FM20: Liverpool - Champions of Europe

[diddydaddydoddy]

4 minutes ago, Siven said:

Once again several Liverpool coaches have two jobs, which lowers their 5 star coaching rating.

So make sure to offer them new contracts with only 1 job to get their full coach rating back.

 

Alex Inglethorpe

David Rydings

Andreas Kornmayer

Peter Krawietz

Paul Squires

Jack Ade

Tim Jenkins

Seems to be all the staff members with 2 jobs. 

Unfortunately the two roles is accurate in real life

[Siven]

1 minute ago, diddydaddydoddy said:

Unfortunately the two roles is accurate in real life

Yeah, i figured they were.

Just annoying to have to offer them all new contracts to get their full coaching benefit.

[diddydaddydoddy]

1 minute ago, Siven said:

Yeah, i figured they were.

Just annoying to have to offer them all new contracts to get their full coaching benefit.

I'm questioning why you should have to do that. Inglethorpe is one of the best HoYD and he also coaches (at an ok level) players as well, but his (in effect part-time) coaching shouldn't have to be at the detriment to his HoYD role IMO. What's peoples thoughts?

[Siven]

20 minutes ago, diddydaddydoddy said:

I'm questioning why you should have to do that. Inglethorpe is one of the best HoYD and he also coaches (at an ok level) players as well, but his (in effect part-time) coaching shouldn't have to be at the detriment to his HoYD role IMO. What's peoples thoughts?

In game Inglethorpe has the HOYD and U18 coach jobs. The u18 coach job is actually redundant as the HOYD role coaches the U18 anyway, and having that secondary job lowers his coach rating to 3 out of 5 when selecting a coaching assignment (ball control for example), whereas it would be 4 out of 5 if he only had the HOYD job.

Kornmayer has 3.5 stars as fitness coach with 2 jobs, or 4.5 stars with just being fitness coach is another example. 

Krawietz 3 star with 2 jobs, 4 star with 1 coaching job.

Same thing with the others, in real life they may have these secondary jobs, but in game its lowers their coach rating when giving them assignments, and for me getting 4 and 5 star coaches is a big thing as i like developing youth. So secondary jobs is a no go for me.

Maybe its just me, i like to get the most out of my staff. I just find it annoying i have to get them on new contracts at the start of the game

Edited November 12, 2020 by Siven

[diddydaddydoddy]

5 minutes ago, Siven said:

In game Inglethorpe has the HOYD and U18 coach jobs. The u18 coach job is actually redundant as the HOYD role coaches the U18 anyway, and having that secondary job lowers his coach rating to 3 out of 5 when selecting a coaching assignment (ball control for example), whereas it would be 4 out of 5 if he only had the HOYD job.

Kornmayer has 3.5 stars as fitness coach with 2 jobs, or 4.5 stars with just being fitness coach is another example. 

Krawietz 3 star with 2 jobs, 4 star with 1 coaching job.

Same thing with the others, in real life they may have these secondary jobs, but in game its lowers their coach rating when giving them assignments, and for me getting 4 and 5 star coaches is a big thing as i like developing youth. So secondary jobs is a no go for me.

Maybe its just me, i like to get the most out of my staff. I just find it annoying i have to get them on new contracts at the start of the game

You get I'm agreeing with you? Too much to say its a bug but doesn't feel right two jobs should necessary lower their coaching rating. I'll explore this with SI

[Tullekunstner]

1 hour ago, Siven said:

In game Inglethorpe has the HOYD and U18 coach jobs. The u18 coach job is actually redundant as the HOYD role coaches the U18 anyway, and having that secondary job lowers his coach rating to 3 out of 5 when selecting a coaching assignment (ball control for example), whereas it would be 4 out of 5 if he only had the HOYD job.

Kornmayer has 3.5 stars as fitness coach with 2 jobs, or 4.5 stars with just being fitness coach is another example. 

Krawietz 3 star with 2 jobs, 4 star with 1 coaching job.

Same thing with the others, in real life they may have these secondary jobs, but in game its lowers their coach rating when giving them assignments, and for me getting 4 and 5 star coaches is a big thing as i like developing youth. So secondary jobs is a no go for me.

Maybe its just me, i like to get the most out of my staff. I just find it annoying i have to get them on new contracts at the start of the game

Once the editor comes out, you can fix it in there and save it so you won't have to do it more than once.

