the premier league have just said, maximum of 25 players in squad next season

[ashley7]

it says nothign about the players having to be english. just that they have to be home grown. and they dont have to start just be in the squad of 25 registered for the season. therefore you may still see a squad of mostley foreign imports

[drunkpunk]

This is ridiculous. La Liga easilly going to become the best league in the world now. At least spains rule is max of 3 non-eu, not a minimum of spanish talent. I dont know if you noticed but spain's youth isn't exactly suffering from allowing lots of EU players in the squads. If the english youth was good enough, they'd be able to break into the teams. Simple. The Premier League have just reduced the quality of the league.

The Spanish sides in Europe (Champions/Europa League) currently need 4 club trained and 4 nationally trained players. As they already have a squad limit of 25 (over 21 isn't it?) I imagine most, if not all already meet this requirement.

Premier League clubs mostly meet this already too.

[sten_super]

but on FM when a player is at your club for 3+ years he becomes homegrown right ? would this also be true in real life from next season ? eg - Torres & Reina, both well over the age of 21 but at Liverpool for 3+ seasons by the end of this season

No - the player has to have been at the club for 3 years before his 22nd birthday in order to qualify as homegrown. So if you sign a foreign player at 18, after 3 years he will become 'homegrown', but if you sign a foreign player at 25 he never will.

It's in line with the Champions League rules (although, as someone pointed out, not including the 4 from your own club part of the rule) and is not discrimatory on nationality grounds, as the players can be from any country. Good move IMO.

[tomtuck01]

I think this rule is ludicrous because it doesn't mean "home grown" at all, it means "association trained".

It means that even more of the best young players from around Europe will be now brought in so that they will qualify as "home grown" players. The chance for English youngsters getting a chance just shrank even more.

[ashley7]

this is basically a scheme to reduce spending without actually using a cap. its got very little to do with english home grown players rather clubs using there acadamies more to bring players through.

[RT--]

At the risk of appearing stupid.......

Why are you classed as "home grown" in England, if you have played all your career in Wales?:confused:

If it's a British thing then why is Scotland and N.Ireland not included? Doesn't really make sense to me.

I'd guess it would apply to Welsh teams who play in the English pyramid (Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham, Newport, etc)

I don't think you're likely to get many players who've played 3 years in the Welsh Premier and suddenly move to a EPL club

[richiebrill]

A couple of points/questions:

1. I've heard through various media outlets, that if Chelsea appeal against their Transfer ban on the last possible day allowed, then the Transfer ban will not take place until next summer. This would enable them to buy in the forthcoming January transfer window. Will SI wait for that decsion to be made or will they put the ban in place in the hope that Chelsea don't appeal?

2. Would this new rule really make the EPL any weaker? The top clubs will still be a draw for major players all over the world and the Premier League will always be the most popular league in the world (if not the best) due to the like of United, Liverpool, Chelsea etc, therefore the money will always be coming in helping the clubs pay even bigger (and IMO stupider) wages then they currently do.

1. I believe the deadline for the appeal is before the release date for FM10 so I would imagine SI are leaving it 'till then before making any decision on what they are going to do.

2. I can't see the EPL becoming any weaker from it. Take Arsenal and Gallas for example, Gallas is in his early 30's so once Wenger decides enough is enough for his playing time they can effectively replace Gallas with another foreign player therefore keeping the same amount of English and Foreign players as they have now, you just won't see the likes of Man City spending millions upon millions on 15 foreign talents. They will just have to spend just the same amount of millions on 4 or 5 English players instead!

[Matthew Le God]

At the risk of appearing stupid.......

Why are you classed as "home grown" in England, if you have played all your career in Wales?:confused:

If it's a British thing then why is Scotland and N.Ireland not included? Doesn't really make sense to me.

Because there are Welsh teams(Wrexham, Swansea, Cardiff etc) in the English leagues. There are no Scottish or N.Irish teams in the English leagues.

[Richardav]

I think this rule is ludicrous because it doesn't mean "home grown" at all, it means "association trained".

It means that even more of the best young players from around Europe will be now brought in so that they will qualify as "home grown" players. The chance for English youngsters getting a chance just shrank even more.

i agree it might make english players less likely to play in the long run with the big teams, there gonna sign the best young players as soon as they can. it seems like the rule might have a loop hole already where sign them young and still have a team with other nationaties

[Damian227]

i agree it might make english players less likely to play in the long run with the big teams, there gonna sign the best young players as soon as they can. it seems like the rule might have a loop hole already where sign them young and still have a team with other nationaties

True but they will still require 8 of these team associated/homegrown players while all these foreign 18 year olds are waiting their 3 years to qualify under the rule. So an english player has enough time to prove himself. Say you lose one of your qualifying players... do you sign a foreign kid who has to wait 3 years to qualify as a non-foreigner or an english player who slots in and fills your requirement?

