ME in Beta was better?

[Novem9]

In FM19 Beta tactic module was perfect

But it seems that after the release there was a rollback to the prev version with anarchy on the field like in FM18

should we expect changes in the winter patch?

[iAlwaysWin]

The beta version ME was beautifull, i was enjoying the game so much, for whatever reason nerfs had to happen because according to people on this forum the game was to easy and people where enjoying the game to much.

[Rashidi]

Just now, iAlwaysWin said:

The beta version ME was beautifull, i was enjoying the game so much, for whatever reason nerfs had to happen because according to people on this forum the game was to easy and people where enjoying the game to much.

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. 

[iAlwaysWin]

Just now, Rashidi said:

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. 

How so? when you see default instructions for freekicks and corners changed for no logical reason whatelse are you suppose to think.

[AJJ]

Is the second image in the OP from the game itself?

[iAlwaysWin]

4 minutes ago, AJJ said:

Is the second image in the OP from the game itself?

Real life

 

[AJJ]

Thank God for that. Thought my GPU was on the fritz lol

[Novem9]

4 минуты назад, AJJ сказал:

Is the second image in the OP from the game itself?

Left image is 2D screenshot from FM19 Beta, right image is real game of ManCity

This is a good example of how amazingly the game reproduced tactical ideas in beta stage, but after release it is much weaker

[Mitja]

yeah if the true problem - player movement was improved we would have very solid ME. through balls were lacking too. 

[Armistice]

It was far from perfect. But it was better than what it is now.

[Novem9]

2 минуты назад, Mitja сказал:

yeah if the true problem - player movement was improved we would have very solid ME. through balls were lacking too. 

This is a real big work to create ME and I guess AI not ready yet for new ME. Because in Beta was amazing reproduction, but small AI resistance

After release I see a lot of improves, in defence firstly. Freekicks, corners too. A lot of little improves also

so I just sincerely want to know (if it is possible to get this info), whether innovations are planned in the engine of current FM or possibly no

[priority76]

1 hour ago, iAlwaysWin said:

 

Well I think the ME is better now than it was in beta.  There were too many goals, games that were like 7-3 were far too common and you could play a season and not have a 0-0.  Plenty of 0-0s now.  It shouldn't be expected to win so many games 4-1 or 5-1 like it was in the beta.  Actually I'm struggling to score goals now, my strikers are rubbish.  I love it.

[richh200]

Does anyone know if they are working on a fix to the current match engine? I'm not sure I can play the game again unless it reverts back to something similar to the beta version. And that's breaking my heart, as I just want to enjoy the game again.

[iAlwaysWin]

24 minutes ago, priority76 said:

Well I think the ME is better now than it was in beta.  There were too many goals, games that were like 7-3 were far too common and you could play a season and not have a 0-0.  Plenty of 0-0s now.  It shouldn't be expected to win so many games 4-1 or 5-1 like it was in the beta.  Actually I'm struggling to score goals now, my strikers are rubbish.  I love it.

Your strikers are not rubbish, its a match engine problem.

[Punt]

Strikers are not scoring at all no matter what the roles,formations or chances. What about pressing? 3 players are pressing the ball carrier and leaving whole sides of the pitch empty and opposition players  unmarked ( opponent has the ball on the left side and THREE! players are pressing him at once and leaving opponent´s player alone on the right for a clear one on one with goalie ). I would get that this happens at the start of the save when your team isn´t used to your tactic or high pressing but i played around 40 matches in season with tactic fluid and they still don`t know how to press properly. I think this was SI´s answer to people saying that pressing is overpowered in BETA.

[Viking]

30 minutes ago, Punt said:

Strikers are not scoring at all no matter what the roles,formations or chances. What about pressing? 3 players are pressing the ball carrier and leaving whole sides of the pitch empty and opposition players  unmarked ( opponent has the ball on the left side and THREE! players are pressing him at once and leaving opponent´s player alone on the right for a clear one on one with goalie ). I would get that this happens at the start of the save when your team isn´t used to your tactic or high pressing but i played around 40 matches in season with tactic fluid and they still don`t know how to press properly. I think this was SI´s answer to people saying that pressing is overpowered in BETA.

This is something I've experienced quite often. Three of my players runs towards the opponent that has the ball on one of the flanks, and leave one or two opponent players unmarked in front of my goal. Never saw that in the beta, or in any other version FM for that matter. I don't watch enough Championship football to know how often this happens in real life, though.

