Athletic Bilbao: Basque Players Only

After spending 4 hours setting up my new game as Athletic Bilbao and hiring international scouts overseas, I find out that this team only allows the hiring of players of Basque nationality. What a blow! Is this true in real life?... Do you guys know of any other teams with such tight restrictions?...

Yeah, they have that policy in real life. Although I read recently that they've relaxed it a very tiny bit, with a couple of players from areas bordering the Basque region joining the club. Real Sociedad used to do the same thing, but gave it up back in 1989.

I'm not aware of any other clubs that do it - I think it tends to be clubs from regions that are known to be fiercly proud of their roots, such as the Basques.

IIRC Chivas from Guadalajara (Mexico) are only allowed to sign Mexican players.

lol that sucks, yes it is true IRL. To the Basque People, the club is a symbol of Basque Identity. In fact , 76% of Athletic fans would rather see the club relegated than give up the cantera(having only basque players) policy.

Even though it borders on racism, I truly admire Bilbao for all the success they have had despite having a very small population to draw players from(2.5-4 Mil)

If i remember rightly when i played as Bilbao, the policy doesn't apply to Spanish youngsters under 18, so you can sign as many Spanish youngsters aged 15/16/17/18 as you like. I might be wrong, but i do remember signing some Spanish youngsters with no Basque nationality or from Basque clubs.

FIFA should ban clubs from placing race/nationality restrictions on players.

FIFA should ban clubs from placing race/nationality restrictions on players.

That's a bit of a daft suggestion and partly goes against what FIFA and UEFA are championing; pushing through home-grown kids to the first team instead of erroding the national or regional identity of the club by signing foreigners.

To the Basque's, their policy of "choosing" to sign/develop those from the region is much like an English club trying to maintain an English core of players, which is something that is actually lacking in our game. If an English club came out and said "we're going to try and build an English core", they'd be applauded, as Bilbao rightly should.

i think the basques have a great idea in only allowing basques to play for the club, gives the basques a sense of identity through football like barcelona did and still does for catalunya (i watched a 'king of clubs' show on barcelona and they explained it better). Even if it is technically 'racist' i dont think anyone would complain about it, non-basques wouldnt understand the importance of the club. Plus if fifa bring in rules to stop 'racism' in this sense then they will go about their buisness in a unofficial manner much like rangers did

Even though it borders on racism

No, it does not.

FIFA should ban clubs from placing race/nationality restrictions on players.

Nope, they should stimulate it.

How would banning Basque-only players be implemented anyway? Never in the history of football has any Authority tried to force a club to play X number of Foreigners, it's almost entirely the opposite, limiting the amount of foreigners to protect the National pool of players and allow them game time and development.

Nationality restrictions are common in any profession, and the Basque case is no different. (Who can be/come Basque, Irish or German is a very interesting discussion - but it is not in the scope of this game forum...).

I just wished to know in advance that I'd not be able to hire foreign players. A more flexible approach would be to allow the team to hire a couple of foreign players, as it was the case of European soccer about 20 years ago!!... So you see how things change...

The current policy at Bilbao is that the club can buy Basque players (from either side of the border, hence Lizarazu playing there before Bayern), or foreign players who have Basque ancestry, i.e. South Americans whose ancestors were Basques.

Sociedad ended their policy to buy John Aldridge.

phd angel the current rules about Irish nationality are, be born in Ireland of at least one Irish national, be born in foreign country of Irish national, have Irish grandparent (even if they aren't really a grandparent c.f. Cascarino), be adopted by Irish national (I have an American-Filipino cousin{by adoption} who's used this route), or be a rich Arab, Russian, etc. whos willing to give money to Fianna Fáil.

Read about Darron Gibson's being born in Northern Ireland but choosing to play with the Republic of Ireland. What's the official stand IRL? Does having Northern Irish or Irish nationality qualify a player to represent either one?