[Richardav]

True but they will still require 8 of these team associated/homegrown players while all these foreign 18 year olds are waiting their 3 years to qualify under the rule. So an english player has enough time to prove himself. Say you lose one of your qualifying players... do you sign a foreign kid who has to wait 3 years to qualify as a non-foreigner or an english player who slots in and fills your requirement?

if you have sum that have come homegrown and have a good team you can sign the young players and wait for them. it might help the english players now but what about 4,5,6 seasons time?

[Manager Milney]

i think people are getting misdirected by the home-grown bit, because clubs can still spend big money on players that have not trained at an english club for 3 years before 22nd birthday. they just have to take out a different player to register them. say man city wanted to buy kaka when this was already in place, they could but would have to leave one of their existing non home grown players out of the 25 man squad.

[matt_132]

this will most probably not make much of a difference in the game, especially for me. I assume also you will be allowed to register new players in january, like when playing in the spanish league.

[SCIAG]

i think people are getting misdirected by the home-grown bit, because clubs can still spend big money on players that have not trained at an english club for 3 years before 22nd birthday. they just have to take out a different player to register them. say man city wanted to buy kaka when this was already in place, they could but would have to leave one of their existing non home grown players out of the 25 man squad.

Oh no! How would Man City have coped without Fernandes, Boijnov or Castillo?!?

I think that's what we'll see from this rule- no more "foreigners" clogging up squads. It won't actually impact the quality, because instead we'll have similar levels of home-grown players clogging up the squads!, whilst the best foreigners stay in.

[crafty bison]

poor arsenal / liverpool, might need to start buying english players now, aston villa are sorted though having the future england squad in their team/

I despair of people as ignorant as you.

Point 1: "Homegrown" players don't have to be English. Cesc Fabregas qualifies. Gael Clichy qualifies. Ad infinitum.

Point 2: Arsenal have as many quality English youngsters as Aston Villa do, and Jack Wilshere is far better than that Harry Forrester...

[bigdanio]

Big clubs will just buy the youth that they dont mind being on the bench.

Did nobody notice Chelsea signing Sturridge and Turnbull?

[tomtuck01]

Point 2: Arsenal have as many quality English youngsters as Aston Villa do, and Jack Wilshere is far better than that Harry Forrester...

But they dont. :confused:

[BigBeast]

But they dont. :confused:

Exactly, if he thinks they can list half the under 21's and be fine then that's very naive.

In the senior squad, Arsenal have 8 home grown players. Villa have 24.

[silva_gunner]

TBH honest this is a stupid rule. The following arsenal players count as 'homegrown';

Fab

Clichy

Merida

Vela

Bendter

Barazite

Ramsey

Walcott

Wilshere

Denilson

Diaby

Song

Djourou

Although some of them count they aren't all british, which is no doubt the intention

[tomtuck01]

I dont see how Diaby counts.

But I do agree that it is a joke that the majority of those players are classed as "home grown" under this rule.

[silva_gunner]

i think that diaby signed for us at 18, but i may be wrong.

edit; he actually signed for us at 20, so doesn't count after all

[WH]

This wont come into action until the 2010 season so there is no need to have it rushed into FM10 for release day. It could be added with a patch if required at a later date if it is likely to cause delays.

[Serdar]

I personally prefer free rosters but matchday limitations such as; max 6 non-UK player on the pitch and max 8 in the match day squad.

I think the defination of non-UK can be easily made in football terms by stating; anyone who is not allowed to play in the next fixture of England National team is non-UK.

This new rule says; under 21 players are free and teams can have 17 foreigns on the top of it. This is already too much on the top of it I can imagine each team buying lots of 18 year Brazilian and Africans every year since if they come at age 18 by 21 they will be considered as home grown.

[Robin_ellis_19]

Is this going on fm2010 or fm2011?

[leedsfan88]

With this rule being introduced will it be the same as the spanish squad system in FM at the moment????????????

[Jack Rudd]

I personally prefer free rosters but matchday limitations such as; max 6 non-UK player on the pitch and max 8 in the match day squad.

I think the defination of non-UK can be easily made in football terms by stating; anyone who is not allowed to play in the next fixture of England National team is non-UK.

That would be completely illegal unless the UK left the EU, which is not in the FA's power to bring about.

(You've also stated it badly: under your wording, a player who gets an international suspension could count as a foreigner in his club side for months.)

[Dekker2]

Doesn't that just mean English clubs will be more encouraged to hoover up foreign kids? I can foresee FIFA bringing in a rule banning transfers of U18s, which will result in unseemly scrambles for kids' signatures the moment they turn 18.

