond the F9 but he isn't being as effective as I'd like. Also, my support winger on get forward and roam which was extremely effective on 14 isnt performing as I'd hope. Last thing, even with play wider the CM's are very close together, almost on top of each other.
  11. In fm14 I achieved success using a 3-4-3 diamond with AML and AMR, IF(A) and W(S) with get further forward and free role. This sounds as though I should get mullered on the flanks, but this wasn't the case. It made lovely passing triangles and some great football. Is the defensive problems of playing with attacking wingers more pronounced in 15?
  12. Thank you. Do you think changing the mentality to counter will be sufficient? I think I have the centre backs who are capable, though I'm toying with going to a stopper/cover combo and dropping the offside trap. Possibly just asking to push higher rather than push much higher. The DMC role is one I'm really struggling with. As I'm not sure which role would best suit the Cattermole role I described above. Disciplined in defence but very high closing down and contributing to attacks. Thinking maybe setting to DM and changing PI's accordingly...also unsure as to who to set to roaming. Thinking the IF's but will that help or hinder their exploiting the space made by the striker coming deep?
  13. Thanks for the advice, had missed the other thread! I was unsure at the lack of attack duties, but had used theories/ideas on very fluid possession based tactic, though the flaws you have pointed out are the clear problems I have been facing. I was worried that due to my weakness being attacked on the wings that having my IF's on attack would leave me even more exposed. However, I see that with support duties they are instead coming inside to try and shoot from range (not what I want) or look for through balls which is pointless as there is no-one to get ahead of them. Hopefully changing from control to counter will help alleviate my weakness to counter attacks and direct balls in behind. I'm torn regarding my DM. Does this tactic make it essential that they be an anchor/half back to protect the defence? I wanted to recreate the role Lee Cattermole plays in reality, believe it or not he is a hugely influential player who drives the other 2 midfielders on. He closes down aggressively from the DMC position but is also our best passer, and makes a big contribution further up the pitch as well as a great amount of defensive responsibility. When the ball is with the keeper, Cattermole comes very deep allowing Brown and O'Shea to spread out almost to the flanks to receive the ball. Then you have Colback who rather than a DLP is more of a standard central midfielder, who contributes in defence and further up the field without truly being 'box to box'. Larsson is more of a box to box midfielder, closing and harrying relentlessly in defence and attack while making runs in to the box. I'll take on board your advice and have a change around, then I'll post my own thread (as its not a Barcelona tactic I'm trying to replicate really...though god knows why I want to try and base mine around a team that finished 14th)
  14. Also, by using 'very fluid' is this actually discouraging my full backs to bomb on past the IF's? Also, would instructing the IF's to 'narrow' actually damage my attacking options by strangling space?
  15. I'm trying to replicate this kind of football as best I can with Sunderland, as Poyet is trying to get us to play similarly, just without the constant pressing (it's more based around keeping the shape, dropping off when the other team has the ball in defence and pressing more aggressively in the middle, mainly through Cattermole and Larsson while Colback is a little more reserved). Trying and trying to get this right, have had some excellent results but 14th and really struggle to create enough chances in most games. The main problem however, is constantly being hit in behind, particularly by the wingers, crosses and diagonal balls over the top for the lone striker. Nearly every goal i concede, sometimes several times per game. Is it just my players? Full backs are the weakest area of the team, but I'd still like them to cope better with more 'average' wingers. My set up is very similar to others I've seen on here, 4-1-2-2-1, duties: SWK D WB A WB A CD D CD D HB D DLP S AP S IF S IF S F9 S Control, very fluid, lower tempo, high defence, hassling, offside trap, work ball into box, look for overlap, play out of defence, play narrower, pass short... Took 'retain possession' off to try and be more dangerous but we are conceding a lot more possession and asst telling me we aren't keeping the ball well enough. Most goals conceded are in behind the defence or on the counter after my f9 has given a sloppy pass away trying to play it out to the wing. So, would it be beneficial going to 'counter' with my TI the same? I'm thinking of trying a quick tempo as well, to stop my defenders (least technical area of my team) from dallying on the ball and getting caught. How successful is this likely to be? For some games, is it possible to keep very slow possession deep to encourage the other team to push on, then quickly counter? Not sure how to implement this, as it feels as though the TI's would only allow the slow possession but not to then switch to a quick, dynamic counter.
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