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LeonardSnart

Manchester City Pep Guardiola Tactic Recreation

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I am a huge fan of Pep Guardiola. His Manchester City is the best Premier Leauge team I've ever seen and I want to recreate his tactic.
Everyone knows that wingbacks are cutting inside the midfield, wingers stays close the line to remain width and ofensive atacking midfielders are moving into the halfspaces.
It is the mix of typical short passes when in possesion and counterpressing + counter in transition. There is also high press when team has no ball.

Here is my interpretation:

fm_2018-11-12_01-14-52.thumb.png.1951aff0b4e567d437fd45b2982e935d.png

I am not sure about midfield trio roles. And team shape IMO should be fluid, but unfortunately, FM prefers flexible.

 

 

What would you improve to make this more realistic and effective?

Edited by LeonardSnart
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Blasphemy. To create Pep tactic using Real Madrid.

I don't agree with the roles of the front 3. I think the wingbacks need to be back to regular FB positions. Does Pep still use inverted wingbacks? And I wouldn't use Positive Mentality. If you watch the recent match vs United for example, you will see how cautious his City team were in the possession. 

Team Fluidity in FM19 is not Team Shape anymore, btw.

@kpsia518 Let's see how close you get to Pep tactic in FM.

 

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So why then tell others that only 50-60% is possible? Which parts are possible and which aren't? What is this 50-60%?

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18 minutes ago, yonko said:

So why then tell others that only 50-60% is possible? Which parts are possible and which aren't? What is this 50-60%?

I mean due to ME issue,so WE only can do 50~60%.

i didn't mean,you are poor or somebody is poor,or some thing like this...PLZ don't miss understanding

 

Quote

What is this 50-60% ?

because we can't make "positional play" happen in this ME.
without "positional play",that means its not pep style.
so that is what i means "we only can 50-60%"...

Edited by kpsia518

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27 minutes ago, kpsia518 said:

I mean due to ME issue,so WE only can do 50~60%.

i didn't mean,you are poor or somebody is poor,or some thing like this...PLZ don't miss understanding

 

because we can't make "positional play" happen in this ME.
without "positional play",that means its not pep style.
so that is what i means "we only can 50-60%"...

We can through player roles and duties. We won't be able to get the interchanging...for example if the winger is wide and the fb is narrow then the winger cuts inside the fb goes wide...we won't really be able to do that but we will be able to get them not occupying the same vertical lane which is the basis.

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1st,look at this pic,
 
3-4.thumb.jpg.f0b4e5da394caeeed119a7fbddd4002a.jpg


we got 3 fase,
Phase 1 — playing out from the back and playing the first opponent/defender away. 
Phase 2— penetrate through either central, half-space or wide-area.
Phase 3 — Get shots inside and outside danger-zone, by low crosses, high crosses, straight crosses, chip-balls, cutbacks, dribbles, combinations etc.


 Phase 1 & Phase 2 follow the rules.(& the rules is stay in position & don't move at all cost)
Phase 3 no rules,you can do every thing.


the main issue for pep style.

1)in Phase 2,how to tell player stay in position :
pep.thumb.jpg.e6447d2d6c682553708d53615be1361b.jpg

look at the red dot,how to tell player stay in position ?
stay in position & don't move too far ?

2) why pep style can pressing so effective ?

because positional play,player don't need to move too far to chase/press the ball.
& that why stay in position is main problem.

3) how to pin IF/w at wide area ?


this is another issue i face,how to pin IF/w at wide area & don't move ?!


so far,i success to get 70~80% possession,but fail to get the right attacking play.

Edited by kpsia518

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another issue is pressing issue.we got 4 type of high pressing style:
 

Quote

 

1) Heynckes’ manoriented
2) Klopp’s space-oriented
3) Guardiola’s passing lane oriented
4) Adi Hütter’s balloriented

 

 

 


so far we only saw ball-oriented high pressing in the game.

can't wait to see some body success to create other pressing style

 

& so far M.E 19.12 is "tiki-taka unfriendly".
low block counter,or English style football is best in this ME.

Edited by kpsia518

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3 hours ago, yonko said:

Does Pep still use inverted wingbacks?

To some extend. Like the end of last season the fullbacks positioning are more fluid - or perhaps just dictated by the players in front him. Mendy is often inside if Silva is high and the winger wide. If that change, for example Silva dropping back, the winger going inside then the fullback goes wide.

The thing - you know this, I know - is we can get one part of Citys movement. So we could the IWB-move on one side - and the WB move on the other (this is where the midfielder holds the midfield and protects). 

I also think you are right regarding mentality. 

