Nike System - Park The Tank

[Justified]

Alternatively you could play a DMC as your second stopper and go for dual wingbacks from the Fullback position.

Exactly, the opening post includes the MCd (or DMC) in the system to slot infront of the two centrebacks so attacks from the front and over the top are hindered. Besides, like Cleon said, I think your overthinking the idea a little. It's not like you have a space of 5 clicks of mentality of the two centrebacks it's more to define the system which Mourinho does, one of his centrebacks is further back and usually anchors the defence. I think he's done ok with the system IRL

[Keniris]

Exactly, the opening post includes the MCd (or DMC) in the system to slot infront of the two centrebacks so attacks from the front and over the top are hindered. Besides, like Cleon said, I think your overthinking the idea a little. It's not like you have a space of 5 clicks of mentality of the two centrebacks it's more to define the system which Mourinho does, one of his centrebacks is further back and usually anchors the defence. I think he's done ok with the system IRL

I think the succes of the Nike system in FM is very logical: the AI uses and advanced/deeplying striker set up, so if your defense is set up in the Nike form, it elliminates the room the deeplying forward normally has.

Then if you have a dmc covering as well, a lot of passing lines to the forwards are cut off or should the forwards receive the ball, there's three of you against two of them.....Also, the DMC is great at cancelling out annoying amc players that operate in between the lines.

[SFraser]

In top level real life football I don't think you are going to see many successful managers fielding teams with gaps on the outside and rear of centrebacks or between defence and midfield where the covering defender has withdrawn.

The game AI may not be acute enough to purposely exploit these deficiencies but it can get lucky and even basic AI systems will find the space if you don't defend it properly.

If you don't think an echeloned defence warrents a pacey fullback covering the ball winning centreback that's your call, but I wouldn't be looking to hand that amount of space to the opponent if I could prevent it.

[dz47]

so if we are using the tactics wizard, would setting up the two DC's as stopper/cover achieve the Nike defence? If not how precisely would you set this up using the wizard? cheers

[dz47]

bump.

have you all abandoned this thread in my time of need???

[Willis]

bump.

have you all abandoned this thread in my time of need???

I think Justified has used this system in his 'Play like Pep' tactic, so you could download that and use it as a guide to see how he has set up the FBs, CBs and ball winning midfielder.

[dz47]

what you talkin' 'bout Willis?

soooo sorry about that...had to do it!

seriously though, thanks for the tip!

[aaannndddiii]

Just making sure here..

Do you use both man marking on both roles? I mean the cover is there to 'cover' through balls right?

So will it be effective to play man marking and zonal marking combination?

By the way, Justified, what is the spesific close down of these defenders you have currently?

Cheers.

[Mr Hough]

will you give more info onto what sliders to put the nike defence in as all i can see is just numbers

[Noel Gallagher]

Mr Hough,

Those numbers are how many notches on the mentality slider.

But as Justified says, you don't necessarily have to use those numbers, you can use what numbers you want so long as they're in the same proximity as each other as they are above in the original post

[Tubey84]

So it's essentially Stopper/Cover with a DMC notched in-between?

Interesting

Personally, I've found that having both centre-halves on ultra-negative mentality solves most of the problems I was having, but hopefully that'll be addressed in a future patch as that shouldn't be the case.

A well thought out approach to defending overall - I'd like to see your opinion on how you would set this up with a three man defence.

[Mr Hough]

Mr Hough,

Those numbers are how many notches on the mentality slider.

But as Justified says, you don't necessarily have to use those numbers, you can use what numbers you want so long as they're in the same proximity as each other as they are above in the original post

i get it i thought it was every notch thanks man

[Comedybegs]

Iv just put this into place in my 1st season Everton save and it worked very well in my first game with it. We only played Blackburn so they who arent exactly (or in fact anywhere near) world beaters, but due to my normal stopper CB being suspended I decided to chuck my young replacement in. They only had 1 CCC and that was when my young substitute DM seemed to fall asleep (might have been complacent as we won comfortably).

I used this style in the last game (09) with a very high line and offside trap on which worked a treat, especially with the right defenders. I tried using the tactics creator to set up my defence this time and whilst I wasn't shipping goals, I couldnt count on getting a clean sheet (much like the current Everton side!) and it set up a few nervy 1-0's or 2-1's.