I personally prefer free rosters but matchday limitations such as; max 6 non-UK player on the pitch and max 8 in the match day squad.

I think the definition of non-UK can be easily made in football terms by stating; anyone who is not allowed to play in the next fixture of England National team is non-UK.

This new rule says; under 21 players are free and teams can have 17 foreigns on the top of it. This is already too much on the top of it I can imagine each team buying lots of 18 year Brazilian and Africans every year since if they come at age 18 by 21 they will be considered as home grown.

I don't think a ban on transfers for U18s would not pass legal muster. A british business can offer contracts to 16 year olds except where specifically prohibited by law (for the smuttier industries).

And your idea is illegal too Serdar, and also disagreeable:I hate the idea of a club having a healthy number of English players, but suffering an injury crisis and having their problems worsened by a quota system constricting team selection - matchday squads need to be flexible.

I think this rule is ludicrous because it doesn't mean "home grown" at all, it means "association trained".

It means that even more of the best young players from around Europe will be now brought in so that they will qualify as "home grown" players. The chance for English youngsters getting a chance just shrank even more.

This is the problem:

The nine-eleven age group players are registered for one year at a time and must live within one hour's travel time of the Academy. The 12-16 age group players are registered bi-annually and must live within 1 ½ hours travel time of the Academy. These restrictions can be lifted for geographically disadvantaged players in the 12 plus age groups.

So - you're a top club: your available pool of recruitment is everywhere you can think of abroad, but within England it's only a small circle stretching an hour's drive around your academy.

Presumably it was done to help small clubs hold on to their youth prospects, and to protect the young 'uns, but to give a player a fair chance of becoming top-quality he should be at one of the best academies around, not confined to whatever club is near his house.

Now, you couldn't have Beckham moving from London to Manchester, like he did, but you can have Macheda flown in from Italy.

[Dale Gribble]

I despair of people as ignorant as you.

Point 1: "Homegrown" players don't have to be English. Cesc Fabregas qualifies. Gael Clichy qualifies. Ad infinitum.

Point 2: Arsenal have as many quality English youngsters as Aston Villa do, and Jack Wilshere is far better than that Harry Forrester...

Point 3: Arsenal don't even have 25 players over the age of 21, only 14. Everyone else doesn't need to be registered and can still play.

[Livew1re]

think it sucks personally, the fa should **** off and let teams pick who they want. too many people trying to fix something that isnt broken. if english players were good enough theyd get to play. simple fact is , they are not good enough so they dont get to play. simple as.

[MSCCG]

think it sucks personally, the fa should **** off and let teams pick who they want. too many people trying to fix something that isnt broken. if english players were good enough theyd get to play. simple fact is , they are not good enough so they dont get to play. simple as.

This isn't just helping the English players in my opinion, I think it just stops teams from buying a 25 man team of established players, so they make room for developing players, English or not. For me, this is a good thing, and something that I think a lot of people do on FM already anyway.

To solve the English youth proximity issue, all the FA has to do is introduce a drafting system where clubs get picks on youth available for contracts that year. It's really as simple as that.

I definitely do not agree with the notions of "preserving and developing the national team" or "improving and maintaining the domestic league" or "preserving national identity" though. I think it's silly, for many reasons.

[Roy Race 9]

This isn't just helping the English players in my opinion, I think it just stops teams from buying a 25 man team of established players, so they make room for developing players, English or not. For me, this is a good thing, and something that I think a lot of people do on FM already anyway.

To solve the English youth proximity issue, all the FA has to do is introduce a drafting system where clubs get picks on youth available for contracts that year. It's really as simple as that.

I definitely do not agree with the notions of "preserving and developing the national team" or "improving and maintaining the domestic league" or "preserving national identity" though. I think it's silly, for many reasons.

I agree with you totally and as a person who has followed my club for many years I prefer to see a Whiteside/Giggs brought through than players brought in;)

However today all clubs are run as businesses, some more than others , and many see it is not their responsibilty to bring through players to play for England etc and needing instant success many turn to established players, who are mostly foreign due to the price................this is every clubs right and I cant believe they have all agreed to this:confused:

unless there is a massive loophole........i.e. I will sign sevaral older/foreign players for my reserve squad:p

cause are we saying once a squad is named of 25, is that it for the season..........I doubt it very much............so if you bought a World class player in the January window you cant play him:D

I love seeing the younger players given a chance but this will weaken the Prem for sure

[Quboid]

The issue I foresee is any half decent player between the ages of 18 and 19 will be bought up by premier league teams as they will then be home-grown when they're older. Everyone will be looking for a star, even if they don't keep the player, it might add a bit to his value.

[Student Boy]

any news from si on this? is it going to be in 2010 game?