To me - agter experimenting a lot - you can replicate City to some extend by using a 4-1-4-1-0 strikerless. The way Aguero operates relatively close to the midfield - to be that central passing option as the midfield duo is quite wide in their spacing - constantly in the half spaces. I would maybe setup something like this - as a start:

SW(s)

FB(a) - CD - CD - IWB(s)

DM(d)

WM(a - roam/cut inside) - CM - Mez(a) - IW(s - stay wider, get further forward) 

Shadow Striker

 

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@LeonardSnart Guardiola changes game to game, mainly on the flanks with the wide forwards and fullbacks. 

The main changes i'd make to your tactic is

  • I'd not lock in look for underlaps
  • The DM is not a playmaker, play might go through him but the team does not look to him as a main creator.  DM-D I think fits Fernandinho's general role, whilst he will pop up further forward sometimes, i'd say thats when he's swapped position due to whats happened on the pitch and is rare enough to not be planned specifically.
  • The ST is more of a F9-S.  The ST drops and links play too often to be an attack duty.  I think this is one of the main changes Guardiola demanded of Aguero.
  • One game to game change or in game change is the FBs provide the width as WB-S or CWB-S whist the wide forwards are IF-A.  Sterling on left is different to Sterling on right or how Sane plays, which could be a "player trait" and how guardiola gives them freedom in the final third.

Don't worry about team shape/flexability, thats basically how many overlaps are built in from roles.  If you have attack duties up front and defend at back its classes as a structured system, if you have attack deep with support up front then it will be fluid since players will contribute to multiple phases with the deeper players getting past the advanced players more often.  If anything Guardiola has a very structured buildup phase with the back 7+GK executing his plan, once they are transitioning into attack the front 5 can pretty much do what they like with the back 5 providing a supportive base.

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The roles and duties depend a lot on the players really. Sane's usually a Winger (A) on the left, Mahrez is an IF (A) on the right, and Sterling is a W(A) or IF (A) depending on his stronger foot. You could also consider him to be a Raumdeter as well. Aguero is a CF (A) imo. We don't really use IWB's anymore, as with Mahrez and Sterling typically cutting inside Mendy and Walker stay wide to provide width, so I'd use WB (A).

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38 minutes ago, FlairRA said:

The roles and duties depend a lot on the players really. Sane's usually a Winger (A) on the left, Mahrez is an IF (A) on the right, and Sterling is a W(A) or IF (A) depending on his stronger foot. You could also consider him to be a Raumdeter as well. Aguero is a CF (A) imo. We don't really use IWB's anymore, as with Mahrez and Sterling typically cutting inside Mendy and Walker stay wide to provide width, so I'd use WB (A).

I reckon Aguero is more like a false 9 in most games...he doesn't really seem to break behind the D line but rather link up play then attack the box late to score from a cutback. 

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59 minutes ago, FlairRA said:

The roles and duties depend a lot on the players really. Sane's usually a Winger (A) on the left, Mahrez is an IF (A) on the right, and Sterling is a W(A) or IF (A) depending on his stronger foot. You could also consider him to be a Raumdeter as well. Aguero is a CF (A) imo. We don't really use IWB's anymore, as with Mahrez and Sterling typically cutting inside Mendy and Walker stay wide to provide width, so I'd use WB (A).

True. But imo what should be most important - when trying to replicate this City side - is to get the sort of WW  (or WM) shape going when you have the ball. Two players really wide, two in the half spaces, one central - behind them two lines of 3 and 2 players that supports and protect. It’s essentially the shape City has in possession untill the final third in most of their games. It can change a lot when they face teams that puts 11 men behind the ball though. 

That can luckily be achieved in multiple ways. 

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5 hours ago, FlairRA said:

The roles and duties depend a lot on the players really. Sane's usually a Winger (A) on the left, Mahrez is an IF (A) on the right, and Sterling is a W(A) or IF (A) depending on his stronger foot. You could also consider him to be a Raumdeter as well. Aguero is a CF (A) imo. We don't really use IWB's anymore, as with Mahrez and Sterling typically cutting inside Mendy and Walker stay wide to provide width, so I'd use WB (A).

 

What if Sane plays as Winger on the left and Mahrez plays as IF on the right? Does Mendy still stay wide? i think Mendy goes half space and become inverted back.

13 hours ago, yonko said:

Blasphemy. To create Pep tactic using Real Madrid.

@kpsia518

 

Fight fire with fire.

Edited by LeonardSnart

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Just now, NabsKebabs said:

I reckon Aguero is more like a false 9 in most games...he doesn't really seem to break behind the D line but rather link up play then attack the box late to score from a cutback. 

He doesn't break behind the d-line as most sides sit deep against us and give him no space, that's more the wide players job. I chose CF (A) as he's supposed to work hard and create chances with his movement while being on the end of cutbacks as you said, and I think an (A) duty would be better than a (S) duty for that job. That being said, his PPM's do certainly lend themselves to a False 9 sort of role. 