[Novem9]

19 минут назад, Punt сказал:

Strikers are not scoring at all no matter what the roles,formations or chances. What about pressing? 3 players are pressing the ball carrier and leaving whole sides of the pitch empty and opposition players  unmarked ( opponent has the ball on the left side and THREE! players are pressing him at once and leaving opponent´s player alone on the right for a clear one on one with goalie ). I would get that this happens at the start of the save when your team isn´t used to your tactic or high pressing but i played around 40 matches in season with tactic fluid and they still don`t know how to press properly. I think this was SI´s answer to people saying that pressing is overpowered in BETA.

Help me, Bob, I'm bully in the alley
Way-hey, hey-hey, bully in the alley
Help me, Bob, I'm bully in the alley
Bully down in shinbone al! 

(not my screenshot)

[Punt]

10 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Help me, Bob, I'm bully in the alley
Way-hey, hey-hey, bully in the alley
Help me, Bob, I'm bully in the alley
Bully down in shinbone al! 

(not my screenshot)

Picture worth a thousand words.   

What about fullback´s not crossing? Every time they have a chance to cross they wait until they lose the ball. I think this is also an answer from SI to "overpowered" crosses.

[Siven]

Didnt play beta so wouldnt know.

 

But i do know the ME right now isnt in a good place. Just need to read the threads in the ME bugs forum to see the problems

[Novem9]

3 минуты назад, Siven сказал:

Didnt play beta so wouldnt know.

 

But i do know the ME right now isnt in a good place. Just need to read the threads in the ME bugs forum to see the problems

Its true. I not read Football Manager 2019 *Official* Feedback Thread after release and posted this separately. I found the time to read all these discussion pages and see that many people have the same point of view

[Lynch48]

Wow someone blaming the ME, no one ever done this before

[priority76]

Just now, iAlwaysWin said:

Your strikers are not rubbish, its a match engine problem.

The match engine is fine, my strikers are rubbish.  Trust me, I have to work with them.  The AI strikers can bang them in against me.

[Novem9]

11 минут назад, priority76 сказал:

The match engine is fine, my strikers are rubbish.  Trust me, I have to work with them.  The AI strikers can bang them in against me.

There is no reason to doubt the words of Jürgen

Big scores in FM was one of the main reproaches, so I like realistic scores like 0-0, 1-0, 2-1 etc. Even with topstrikers can't finish by shot in box. I watch game of Bayern few weeks ago and misses were the same.

 

My post and question about players feedback. In beta I use some instructions and totally see it in a field. They do totally that I want. I ready to lose if players use my plan, and I dont want to win without my plan

We discussed in our local community delighted about it. But in real moment ME stepped back - feedback is low, different tactics visually have no big difference even in full match.

I created this post to asked about plannes to next patches, but As I found out after - a heated discussion unfolded in the next topic.

[Xeewaj Q.]

Yep, it was. 19.1.2 (m.e. 1914) introduced many weird things. The worst one is fullback lobotomy: they now often try to cut inside, pass a ball back or just dwell on it with their back to goal until they're robbed despite explicit instructions to stay wide and cross often/early and ideal situations for a cross. Not sure about completely broken offside as I played beta with a top team, but now defenders have 2-3 second lag before they realize that ball just flew above their head and some guy is few meters ahead of them. Well, it's not a big problem as I consider versions below XX.3 just a public betas.

PS for advocates: I'm not blaming ME at all and winning is still easy as always.

[Mitja]

12 minutes ago, Xeewaj Q. said:

Yep, it was. 19.1.2 (m.e. 1914) introduced many weird things. The worst one is fullback lobotomy: they now often try to cut inside, pass a ball back or just dwell on it with their back to goal until they're robbed despite explicit instructions to stay wide and cross often/early and ideal situations for a cross.

but you can look at it like it's ME compensation of poor defending of wide area when fullbacks are allways in perfect position to receive the ball with Xavi-like stwitching flank pass. also there's issue with late closing down where you will rarely see defender anticipating pass in advance and move towards a player who will receive the pass on time. defenders will close him down only after he receives the ball. personally i find it (with this in mind) better than having 50 crosses per game. 

another big issue is that fullbacks receive very little support out wide from their teammates, especially if you play with players in AM strata, they just pack themselves into the box and stay there.

[Xeewaj Q.]