[EnigMattic1]

On 11/11/2020 at 16:35, Staf9 said:

See the ball boy is in the game 😎

[paddypower]

7 hours ago, Siven said:

In game Inglethorpe has the HOYD and U18 coach jobs. The u18 coach job is actually redundant as the HOYD role coaches the U18 anyway, and having that secondary job lowers his coach rating to 3 out of 5 when selecting a coaching assignment (ball control for example), whereas it would be 4 out of 5 if he only had the HOYD job.

Kornmayer has 3.5 stars as fitness coach with 2 jobs, or 4.5 stars with just being fitness coach is another example. 

Krawietz 3 star with 2 jobs, 4 star with 1 coaching job.

Same thing with the others, in real life they may have these secondary jobs, but in game its lowers their coach rating when giving them assignments, and for me getting 4 and 5 star coaches is a big thing as i like developing youth. So secondary jobs is a no go for me.

Maybe its just me, i like to get the most out of my staff. I just find it annoying i have to get them on new contracts at the start of the game

I signed a new HOYD which terminated Inglethorpes contract. But unlike previous games instead of leaving, he stayed on in the u18 coach role which was great.

[paddypower]

I sold Origi for 26m rising to 38m, and Adrian for 3m. Leaving me 9m short to activate Haaland's release clause. I asked the board to do the signing a few days before the window closed and they got him, and even got him to agree a pay cut! Dortmund had to pay him off. He was on 140k a week there and signed for me on 120k.

[paddypower]

@diddydaddydoddy I seen you were interested in the goalscoring form of our attackers. I'm not having any issues with them so far playing a 4231 with Firmino in the hole as an AP:

[Siven]

On 12/11/2020 at 14:37, diddydaddydoddy said:

You get I'm agreeing with you? Too much to say its a bug but doesn't feel right two jobs should necessary lower their coaching rating. I'll explore this with SI

I think its been like this for a few years, it kinda makes sense that their 2nd job takes time away from training, just annoying

[Siven]

17 hours ago, paddypower said:

I signed a new HOYD which terminated Inglethorpes contract. But unlike previous games instead of leaving, he stayed on in the u18 coach role which was great.

Ooh thats interesting.

Did you happen to notice if the new HOYD shows up as a coach in the senior training? As i got Inglethorpe a new contract just as HOYD and he didnt show up as a senior coach anymore, whereas he did in previous versions. 

I posted it as possible bug in the bug forums.

[paddypower]

1 hour ago, Siven said:

Ooh thats interesting.

Did you happen to notice if the new HOYD shows up as a coach in the senior training? As i got Inglethorpe a new contract just as HOYD and he didnt show up as a senior coach anymore, whereas he did in previous versions. 

I posted it as possible bug in the bug forums.

The new HOYD does not show up as a coach in the senior training, or the u23 training. He's is in the u18 training though.

[Fritz13]

On 12/11/2020 at 22:08, paddypower said:

I signed a new HOYD which terminated Inglethorpes contract. But unlike previous games instead of leaving, he stayed on in the u18 coach role which was great.

Who did you go for as your new HOYD?

[anorthernboy]

First friendly Mane out 5-6 weeks Salah out 2-3 weeks.

[EnigMattic1]

10 hours ago, anorthernboy said:

First friendly Mane out 5-6 weeks Salah out 2-3 weeks.

As opposed to real life where we have no VVD, no Gomez and Salah contracting Corona on international duty. 

Unless you play either of them up top, it could be manageable using Shaq, Jota, Origi and Jones. 

[RLC]

Who do you use as CD next to VVD, Gomez or Matip? I usually use Matip as my first choice next to VVD because his mental attributes are better and he’s been more reliable in my saves. 

[diddydaddydoddy]

Out of interest gents, when trying to get realistic performances, what position/instructions do you play Mane, Firmino, Keita, Milner (CM) and Thiago?

[paddypower]

13 hours ago, Fritz13 said:

Who did you go for as your new HOYD?

Bruno Conti, he has great stats and he is a model professional. Sometimes the HOYD can pass on their personalities to newgens

[RLC]

2 hours ago, diddydaddydoddy said:

Out of interest gents, when trying to get realistic performances, what position/instructions do you play Mane, Firmino, Keita, Milner (CM) and Thiago?

Realistic performances like how they tend to play irl or how they usually do stats wise irl?

I always play Firmino as a DLF(s), Mane as a IW(a) and Salah as IF(s). Haven’t really decided on Thiago yet, either DLP(d) as DM or AP(s) as CM. 