Just now, Gegenklaus said:

True. But imo what should be most important - when trying to replicate this City side - is to get the sort of WW  (or WM) shape going when you have the ball. Two players really wide, two in the half spaces, one central - behind them two lines of 3 and 2 players that supports and protect. It’s essentially the shape City has in possession until the final third in most of their games. It can change a lot when they face teams that puts 11 men behind the ball though. 

That can luckily be achieved in multiple ways. 

Well said, I'm interested in how you would achieve this? Perhaps using the "Stick to Positions" TI, though that instinctively feels wrong to me. 

 

Just now, LeonardSnart said:
What if Sane plays as Winger on the left and Mahrez plays as IF on the right? Does Mendy still stay wide? i think Mendy goes half space and become inverted back.

 Can't recall that scenario happening too often this season, but I agree Mendy looks to cut inside more when Sane's on the pitch. An IWB (A) imo. It's beautiful the balance Guardiola's brought to our team. 

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It is very tricky to replicate in real life, as he uses very similar formations with slight differences every match (Am a City fan, from Manchester believe it or not!)

For example, against United yesterday he used a 4-3-3, which in defence is a 4-1-4-1 and in attack is a 3-5-2 which I would set up as below;

GK - Ederson - SK (A)

DR - Kyle Walker - NFB (D) - Sit Narrower, Cut Inside With Ball

DL - Benjamin Mendy - CWB (A)

DC - John Stones - BPD (C)/Libero (S)

DC - Aymeric Laporte - BPD (D)

DM - Fernandinho - RGA (S)

MC - Bernardo Silva - MEZ (S) - Dribble Less, Shoot Less

MC - David Silva - MEZ (S) - Dribble Less, Shoot Less

AMR - Riyad Mahrez - W (S) - Cross From Deep, Shoot Less

AML - Raheem Sterling - RMD (A)

STCR - Sergio Aguero - F9 (S) - Roam From Position, Shoot Less

It's really important to have the striker in the striker centre right position, so that the Raumdeuter has space to move centrally, and the Complete Wing Back has the room to move forward into a left winger position, the No Nonsense Full Back acts really well as an auxiliary center back, however you will have to train them to not Get Forward Whenever Possible

Against Liverpool however in defence it acted as a 4-4-1-1, and in attack it was a 3-5-2 as below;

GK - Ederson - SK (A)

DR - Kyle Walker - NFB (D) - Sit Narrower, Cut Inside with Ball

DL - Benjamin Mendy - CWB (A)

DC - John Stones - BPD (C)/Libero (S)

DC - Aymeric Laporte - BPD (D)

MR - Riyad Mahrez - IW (A) - Cross From Deep, Cross More Often

ML - Raheem Sterling - IW (S) - Cross From Deep, Cross More Often, Get Further Forward

MC - Bernardo Silva - DLP (S)

MC - Fernandinho - DLP (D)

AMCR - David Silva - AM (A) - Shoot Less

STCL - Sergio Aguero - F9 (S) - Roam From Position

To someone who hasn't followed City it could look like both formations were the same, but in fact they were very very different, the main reason we went with a player in the AM strata against Liverpool is to give their midfielders something to think about, as their pressing is excellent however if we managed to play through their press David Silva would be in acres all game, so it does one of two things A) gives Silva more room to work in B) it stops Liverpool pressing so high to cover the spaces Silva takes up

Both formations I would go with the Tiki Taka set up but change the attacking width to as wide as possible, other than that everything stays the same

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34 minutes ago, FlairRA said:

Well said, I'm interested in how you would achieve this? Perhaps using the "Stick to Positions" TI, though that instinctively feels wrong to me. 

No, I would simply use roles and duties that divides the team into 5 players that attack and 5 players who defend/supports. City does this fluidly, as you know. For example if Mendy attacks wide, then the winger moves into the half space and Silva/Silva drops back to protect/offering a back pass option. That’s the beauty. They are so disciplined and follow Guardiola’s philosophy almost blindly. They know where to be a in relation to each other. What does this system of kinda rigid do exactly? It enables them to keep control for long periods of time because they almost constantly retain their shape that has 5(!) pinning the opponents defense in each zone, and 5 protecting. That’s why they so easily can win back the ball or force it long. But what makes them unique is that the players can shift in and out of their roles. I am suspecting that are lot of his movement is dictated by mainly the two number 8’s. 

We are somewhat limited when it comes to FM, but you can easily dictate which two players provides width, which two are in the half spaces and who is the central attacker (mainly the striker). You then need possession to etablish your attacking shape. If you manage that, I think you have come aslong way to replicate Pep’s City or even just philosophy in FM. Also, it’s quite fun to follow these guidelines and adapt during games if you spot a weak link. :)

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58 minutes ago, Pughie24 said:

It is very tricky to replicate in real life, as he uses very similar formations with slight differences every match (Am a City fan, from Manchester believe it or not!)

