Nike System - Park The Tank

Last night I should of been going to bed early but you know the feeling when there's something on FM you want, you just have to stay up because you don't want to wait Well for me I was playing along on my Tottenham save which I'd been using to develope the "Play Like Pep" tactic. My defence was good but there was still something bugging me about the pushing up/marking/communication with the goalkeeper. The tactic incorperates the Nike system which has been very popular since the very early days of CM.

Let me just run through a little background. Back in the days of CM 3 (when I was still a rookie when it came to wibble/wobble) a theory arose on the forums called DDL (Diagonal Defence Line). Basically what it was you could set up a defence line which was diagonal depending on which side the opposition had the ball on. It was a good system, not perfect, but it seemed to throw the AI out of whack. As the games progress it started to faulter because it just wasn't defined enough.

A couple of versions later a new theory arose on the forums called the "Nike System" due to how it looked like the Nike Tick. I believe it was Cleon and Buxton who originally "invented" the theory which was highly popular in tactics. Basically it's asking one of the central defenders to cover. Obviously the defender asked to cover has to be more agile and quicker (think Carvalho/Gallas partnering Terry). IRL it was used by Mourinho at Chelsea as he needed a faster partner to Terry who just kept his position in defence.

So how to incorperate into FM? It's very simple actually and I believe, don't quote me though, that you can incorperate a Nike System defence into any philosophy apart from Very Fluid which is meant to be a more global system where defenders, midfielders and attackers all help each other in defence and attack. But the defence has to be set up in the Rule of One to make it work and also must have quite a high defence line (without the offside trap which I painfully made the mistake of playing with ). It also allows the Goalkeeper to be part of the defence rather then staying in his position. Here's the set up -

Goalkeeper : 7

DC (Cover) : 6

DC : 8

Fullbacks : 10

MCd or DMC : 9

I just used random numbers to make it easier to understand. Obviously it means your MCd or DMC will focus a lot on helping your defence out but it does allow for the fullbacks to be part of the "transition band" of your tactic because their mentality will allow them to be Rigid rather then very rigid. The rest of the team you can set up by yourself whether you want them to be Fluid, Balanced, Rigid or very Rigid.

With this set up in defence I managed to achieve "Park the Tank" Steam achievement (not conceeding in 10 games) with Tottenham and before you say they were easy games, you are gravely mistaken. The run included Man Utd away (2-0) Liverpool at home (2-0) West Ham away (1-0). There was a few cup games and teams like Hull (A) and Burnley (H). But still, not conceeding in ten when only 2.6% of all steam users that have FM ahve achieved it makes it quite a mean feat

Hope it helps your defence

can you post link

can you post link

Link to what? This isn't a tactic, it's a discussion :confused:

my bad sorry

Well done on your achievement Justified.

How does closing down work in that system? Having the CB's on different closing down settings seems like a bad idea to me, but maybe it works well?

Well done on your achievement Justified.

How does closing down work in that system? Having the CB's on different closing down settings seems like a bad idea to me, but maybe it works well?

Knew I'd forgotten to mention something. I actually have the CD's on the same closing down. The TC splits the closing down but I prefer having the CD's (and GK) on the same.

Edit: 12th game and Gomes was finally beaten by a penalty Corluka is so going to be sold after the season. However 12 games with no goal conceded from open play is still good

But still, not conceeding in ten when only 2.6% of all steam users that have FM ahve achieved it makes it quite a mean feat

Hope it helps your defence

How do you look at What % of steam users have achieved the achievements? (i know its off topic, but you mentioned it so i thought we can divert for my needs:P)

How do you look at What % of steam users have achieved the achievements? (i know its off topic, but you mentioned it so i thought we can divert for my needs:P)

Click on the community tab and paste this link http://steamcommunity.com/stats/34000/achievements

I still use the Nike System to this day, imo its the most solid way you can get a back 4 to play and ensure they don't go for the same man they are marking.

