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dane0

*Results from the Football Manager 2008 survey*

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Here are links to the results from the survey!

[url="http://rapidshare.com/files/79856752/Football_Manager_Survey_2008.pdf.html"]PDF-version[/url]

[url="http://s251.photobucket.com/albums/gg281/daneo/?action=view¤t=FootballManagerSurvey2008001.jpg"]JPEG versions from Photobucket. Link leads to first picture in a "slide-show" form. [/url]

The PDF file is of course good for saving the survey results to your hard drive, while the pictures on photobucket are good if you want a quick look and also if you want a link to include a specific "slide" in one of your posts for discussion.

If you want any additional details like for example filtering results by a single answer (I for example just ran a test on when the people who say they won't be buying FM2009 started playing the game) post in here and I'll try to post the stats. I'll be going away for a few hours now, but I'll have a look when I return home.

Enjoy! [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

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Here are links to the results from the survey!

[url="http://rapidshare.com/files/79856752/Football_Manager_Survey_2008.pdf.html"]PDF-version[/url]

[url="http://s251.photobucket.com/albums/gg281/daneo/?action=view¤t=FootballManagerSurvey2008001.jpg"]JPEG versions from Photobucket. Link leads to first picture in a "slide-show" form. [/url]

The PDF file is of course good for saving the survey results to your hard drive, while the pictures on photobucket are good if you want a quick look and also if you want a link to include a specific "slide" in one of your posts for discussion.

If you want any additional details like for example filtering results by a single answer (I for example just ran a test on when the people who say they won't be buying FM2009 started playing the game) post in here and I'll try to post the stats. I'll be going away for a few hours now, but I'll have a look when I return home.

Enjoy! [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

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Hilarious how many people took the effort to say they had no opinion at all lol.

Surprised that the Media Interaction is by far the most vilified aspect, yet the Match Engine was voted most in need of improvement.

Incredibly surprised at the amount of people who think the International Management bits are good. Wow. Unbelievable.

But, and this is the key, the proof of why FM08 was such a 0.000001 incremental update on 07 is proven by the volume of negative responsed yet nearly everyone will buy the next one.

When you're #1, why try harder? (to paraphrase the Fatboy Slim cover)

VB

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Yeah I seriously question a survey that asks a specific question then gives you the option of offering no opinion.

Its like saying, 'which is better: Left or Right?' and then adding a box for 'indecisive, desperate not to offend, low self esteem: dunno'.

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As an analyse:
_we can see that a patch is better than no patch.
_Also there hasn't been a big improve from 077 to 08.
_ most people don't care about the skin (that's a good thing because there are more important elements)
_ FM keeps standing ahead when it comes to database acuurate
_ people are dissapointed with media option
_ regen system could better but id not bad
_ People (40%) are clearly wanting an update for the match engine
_ no difficulty methods nor 3D

Nice work BTW [img]http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif[/img]

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by eXistenZ:
As an analyse:
_we can see that a patch is better than no patch.
_Also there hasn't been a big improve from 077 to 08.
_ most people don't care about the skin (that's a good thing because there are more important elements)
_ FM keeps standing ahead when it comes to database acuurate
_ people are dissapointed with media option
_ regen system could better but id not bad
_ People (40%) are clearly wanting an update for the match engine
_ no difficulty methods nor 3D

Nice work BTW [img]http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif[/img] </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you!


I think this a rather good summation of some of the most important points to take from this. Some of my own points:

* I was surprised that almost a third thought that FM2007 was better than FM2008.

* I thought it interesting that while only app. 28% were dissatisfied with the amount of features announced, 45% were dissatisfied with the general progress achieved. This might have something to do with the fact that 2/3 of people felt that bugs were ranging from "unacceptable" to "a bit of a problem".

* A large number of people found that the improved financial side of things had contributed the most to their enjoyment of the game from the list of new features.

* A LOT of people are disapproving of media and player interaction.

* The match engine is a very divisive issue. Apart from media/player interaction, it has the largest number of "Very poor" answers, but a great many people are also positive about it.

* It looks a bad sign for SI that only 11-12% are interested in FM Live on here.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gubbs:
That's life ..