For example, against United yesterday he used a 4-3-3, which in defence is a 4-1-4-1 and in attack is a 3-5-2 which I would set up as below;

GK - Ederson - SK (A)

DR - Kyle Walker - NFB (D) - Sit Narrower, Cut Inside With Ball

DL - Benjamin Mendy - CWB (A)

DC - John Stones - BPD (C)/Libero (S)

DC - Aymeric Laporte - BPD (D)

DM - Fernandinho - RGA (S)

MC - Bernardo Silva - MEZ (S) - Dribble Less, Shoot Less

MC - David Silva - MEZ (S) - Dribble Less, Shoot Less

AMR - Riyad Mahrez - W (S) - Cross From Deep, Shoot Less

AML - Raheem Sterling - RMD (A)

STCR - Sergio Aguero - F9 (S) - Roam From Position, Shoot Less

It's really important to have the striker in the striker centre right position, so that the Raumdeuter has space to move centrally, and the Complete Wing Back has the room to move forward into a left winger position, the No Nonsense Full Back acts really well as an auxiliary center back, however you will have to train them to not Get Forward Whenever Possible

Against Liverpool however in defence it acted as a 4-4-1-1, and in attack it was a 3-5-2 as below;

GK - Ederson - SK (A)

DR - Kyle Walker - NFB (D) - Sit Narrower, Cut Inside with Ball

DL - Benjamin Mendy - CWB (A)

DC - John Stones - BPD (C)/Libero (S)

DC - Aymeric Laporte - BPD (D)

MR - Riyad Mahrez - IW (A) - Cross From Deep, Cross More Often

ML - Raheem Sterling - IW (S) - Cross From Deep, Cross More Often, Get Further Forward

MC - Bernardo Silva - DLP (S)

MC - Fernandinho - DLP (D)

AMCR - David Silva - AM (A) - Shoot Less

STCL - Sergio Aguero - F9 (S) - Roam From Position

To someone who hasn't followed City it could look like both formations were the same, but in fact they were very very different, the main reason we went with a player in the AM strata against Liverpool is to give their midfielders something to think about, as their pressing is excellent however if we managed to play through their press David Silva would be in acres all game, so it does one of two things A) gives Silva more room to work in B) it stops Liverpool pressing so high to cover the spaces Silva takes up

Both formations I would go with the Tiki Taka set up but change the attacking width to as wide as possible, other than that everything stays the same

seconded. this is bang on. all season you have been defending in a 4-1-4-1 and attacking with a 3 man defence, always with the right fullback whether its Walker or stones acting as a 3rd cb in attack. to be honest i think its all very much dependant on the players avaialabe. in midweek when zinchekno played full back his qualities lead to an inverted fullback and sane on the wing is much more of a traditional winger than sterling when he is on the left.

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4 minutes ago, argenmik said:

seconded. this is bang on. all season you have been defending in a 4-1-4-1 and attacking with a 3 man defence, always with the right fullback whether its Walker or stones acting as a 3rd cb in attack. to be honest i think its all very much dependant on the players avaialabe. in midweek when zinchekno played full back his qualities lead to an inverted fullback and sane on the wing is much more of a traditional winger than sterling when he is on the left.

Very much agreed, when Zinchenko and Delph play at left back they become Inverted Wing Backs and it tends to change the structure to this;

 

GK - SK (A)

DR - NFB (D) - Sit Narrower, Cut Inside with Ball

DL - IWB (S) - Hold Position, Shoot Less

DC - BPD (C)/Libero (S)

DC - BPD (D)

DM - RGA (S)

MC - MEZ (S) - Shoot Less, Dribble Less

MC - MEZ (A) - Shoot Less, Dribble Less

AMR - W (S) - Get Further Forward, Cross From Byline

AML - W (S) - Get Further Forward, Cross From Byline

STCR - CF (A)

it still attacks as a 3-5-2 and defends as a 4-1-4-1, to make it a 3-5-2 the attacking Mezzala becomes the auxiliary striker, thus the movement of the striker to the wider striker position, which also frees up space for the inverted wing back to move into, becoming a central midfielder.

The striker has changed to an attacking role, due to less players breaking from deep, this formation wouldn't work with a Raumdeuter, due to the spaces the attacking Mezzala takes up, so we need to supporting wingers to stay wide, keeping the central areas unoccupied, we saw this alot last season when Mendy was injured.

If you want to know as well we play 3-5-2 as a set formation and a 3-4-2-1 which I particularly like.