[RLC]

Keep having problems with penalties, hade the same issue on FM20. Missed 3/5 so far, both Salah and Milner. Gonna give Fabinho a chance now for a while. 

[diddydaddydoddy]

Just now, RLC said:

Realistic performances like how they tend to play irl or how they usually do stats wise irl?

I always play Firmino as a DLF(s), Mane as a IW(a) and Salah as IF(s). Haven’t really decided on Thiago yet, either DLP(d) as DM or AP(s) as CM. 

In real life. I play Firmino, Mane the same and Salah IF(a). Milner i can never decide

[Fritz13]

3 hours ago, paddypower said:

Bruno Conti, he has great stats and he is a model professional. Sometimes the HOYD can pass on their personalities to newgens

Yeah I went for him too - he was Model Citizen on mine.

as the squad is pretty solid to begin with maybe the exception of a reserve RB and a 4th CB the only other position that needs to be looked at is whether to keep Adrian for a second season in 21-22 assuming Karius is a no brainier to let him leave.

Any considerations?

was thinking about Rulli at Vilarreal maybe.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Fritz13

[guruhd]

I know I should probably ask this elsewhere, but I’m unsure where that should be, and I’m hoping somebody here can help out a fellow LFC fan.  Team talks......I could just be a bit dense, but I’m confused as to how I do team talks for the groups and individuals.  So post match, the overall talk is straightforward, bu5 how do I speak to an individual?

I click the individual button and it appears everybody is highlighted/ticked.  Do I untick/unhighlight the guy I want to talk too?  It’s not quite clear to me.

[Rangieboy]

7 hours ago, diddydaddydoddy said:

Out of interest gents, when trying to get realistic performances, what position/instructions do you play Mane, Firmino, Keita, Milner (CM) and Thiago?

Hi Diddy!

Great work, as always on the data! I guess you have left Thiago the way he was from the Bayern researcher?

Been testing since 21-Beta was released:

I always tend to replicate Liverpool as close as possible and spend time to research matches of the current and previous seasons to get it as close to the real deal as possible.

In response to your question: Testing 4-3-3 most and tweaking and turning on a 4-2-3-1.

Firmino - DLF (S)

Mane - IF (A) with the PPM sit narrower (as opposed to Salah who usually starts out by the line and cuts inside).

Keita (Box to box midfielder), same with Milner really.

Thiago (well, i'm struggeling here. Tested him as DLP (s) in the 6-role, in the 8-role I have tried him as a DLP(s) or MEZ (A) in though away games with Fabinho anchoring the midfield. Hendo as the Box to box. He doesn't deliver unfortunatley in any of the roles.

I believe Liverpool play a more defined midfield trio this season. With a 6-role, an 8-role and a closer to a 10 with the starting point as one of the midfielders. I have noticed that the right central midfielder is the more advanced this season, as perhaps opposed to last season where I found the left one had the more offensive freedom. That results in one being a Box to Box (Hendo, Keita, Gini, Milner), with the other being a more creative outlet (AP(a)) or Mez (a) with either Thiago, Curtis Jones or Gini playing there.

Goal and assist wise Salah, Mane, Firmino and Jota all pitch in with goals and Assists.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Rangieboy

[diddydaddydoddy]

Thanks for the feedback. I’d ideally like to increase Thiago’s attributes/CA but unfortunately he’s not played 90 minutes for us so can’t justify it yet

[Rangieboy]

13 hours ago, diddydaddydoddy said:

Thanks for the feedback. I’d ideally like to increase Thiago’s attributes/CA but unfortunately he’s not played 90 minutes for us so can’t justify it yet

Yep, totally. Hard to justify it with his unlucky start for us. Well, fingers crossed he gains momentum now into late november and the packed december! With regards to attributes, I think he looks pretty good with a few exceptions. So a little boost as you say sounds fair, for the february update I guess.

[Siven]

Staff wise, i managed to get Ingethorpe a new contract just as the HOYD at 13.5k per week. So 3.5k a week to remove the redundant u18 coach secondary job and get him back to a 4 star coach. Happy with that.

Krawietz, you can remove Head of Performance secondary job 2 ways.

One is new contract, he'll want another 2k per week, so 22k a week for a 4 star coach. 

Second way is to recruit a new Head of Performance, and Krawietz will sign a new contract as a coach for his 20k a week he starts at.  Either way, hes back to a 4 star coach, rather than 3 star with 2 jobs.