You are always going to find the vast majority of everyone to be witless, unimaginative, under educated, judgemental, shallow, incompetent, opinionated, unqualfied monkeys.

Asking them what they think is pointless; largely why nobody lends any credence whatsoever to quantitative opinion polls and/or democratic elections.

The survey is only useful if it is targeted and broken down into exhaustive categories or applicant. Starting with age, experience, qualfications etc.

Even then you will only ever find people respond how their particular class dictates.

All human opinion is meaningless when put the the test - if it weren't we wouldn't have poverty, dying ecosystems and 250 million fat ignorant Americans dicating world policy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lol, I wouldn't dare to be that frank, but sadly you've got the point there.

dane0, I don't think he doesn't get this survey stuff and it doesn't make your efforts any less valuable. There will be smarter and less smarter, black and white, big and small people to state their opinnions but it has nothing to do with the poll. I bet the big majority is only happy for these things to be created and grateful to people who try to help.

You surely understand yourself too that how "official" your survey can be as you have stated many times earlier, and I only hope that everybody else too can take it as it is. Some have the brain, some don't. But everybody could and should still try to learn from it. Thank you for making it happen [img]http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif[/img].

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[B]dane0.[/B] I was a little critical of the survey itslef and the way that some of the qustions were worded and also the options, (or rather lack thereof), in some of the answers.

I must say though that I one again comment you on actually having the ability to cpompile and eun the survey, (rather than just discuss doing one as I did).

Furthermore, the presentation of your results is exceptional [img]http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif[/img].

In terms of the results themselves, I must say I am pleasantly surprised. The results accross the board were significantly better than I had expected, (with the exception of the "interaction" module), in both the "unpatched version", the patched version, and even the individual modules.

As a regular poster on these forums, (and a pretty avid reader of many many many posts that probably slip by without too much notice by others, it's possible that my expectation had been heightened by some of the excellent threads that I have read over the last 2 or so years, that gave ideas to improve upon what I already thought was a pretty exceptional game.

Maybe that was a little naive on my part. I suppose I look at a subjecy being discussed in great detail and just assume that SI will incorporate it into one of the next couple of issues, (as I know just about diddlysquat about programming).

Anyway, I'm getting off the subject/

Good survey.
Flippin excellent presentation of compiled data [img]http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif[/img].
Positive set of results overall I think too.

Well done dane0[img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img][img]http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif[/img].

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jopo12:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by muncherdave:
of course, but at the same time this has been the best football simulation for years so you can really only assume it will be the best next year as well until more details about the game and others are released. it wouldnt really be buying blindly after the great history of fm/cm. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I can't think of CM 01/02 and FM 2008 as the same series, what they actually aren't. History is great, but who should care about things in the past when they suck now? FM is going lower down in quality with each release. Features are added but playability and functionality are decreasing alarmingly. I wouldn't buy a new FM just because I liked CM 01/02 or even FM 2006. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thats fine that you think that, because once you become disgruntled with something like this you are always going to be more cautious about any future incarnations. but my point is you aren't going into this blindly as you have the previous versions to look back on and some sort of sense on where things might be going.

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I think some people are confused with the definition of [B]"Board Confidence"[/B] because that's the second most flawed aspect of this game.

People do seem to complain about it A LOT in the forums too.

I think the opinion of this was shown in [B]"Media Interaction"[/B] because people probably thought Confidence was the same as Interaction. As you can see many people didn't like the Media Interaction.

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Good work dane0!

I'm glad to see others are saying the interaction between yourself and the game (players/board) is an area that needs improving.

How many people took the survey? Did I miss that bit?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by breaker:
How many people took the survey? Did I miss that bit? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can see how many people took the survey in the box in the upper right corner. 530 started it and from those 477 completed it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It'll be interesting to see if the people at SI who seemed at pains to ward us off of reading too much into the results of this survey are now patting themselves on the back following the surprisingly positive results.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, first of all, I found it a bit funny talking to Miles about limiting overtly negative responses, when I already at that point knew that they would be rather positive instead.