3-5-2;

GK - Ederson - SK (A)

DCR - Vincent Kompany - BPD (D)

DC - John Stones - Libero (S)

DCL - Aymeric Laporte - BPD (D)

MR - Raheem Sterling - W (A)

MCR - Kevin De Bruyne - MEZ (S) - Shoot Less, Dribble Less

MC - Fernandinho - DLP (D)

MCL - David Silva - MEZ (S) - Shoot Less, Dribble Less

ML - Benjamin Meny - W (A)

STCR - Gabriel Jesus - F9 (S) - Roam From Position

STCL - Sergio Aguero - F9 (S) - Roam From Position

 

3-4-2-1;

GK - Ederson - SK (A)

DCR - Vincent Kompany - BPD (D)

DC - John Stones - Libero (S)

DCL - Aymeric Laporte - BPD (D)

MR - Raheem Sterling - W (A)

MCR - Ilkay Gundogan - DLP (D)

MCL - Fernandinho - DLP (D)

ML - Benjamin Mendy - W (A)

AMCR - Kevin De Bruyne - AM (S) - Get Further Forward, Move Into Channels, Shoot Less

AMCL - David Silva - AM (S) - Get Further Forward, Move Into Channels, Shoot Less

ST - Sergio Aguero - CF (S) - Roam From Position

The 3-4-2-1 might be abit odd in that there are 4 players on with a defend duty, however it is integral so that the formation creates the "magic box" of 2 defensive midfielders and 2 attacking midfielders, I have tried it with 2 DLP (S) in the DM strata but that is a lot less stable due to having no players in the CM strata.

It is excellent in outnumbering teams that have 3 players in the CM strata, or only one defensive midfielder.

Never play this against a 4-2-3-1 of any kind, I am yet to work out which formation is best against that formation.

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12 minutes ago, Pughie24 said:

Very much agreed, when Zinchenko and Delph play at left back they become Inverted Wing Backs and it tends to change the structure to this;

 

GK - SK (A)

DR - NFB (D) - Sit Narrower, Cut Inside with Ball

DL - IWB (S) - Hold Position, Shoot Less

DC - BPD (C)/Libero (S)

DC - BPD (D)

DM - RGA (S)

MC - MEZ (S) - Shoot Less, Dribble Less

MC - MEZ (A) - Shoot Less, Dribble Less

AMR - W (S) - Get Further Forward, Cross From Byline

AML - W (S) - Get Further Forward, Cross From Byline

STCR - CF (A)

it still attacks as a 3-5-2 and defends as a 4-1-4-1, to make it a 3-5-2 the attacking Mezzala becomes the auxiliary striker, thus the movement of the striker to the wider striker position, which also frees up space for the inverted wing back to move into, becoming a central midfielder.

The striker has changed to an attacking role, due to less players breaking from deep, this formation wouldn't work with a Raumdeuter, due to the spaces the attacking Mezzala takes up, so we need to supporting wingers to stay wide, keeping the central areas unoccupied, we saw this alot last season when Mendy was injured.

If you want to know as well we play 3-5-2 as a set formation and a 3-4-2-1 which I particularly like.

3-5-2;

GK - Ederson - SK (A)

DCR - Vincent Kompany - BPD (D)

DC - John Stones - Libero (S)

DCL - Aymeric Laporte - BPD (D)

MR - Raheem Sterling - W (A)

MCR - Kevin De Bruyne - MEZ (S) - Shoot Less, Dribble Less

MC - Fernandinho - DLP (D)

MCL - David Silva - MEZ (S) - Shoot Less, Dribble Less

ML - Benjamin Meny - W (A)

STCR - Gabriel Jesus - F9 (S) - Roam From Position

STCL - Sergio Aguero - F9 (S) - Roam From Position

 

3-4-2-1;

GK - Ederson - SK (A)

DCR - Vincent Kompany - BPD (D)

DC - John Stones - Libero (S)

DCL - Aymeric Laporte - BPD (D)

MR - Raheem Sterling - W (A)

MCR - Ilkay Gundogan - DLP (D)

MCL - Fernandinho - DLP (D)

ML - Benjamin Mendy - W (A)

AMCR - Kevin De Bruyne - AM (S) - Get Further Forward, Move Into Channels, Shoot Less

AMCL - David Silva - AM (S) - Get Further Forward, Move Into Channels, Shoot Less

ST - Sergio Aguero - CF (S) - Roam From Position

The 3-4-2-1 might be abit odd in that there are 4 players on with a defend duty, however it is integral so that the formation creates the "magic box" of 2 defensive midfielders and 2 attacking midfielders, I have tried it with 2 DLP (S) in the DM strata but that is a lot less stable due to having no players in the CM strata.

It is excellent in outnumbering teams that have 3 players in the CM strata, or only one defensive midfielder.

Never play this against a 4-2-3-1 of any kind, I am yet to work out which formation is best against that formation.