Obviously this is only one game and I suspect it will need a tweak at somepoint but it looked much tighter.

[ZdlR]

I tried this for about a dozen games of my second season with Newcastle, first season in the Premiership. Can't say it went well.

Goals came primarily from a striker dropping deep to receive the ball, my stopper (Steven Taylor) would go to close him down as expected but not reach him before he passed to his strike partner who was now ghosting into the space left by the stopper and the cover would be absolutely static (Coloccini).

If the deep striker didn't pass it to his partner, he passed it across to the winger who also ghosted past his marker as if they were completely asleep.

I'm not sure how setting mentalities in this way constitutes a defensive system, what with no mention of closing down or marking settings. Incidentally, I'm still politely requesting official definitions of the four marking options. Cleon?

[Willis]

I just managed to get the 'park the tank' achievement using the Nike system as well.

I did this with my 2nd season LOSC side, and although some of the teams I won against in the French league weren't great, I held Bayern and Lyon scoreless as part of the streak.

My back four consisted of the following: Beck - Rami - Santacroce - Fanchone

Thanks for drawing my attention to this system, Justified

[Sammie B]

I just managed to get the 'park the tank' achievement using the Nike system as well.

I did this with my 2nd season LOSC side, and although some of the teams I won against in the French league weren't great, I held Bayern and Lyon scoreless as part of the streak.

My back four consisted of the following: Beck - Rami - Santacroce - Fanchone

Thanks for drawing my attention to this system, Justified

What marking and closing down did you use?

[KingRoyston]

Justified,

In your OP you said you were employing this in your "playing like Pep" tactic, but i'm guessing this may hinder your ability to have rampaging full-backs in the Dani Alves style as the full back mentality has to be relatively close to that of the DCs?

Or have you found that with a high enough starting mentality and Run from Deep instructions you have managed to get the full-backs to overlap and attack in Barca style?

[Comedybegs]

I still find this system to be working very well. Iv had mostly clean sheets, but I have conceeded a couple from corners which will be next on my 'to-do' list.

There are two areas where it falls down in my game. The first is when I play Joey Yobo because although he is physically the perfect cover IMO he lacks the concentration and people can run past him into the space left by the stopper. However when I get a proper defender in there it works like a charm! I cant wait for Jagielka to get fit!

Secondly I can be suseptible on the counter where my full back gets a 2 on 1 situation as he steps out of the line to CD leaving space behind. This is mainly because I play 2 CM's and a DM as my midfield and partly down to my aggressive CD instructions which I may have to change.

Overall though its pretty tight and furthermore because of its effectiveness to snuff out attacks early, we see more of the ball and create more chances which eventually lead to more goals!

EDIT: Just after I finished writing this Yobo lets Suarez ghost past him to score and then 5 mins later concedes a bloody penalty! I go from 1-0 up against Chelsea with 10mins left to losing the game 2-1... At least its December the 23rd so he wont have to wait long to find a new club!

[Sammie B]

I still find this system to be working very well. Iv had mostly clean sheets, but I have conceeded a couple from corners which will be next on my 'to-do' list.

There are two areas where it falls down in my game. The first is when I play Joey Yobo because although he is physically the perfect cover IMO he lacks the concentration and people can run past him into the space left by the stopper. However when I get a proper defender in there it works like a charm! I cant wait for Jagielka to get fit!

Secondly I can be suseptible on the counter where my full back gets a 2 on 1 situation as he steps out of the line to CD leaving space behind. This is mainly because I play 2 CM's and a DM as my midfield and partly down to my aggressive CD instructions which I may have to change.

Overall though its pretty tight and furthermore because of its effectiveness to snuff out attacks early, we see more of the ball and create more chances which eventually lead to more goals!

EDIT: Just after I finished writing this Yobo lets Suarez ghost past him to score and then 5 mins later concedes a bloody penalty! I go from 1-0 up against Chelsea with 10mins left to losing the game 2-1... At least its December the 23rd so he wont have to wait long to find a new club!

you zonal or man marking?

[Comedybegs]

you zonal or man marking?

Zonal. I havent tried MM but I have never been a fan. I tried default but it didnt really work for my team.

