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Neil Brock

Official Football Manager 2015 Feedback Thread 15.2.1

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Basically SI is likely pandering more to the casual gamer for the sake of sales...it's been coming for some time now unfortunately. I'm sure the attitude "this is a game afterall" has crept in

This is in the running for "Utterly nonsensical post of the thread" :D

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current engine has not good enough, poor decision on finishing, always blocked . Poor finishing , too many goals staright to the keeper. And Wing backs are not surging going forward anymore, big difference in movement compare to last engine . compelte wing backs are not as being involved in attacks as last engine, this is very frustrating.

Very fair point this. Noticed it massively. Any full back, wing back, seems to play the same and doesn't get forward as much. I have had forwards holding onto it and the wing backs just hang back, even if you use overlap. Very frustrating. My biggest bugbear actually is that many roles and duties seem to play the same and yet it wasn't the case IMO in an earlier patch.

In 15 the first patch roles and duties stood out as did a broad variety in play, goals, moves etc. Yes there are were problems but bar some poor defending and goalkeeping generally I thought the ME was ok. I didn't see too many goals from crosses for instance. I was scoring a few lovely goals from them and conceding a few but not a great deal. The variety of goals was good as well and some lovely long raking passes were being played.

Now I see a very one dimensional ME in many ways with more crossing and shooting opportunities it seems but less conversion rates. The heat map is now overloaded with crossing and shooting but deeper crosses and far more shots from outside the area and as I say roles and duties don't seem as clear-cut in their difference and yet I am still getting some pretty abysmal defending and goalkeeping errors,.

It's the thing that I have noticed in recent FM's, as the "bugs" get ironed out the ME seems to get more one dimensional and the variety stops.

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Apologies if this has been mentioned before. I know that the saving issue has raised it's head again in 15.2.1, but I just thought that i'd mention that I've watched the save file getting built in windows explorer and it seems to tick along quite nicely until it hits about 50Mb, at this point it hangs for ages and then ticks along until completion.

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Never EVER call me English again.

Unwitting In the Loop reference Dave? Surely not rattled are you? :p

Enough with the nonsense.

What needs to be adressed is the difficulty. Or rather, lack thereof.

People are winning the Champions League with Steaua in the first season, obliterating the premier league with Crystal Palace in the 1st season and scoring on the plus side of 100 goals every season.

My games have so many highlights that I simply opted to only view goals to cut down the time.

It kills immersion. No matter what anybody says it should never be possible to take a team that's bottom tier in the EPL to a win the first season and winning the Champions League the consequent year.

It's always been the issue with FM, 98% of players can take their team from the lower leagues and win the champions league in a completely unrealistic time-frame of a few years. This year it's just even worse.

If it's simply a result of making it easier for casuals, as to not have them lose faith very early on because of poor results..then I understand it from a business perspective. But at least give us difficulty sliders then.

If people weren't so flabbergasted and delighted just because they are winning, we would've had more people picking up on this and had it fixed earlier. But people are happy as long as they are winning all the time, despite slotting an unbelievable amount of goals and obliterating all teams 5-0 away from home. I for one play this game as an attempt at simulating real life football and implementing my own ideas, unfortunately my "ideas" seem a little too effective. And I don't work any fancy tactic set-ups whatsoever, just the apparently world beating 4-2-3-1 formation.

Another thing is the scouting of youth players and acquiring them...way too easy just like in all the other versions, but that issue can be saved for another day I guess.

In every single edition there has been a way to pretty much sweep all aside. The vast majority either didn't find this way, or didn't want to use it. There is no difference here. If everyone was obliterating everything in front of them all of the time, then we have a problem, but you have just as many people disagreeing that it's too easy as saying that it is. They're never going to add tedious, arcadey difficulty sliders, as that would go completely against the ethos of the game and probably push it more towards the "casual gamers" you seem to hate so much.

Personally, if I was finding the game oh so easy, I'd go for the biggest challenge I could, rather than deliberately using the "world-beating 4-2-3-1" or move down the leagues. There's plenty of ways to make things more challenging.