Pretty exciting to read this. One thing is formation, roles and duties. Another thing is mentality and team instructions. How would you set that up? :)

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Guardiola changes the roles and formation on a match to match basis, or even during a match, so you can not create one tactic that perfectly reproduces: "this is how ManCity always plays". However you can analyze a match and try to reproduce how Man City played on that particular match. I watched their recent match vs Man Utd, so now I'm going to try to analyze it and show you how I would try to implement it into FM19. 

Analyzis
First let's talk about the fullbacks. People often forget that since Mendy's gametime is emerging, K. Walker's role is usually no longer a wingback who occupies the right flank, this season he plays a lot more cautiously, almost like Delph did last season.  The below screenshots show his touches vs ManUtd. You can see that he barely touched the ball in the final third, and usually could be found in the right half space. When City had the ball, Walker moved in to the right halfspace, J. Stones to the middle, while Laporte moved to the left halfspace. However you can not exactly create this movement in FM.
On the other side of the pitch Mendy usually hugged the touchline and played more aggressively, you can see that he had a lot more touches in the final third. However sometimes he also moved inside when Sterling occupied the left flank.
Touches vs ManUtd:
First image: Walker's touches;  Second image: Mendy's touches
walker.thumb.PNG.5730423bc3a1d067d9e3073cebf1158d.PNGmendy.thumb.PNG.76a2054a47ca15eea027dcb1d2d3637c.PNG

On the below screenshots you can see that Mahrez occupied the right wing while Sterling had a more free roaming role, often found in the left half space, sitting more narrower. You can also see Sterling had a lot more touches in the penalty area, compared to Mahrez.
First image: Mahrez; Second image: Sterling
mahrez.thumb.PNG.0a43b1f8cf048e53f5bc07646f4820e0.PNGsterling.thumb.PNG.3ce5a8fd7de63cc5e4acc913b096c087.PNG

And finally a screenshot just before the third ManCity goal, here you can clearly see the positioning of almost every player (except Laporte).
D. Silva usually occupied the left halfspace while B. Silva occupied the right halfspace, however their positioning was more fluid.
formation.thumb.PNG.1a7538cac3179bbebdfc2d57613e2f9a.PNG

FM19 TACTIC

This is how I would create this in FM19. (I use the RM/LM slots because I don't like the movement of the AMR/L in the current match engine when the ball is already in the final third.)
fm.thumb.PNG.98ebd10f86af846eda4ad49eec1c441a.PNG

I use Laporte as a BPD because he sometimes tries long diagonal passes to find Mahrez on the other side of the pitch. 
Additional PIs:
- Fernandinho: dribble less, hold position
- Mahrez: stay wider
- D. Silva: stay wider, more risky passes, roam from position
- Sterling: sit narrower, roam from position

The TIs could be tweaked, it's just a basis, I was focusing more on player roles/duties. Against ManUtd City started with a pretty attacking mentality, to replicate that I would choose positive mentality with normal tempo. After they got the lead, they switched to a more cautios and slower approach.
 

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Some really nice suggestions here. I agree that Walker is very much an inverted Wingback, with Mendy playing higher and wider. Aguero definitely isn't on an attack role, he's somewhere between a False and a support forward (CF-S would be my pick). You could play either  a 4-14-1, or a 4-3-3 with support roles for the wide roles. But the wide roles and the RB role are often subject to change. and of course the formation is subject to change too

This might interest some here: https://betweentheposts.net/manchester-city-united-3-1-guardiolas-side-dominate-lopsided-attack-display-sublime-possession-skills-secure-win/

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Thinking about it, ain't it better to start in some sort of 4141 instead of 41221 if you want to replicate Man City? With the IWB you might benefit more of the ML/MR during build-up compared to AML/AMR so the CB can actually play it to the wide midfielder?

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3 minutes ago, XcilPersion said:

Thinking about it, ain't it better to start in some sort of 4141 instead of 41221 if you want to replicate Man City? With the IWB you might benefit more of the ML/MR during build-up compared to AML/AMR so the CB can actually play it to the wide midfielder?

It also naturally gives you the defensive shape City has - and also, the wingers in MR/ML slot holds the width for much longer than roles in the AMR/AML strata. And with the new addition of LOE you can still press quite high - so, yes. :D

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Yeah, 4-1-4-1 is intresting option. Definitely I'll think about it.

One more question:

What about a high won matches, such as 7-2 against Stoke (last season) or 6-1 against Southampton (this season) where Sane played on the left and Sterling on the right?

Wingers were wingers(A) and fullback were IWB(S/A)?

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40 minutes ago, Gegenklaus said:

Pretty exciting to read this. One thing is formation, roles and duties. Another thing is mentality and team instructions. How would you set that up? :)

I go with Tiki Taka and just change the width to as wide as possible that's all I'd change

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2 minutes ago, LeonardSnart said:

Yeah, 4-1-4-1 is intresting option. Definitely I'll think about it.

