Who said AI squad building is poor?

No one has broken the so called top 6 for three years now and you can see why.

DATE: 25 July 2014

Man Utd

1st Season - Eden Hazard (15M), Danny da Costa (1M), Figuerido (1M)

2nd Season - Danny (19M)

3rd Season - 4 regens

Chelsea

1st Season - Lucas Piazon (7M)

2nd Season - Bryan Ruiz (9M)

3rd Season - Fabio Coentrao (23.5M), Santi Carzola (21M), Youssuf Mulumbu (14M), Balasz Dszudzsack (13M) <---Can't spell or even say that name.

4th Season - Miralem Pjanic (13M), Regen (3M), Jack Rodwell (18M), Vaclev Kadlec (12M), Gary Cahill (13M)

Arsenal

1st Season - Cristian Ansaldi (12M), Arouca (12M), Mathieu Debuchy (5M), Andre Ayew (11M), Aly Cissokho (7M)

2nd Season - Nacer Chadli (9M), Koray Gunter (2M), Regen (2M), Brahim (2M), Regen (3M), Diego Perotti (7M), Mikael Lustig (3M)

3rd Season - Darras Ludovic (2M), Yohan Cabaye (16M), Samba (19M), El Hamdouia (4M)

4th Season - Steven Davis (8M), Erick Torres (10M)

Man City

1st Season - Yaya Sanogo (2M), Saul (1M), Srna (15M), Ganso (22M)

2nd Season - Lassana Diarra (12M), Arturo Vidal (18M), Di Maria (13.75M), Chyrgnyski (15M), Pantilimon (3M), Carrasso (1M), Regen (2M)

3rd Season - 3 Regens

4th Season - Regen (3M)

Tottenham

1st Season - Gokhan Gonul (13M), Balzaretti (12M)

2nd Season - Maxi Peirira (10M), Cristian Zapata (12M), Naingollan (10M), Joe Ledley (6M), Yarmolenko (12M), Artur Borac (2M), Regen (3M)

3rd Season - Luuk De Jong (4M), Kevin Doyle (10M), Krasic (16M), Vrsaljko (15M), Martin Olsson (15M), Shikabala (3M).

4th Season - Barry Bannan (8M), Isla (12M), Mehdi Benatia (9M)

Liverpool

1st Season - Mangane (15M), Cardozo (11M)

2nd Season - Radu (6M), Badelj (21M), Kayal (7M), Beuno (2M), Regen

3rd Season - Le Tallec (2M), Cristian Benitez (6M), Romo Rafael (1M), Rinaldo Cruzero (7M), Jelavic (4M), Jefferson (3M)

4th Season - Karim Ait Fana (5M), Marko Arnautovic (3M)

In my save nobody other than the top 6 have won the title yet (2026) and it was only the 2025/26 season that anybody broke the top three, Everton and Aston Villa.

In terms of spending:

Arsenal: 11.25m, 57m, 37m, 17m, 35.5m, 10.5m, 78m, 22m, 48.5m, 69m, 51m, 12.5m, 30m, 34m, 33m and 32.5m

Chelsea: 21m, 53m, 45.5m, 52m, 61m, 21m, 63m, 65m, 21.5m, 63m, 49.5m, 68m, 12m, 57m, 134m and 35.5m

Liverpool: 9.25m, 14.25m, 53m, 70m, 30.5m, 47.5m, 7.5m, 49.5m, 32m, 2m, 46m, 22.5m, 28m, 86m, 30m, 49.5m

Man City: 33m, 97m, 31.5m, 83m, 35m, 4.4m, 53m, 8.5m, 23.5m, 2.5m, 68m, 43m, 44.5m, 101m, 1.5m and 97m

Man Utd: 6m, 47.5m, 1.6m, 1m, 23m, 51m, 0m, 44.5m, 59m, 0m, 4.m, 39.5m, 62m, 72m, 38.5m and 20m

Tottenham: 25.5m, 42m, 74m, 56m, 43m, 40.5m, 36m, 36m, 38.5m, 21m, 48m, 41.5m, 68m, 56m, 21m and 69m

The underlining indicates when a club recieved more in transfers out than in.

Bold indicates the title winners that season

Yet, in those transfers hardly any English players?