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The comments about the 4-2-3-1 Denmark and some players dominating so much with it (naturally also combined with a sufficient role and duty combination) make me wonder. I think it was brought up by Sussex Hammer already previously, but doing the opposite, applying a more cautious mentality and a corresponding basic shape -- depending on the formation purely clicking "defensive" invites all the pressure in the world. I've seen EPL sides giving Swiss second tier teams all the time and space in the world as teams already drop real deep and early when merely opting for a defensive mentality. From my experience, unless you want to get hammered with two dozen shots+ even against weaker teams, you occasionally are forced to off-set that by encouraging a higher d-line. In a sense it is then easier to produce a proactive tactics as is the opposite, as the latter appears very sensitive. Couple that with human players most traditionally always looking for a tactics that dominates statistically, namely position and shots (they'd rarely if ever set up a reactive tactics, never to rarely see a match in which they get few shots but still win and conclude that the AI would be better at finishing)... And I wonder about the exact settings an AI would pick if it sees itself as an underdog (likely similar settings that result in retreating very early and dropping all deep).

Naturally this would also affect the matches in which one sides sees that many shots. The one uses a tactics that is pushing forward, whilst the defensive ones are already fairly sensitive even when not seeing further encouragements to drop even deeper, etc. All I can tell 100% is that this used to be different for at least FM 2012, as even going contain and standing all off and dropping deep didn't invite this occasionally ridiculous pressure by definition (even though players weren't marked as efficiently due to no collision avoidance and the attackers being able to nullify their markers altogether off the ball on occasion). But then naturally tactical options have been tweaked and made more or less sensible throughout the years always. This wouldn't be a first. Such options appear very sensitive in this one though.

Regarding Sussex' and superfi's observation concerning overlaps, not seeing this personally. FBs or WBs pretty much get involved as soon as possible and make forward movements off the ball when this is applied, provided there is space in front of them anyways. This could however be also be influenced by personal positioning traits of the player you pick (such as a "never gets forward" or "arrives late..." PPM).

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I have no experience at all of the reported lack of overlaps. I've selected a Wing Back Support on either flank as they move up the flank as I want wide defenders to do.

If I use any of the Attack Duty wide defenders, they fly up the pitch far too quickly to suit my current patient playing style. I can't retain the ball if a potential outlet is 40 yards ahead of the ball carrier.

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The comments about the 4-2-3-1 Denmark and some players dominating so much with it (naturally also combined with a sufficient role and duty combination) make me wonder. I think it was brought up by Sussex Hammer already previously, but doing the opposite, applying a more cautious mentality and a corresponding basic shape -- depending on the formation purely clicking "defensive" invites all the pressure in the world. I've seen EPL sides giving Swiss second tier teams all the time and space in the world as teams already drop real deep and early when merely opting for a defensive mentality. From my experience, unless you want to get hammered with two dozen shots+ even against weaker teams, you occasionally are forced to off-set that by encouraging a higher d-line. In a sense it is then easier to produce a proactive tactics as is the opposite, as the latter appears very sensitive. Couple that with human players most traditionally always looking for a tactics that dominates statistically, namely position and shots (they'd rarely if ever set up a reactive tactics, never to rarely see a match in which they get few shots but still win and conclude that the AI would be better at finishing)... And I wonder about the exact settings an AI would pick if it sees itself as an underdog (likely similar settings that result in retreating very early and dropping all deep).

Naturally this would also affect the matches in which one sides sees that many shots. The one uses a tactics that is pushing forward, whilst the defensive ones are already fairly sensitive even when not seeing further encouragements to drop even deeper, etc. All I can tell 100% is that this used to be different for at least FM 2012, as even going contain and standing all off and dropping deep didn't invite this occasionally ridiculous pressure by definition (even though players weren't marked as efficiently due to no collision avoidance and the attackers being able to nullify their markers altogether off the ball on occasion). But then naturally tactical options have been tweaked and made more or less sensible throughout the years always. This wouldn't be a first. Such options appear very sensitive in this one though.

Regarding Sussex' and superfi's observation concerning overlaps, not seeing this personally. FBs or WBs pretty much get involved as soon as possible and make forward movements off the ball when this is applied, provided there is space in front of them anyways. This could however be also be influenced by personal positioning traits of the player you pick (such as a "never gets forward" or "arrives late..." PPM).

I won't pretend I'm a tactical expert, but in this version I've noticed that playing defensive or even counter mentality (regardless of roles and duties) gives your opposition all the time and space they need, you're under constant barrage of crosses, through balls and shots that you're bound to concede a few. This wasn't the case before as far as I remember, at least not to that extent.