One more question:

What about a high won matches, such as 7-2 against Stoke (last season) or 6-1 against Southampton (this season) where Sane played on the left and Sterling on the right?

Wingers were wingers(A) and fullback were IWB(S/A)?

Delph was an IWB. Not sure about wingers 

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19 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Some really nice suggestions here. I agree that Walker is very much an inverted Wingback, with Mendy playing higher and wider. Aguero definitely isn't on an attack role, he's somewhere between a False and a support forward (CF-S would be my pick). You could play either  a 4-14-1, or a 4-3-3 with support roles for the wide roles. But the wide roles and the RB role are often subject to change. and of course the formation is subject to change too

This might interest some here: https://betweentheposts.net/manchester-city-united-3-1-guardiolas-side-dominate-lopsided-attack-display-sublime-possession-skills-secure-win/

Problem with the IWB (D) position is that yes, it copies Walkers movements when he moves into midfield, but it doesn't create his main position of a wide center back, which is why I like the No Nonsense Full Back with Sit Narrower selected

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1 minute ago, Pughie24 said:

Problem with the IWB (D) position is that yes, it copies Walkers movements when he moves into midfield, but it doesn't create his main position of a wide center back, which is why I like the No Nonsense Full Back with Sit Narrower selected

IWB support had really nice movement, then moving back out wide.

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12 minutes ago, XcilPersion said:

Thinking about it, ain't it better to start in some sort of 4141 instead of 41221 if you want to replicate Man City? With the IWB you might benefit more of the ML/MR during build-up compared to AML/AMR so the CB can actually play it to the wide midfielder?

4-1-4-1 doesn't press high enough for me, even if you increase the line of engagement to its highest, if you play with W (S) in the AMRL strata they still get back to defend in a 4-1-4-1 shape, even to an extent a W (A) will, the Raumdeuter does so rarely but still does on occasion, IF (S) and (A) doesnt work for me at all for Pep Guardiola formations, it might help if you could ask them to move into channels, they obviously work for other formations

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8 minutes ago, LeonardSnart said:

Yeah, 4-1-4-1 is intresting option. Definitely I'll think about it.

One more question:

What about a high won matches, such as 7-2 against Stoke (last season) or 6-1 against Southampton (this season) where Sane played on the left and Sterling on the right?

Wingers were wingers(A) and fullback were IWB(S/A)?

I have to say in real life Sane and Mendy do not work on the left so I wouldnt want to recreate that on football manager, it was essentially a W (S) and a CWB (A) and both were taking up similar positions

 

The IWB (A) doesnt really work in a Pep system as it would end up taking up the same positions as the MEZ (S) (I know this because I tried it haha)

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4 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

IWB support had really nice movement, then moving back out wide.

I've never got it to work fair play to you!

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You are losing your time. It’s just impossible to represent in ME. All you can do is theorize about it. You can “write in the paper” but it won’t work.

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4 minutes ago, fasmercurio said:

You are losing your time. It’s just impossible to represent in ME. All you can do is theorize about it. You can “write in the paper” but it won’t work.

I 100% agree, but it's fun to try and get as close to it as possible

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overload mentality + lower tempo + counter attack until they scored for me. 

it's not possible to recreate Utd tactics in this ME let alone City's..

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if you are using wingers you need them in the ML/MR slots because in the AML/AMR they don't get wide enough in the final third.

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19 hours ago, kpsia518 said:

I mean due to ME issue,so WE only can do 50~60%.

i didn't mean,you are poor or somebody is poor,or some thing like this...PLZ don't miss understanding

 

because we can't make "positional play" happen in this ME.
without "positional play",that means its not pep style.
so that is what i means "we only can 50-60%"...

If you have failed and haven't been able to recreate anything more than 0% (by your own words), then why advice others how much it is possible to recreate Pep's tactic? 

If you say only 50-60% is possible then I would assume you have achieved that. Do you know what I mean? 

You post a lot informative analysis of Pep's tactic IRL, so which is that 50-60% that can be replicated and how do you know it can be done? Have you done it? You said 0%. Why? Where do you fail?

Pep's style is positional play, it is not tiki-taka. So if we can't recreate the positional play, there is not 50-60%. It is the whole 100%.

The truth is that we can recreate some element of his positional style but not the whole thing. The funny thing is we could if we still had wobble/wobble screen if you know or remember what those were. Cause we can position the players how we want in different areas of the field. But that ME is long gone now. 

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In terms of roles, Sane, Sterling and Mahrez stay wide but don't play like Wingers in FM terms. So IF role for them if played at AMR/L positions, or IW-A if played in the MR/L positions. Either way with PI to stay wider.

David and Bernardo Silva as Mez-S and Aguero is definitely with Support duty.