Quite a few of the regens bought were English and tbf, you don't see many of them teams buy English players bar Tottenham anyway.

well im in my 8th season in the SPL, i am yet to come close to winning the league, this year was my big chance i thought, but Celtic went out and spent £22m in the summer and have gone the first 22 games unbeaten, drawing once, and conceding 7 goals. Their squad is untouchable, any time they lose a player they have a good back up, so far i say the AI squad building is much much better than last years, either that or i have lost my touch.

Good squad building is not a matter of spalshing cash. The AI is rubbish at building a good squad, and the fact that the top clubs stays on top is probably more due to the fact that all other clubs get weaker too...

Edit: as for Celtic's unbeaten run, that always happens in FM for me.

This is my take on a typical FM game.

The Swedish premier league that I usually play in is IRL an incredibly even league where pretty much all teams can and will beat eachother. In FM, however, the league tends to be much more uneven with one or two teams quickly rising far above the others. Usually one of those teams is a smaller team with a pretty poor squad and you can count them out completely. Sooner or later their run ends and they fall down to the middle of the table. The other team is usually one of the top teams and end up winning. Around the time the "over-achieving" minnow team plummets, the "under-achieving" bigger clubs tend to start advancing up the ladder and the end result is always the same - one of the top teams win and the rest finish about where they were expected - often except for one of the top teams who end upp battling for relegation (for seemingly no good reason). This seems to be the general trend year after year regardless of transfers and actual squad strengths.

The reason for this is probably club reputation. To me, it seems like the AI relies heavily on squad reputations when deciding match strategies and as a consequence teams will play a confident attacking game if they are considered a top club, and a cautious defensive game if considered a smaller team. This results in a more or less self-fullfilling prophecy, as it is difficult to win a league playing cautiously defensive...

Add to the frey a team controlled by a competent human manager who quickly out-grows his reputation, and knows how to exploit that, and you have a situation where that team dominates year after year.

Hazard 15 M? Di Maria 13.75M?

there's only 1 explanation for them to be sold so cheaply...THE AI WAS MANAGING BOTH TEAMS.

Good squad building is not a matter of spalshing cash. The AI is rubbish at building a good squad, and the fact that the top clubs stays on top is probably more due to the fact that all other clubs get weaker too...

Yes, but people have been moaning across the forums that the bigger teams don't invest making it easy for them to beat in the league.

Hazard 15 M? Di Maria 13.75M?

there's only 1 explanation for them to be sold so cheaply...THE AI WAS MANAGING BOTH TEAMS.

Those top 6 teams have hardly sold anyone as well.

wow long edit from me there... two replies in the time I added to my post...

Good squad building is not a matter of spalshing cash. The AI is rubbish at building a good squad, and the fact that the top clubs stays on top is probably more due to the fact that all other clubs get weaker too...

Edit: as for Celtic's unbeaten run, that always happens in FM for me.

This is my take on a typical FM game.

The Swedish premier league that I usually play in is IRL an incredibly even league where pretty much all teams can and will beat eachother. In FM, however, the league tends to be much more uneven with one or two teams quickly rising far above the others. Usually one of those teams is a smaller team with a pretty poor squad and you can count them out completely. Sooner or later their run ends and they fall down to the middle of the table. The other team is usually one of the top teams and end up winning. Around the time the "over-achieving" minnow team plummets, the "under-achieving" bigger clubs tend to start advancing up the ladder and the end result is always the same - one of the top teams win and the rest finish about where they were expected - often except for one of the top teams who end upp battling for relegation (for seemingly no good reason). This seems to be the general trend year after year regardless of transfers and actual squad strengths.

The reason for this is probably club reputation. To me, it seems like the AI relies heavily on squad reputations when deciding match strategies and as a consequence teams will play a confident attacking game if they are considered a top club, and a cautious defensive game if considered a smaller team. This results in a more or less self-fullfilling prophecy, as it is difficult to win a league playing cautiously defensive...

Add to the frey a team controlled by a competent human manager who quickly out-grows his reputation, and knows how to exploit that, and you have a situation where that team dominates year after year.

same thing happens in the Portuguese League,benfica were in 8th place 10 games in,27 games in and they're second place.

same thing happens in the Portuguese League,benfica were in 8th place 10 games in,27 games in and they're second place.

Well all i can say is last year i had to use FMRTE to keep things level squad wise by editing managers and teams finances, this year ive not no reason to so far, i definitely see an improvement in squad building and youth development so far. The Celtic thing was just an example of the improvment i have seen so far, in FM11 the Old Firm very quickly dropped off the pace until i stepped in, this time around Celtic are matching my improvements so far.