2 minutes ago, Mitja said:

but you can look at it like it's ME compensation of poor defending of wide area when fullbacks are allways in perfect position to receive the ball with Xavi-like stwitching flank pass. also there's issue with late closing down where you will rarely see defender anticipating pass in advance and move towards a player who will receive the pass on time. defenders will close him down only after he receives the ball. personally i find it (with this in mind) better than having 50 crosses per game. 

Compensating one issue by introducing another one is not a good idea and it'll result in total chaos and unrealistic/unplayable match engine. Of course, we can pretend it didn't happen (like we do with 4-5 woodworks per match), but I personally have a limit for things like that.

3 minutes ago, Mitja said:

another big issue is that fullbacks receive very little support out wide from their teammates, especially if you play with players in AM strata, they just pack themselves into the box and stay there.

It probably depends on tactic/player instructions 'cause I often see 4-5 players chasing someone on the flank and penalty area with a lone keeper and opposition players. Center-backs have "Stay Wider" instruction, maybe it'll solve this problem.

[Double Indemnity]

Strongly disagree!

[wicksyFM]

4 hours ago, Punt said:

What about fullback´s not crossing? Every time they have a chance to cross they wait until they lose the ball. I think this is also an answer from SI to "overpowered" crosses.

Im having the opposite problem. My team can not stop crossing the ball and it gets on my nerves. Ive had matches where i get 50+ in a game. 

[Xeewaj Q.]

5 hours ago, Punt said:

Strikers are not scoring at all no matter what the roles,formations or chances.

Not true. Best striker role is CF/Support. Avoid dumbrunners and look for good all-rounders, they'll score a lot. I'll post this picture once again:

Or for more average players:

[pejocho]

hace 12 minutos, Xeewaj Q. dijo:

Not true. Best striker role is CF/Support. Avoid dumbrunners and look for good all-rounders, they'll score a lot. I'll post this picture once again:

Or for more average players:

 

Strikers dont score enough goals. Maybe yes in a specific role of one tactic that fits the functioning of ME , but not in general cases.  Just have to see the comparison of goals of the strikers before and after 2018 simulating a few years.

[Xeewaj Q.]

6 minutes ago, pejocho said:

Strikers dont score enough goals. Maybe yes in a specific role of one tactic that fits the functioning of ME , but not in general cases.  Just have to see the comparison of goals of the strikers before and after 2018 simulating a few years. 

Well, the match engine is not 100% realistic, so some roles/players work better. Why not play what gives the best results? Also, 23 goals are not that bad for top leagues. Rewgen defenders are much better than we have at the game start, so it may be a reason for top score declining. And don't forget scripted "goal droughts". Some strikers may get two during one season.

PS it was scary to see DLC with 23 goals until I realized it's probably not "defender (left, center)" but "el delantero".

[Punt]

35 minutes ago, Xeewaj Q. said:

Not true. Best striker role is CF/Support. Avoid dumbrunners and look for good all-rounders, they'll score a lot. I'll post this picture once again:

Or for more average players:

Either you are very lucky or we are not playing the same game.  

Don´t get me wrong. My results are very good but the performance of my strikers ( of any role ) are very poor.

[Xeewaj Q.]

1 minute ago, Punt said:

Either you are very lucky or we are not playing the same game.  

Don´t get me wrong. My results are very good but the performance of my strikers ( of any role ) are very poor.

They probably don't get a decent supply from other players. Try my tactics - even Neymar scores 0.5 goals per 90 minutes with it.

 

[Punt]

17 minutes ago, Xeewaj Q. said:

They probably don't get a decent supply from other players. Try my tactics - even Neymar scores 0.5 goals per 90 minutes with it.

 

I just played a game where my striker had 4 one on one chances with a goalie and missing ALL of them. Supply is good because striker gets his chances. He just needs around 8-10 shots to score. It´s like something is holding him back.

[Xeewaj Q.]

29 minutes ago, Punt said:

I just played a game where my striker had 4 one on one chances with a goalie and missing ALL of them. Supply is good because striker gets his chances. He just needs around 8-10 shots to score. It´s like something is holding him back.

1-on-1 is not a good supply in FM and it never was. In the first FMs, it was even worse. MUCH worse I'd say. Good supply in FM is a pass after which striker can score with a first touch. That's why I said "no dumbrunners" (and no longballs).

[themadsheep2001]

Guys and gals, there's literally a thread dedicated to this already in the feedback thread so closing this.