[Filke]

very interesting way and its working

[amazin89]

has any one got a tactic they can they can upload that implements this nike system

[mattbuck]

Last night I should of been going to bed early but you know the feeling when there's something on FM you want, you just have to stay up because you don't want to wait Well for me I was playing along on my Tottenham save which I'd been using to develope the "Play Like Pep" tactic. My defence was good but there was still something bugging me about the pushing up/marking/communication with the goalkeeper. The tactic incorperates the Nike system which has been very popular since the very early days of CM.

Let me just run through a little background. Back in the days of CM 3 (when I was still a rookie when it came to wibble/wobble) a theory arose on the forums called DDL (Diagonal Defence Line). Basically what it was you could set up a defence line which was diagonal depending on which side the opposition had the ball on. It was a good system, not perfect, but it seemed to throw the AI out of whack. As the games progress it started to faulter because it just wasn't defined enough.

A couple of versions later a new theory arose on the forums called the "Nike System" due to how it looked like the Nike Tick. I believe it was Cleon and Buxton who originally "invented" the theory which was highly popular in tactics. Basically it's asking one of the central defenders to cover. Obviously the defender asked to cover has to be more agile and quicker (think Carvalho/Gallas partnering Terry). IRL it was used by Mourinho at Chelsea as he needed a faster partner to Terry who just kept his position in defence.

So how to incorperate into FM? It's very simple actually and I believe, don't quote me though, that you can incorperate a Nike System defence into any philosophy apart from Very Fluid which is meant to be a more global system where defenders, midfielders and attackers all help each other in defence and attack. But the defence has to be set up in the Rule of One to make it work and also must have quite a high defence line (without the offside trap which I painfully made the mistake of playing with ). It also allows the Goalkeeper to be part of the defence rather then staying in his position. Here's the set up -

Goalkeeper : 7

DC (Cover) : 6

DC : 8

Fullbacks : 10

MCd or DMC : 9

I just used random numbers to make it easier to understand. Obviously it means your MCd or DMC will focus a lot on helping your defence out but it does allow for the fullbacks to be part of the "transition band" of your tactic because their mentality will allow them to be Rigid rather then very rigid. The rest of the team you can set up by yourself whether you want them to be Fluid, Balanced, Rigid or very Rigid.

With this set up in defence I managed to achieve "Park the Tank" Steam achievement (not conceeding in 10 games) with Tottenham and before you say they were easy games, you are gravely mistaken. The run included Man Utd away (2-0) Liverpool at home (2-0) West Ham away (1-0). There was a few cup games and teams like Hull (A) and Burnley (H). But still, not conceeding in ten when only 2.6% of all steam users that have FM ahve achieved it makes it quite a mean feat

Hope it helps your defence

So let me get this straight, should the Cover defender be the slower or faster defender, bearing in mind the cover defender sits deeper?

[Filke]

cover defender must be faster.

[mattbuck]

Thanks mate.

[szp11]

has any one got a tactic they can they can upload that implements this nike system

This is my tactic. I've lost 19 goals in 46 games (first half of the season lost only 6 goals). Played Leeds in League One.

http://wyslijto.pl/plik/sxd1j10jlc

[Jovetic]

justified can u post the tactic that u use for totenham that concede 1 goal in 12 games ?

[PnyX]

Interesting, will give this a go and see what pops up

[aliuddin]

Does it work for 10.3?

[Guv'nor]

How does this translate to a Nike tick, out of curiosity?

[Bahumat]

How does this translate to a Nike tick' date=' out of curiosity?[/quote']

I think the player positions kinda look like the Nike logo

[gav1979]

how do you set up the nike defense,mentalities ,closing down etc,can't find it in the forum anywhere and i am sure in the past i have seen it on here somewhere?

[penza]

This is my tactic. I've lost 19 goals in 46 games (first half of the season lost only 6 goals). Played Leeds in League One.

http://wyslijto.pl/plik/sxd1j10jlc

hey man cant download that link cheers

[LordFlash]

Hi all,

Just wanted to say that the Nike system combined with the Rule of One mentality seems to be working a treat for me. I've worked York City into the CCC, and while I never have much of a problem scoring as I play a quite attacking 4-3-1-2 formation, I leaked so many goals that a clean sheet was a rarity. I was consistently getting 4-3, 2-3, 5,4, etc scorelines, even had a few 7-5 games! I was getting quite annoyed at the unrealistic scorelines...I was on a run of not having a clean sheet for 10 games straight until I ran into this thread and changed my tactics accordingly.