Squad buidling isn't only down to who the AI buys, its also down to how the AI develops the players it buys, and more importantly develops the new youth players that enter the game when all the player-created ones are in the footballers old peoples home.

So the problems with AI squad building are many. The prime two things that need to be addressed are newgen creation & development, and how the AI looks at transfer targets - at the moment it targets them based mainly on CA, and a lot of AI bought players never even get to kick a ball for their new clubs because they neither fit into an AI managers system, or have the appropriate attributes high enough to dislodge one thats already there. But just because a player has a high CA, they're likely to bid for him anyway. Its probably only because the initial database and early years in your save is awash with loads of fantastic players, players that have to end up somewhere when bought and sold, so its no suprise they end up at the clubs with the biggest reps and most money to spend. Thats probably all you're seeing at the moment. Take another look in 2024.

But by some accounts FM12's squad building has been improved a little over FM11 & FM10, so hopefully you're right.

Well all i can say is last year i had to use FMRTE to keep things level squad wise by editing managers and teams finances, this year ive not no reason to so far, i definitely see an improvement in squad building and youth development so far. The Celtic thing was just an example of the improvment i have seen so far, in FM11 the Old Firm very quickly dropped off the pace until i stepped in, this time around Celtic are matching my improvements so far.

Thats encouraging news milner

Maybe the OP is on to something, if so SI kept this little gem quiet

Hazard 15 M? Di Maria 13.75M?

there's only 1 explanation for them to be sold so cheaply...THE AI WAS MANAGING BOTH TEAMS.

And 22m for Ganso...?!? Ive put in a 38m bid for him that was flatly rejected...

Thats kinda irritating. I wonder if you waited for an AI club to bid for a player you wanted, then matched the bid, would you be accepted, or would the seller want to negotiate...??

And 22m for Ganso...?!? Ive put in a 38m bid for him that was flatly rejected...

Thats kinda irritating. I wonder if you waited for an AI club to bid for a player you wanted, then matched the bid, would you be accepted, or would the seller want to negotiate...??

forgot him,in my save iirc hazard and ganso will only leave for 40mil

Di Maria howhever was put on sale after playing 22 games from the start for RM on the mid of the first season,this also happened during 2011,am surprised that SI still hasn't adjusted his CA to something that wont make be tranfer listed in RM.

And 22m for Ganso...?!? Ive put in a 38m bid for him that was flatly rejected...

Thats kinda irritating. I wonder if you waited for an AI club to bid for a player you wanted, then matched the bid, would you be accepted, or would the seller want to negotiate...??

In my experience asking prices vary massively depending on wether or not the league is loaded where the player is. This could be the reason for the low prices

I don't know about the AI cheating with transfer bids. I've certainly never had it reject an offer from me when accepting the same offer from the AI.

Mulumbu to Chelsea. You couldn't write this.

I totally agree with the OP, AI squad building has improved quite a bit in my opinion in the transfer area . I'm in the BPL in my second season as Liverpool IN 2013 and I won the BPL with them previously in the first season . What's amazing is Tottenham who placed 5th place in the first season has bought over just in a season and a half ( Because I am at January 2013) the following players : Cavani for 45 Million dollars , Gokhan Gonul, Junior Hoillet, Danny , Mauricio Isla , Mark Bresciano , Mauricio Isla and Alex Manniger . Arsenal have bought the likes of two players who you've listed : Cristian Ansaldi and Andre Ayew . I'm not too sure about Chelsea and Man City but currently Manchester United are strongly interested in Hazard but they've so far bought a few players such as : Axel Witsel , Diego Perotti and a few other wonderkids .

Haven't really played a lot yet but these reports are encouraging! Hopefully the game is more challenging on the long term now.

Mulumbu to Chelsea. You couldn't write this.

He also went to Chelsea on mine, guess he's one of this year's nailed on AI transfers. Like Vucinic ALWAYS ending up at Man Utd at some stage on FM11.

So this never happens in the real world?

Yes, but not every year. Anyways that's not my main point. My point was that game results often seem to handle more about reputation and morale than tactics and squad strength. Which explains why FM players see the same teams win year after years despite the AI completely botching squad management.

Another one that the OP mentioned was Ayew to Arsenal. Arsenal signed him in my City game, as well. Is it a 'permanent' transfer?

AI managers have pre-set shortlists when you start a new game thus they end up signing the same players often. Ayew is problably on Wengers shortlist then.