I'm going to try this out.

One question though,

what closing down settings do you recommend for the different parts of the team? Do you match it with the mentalities?

best regards.

I still use the Nike System to this day, imo its the most solid way you can get a back 4 to play and ensure they don't go for the same man they are marking.

I used it extensively on FM08 (I think every single tactic I made included it). However on FM09 I was a little unsure if it worked to it's full potential. It seemed almost better to have a flat four and try and play on the offside trap but happy to see it working again on FM10.

I'm going to try this out.

One question though,

what closing down settings do you recommend for the different parts of the team? Do you match it with the mentalities?

best regards.

Sort of yes. DC's and GK at the moment have the same, fullbacks a little higher etc etc. The MCd or DMC is a little personal preference if you want him closing down higher or a little lower depending if you want him to play as a defensive midfielder or an anchor man.

EDIT After incorperating the Nike System I've played 16 matches and conceeded one goal, which was a penalty so none from open play, with the original Tottenham squad. Outstanding!

could it be possible for you to pm me your tweaked tactic which you have only conceded 1 in 16 im crap with tactics your the man

How have you set up Man/Zonal marking and tight marking?

Do you think that depends on the way you want to play or do you always use the same?

I usually have my back 4 on tight zonal marking but that's just because I don't know how to set this up and it works ok.

Good thread btw.

How have you set up Man/Zonal marking and tight marking?

Do you think that depends on the way you want to play or do you always use the same?

I usually have my back 4 on tight zonal marking but that's just because I don't know how to set this up and it works ok.

Good thread btw.

I'm unsure on Justified's approach, however I prefer man marking over zonal as it allows me to know who is marking who and when. Zonal relies on communication between the defenders and sometimes can cause more trouble for me by players not picking anyone up and allowing balls over the top into 'space'.

But both ways works, for me it's just a preference thing

I understand this but I don't really understand the incorperation in FM, is all it takes placing the dcr as a cover or is there more tweaking involved. I don't really understand what the number beside the positions mean.

As far as I understand its the offensive mentality, so you have one DC playing deeper as the other one,

This thread has me intrigued.

I'd forgotten about the Rule Of One concept, and will see what I can rustle up.

How have you set up Man/Zonal marking and tight marking?

Do you think that depends on the way you want to play or do you always use the same?

I usually have my back 4 on tight zonal marking but that's just because I don't know how to set this up and it works ok.

Good thread btw.

I think Cleon answered your question. My defenders are good enough to play zonal and is how I currently have set up.

I understand this but I don't really understand the incorperation in FM, is all it takes placing the dcr as a cover or is there more tweaking involved. I don't really understand what the number beside the positions mean.

The numbers were just examples of clicks. So if you have you tactic set up and want to incorperate this system you take one defender set him two clicks lower then the other. Then you make sure the goalkeeper has the click between, the most defensive midfielder has one click above the central defender (not the covering one) and the fullbacks have one click more then the defensive midfielder.

As far as I understand its the offensive mentality, so you have one DC playing deeper as the other one,

Correct.

This thread has me intrigued.

I'd forgotten about the Rule Of One concept, and will see what I can rustle up.

Good luck. It does look very solid when you get it right and have the right players for it.

On a side note I think it's unfair to say this is the way Jose Mourinho sets up his defence because last I saw Inter (couple of weeks) ago the defenders didn't play this way anymore. I have no idea if it's because of the players he has or his new preference but in FM the only way I can explain was both CD's were covering but one had more closing down then the other. Might be worth a test sometime.

Mourinho still uses it at Inter. That's why he got Lucio to partner Samuel. He wasn't happy with Cordoba.

TBH, the Nike system is how I always set up my defense ever since it came out. Hence I never use offside trap. It's amazing how much I've learnt and still remember over the years on these forums. I've been visiting without posting much since CM3 days. There have been many good teachers such as Cleon over the years. Remember you had good 4-3-3 tactic a few FM edition a go that was created with Liverpool I believe. It also helps me that I coach youth soccer (in USA) for a living.