After 8 games with just these minor tweaks to my backline and ball winning midfielder, I have only conceded 2 goals in my last 8 games (all CCC games against good opposition), one of which was a 35 yard screamer, and the other my reserve GK got dispossessed with the ball at his feet, the nub. :o My two central defenders are Tommy Spurr and Ryan Shotton, both are quite slow (both have pace and acceleration ratings of 10 or 11) yet this doesn't seem to lower the effectiveness of the Nike system for me.

In those 8 games, I've only had a combined total of 3 clear cut chances against me, whereas before I was getting 3 or 4 clear cut chances against me every game!

Normally I just read these forums without commenting, but I've never come across such a seemingly minor tweak to my tactics that have had such a dramatic change to my results. I've never gone 8 games straight with such a seemingly impenatrable back line setup. Recommend people try it and see how it works for them.

[penza]

Hi all,

Just wanted to say that the Nike system combined with the Rule of One mentality seems to be working a treat for me. I've worked York City into the CCC, and while I never have much of a problem scoring as I play a quite attacking 4-3-1-2 formation, I leaked so many goals that a clean sheet was a rarity. I was consistently getting 4-3, 2-3, 5,4, etc scorelines, even had a few 7-5 games! I was getting quite annoyed at the unrealistic scorelines...I was on a run of not having a clean sheet for 10 games straight until I ran into this thread and changed my tactics accordingly.

After 8 games with just these minor tweaks to my backline and ball winning midfielder, I have only conceded 2 goals in my last 8 games (all CCC games against good opposition), one of which was a 35 yard screamer, and the other my reserve GK got dispossessed with the ball at his feet, the nub. :o My two central defenders are Tommy Spurr and Ryan Shotton, both are quite slow (both have pace and acceleration ratings of 10 or 11) yet this doesn't seem to lower the effectiveness of the Nike system for me.

In those 8 games, I've only had a combined total of 3 clear cut chances against me, whereas before I was getting 3 or 4 clear cut chances against me every game!

Normally I just read these forums without commenting, but I've never come across such a seemingly minor tweak to my tactics that have had such a dramatic change to my results. I've never gone 8 games straight with such a seemingly impenatrable back line setup. Recommend people try it and see how it works for them.

Can you upload ure tactic please?

[Mr Hough]

Hi all,

Just wanted to say that the Nike system combined with the Rule of One mentality seems to be working a treat for me. I've worked York City into the CCC, and while I never have much of a problem scoring as I play a quite attacking 4-3-1-2 formation, I leaked so many goals that a clean sheet was a rarity. I was consistently getting 4-3, 2-3, 5,4, etc scorelines, even had a few 7-5 games! I was getting quite annoyed at the unrealistic scorelines...I was on a run of not having a clean sheet for 10 games straight until I ran into this thread and changed my tactics accordingly.

After 8 games with just these minor tweaks to my backline and ball winning midfielder, I have only conceded 2 goals in my last 8 games (all CCC games against good opposition), one of which was a 35 yard screamer, and the other my reserve GK got dispossessed with the ball at his feet, the nub. :o My two central defenders are Tommy Spurr and Ryan Shotton, both are quite slow (both have pace and acceleration ratings of 10 or 11) yet this doesn't seem to lower the effectiveness of the Nike system for me.

In those 8 games, I've only had a combined total of 3 clear cut chances against me, whereas before I was getting 3 or 4 clear cut chances against me every game!

Normally I just read these forums without commenting, but I've never come across such a seemingly minor tweak to my tactics that have had such a dramatic change to my results. I've never gone 8 games straight with such a seemingly impenatrable back line setup. Recommend people try it and see how it works for them.

whats the rule of one mentality?

[Justified]

whats the rule of one mentality?

Where you only have one mentality step between positions.

GK : 6

DR/DL : 8

DC : 7

MCd : 9

MR/ML : 10

MCa : 11

FC : 12

[mattbuck]

I have setup the Nike mentality, but am having trouble, or am unsure on what is the best closing down settings. Any advice?

[andrjam48]

I have setup the Nike mentality, but am having trouble, or am unsure on what is the best closing down settings. Any advice?

Depends on your overall mentality but i find a good starting point is to use your centerbacks mentality as a base and work from there.