Kornmayers the hard one. With 2 jobs hes a 3.5 star coach, but as just a fitness coach hes a 4.5 star coach!, but he wants around 17k a week, and he starts the game at 6.5k  . Got it, hire a head of sports science, now Kornmayer will accept just a Fitness coach role for 7.5k a week  

 

Is the extra star for coaching worth paying them more to lose their 2nd job? I guess thats up to you, but for me it is.

Edited November 15, 2020 by Siven

[salkster2102]

Did anyone manage to sign another centre back?

[Fritz13]

3 hours ago, salkster2102 said:

Did anyone manage to sign another centre back?

I got Eric Garcia on loan in Aug when City transfer listed him then signed for in Jan 2022 for £23.5M rising to £26.5M

Just beat City 7-0 

[paddypower]

Also took Garcia on loan. No fee and 12k wages. He's leaving City on a free so hoping to get him, but there's a lot of interest so hopefully he doesn't sign anything before I can offer.

[paddypower]

Well well well...

 

[Fritz13]

26 minutes ago, paddypower said:

Also took Garcia on loan. No fee and 12k wages. He's leaving City on a free so hoping to get him, but there's a lot of interest so hopefully he doesn't sign anything before I can offer.

Nobody else bid for him which was a bit odd - then again I did bid in late Nov.

[Fritz13]

19 minutes ago, paddypower said:

Well well well...

 

Where does he fit in 

[paddypower]

I player 4231, so he'll take Firmino's spot in the hole. Haaland upfront, Salah and Mane on the wings - it's going to be good to witness! 

[Fritz13]

12 hours ago, paddypower said:

I player 4231, so he'll take Firmino's spot in the hole. Haaland upfront, Salah and Mane on the wings - it's going to be good to witness! 

[RLC]

20 hours ago, salkster2102 said:

Did anyone manage to sign another centre back?

I signed Milenkovic from Fiorentina, as potential and can play RB as well.

[RLC]

What transfers have you made on the new game?

I sold Origi and Minamino and bought Ansu Fati and Milenkovic but I need another striker as well. Was looking at Alexander Isak or João Felix and the board has agreed to take care of the transfer for me. Tried the same on Haaland but he wouldn't accept the contract offer from Edwards...

[Staf9]

any regular poster have time to start a FM21 liverpool thread. i can help out with Screenshots later if needed just havent time to set up and post a full intro

[glenn28]

Waiting on the full release & will start a new save most likely to play 4-2-3-1 to fit Jota in my tactic instead of 4-3-3 which will be my secondary tactic 

[Staf9]

13 hours ago, glenn28 said:

Waiting on the full release & will start a new save most likely to play 4-2-3-1 to fit Jota in my tactic instead of 4-3-3 which will be my secondary tactic 

Good to see you back mate. hope all is well

[Rangieboy]

While we wait for a FM21 Thread for Liverpool I'd bring up some observations from the beta:

I might be a slow player in terms of progress, but I really enjoy the challenge of replicating Liverpool under Klopp as close to the real deal as possible. It took some time to build a 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 that works, but I now feel I'm close enough to lock them in. Still not all to happy with my 4-3-3 away formation for matches vs top teams. Here I'm currently on a vertical tiki taka, balanced / flexible formation. Not sure Klopp would agree with me!

Stats below gathered up until january 1st 2021:

It took some time to get Trent Alexander Arnold (4 assists) and Robertson (6 assists) to preform as they do in real life. Now the chip in with assists, and even the odd goal here and there. Started them as complete Wing Backs (CWB)s/a but have now ended on WB(a) and WB(s) respectively.

The front trio works very well. Firmino - DLF(s) works well in the linkup and to create space and chances for Salah - IF(a) on the right and Mane -IF(a) on the left. Stats: Firmino: 9 goals 1 assist. Salah 16 goals 4 assists and Mane 7 goals 3 assists. Jota has also hit the ground running, usually wide left, having scored 6 goals and added 7 assists.

The midfield consists of Fabinho (anchorman) in the 6-role, with impressive stats of 90% tackle rate, averaging 3 tackles/match. He also has 81 interceptions over 25 games. Henderson plays in the Box-to-Box 8-role, with Keita really impressive as backup in the same role (scoring 7 goals in 14 games - wow, lets hope for those stats in real life!). Thiago was early on a frustration and dissapointment as I noted above, I couldn't seem to fit him in. With enough match preparation training he has grown into the massive AP(a/s - home/away) with 3 goals and 8 assists.