Mourinho still uses it at Inter. That's why he got Lucio to partner Samuel. He wasn't happy with Cordoba.

TBH, the Nike system is how I always set up my defense ever since it came out. Hence I never use offside trap. It's amazing how much I've learnt and still remember over the years on these forums. I've been visiting without posting much since CM3 days. There have been many good teachers such as Cleon over the years. Remember you had good 4-3-3 tactic a few FM edition a go that was created with Liverpool I believe. It also helps me that I coach youth soccer (in USA) for a living.

Partly true IMO. As I mentioned above I think he uses the same principles (faster more agile defender plus a braver stronger defender) but the central defenders defend a little more diffrent then his time at Chelsea. Both defend deep but one closes down higher so a stopper in a covering role so to speak.

In FM terms - one is set with "stopper role" and the other one is "defend role" but his D-line is lower than the one he used with Chelsea -

In FM terms - one is set with "stopper role" and the other one is "defend role" but his D-line is lower than the one he used with Chelsea -

I have a little bit of problem with the stopper role in FM though. It sets the CD's mentality higher which imo is wrong. A higher mentality on a CD means IMO he'll participate in attack as a ball playing CD (almost moving into the area between the defence and attack). Not what I'm trying to say at all. If you set two CD's with low mentality with one higher closing down then the other you should get two deep laying central defenders with on stopping and one covering. IMO that's how he's set up at the moment. But it's good to get some discussion on this. I prefer how it was set up in Chelsea but I guess he felt it was the natural move now that he's playing a 4-4-2 diamond.

i'm interested in this set up, but just want to confirm something. Because this requires altering players mentality and closing down, does this mean that the shouts won't work because the default settings have been changed?

I have a little bit of problem with the stopper role in FM though. It sets the CD's mentality higher which imo is wrong. A higher mentality on a CD means IMO he'll participate in attack as a ball playing CD (almost moving into the area between the defence and attack). Not what I'm trying to say at all. If you set two CD's with low mentality with one higher closing down then the other you should get two deep laying central defenders with on stopping and one covering. IMO that's how he's set up at the moment. But it's good to get some discussion on this. I prefer how it was set up in Chelsea but I guess he felt it was the natural move now that he's playing a 4-4-2 diamond.

It makes sense in a way though, because when a lot of coaches think of a stopper, they think of the player at the apex of a diamond defense, with the Sweeper being the nadir. I have a book by a Brazilian coach who described it like that, but he used a flat back with the two center backs executing the stopper and sweeper roles. If you were trying to recreate the Stopper-Sweeper system in FM with a flat back line then using the mentality sliders is a way to go.

Justified altought the deeper mentality of one DC do you also use it as a cover role or both with defending roles ? thanks

Going twelve games without conceding from open play is amazing.

There’s one issue about this system that keeps bothering me. Maybe it’s more of a theoretical problem, but even so: If the striker is attacking the channel between the full-back and the covering CD he will find more space than if he is attacking the opposite channel between the stopper CD and his full-back?

Tafse, you are right, there is more space, but he still has to beat the covering defender to score a goal

Just set it up for a match with Notts County against Lincoln City, ended up winning 1-0, they had 2 ccc. However, I normally concede away from home, so I'm liking what I see so far.

One question, I use the tactics creator, so if I change strategy, does that mean I'll have to change all my defenders mentality settings?

In terms of closing down, what would I do on the sliders? ie. 6 for Cover, 8 for Normal DC, 10 for DMC.....

If you are playing a standard flat 4-4-2.

Would you have the CB with the lowest mentality on the same side as the CM with the lowest mentality or would they be on opposite sides?

In terms of closing down, what would I do on the sliders? ie. 6 for Cover, 8 for Normal DC, 10 for DMC.....

I currently use the same closing down for both. As for the DMC it depends on formation really and how deep/high your playing.