I think people overlook Team Mentality when talking about Pep's tactic. The more I watch games, the more I'm convinced that he uses aggressive roles within Cautious Team Mentality. 

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in terms of player movement and transition and if we agree Mourinho is on Cautious mentality then Pep cannot be on Cautious, these are two different worlds. but there's no such thing as mentality in football anyway, it's all about player roles, tempo, movement and transitions. City plays probably fastest transition currently just like Dortmund but with much higher d-line of course. once the ball is in final third against packed defense ball movement is very quick but patient.  

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imo mentality is the most important factor why we can't replicate this style into fm, high mentality can't give you patient aproach but you absolutly need this for player movement. and ''aggression''. (i'm not talking about current me, just in general fm terms)

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9 hours ago, FlairRA said:

He doesn't break behind the d-line as most sides sit deep against us and give him no space, that's more the wide players job. I chose CF (A) as he's supposed to work hard and create chances with his movement while being on the end of cutbacks as you said, and I think an (A) duty would be better than a (S) duty for that job. That being said, his PPM's do certainly lend themselves to a False 9 sort of role. 

That's what a support role/duty does. 

Edited by NabsKebabs

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3 hours ago, yonko said:

If you have failed and haven't been able to recreate anything more than 0% (by your own words), then why advice others how much it is possible to recreate Pep's tactic? 

If you say only 50-60% is possible then I would assume you have achieved that. Do you know what I mean? 

You post a lot informative analysis of Pep's tactic IRL, so which is that 50-60% that can be replicated and how do you know it can be done? Have you done it? You said 0%. Why? Where do you fail?

Pep's style is positional play, it is not tiki-taka. So if we can't recreate the positional play, there is not 50-60%. It is the whole 100%.

The truth is that we can recreate some element of his positional style but not the whole thing. The funny thing is we could if we still had wobble/wobble screen if you know or remember what those were. Cause we can position the players how we want in different areas of the field. But that ME is long gone now. 

You can “write in the paper” but it won’t work.
i agree with this,

i'm unhappy with how the team pressing in FM19

pressing & closing down is the big big issue in FM19,there is a bug there.
i hope they fix this issue 1st before we talk more about other thing

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This is how I would set up Man city from last season.

city1718.thumb.PNG.bdebdedc09f219373712c89175c2b738.PNG 

First choice team was:

Sane Aguero Sterling

D.Silva Fernandinho De Bruyne

Delph Stones Otamendi Walker

Ederson

De Bruyne is the hardest role to recreate and ideally I wouldn't use a playmaker for him because he isn't necessarily more of a focal point than silva. However, since Silva has dictate tempo trait, I believe they will see a similar amount of passes. The other option is to use De bruyne as a CM(s) and use a lot of PI's. As an RPM I've just used move into channels. 

The wide players are also a bit hard to recreate because they do attack space but if you give them attack duties they're likely going to be too isolated which won't suit the style of play so I think support duties are the best bet. Sane is a winger because he he has Delph as an IWB behind him. While Sterling is an IF because he was like a hybrid between a winger/IF. The idea is that since he's right footed, using him as an IF will reproduce that behaviour. He has PI stay wide (as that's what he did in the build up) while Walker behind him has PI stay narrower (as that's how he played in the build up). He would underlap at times and overlap at others so using the PI stay narrow should allow to underlap while his traits "get forward whenever possible" and "knock ball past opponent" should see him overlap at other times. 

The front 3 all mark tighter and tackle harder for the high block. Aguero is a false 9 allowing him to drop deep in the build up then come into the box late unmarked to score from cutbacks.

The interesting TI I think is "hold shape" in transition. This is because in most games, City don't look to break at pace but rather everyone holds position when they win the ball and that allows them to work the ball up the pitch and into the final third with short passes. It's used in conjuction with counter press TI because Guardiola want to press instantly in order to force a long ball and win back possession straight away.

This season, it's a lot different. Mendy is fit and plays as a wingback on attack. This has seen Sane spend a lot of time on the bench as since he likes to provide width on the left, he doesn't leave space for Mendy to go wide. De Bruyne is injured which means Bernado has mainly been starting in his place. I haven't seen enough though to be confident in recreating them this season...it looks like they've played a 4231 in a few games aswell. 

Edited by NabsKebabs

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Silva vs KDB heatmap last season

156221650_silvaheatmap.thumb.PNG.32cd1bdba83396da6d815e865510329a.PNGkdb.thumb.PNG.931dce43775e96b4abe03fded43e8f23.PNG

Interesting to note that Silva had a lot of touches in the box, yet De bruyne rarely enters the box. Hence I think Silva is a mezzala on attack and De Bruyne an RPM. That role allows De bruyne to wait on the edge of the area for long shot opportunities, as he does irl

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