Its a tough one, i believe, i understand clubs (even nations) wanting to protect their own, and to promote growth from within... but, where do you draw the line? where does it stop being "promoting our own" and "growing from within" and become "discrimination against foreign players".. its not racism, far from it, that term is too loosely applied

There should be a distinction between club football and international football. Leave the nationality rules to international football.

What a blow! Is this true in real life?

Of course it's true in real life, why on earth would they put it in the game if it wasn't?

A bit of common sense wouldn't go astray!

Read about Darron Gibson's being born in Northern Ireland but choosing to play with the Republic of Ireland. What's the official stand IRL? Does having Northern Irish or Irish nationality qualify a player to represent either one?

Surely you could have just Googled it? You would have found something like this;

Gibson was at the centre of a dispute between the Irish Football Association and the Football Association of Ireland over the eligibility of players born within Northern Ireland to represent the Republic of Ireland. Normally, players not born within the territory of the Association they wish to represent must demonstrate to FIFA that they have a valid "connection" (ancestry or residence) with that territory. However, the unique constitutional position of Northern Ireland, as specified in the Good Friday Agreement whereby Irish citizenship is the "birthright" of every person born on the island of Ireland if they so wish, meant that Gibson was eligible to play for the Republic of Ireland at international level. As a result, Gibson was approached to represent both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland at international level.

Amzing what you can find when you look!

Yeah, they have that policy in real life. Although I read recently that they've relaxed it a very tiny bit, with a couple of players from areas bordering the Basque region joining the club. Real Sociedad used to do the same thing, but gave it up back in 1989.

Sociedad ended their policy [of only signing Basque players] to buy John Aldridge.

You are both right in a way. Real Sociedad still only sign Spaniards who are from the Basque rejion, and the only non-Basque Spaniard to play for them was Sergio Boris Gonzalez between 2002 and 2006. But they do buy foreigners, and as you say, the first was John Aldridge in 1989.

It's not 'discrimination against foreign players' if you do not sign them at all, it's simply club policy. There is no law that forces a football club to sign the best players they should be able buy.

There should be a distinction between club football and international football. Leave the nationality rules to international football.

The Basques would argue they are a nation. That opens up a whole new debate much to complex for General Discussion

Does anyone know of any way to recreate this in the editor? I'm in the middle of creating a USSR database, with USSR (before the split) league system, but I want to add a little spice (for FMS) and have the squads limited in the foreigners they can buy.

lol that sucks, yes it is true IRL. To the Basque People, the club is a symbol of Basque Identity. In fact , 76% of Athletic fans would rather see the club relegated than give up the cantera(having only basque players) policy.

Even though it borders on racism, I truly admire Bilbao for all the success they have had despite having a very small population to draw players from(2.5-4 Mil)

"Cantera" is their (and every other club in the world, using their own term) youth academy, the policy is that they're going to use their youth players, it's not the policy to use Basque-only players, they just happen to be all Basque as a result of their other policy.

It borders racism/discrimination, but people usually relate to their cause and don't take offense, as Athletic have no intentions of hurting anyone's feelings.

Fun fact, despite this limitation, Athletic are the one of the three clubs to have never been relegated from the Spanish First Division, ever. (Guess the other two...)

No, it does not.

Racism is discrimination based on race and this is exactly what Athletic Bilbao are doing.

If Athletic Bilbao were in the UK no doubt the PC-media will come down on Athletic Bilbao after some kid is rejected as he's not Basque - this is racism.

One of the reasons why it's probably not frowned upon in this case as it is to their disadvantage, having to draw on a tiny population rather than the outside world beyond Basques.

@vrisk85

They bought javi martinez from osasuna so not all players have to be from the cantera but since he is basque, he is eligible

Racism is discrimination based on race and this is exactly what Athletic Bilbao are doing.

No. I wouldn't say they are discriminating any nationality. As rinso said earlier, they are only promoting their local people and I see nothing wrong with that. If they would sign all other nationalities but refused to sign Italians for example THAT would be discrimination.