If you are playing a standard flat 4-4-2.

Would you have the CB with the lowest mentality on the same side as the CM with the lowest mentality or would they be on opposite sides?

It would make more sense to play them on the same side yes but I haven't noticed a massive diffrence if I haven't.

Thanks Justified you've been very helpful

I sense you will be come a fine Jedi one day.

I tried this system with Fazio attacking the ball, and Gamberini covering. I found I leaked a lot of goals, with players playing one-twos around my CBs.

Their stats should make them perfect for these roles but it doesn't work for me.

What can I change?

Thanks Justified you've been very helpful

I sense you will be come a fine Jedi one day.

I wish I had the mindpower of a Jedi to switch this damn game off so I could get some sleep

I tried this system with Fazio attacking the ball, and Gamberini covering. I found I leaked a lot of goals, with players playing one-twos around my CBs.

Their stats should make them perfect for these roles but it doesn't work for me.

What can I change?

If you tell me your current set up like mentalities, closing down, formation then maybe I could help. Also what are your goalkeeper and defensive midfielder doing to help?

Oh I see what you mean with Arrows now.

Damn arrows died. Not played this since FM08.

Oh I see what you mean with Arrows now.

Damn arrows died. Not played this since FM08.

Did you used to be a regular poster in this forum before? I remember your name from here I think. Welcome back anyways

All arrows mean now are forward runs often, or rarely.

Yea Cleon I was more of a regular back in the 05/06 days. Never liked 07 so I went away. Lurked about for 08 (good game). Big fan of the CH41212 tactic in 05 with the barrows on the wingers and AM. Oh and your training regimes were great, not made any for 10? Plan to?

I've still got your 41212 btw. Tried it in 06 and 08 with little success. I've not converted onto this one yet. Might do though.

The tactic I'm currently using in this game now is the Flabarama442(flat) fromFM06. But I've leaked goals so I'm trying the Nike tick with it.

It's better. But opposition are still scoring, not given it long though.

I've also converted a tactic from 08. The tactic file is "ame_arsenal". Another 442. I pretty much only like 442 flat or diamond with wide men. I'm never satisfied with other formation no matter how good the tactic is. Strange?

It's good to see you and Justified still about.

You're a sheff utd man and Justified is a Liverpool man like me IIRC.

Buxton and WWFan still around?

There was another poster, his name escapes me.

I knew I recognized the username but was unsure and now I just spotted your join date. Wow you've really jumped into some evolutionary times there with CM/FM. I would really suggest playing around with the TC a while to see what effects what and why as it is the best for theoretical ideas and then when you go into the match you tweak a little more and then you're ready for the classic screen again.

Arrows in a way were used a little unrealistically for SI's liking which saw them removed. I would personally like to know what SI's next step in tactics making will be. I'm hoping that in future there will be some sort of "dots on magnetic board" with maybe sliders "under the hood" so to speak and then the final evolution would just have the dots on board. It allows for custom made formation which I think users would love. Of course it would have to go through a few versions of FM to get right because I'm sure when implemented some weird formations would crop up but it would give us old buys some of that wibble/wobble feeling back without the actual unrealistic positioning of players

The only weakness of the Nike defence is the gaping hole behind the fullback and stopper that is played onside by the covering defender. I find in this situation that it is best to consider the Nike defence as an offset back three of two stoppers either side of a covering defender with a high stamina pacey wingback patrolling the weak side. If you look at Manchester Uniteds first choice back four, that IS the Nike defence in it's ideal form and it is exactly how I have described.

The real key to the Nike defence in my opinion once you have established the two stoppers eitheir side of the cover and supported the three with a pacey wingback, is how you setup your midfield to likewise cover and stop. You could place a stopper CM ahead of your stopper CB but stoppers have a habit of being pulled out of position, especially if the players either side are covers that offer limited aggression to close down passes. A stopper CB with a stopper CM ahead of him could easily be cut apart by passes that go inside to where the covering CM and covering CB are positioned.