For example if your CB`s are set to 8 clicks mentality then set thier closing down to the same same for FB and build from there.

As you watch the matches and i stress you really need to watch the games in extended at first at least then as your more comfortable with your tactic change to key .

hope that helps mate

[mattbuck]

Depends on your overall mentality but i find a good starting point is to use your centerbacks mentality as a base and work from there.

For example if your CB`s are set to 8 clicks mentality then set thier closing down to the same same for FB and build from there.

As you watch the matches and i stress you really need to watch the games in extended at first at least then as your more comfortable with your tactic change to key .

hope that helps mate

Thanks, yeah that does help. I was currently having closing down 1 notch above mentality for players all over the pitch. I am playing zonal tight marking throughout the squad.

Do you think closing down should be the same for all the defensive players, and the rule of 1 for mentality on these players?

[el_magico89]

Thanks, yeah that does help. I was currently having closing down 1 notch above mentality for players all over the pitch. I am playing zonal tight marking throughout the squad.

Do you think closing down should be the same for all the defensive players, and the rule of 1 for mentality on these players?

mate could you explain me, how much difference you have between youre both CBs mentalities?

the tactic creator has for example for the stopper 9 notches and for the cover 5.

in tactical theorems its 8 and 6 so only 2 notches.

what would be the closest one to the reality? or what are you using?

[mattbuck]

mate could you explain me, how much difference you have between youre both CBs mentalities?

the tactic creator has for example for the stopper 9 notches and for the cover 5.

in tactical theorems its 8 and 6 so only 2 notches.

what would be the closest one to the reality? or what are you using?

I think its just down to personal preference to be honest mate. I have been using two notches, but i can see it working with more than that.

I guess the further split you have your CB mentalities the higher your defensive line would need to be.

[oakesypvfc]

I do not really understand it, call me a noob. Is there any chance you could explain it to me in term of team and player instructions etc.

Thanks in advance

[Aquaplex]

How do you implement the Nike defense when trying to play offensive football? The defense end is excellent and is very solid but the problem i'm having is when i'm playing attacking football, my ass man tells me there is a huge gap between my defense and midfield and also it doesn't seem to threaten enough up front. Is nike defense only ideal when trying to play defensive football?

[mattbuck]

A question.

Should the cover DC have tight and man marking like the stopper? I am unsure as to the effectiveness of having my cover on man and tight marking. It seems to make more sense that he would be on zonal marking, so as to pick up anyone that came into his zone?

[tomo31]

How should i best implement this with a 'Top 4' club?

Im currently playing as Chelsea, about to go into 3rd season, but im conceeding more than id like.

Would combining this tactic with the rule of 1 tactic work with a team that should be quite attacking?

Im currently playing 4 across the back & ive just started to try the Nike System, then i have 3 CM in various roles, 1 AM & 2 FC

[mattbuck]

A question.

Should the cover DC have tight and man marking like the stopper? I am unsure as to the effectiveness of having my cover on man and tight marking. It seems to make more sense that he would be on zonal marking, so as to pick up anyone that came into his zone?

Hopefully Justified or one of the other guru's has not forgotten about this thread.

[Mr Hough]

Hey guys i'm using the Nike defence in my latest tactic and i think i have got it spot on check out some of the screens in the opening thread.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=194951

[mattbuck]

A question.

Should the cover DC have tight and man marking like the stopper? I am unsure as to the effectiveness of having my cover on man and tight marking. It seems to make more sense that he would be on zonal marking, so as to pick up anyone that came into his zone?

Hey guys i'm using the Nike defence in my latest tactic and i think i have got it spot on check out some of the screens in the opening thread.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=194951

Will do Mr Plough thanks.

[thebluenosebear]

I changed this a bit so that the DMC/MCD was dropping between the hole of the Defenders and I have the keepr playing behind them as the last line of defence. Also makes it more like a nike swoosh, sometimes you see the Mcd running back from up the park to get behind the ball, I also have it on zonal marking but i've recently been putting the fullbacks on man marking as I saw them get dragged about a bit zonally, seems to be working well kept 12 clean sheets with Rangers and 10 with Worcester

Goalkeeper : 7

DC (Cover) : 8

DC : 10

Fullbacks : 11

MCd or DMC : 9