No. I wouldn't say they are discriminating any nationality. As rinso said earlier, they are only promoting their local people and I see nothing wrong with that. If they would sign all other nationalities but refused to sign Italians for example THAT would be discrimination.

So if an Italian kid asks to join Athletic Bilbao, would he be accepted for a trial?

If no, surely this is racism.

They are discriminating against every other nationality, not just one.

It's racism but not racial hatred, which is why it can be somewhat tolerated. But it's still racism.

It's racism but not racial hatred, which is why it can be somewhat tolerated. But it's still racism.

I'd classify it as Nationalism actually, though I dare say there's as much traditionalism in there as anything else. Racism and the whole race argument is a big strong, is it not?

I'd classify it as Nationalism actually, though I dare say there's as much traditionalism in there as anything else. Racism and the whole race argument is a big strong, is it not?

Basques may consider themselves to have a very distinguishable culture, language, history and so on which is a lot like a social construct, or ethnic group or race.

Basque nationalism is a whole different kettle of fish, as the establishment of an independent state has other connotations aside from the cultural aspects of Basques.

I don't see how the race argument is a strong one since there is no racial hatred in this case. Racism is not just limited to skin colour or language.

It's racism but not racial hatred, which is why it can be somewhat tolerated. But it's still racism.

It isn't racist.

How can it be racism if any kid from any race(black/white/asian etc) can play for them as long as they were born in the region?

Basques may consider themselves to have a very distinguishable culture, language, history and so on which is a lot like a social construct, or ethnic group or race.

Basque nationalism is a whole different kettle of fish, as the establishment of an independent state has other connotations aside from the cultural aspects of Basques.

I don't see how the race argument is a strong one since there is no racial hatred in this case. Racism is not just limited to skin colour or language.

No-one's disagreeing with you on that front, but you're talking about the Basque people, not Bilbao and my point was that the clubs selection policy, imo, is built as much on nationalism and traditionalism as much as anything else. You're labelling Atletico Bilbao based on the Basque separatist ideal and one rule regards home grown players, which hardly seems fair.

In the early 90's there was a 3 foreigner rule in European competition, was that racist? Or should we only judge Bilbao's selection policy because Eta exist?

Again, hardly seems fair.

Athletic Club, as they call themselves, only sign Basque players to retain their identity and their culture.

The Basque region in spain has its own language, culture and history and they want to keep it that way. They tend to adopt an approach of bringing through youngsters rather than signing 'foreigners'. Anyone who cannot grasp their language is classed as a foreigner...

As one of their playes once said about home grown Basuqe players, "they identify more with the club than other players; we’re not mercenaries who join one team one year and another the next”.....

It can't be described as racist, it's just their ideology. Barcelona want to play 'total football' al la Cruyff. Athletic Club want to bring through youngsters who are Basque and will represent their culture and way of life.

So if an Italian kid asks to join Athletic Bilbao, would he be accepted for a trial?

If no, surely this is racism.

They are discriminating against every other nationality, not just one.

It's racism but not racial hatred, which is why it can be somewhat tolerated. But it's still racism.

your an arse!

Bilbao only using Basque players is one of the greatest things in football (along with Barca not selling sponsorship on the shirt) and they are one of the most successful teams to have played in the Spanish league. calling the whole process that's served them so well 'racism' just because your an arse stinks.

you properly think im racist 'cos I haven't got any black children.

It is club policy, not racism. It's about club identity.

Take for example, Arsenal. They sign players of many different nationalities. Aston Villa on the other hand, clearly prefers British players as they probably feel they can build team spirit and club identity their own way. Yet who gets more stick in the press? Which club can be considered more 'racist'? Can the press be considered 'racist' this way?

Like Elrithral said, it is more of nationalism, of trying to build an identity. It should be clearly separated from racism, where different ethnicity comes into play.