A better strategy would be a covering CM ahead of a stopper CB and a stopper CM ahead of a covering CB. This would force a player approaching the covering CM to pass infield to where the stopper CM is, which would force him to pass diagonal forward to where the stopper CB or FB is positioned, where under increasing pressure the player would try to play someone in to where the Covering CB controls.

The two passes leading up to the final attack on the covering CB would be under immense pressure, making the final pass poor into the area where the covering CB is the master.

There is no point building the Nike defence without paying attention to these midfield defensive details or without paying attention to the attacking implications the system has for your side.

sorry if i sound like a complete newbie ( despite playing the game for 3 years), could someone clarify the rule of one and also the closing down settings are adjusting the slider to the number of clicks to the right on the slider from 0 ?

thank you

The only weakness of the Nike defence is the gaping hole behind the fullback and stopper that is played onside by the covering defender. I find in this situation that it is best to consider the Nike defence as an offset back three of two stoppers either side of a covering defender with a high stamina pacey wingback patrolling the weak side. If you look at Manchester Uniteds first choice back four, that IS the Nike defence in it's ideal form and it is exactly how I have described.

The real key to the Nike defence in my opinion once you have established the two stoppers eitheir side of the cover and supported the three with a pacey wingback, is how you setup your midfield to likewise cover and stop. You could place a stopper CM ahead of your stopper CB but stoppers have a habit of being pulled out of position, especially if the players either side are covers that offer limited aggression to close down passes. A stopper CB with a stopper CM ahead of him could easily be cut apart by passes that go inside to where the covering CM and covering CB are positioned.

A better strategy would be a covering CM ahead of a stopper CB and a stopper CM ahead of a covering CB. This would force a player approaching the covering CM to pass infield to where the stopper CM is, which would force him to pass diagonal forward to where the stopper CB or FB is positioned, where under increasing pressure the player would try to play someone in to where the Covering CB controls.

The two passes leading up to the final attack on the covering CB would be under immense pressure, making the final pass poor into the area where the covering CB is the master.

There is no point building the Nike defence without paying attention to these midfield defensive details or without paying attention to the attacking implications the system has for your side.

do i understand you right in that you are saying here, that it is best to use 2CB's (one stopper, one cover), one DL/R/C and a wingback, rather than two DC's and two FB's?

Justified I might be wrong but are you working on another tactic atm

PS Your a gun

Justified I might be wrong but are you working on another tactic atm

PS Your a gun

At work at the moment but I was developing a 4-1-3-2 in the Mourinho mould last night. IS going well and a first version should be up in a couple of days.

Ah, the good old Nike defence

Brings back fond memories here. Good read this one!

On that note, I remember a similar post either from this or another forum. The OP (don't remember the name I'm afraid) used the Nike defence in "reverse" so to speak. This was back on FM09 or FM08, so it might not be viable here, but the theory is interesting enough.

He talked about having a flat 4 with a RoO setup, and DC's playing Nike defence. The point he was making though was that he set the covering CB to ie 10, and the stopper CB to 8. The covering CB was also given medium to low creative freedom, and the stopper was set at a minimum. He then put the stopper CB on 4-5 ticks higher closing down than the covering one, making the "lower" CB go up field to close down attackers while the covering one stayed behind.

Like SFraser talked about, this is basically how Man Utd are playing. Rio is the cover and tugs in behind Vidic, but Rio is the one going forward with the ball or picks out the attacking passes. I haven't yet tried this on FM10, but reading this thread just inspired me to try both the original and the reversed Nike system out.

I understand the system but not how to put it into my game, what tactic instruction does the numbers represent?

I understand the system but not how to put it into my game, what tactic instruction does the numbers represent?