As for patting themselves on the back, well, why shouldn't they? Don't get me wrong, personally I do not feel that FM2008 was perfect and I was quite surprised to find so many bugs, when you consider the small amount of new features added. However, what SI CAN pat themselves on the back for, is still having the best manager game out there, despite the industry's big guns (Eidos and EA Sports aren't exactly minnows) chasing their market share.

Yes sure, there are kinks in the different features of the game, and as the results of the survey shows some of them is in dire need of reprogramming (interaction, perhaps training and the match engine) however, the fact that we can sit down with the game and point out the features that are working well and those who aren't working well is actually impressive.

Look at Championship Manager and what Eidos have been able to do after 3 years of hard work trying to make a managing game. Is Championship Manager 2008 on level with Football Manager 2008?

Is it on level with Football Manager 2006 or 2005?

Is it even on level with Championship Manager 03/04?

No, not really in my opinion.


So therefore, yes, I do believe SI can sit back and pat themselves on the back for creating a game that is leaps and bounds in front of every other manager game out there. Once they've patted themselves on the back for that it's time to get to work on perfecting their game. The survey is good for showing what we here on the forums think should be done to perfect the game and as SI have been very good at using the forums for interaction with their fans I actually think this survey will be useful for the continued discussion here.

Think about it this way, when the results for this survey were made available in this thread everyone were surprised at how positive the results were. Now consider how SI must feel if they're trying to use the forums for feedback on the game. For all they'd know it was the worst manager game ever published, when quite frankly it is not. This survey was actually solely meant to be a way for the discussion in the forums to move forward and I hope it can.

Right now we have people singling out almost every bit and part of the game and deeming them to be of unacceptable quality, when in reality I guess most things in the game could do with minor adjustments and tweaks (although judging by the results media and player interaction aren't one of them). So therefore use this to gauge the general opinion. If you're the only one feeling that the database is a heap of junk, maybe you might be the one who is wrong etc.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">That's life ..

You are always going to find the vast majority of everyone to be witless, unimaginative, under educated, judgemental, shallow, incompetent, opinionated, unqualfied monkeys.

Asking them what they think is pointless; largely why nobody lends any credence whatsoever to quantitative opinion polls and/or democratic elections.

The survey is only useful if it is targeted and broken down into exhaustive categories or applicant. Starting with age, experience, qualfications etc.

Even then you will only ever find people respond how their particular class dictates.

All human opinion is meaningless when put the the test - if it weren't we wouldn't have poverty, dying ecosystems and 250 million fat ignorant Americans dicating world policy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Idiot.
It's so ironic that you cannot spell: judgmental, unqualified and dictating.

You should be a tory candidate matey.



Great post. Interesting results.

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Thankyou for your hard work on the survey [B]Dane0[/B] and [B]SI[/B] should have a good look at the survey and it may give them an idea on how a small percentage feels about the game at the moment and it may influence them on future projects to be included in the game. The main problem being the match engine and i see a massive percentage feel the same way so i hope SI tweak this for their 2009 release then this game would be that little bit more perfect.

Once again Dane0......cheers bud.

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Good survey, well done. Couldn't believe all the positive results, because whilst reading the fotrum's it seems that others are saying lots of negative feedback.

Well done though, good to see some general results of what people really think of the game [img]http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif[/img]

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A pity there isn't an FM07 survey to compare these results to (or if there is i haven't found it), might give the results a bit more meaning?

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I'm suprised just how well the transfer system comes out in the survey. IMO, it's the worst part of the game, and theres a large thread expressing the nagativity towards it, yet it still seems that most people are pleased with it.

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Kudos for having the time and dedication to produce such a survey, however I'm not entirely convinced about the quality of your sample source.

The first clue is in your sample results in the very first results slide:
FM08.01: 76.8%

I'd place [B]a lot[/B] of money thats not representative of the population.
I know 4 others that play FM, none of which had ever patched any version.

What I am essentially getting at, is that none of the data is representative of the general publics perceptions of the game.
If your attempting to show the views of the 'hardcore' niche of FM fans then fair do's.

Well done, however I don't think your results are entirely credible.

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Just another bump as not everyone might having seen it over the holiday period [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">250 million fat ignorant Americans dicating world policy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you'll find it only takes 1 fat ignorant American to dictate world policy.

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