They have loosened their policy in recent years anyway.

They used to say that only Basque BORN players were allowed to play for them, now they are more flexible and say if you have had acquired your football training in the Basque region you are allowed to play for Athletic Club, regardless of your place of birth.

That's not racist in anyway, I wish more clubs would do it in England rather than buying second rate foreigners.

your an arse!

Bilbao only using Basque players is one of the greatest things in football (along with Barca not selling sponsorship on the shirt) and they are one of the most successful teams to have played in the Spanish league. calling the whole process that's served them so well 'racism' just because your an arse stinks.

you properly think im racist 'cos I haven't got any black children.

I'm not criticising Athletic Bilbao for their policy. I'm just saying that it is racist to some degree. It clearly puts them at a disadvantage - if the newest Lionel Messi was Italian and asked to join Athletic Bilbao, they'd reject him, for example.

Racism is beyond "black" and "white".

The Barcelona comparison with Cruyff is different - here, Barcelona will reject players who cannot play in the Barcelona philosophy which has nothing to do with race.

If it's not racist it is at least discriminatory against things other than ability.

its just like the guy from FIFA only wanting 5 (or 6) foreign players in a team.

there needs to be limits.

its just like the guy from FIFA only wanting 5 (or 6) foreign players in a team.

there needs to be limits.

The Barcelona comparison is not different. That is their philosophy, they choose to play total football no matter what.

Athletic's philosophy is to play with Basque players no matter what, they would rather be relegated than play with foreigners. Barca won't give up their playing style, can't see them being relegated by using it but its still the same.

Just because they are different doesn't mean they aren't the same thing: a clubs philosophy.

BTW I agree with you when you say it is racism, of course it is, but as you say, it is their choice. I think as soon as you mention racism though everyone jumps on the 'pc' bandwagon.....

BTW I agree with you when you say it is racism, of course it is, but as you say, it is their choice. I think as soon as you mention racism though everyone jumps on the 'pc' bandwagon.....

It's really what I'm trying to get at.

The moment you sway away from turning down players due to anything other than ability/attitude/any sort of playing trait, you veer into discriminatory territory.

The moment you sway away from turning down players due to anything other than ability/attitude/any sort of playing trait, you veer into discriminatory territory.

Discrimination isn't necessarily negative though, positive discrimination

It's not racism, that's my opinion and just as people jump on the PC bandwagon, others are all too ready to jump on the race bandwagon.

Exactly, racism isn't only directed at black, white or asian people lol...

You're not Basque are you? You have an X in your name on here!

I'm not criticising Athletic Bilbao for their policy. I'm just saying that it is racist to some degree. It clearly puts them at a disadvantage - if the newest Lionel Messi was Italian and asked to join Athletic Bilbao, they'd reject him, for example.

Racism is beyond "black" and "white".

The Barcelona comparison with Cruyff is different - here, Barcelona will reject players who cannot play in the Barcelona philosophy which has nothing to do with race.

If it's not racist it is at least discriminatory against things other than ability.

instead of guessing, why dont you look up what racism means

The moment you sway away from turning down players due to anything other than ability/attitude/any sort of playing trait, you veer into discriminatory territory.

Not when it is an open boundary to entry.

Athletic Bilbao will sign anyone that has acquired their youth football training in the Basque region. That provides no barrier to entry as any male in the world can do that. All you have to do is move there at a young age.

Thus it isn't racist nor discriminatory as anyone can play for them in theory.

As the daily telegraph puts it:

"Some might argue that Athletic’s Basque-only policy is a form of racism in itself? After 24 years without a Liga title, could it be time for a change on that front too?"

We could be here all day!

As the daily telegraph puts it:

"Some might argue that Athletic’s Basque-only policy is a form of racism in itself? After 24 years without a Liga title, could it be time for a change on that front too?"