I'm guessing you are referring to the mentality numbers. When we are talking about one DC set at 6 and one at 8, we're talking about the attacking mentality. Every click/notch is one number. 11 being the middle ground, 1 the lowest and 20 the highest

I hope I didn't get too may people confused with the numbers. The numbers were only there to show that the covering DC should have 2 clicks less then the other DC and so on. I didn't mean for people to copy those exact numbers. You have to adapt into your own tactics. If your DC's have higher mentality you have to adapt to their current mentality rather then sinking it down low.

do i understand you right in that you are saying here, that it is best to use 2CB's (one stopper, one cover), one DL/R/C and a wingback, rather than two DC's and two FB's?

Not really.

What I was saying was that the Nike defence is an asymmetric defence with a few inherant vulnerabilities. A traditional sweeper system would have the sweeper in a central position behind multiple aggressive man-marking ball winners. The Nike defence has the sweeper playing further left or further right of centre in a 2 man central defensive partnership with the other man being the aggressive stopper. This creates two inherant weaknesses in the system but at the same time requires far fewer dedicated central defenders. The first weakness is a zone on the outside of the stopper that is being played onside by the covering defender but is very far away from the covering defender. The second is that the area on the outside of the covering defender, especially runs or passes from the wing, can be left unmarked or not closed down very effectively. In other words the side of the defence where the stopper plays might be too far for the sweeper to cover properly, while the side of the defence where the sweeper plays might be too far for the stopper to effectively cover.

The solution to this problem is to play a Fullback on the same side as the covering defender that combines the roles of Fullback and Stopper and to play a Fullback on the same side as the stopper that combines the roles of Fullback and Sweeper. Think of Wes Brown/John O'Shea at right back for Manchester United, Patrice Evra down the left for United or Ashley Cole down the left for Chelsea. Fast fullbacks tend to be quite attacking but in this system they do not have to act like Ball Winners, they simply have to have the pace to get back into defence and sweep up behind the stopper. If the defence is particularly well organised then the two centrebacks and stopper-fullback can act like a back three when the team is attacking, allowing the pacey fullback to operate as a winger. This gives you a system where you have two stoppers either side of a sweeper in defence when the side is attacking. When the side is defending the pacey fullback drops deep and sweeps up on the outside of one stopper, while the actual sweeper covers the inside of both stoppers.

If you then invest in a pacey, direct and hard working winger for the flank opposite the fullback that is essentially playing the Evra/Cole Wingback role, you can have two "floating" wingers that can function as wingers, wingbacks or even sweepers on the outside of your stopper defenders. Alternatively you could play a DMC as your second stopper and go for dual wingbacks from the Fullback position.

It doesn't matter how you choose to develop your team once you decide to play the Nike defence, you just have to realise and understand what the asymmetrical nature of the defence means for your team and where the dangerzones and areas of weakness exist, and how to properly address them. You might play the Nike defence without considering these issues and get on pretty well, but eventually if you do not cover the stopper side effectively and press the sweeper side effectively, you will be caught out in these areas. A good example of the Nike defence being caught out would be to play two equal attacking fullbacks either side of your CB's that are not the fastest or tallest around and play a mentality similar to your Stopper. The stopper side fullback gets caught out by a ball over his head to a winger played onside by the sweeper, the sweeper goes to close down the winger who crosses to the back post where your sweeper side fullback is simply overpowered in the air by a tall striker to nod home a sitter.

How many times have you seen this happen whenever United play Neville or Rafael at RB, especially if Fletcher is missing from the RCM position? The Leeds United goalscorer in the FA Cup scored from precisely that position last week. Take these issues into account when playing the Nike defence. There are gaps in it, but if you deal with them effectively you have a platform for some interesting and effective asymmetric tactics.

I've never been a fan of aplying the Nike system to anything other than a back 4. For any other type of defence system there are a lot better options to use. But for a solid flat back 4 the Nike system is the best you can develop imo. I don't think the issues are as big of a deal as Sfraser makes out either as the difference in the staggered settings shouldn't be that great anyway. Not enough to make the issues like he posted about anyway.