Yes, but not every year. Anyways that's not my main point. My point was that game results often seem to handle more about reputation and morale than tactics and squad strength. Which explains why FM players see the same teams win year after years despite the AI completely botching squad management.

That's the way results are processed when on view only and maybe it's the same as when results are processed using the 'faster' processing.

Just a thought?

That's the way results are processed when on view only and maybe it's the same as when results are processed using the 'faster' processing.

Just a thought?

Well yes, but it also affects full detail games because lower rep teams will always take a defensive approach against higher rep teams and the way FM's ME works you're very likely to get beat playing cautiously. Human managers can design good defensive tactics and be successful that way but the AI tactics are very basic. As a result the higher rep teams that play a more expressive game are likely to be more successful than the lower rep teams that might have better players.

That's the way results are processed when on view only and maybe it's the same as when results are processed using the 'faster' processing.

Just a thought?

The relation between reputation and results is indirect. The AI decides its match strategy based on reputation (aka match odds), so an underdog will always try to defend heavily in order to not get beaten, and a favourite will always try to dominate. The best thing is to dominate, of course, so that is why the biggest clubs remain on top in FM.

Well yes' date=' but it also affects full detail games because lower rep teams will always take a defensive approach against higher rep teams and the way FM's ME works you're very likely to get beat playing cautiously. Human managers can design good defensive tactics and be successful that way but the AI tactics are very basic. As a result the higher rep teams that play a more expressive game are likely to be more successful than the lower rep teams that might have better players.[/quote']

The relation between reputation and results is indirect. The AI decides its match strategy based on reputation (aka match odds), so an underdog will always try to defend heavily in order to not get beaten, and a favourite will always try to dominate. The best thing is to dominate, of course, so that is why the biggest clubs remain on top in FM.

Oh yeah, I understand now.

Even ignoring how cheaply some star players moved in the OP's list [a hint of AI-to-AI transfers working in mysterious ways ) I'd say his examples don't mean much because:

1) we don't know how many of those players became important at their new club and how many just ended up being expensive benchwarmers

2a) we all know AI can spot players with high CA and PA

2b) original db players are generally well-rounded and, so to speak, easy to develop into superstars

The true issue with AI squad building is the AI managers don't buy/sell players according to a clear plan, so City buying Ganso isn't necessarily a sign of good squad building if his purchase isn't going to be balanced by someone else leaving or if he'll not fit in with the tactic or with the playing style.

Then we still have the problem of underdeveloped youngsters... Sure, turning Neymar into a monster doesn't take much skills... but things get difficult when AI spends 5M on a 17yo AMC with terrible personality and lazy playing style, just because AI can see his PA of 170...

AI purchases are heavily based on Reputation and CA/PA, not on specific tactical/technical needs or future plans. That's the reason as soon as all the "default" wonderkids have been bought and have peaked the AI will start to buy mediocre newgens who happen to have high rep/PA despite them having little chance to ever fulfill their potential

I'm sure its been confirmed that the AI cannot see a players PA.

They use the same thing that our scouts do.

I get the feeling that if the AI had really improved we'd be hearing a lot more about it.

I read in another post that it was still terrible and that as a human manager it was still easy to get all the best youth.

Yes, FMScout is like that

If people play the game like a manager would (ie use their scouts to find players), then it would be a more fun game.

If the human can use FMRTE, so does the AI Has been doing it since FM05.

Hazard 15 M? Di Maria 13.75M?

there's only 1 explanation for them to be sold so cheaply...THE AI WAS MANAGING BOTH TEAMS.

I totally agree with the OP, AI squad building has improved quite a bit in my opinion in the transfer area . I'm in the BPL in my second season as Liverpool IN 2013 and I won the BPL with them previously in the first season . What's amazing is Tottenham who placed 5th place in the first season has bought over just in a season and a half ( Because I am at January 2013) the following players : Cavani for 45 Million dollars , Gokhan Gonul, Junior Hoillet, Danny , Mauricio Isla , Mark Bresciano , Mauricio Isla and Alex Manniger . Arsenal have bought the likes of two players who you've listed : Cristian Ansaldi and Andre Ayew . I'm not too sure about Chelsea and Man City but currently Manchester United are strongly interested in Hazard but they've so far bought a few players such as : Axel Witsel , Diego Perotti and a few other wonderkids .

He's not that good is he?

Yet, in those transfers hardly any English players?

Just like real life then