We could be here all day!

some might say your an arse too

IIRC Chivas from Guadalajara (Mexico) are only allowed to sign Mexican players.

It is Mexican borned players only. In the past the club have found out that a couple of players were US born and they were sold.

They have loosened their policy in recent years anyway.

They used to say that only Basque BORN players were allowed to play for them, now they are more flexible and say if you have had acquired your football training in the Basque region you are allowed to play for Athletic Club, regardless of your place of birth.

That's not racist in anyway, I wish more clubs would do it in England rather than buying second rate foreigners.

They don't say that if you had your football training in the Basque region your allowed to play for them, the new policy is that if you is a non-Basque player that have been apart of the Athletic academy then you're allowed to play for them.

If i remember rightly when i played as Bilbao, the policy doesn't apply to Spanish youngsters under 18, so you can sign as many Spanish youngsters aged 15/16/17/18 as you like. I might be wrong, but i do remember signing some Spanish youngsters with no Basque nationality or from Basque clubs.

That is because they allow Non-Basque players to play for them if trained in their academy.

To quote a magazine:

"Admittedly in recent times the interpretation of Basque-ness has been made more flexible. Now anyone who has acquired his football training in the Basque country can play for Bilbao, irrespective of his country of birth. Which gave license to Bilbao to sign the Brazilian born Patxi Ferreira and to try and convince players from other canteras of Basque clubs to join them. Which allowed former coach Luis Fernandez to lead Bilbao to second in the league in the late 1990s."

So no, not just players who have been through their youth academy.

some might say your an arse too

Can't say I want a discussion with someone who posts comments like:

"you properly think im racist 'cos I haven't got any black children." - deary me, someone have a word.

That ignore button is great!

That was not a good example... Patxi Ferreira is one example that makes people to believe that it is all about a player having been trained in the Basque area. patxi Ferreira moved to the Basque area in so young age that they decided to consider him as a Basque player. He had lived in Basque for 10+ years when they signed him. Athletic policy is still that they only allow Basque players or non-Basque players trained in their own Academy to play for them. Patxi Ferreira is just one of very few exceptions as his time living in Basque made them consider him as Basque. You won't find to many other examples..

Talk about contradicting yourself, LMAO, so the fact I have come up with an example which proves my point is not a very good example?

They don't make 'exceptions' as you put it. Apart from one time, the player was Bixente Lizarazu. The fact they signed the Brazilian isn't an 'exception to rule', it's how they operate now.

I'm not arguing with you, I can't be bothered to, you have your idea's, I'll have mine. I'm not bothered if you believe me or not, in fact I couldn't care less so I think we can leave this there.

some might say your an arse too

No need to call people arses. That's twice in this thread now.

Athletic Bilbao will sign anyone that has acquired their youth football training in the Basque region. That provides no barrier to entry as any male in the world can do that. All you have to do is move there at a young age.

Thus it isn't racist nor discriminatory as anyone can play for them in theory.

I think Matthew Le God sums it up best here. Actual discrimination based on nationality is illegal in the EU, and one of the lesser-known (at least compared to the contract bit) aspects of the Bosman ruling was that (I quote from Wikipedia):

The case banned restrictions of foreign EU members within the national leagues [...]

The Bosman ruling also prohibited domestic football leagues in EU member states, and also UEFA, from imposing quotas on foreign players to the extent that they discriminated against nationals of EU states. At that time, many leagues placed quotas restricting the number of non-nationals allowed on member teams. Also, UEFA had a rule that prohibited teams in its competitions, namely the Champions League, Cup Winners' Cup and UEFA Cup, from naming more than three "foreign" players in their matchday squads. After the ruling, quotas could still be imposed, but could only be used to restrict the number of non-EU players on each team.

In other words, as MLG stated, they are not discriminating against people based on their nationality, so they are not violating EU law here. If they were doing anything illegal, the EU would be all over it.

some might say your an arse too

Cut out the abuse now please.