[KDR]

The proximity rule seems a bit daft. I know local kids might once have been spotted by Man Utd and Liverpool, and now wouldn't be allowed to go, but by corraling them like they have now, it surely favours the larger local clubs? Now, instead of, say, Liverpool looking at a local kid and thinking 'Not for us', they might take him on, meaning another - possibly more suitable - club loses out. By the same token, kids that are rejected by Liverpool and Everton could end up with only one other choice: Tranmere Rovers.

Nothing against Tranmere, but what if the kid maybe wasn't Prem standard, but would certainly be good enough for someone like WBA (yo-yo side) or another Championship club? Now, the kid can't join the 'better' side because of an accident of birth.

And for my own home-town team, Walsall...we've signed a lot of kids from the local area and brought them through the academy system. Now, we'd have to compete with all the larger local sides, who will take kids on that they might otherwise have not bothered with. Smaller club loses out on new recruitment, while larger clubs will be able to come along and cherry-pick the first team for 'home-grown' players.

Good news from a financial perspective, provided prices aren't silly (and I'm not holding my breath there), but where do the smaller sides get their academy replacements from?

[r0x0r]

This will only affect lower premiership teams, as anyone planning to compete in a UEFA competition already needs to keep to 17 over 21, non home grown players (plus 4 association grown, 4 club grown over the age of 21, and infinite under 21's).

In fact, the rules are less stringent, as others have stated. If Arsenal bought Christiano Ronaldo (yeah, right!) he'd be home grown in the premiership, but only "association grown" in europe.

So for the top 6 there will be NO change at all. Still 25 in the first team squad plus spare u21's, with 4 of them being club homegrown, 4 association homegrown or club homegrown. Teams not used to europe tend to meet the requirements anyway, but if they didn't would have to keep to 8 association or club homegrowns.

And City won't be affected by it either, as I expect Hughes already took the CL registration requirements into account when splashing that cash.

[The Colonel]

I am very much against this ruling. I muc prefer a system whereby clubs can buy who they please - sure, this may indeed get more local players into the team, but only at the expense of potentially better players from elsewhere. In my eyes, its a form of closet xenophobia.

[Arsenal_Fan_1986]

Right ok can I just have this made a little more clear. I pick my 25 players as Arsenal manager, what happens with injuries. Who can and can't I pick outside the 25?

Would I have to make sure all my foreign players are in the 25. What about English players, for example, If I don't pick walcott in my first 25 can he still play for the Arsenal frist team?

I have read every post, I haven't skipped down but I still find it a little confusing. Yes I know I have used this rule in the Champions League but to be honest I just pick my best 25 and by coinsidence I have enough homegrown players and have all my best players in so I never take much notice of what it all means.

[tomtuck01]

In my eyes, its a form of closet xenophobia.

Dont be so bloody ridiculious.

Right ok can I just have this made a little more clear. I pick my 25 players as Arsenal manager, what happens with injuries. Who can and can't I pick outside the 25?

Would I have to make sure all my foreign players are in the 25. What about English players, for example, If I don't pick walcott in my first 25 can he still play for the Arsenal frist team?

I have read every post, I haven't skipped down but I still find it a little confusing. Yes I know I have used this rule in the Champions League but to be honest I just pick my best 25 and by coinsidence I have enough homegrown players and have all my best players in so I never take much notice of what it all means.

From the story on SkySports;

Players who are aged under 21 are eligible over and above the limit of 25 players per squad.

[Arsenal_Fan_1986]

Ah so if you have some star youngster in your team you're ok. What happens if they turn 21 during the season? lol. He becomes ineligible within a day?

Can you imagine your star player turning 21 in September or something and not being able to use him.

[kingpin]

I wouldn't think it would matter if they turned 21 during the season, i'm pretty sure if they aren't 21 before they are the players list is given in they will be ok for the season, just like in the CL....

[AndyPass]

It would use the age applicable when they were registered.

[Arsenal_Fan_1986]

Well in that case it will be a very interesting rule.

I'm not sure how much of an effect it will have on the future national team. When people bring up this debate I always think of teams like Brazil, and how many of there players play together in the Brazilian league?

I found this...

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/news/newsid=1096479.html

I was looking for the brazil squad but there is the Argentina one instead. Not many of the players listed plays in the domestic league, they are scattered all over the place, but these teams 90% of the time will do better than England in the cups.

If you think of the England squad currently how many play in England. Quite a lot wouldn't you say? I think people just look for excuses for Englands poor performences.

Capello knows how to bring a team together and discipline them, and look at the difference in this England team now.

Most people will say to that, we only won 2-1 against slovenia, we only did this and that, we might of won 5-1 but we didn't play well blah blah,

It's just the attitude of the English towards sport, we need to stop looking for these excuses and making up silly rules.