Team in general

Plays very well, undefeated through to january, beating Barcelona 4-1 away and 4-1 home, Inter 4-0 home as the huge results in the Champions League. In the League, big wins over Chelsea, Tottenham and Newcastle boost to a good league lead. 

Question for @diddydaddydoddy :

I have tried to read up a bit on the Data threads and so on. Will there be a lot of database changes to Liverpool in the full release on the 24th that is not in the beta? If so I think I'll just finish one season and start fresh with the full release.

From what I can gather the changes in the players from FM20 to 21 seems fair and decent. I don't find that anyone are to crazy, neither underrated. Squad players like Minamino, Shaqiri, Ox,  as well as the young CBs feels really well balanced compared with their first choice counterparts. Great job!

[diddydaddydoddy]

@Rangieboy Thanks for the insight and good to see you've got realistic play. I'm the same as you I always want to replicate the way we play in real life. I agonise over Milner's best role, is Sadio IF(a) or IW(a) and how to make sure Bobby doesn't score a shed load. I also did the same with Robbo/TAA starting them as CWBs to start with. Keep me posted.

TBH I can't quite recall how many days old the Beta DB is (7-10 days?), but there are a few factual ones mostly but some very minor attribute changes too, but nothing massive though. However the final release will have better game and match play, which may affect how you've set up your squad/tactics very slightly. So I would start a new save irrespective on the 24th.

[Rangieboy]

@diddydaddydoddy

Thanks alot for the feedback ! Starting a new save for sure then.

Regarding Milner: I agree, also I must admit he has been the "team potato" once again. Filling in where I need him. Right wing back for cup matches when either Trent or Neco is unavailable, in the box to box role, as a ball winning midfielder in the League Cup and left wing back. I must say that I have been very lucky avoiding injuries to the midfield.

Mane: I agree, I'll give him a go as an IW(a) in the second part of the season and do some comparison for stats and how he behaves in games and look at my analysis of his role the past seasons.

Bobby oh Bobby! Personally I think he is a wonderful player, despite some critique to his recent real life form. He is also the hardest one to replicate for me, since he is so much on the pitch. In form he is a goal threat as well as the first defender, creator and space opener. Perhaps I should make a suggestion to make a new forward role for FM22 - "the Firmino role?", lol. It is always a struggle to avoid him being a top scorer, some times I find a way, other times I just have to give up and let him score. Right now I try him as a DLF (s) with the instruction: "shoot less".  Hopefully that will combine well with his trait aiming to pass before scoring.

 

[diddydaddydoddy]

Will be interested in how Mane compares in both positions - I do struggle to get his scoring figures up sometimes. Spot on with Bobby - I have to play him as a CD (stopper) to stop the bugger scoring 

Edited November 17, 2020 by diddydaddydoddy

[salkster2102]

@diddydaddydoddy one thing thats puzzled me on this FM and the last few is Trent's fitness. Always found him to be the one that needs subbing most due to tiredness. Any particular reason or just me?

[diddydaddydoddy]

3 minutes ago, salkster2102 said:

@diddydaddydoddy one thing thats puzzled me on this FM and the last few is Trent's fitness. Always found him to be the one that needs subbing most due to tiredness. Any particular reason or just me?

Never noticed that myself in my saves. His Natural Fitness/Stamina/Strength are all good. Anyone else?

[salkster2102]

May just be me if I'm overworking him but would be interested to know if others have this issue. I'll try and play some more over the new few days and let you know before the 24th.

[Siven]

Not really played much yet, kinda waiting on full release incase theres any big changes or fixes, like last years there was a problem with determination stat. Also release is same time as new WoW expansion, so busy time for me. I only started this thread as no one else had, so i hope someone is gonna start a FM21 thread.

In FM20 i always had my wingbacks as WBs, and they worked really well. With Mane as IWa and Salah as IFa, Firmino as DLFs. Though if i get Haaland after a season or 2, he'll be a CFa and Mane a IWs i think.

[Rangieboy]

8 hours ago, salkster2102 said:

@diddydaddydoddy one thing thats puzzled me on this FM and the last few is Trent's fitness. Always found him to be the one that needs subbing most due to tiredness. Any particular reason or just me?

Not had any issues with Trent's fitness. Not in previous versions, and not in FM21. In the thoughest period (october - november - december) in my current save he usually sat out the odd match, either PL or CL depending on where I felt I could rest him. In the 18 matches he has played up until new year I subbed him once, and that was because of a knock.