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I often use a defensive mentality at home to a stronger opponent, and I've had a good bit of success with it. It's a strategy I first tried in FM14, and I've carried it on here. Of course, you need the right tactic/instructions to go with it, but it's a mentality that can work wonders at times. I destroyed Man City playing as Sunderland using this method, which restricted them to one shot on goal in the 90mins.

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You can easily play control mentality both at home and away in this and destroy the opposition. In other versions it was wiser to pick a counter/defensive for away games depending on who you were playing, in this version that's basically suicide

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The issue with the more defensive spectrum of the mentalities isn't the mentalities as such. They won't set anything fixed in stone, and their influence on shape is comparably minimal (for that it is firstly the basic defending formation on the tactics screen as well as the roles+duties that determine what comes off of it when in possession). This string of experimental results was also done employing a counter mentality:

YTuWwDa.jpg

However context is important, as is that chosing a mentality doesn't mean picking a fixed style. Firstly, this was Arsenal, a highly technical team in midfield, on occasion playing against teams that won't push that aggressively forward either as they see themselves as mild/big underdogs. Secondly, whilst by default even counter may make a side drop off comparably early, this was off-set a bit by encouraging to push higher up, and rather than clearing the ball from the back, which is the default, read the in-game text, the team was encouraged to play keep-ball by applying the corresponding team instructions (retain possession, etc. ). Furthermore none of the roles/duties that were picked had players venturing aggressively/Frequently forward from their 4-1-4-1 basic formation, but rather stay deep. In combination this meant matches in which on occasion there were far less than ten shots on goal - combined. Play would look like this, with only the occasional dribbling of the forward (no "dribble less" PI instructions applied) breaking such patterns, as here the case:

Naturally you can do the polar opposite. And naturally an opponent that is without the ball for the better part of every match can't ever shoot or cross much.

However, the thing is, to me anyways, that in such mentalities, on default settings, teams upon losing the ball drop off and retreat earlier than in previous iterations, so it seems to be the case to me. The human player notices, the AI likely not so much. Naturally you should be able to do a Chelski 2012: inviting all the pressure in the world on purpose, the barrage of crosses and shots that was mentioned by shirajzl. It just seems it appears far more readily done, as defensive options appear more sensitive and/or you have to think harder about employing your shape than in a proactive tactics.

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A few observations on recent comments.

Unfortunately the current Match Engine is funneling a lot of people in the same direction in terms of tactics.

Anyone diligently testing different tactical approaches will ultimately end up arriving at the same conclusion namely; attacking, high pressing, high line, aggressive tactics consistently yield better results than containing, countering, defensive set ups.

Even with weaker teams, even when playing away from home when such an approach really shouldn't work.

So you end up with a one dimensional, tactically barren game.

However, this idea that people are winning the Premier League with Crystal Palace in season 1 is a myth. One person on one forum claimed this, no one has been able to replicate this result independently.

Season 2 onwards might be a different matter as word quickly gets around the forums as to what great players can bought at a good price and if you're that way inclined you can just follow that advice and quickly build a very strong team. Not a lot you can do about that.

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T3Ozrl.jpg

a myth? really?

if SI thinks it's normal and realistic that's ok...maybe should change FM15 name to Fantasy Manager 2015. Congratulations!

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Yeah id have to agree. Setting up to try and contain, or even play on the counter is almost guaranteed to be a loss, or at the very least a humping where the strikers cant finish. It can be stupid at times. You cannot really set up a team to sit back, and hold its shape, as its relatively pointless, you WILL concede at some point no matter what. The only real option in FM15 is to attack, no matter what have a go.

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T3Ozrl.jpg

a myth? really?

if SI thinks it's normal and realistic that's ok...maybe should change FM15 name to Fantasy Manager 2015. Congratulations!

Are those your results or have you seen them elsewhere?

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A friend of mine did this without cheats. You believe if you want. Obviously he bought some new players but it's not acceptable to win the league.

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A friend of mine did this without cheats. You believe if you want.

If those aren't actually your results things get a little........hazy.....

Some earlier versions of the ME were exploitable but if that's a straight up result under 15.2 hats off to him :thup:

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Id still question it, i dont think its possible without some re-loading along the way.

It's possible if you get off to a good start, seeing as success in this game is 50% morale and 50% attacking tactics. Superb morale makes every team in this game play like Real Madrid on their best days

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what's the difference between my results or a friend results?? Crystal Palace won the Premier League! I would like to know the difference... and i won Champions League with Benfica, not a friend...

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No way :D funny how it's always "a friend" :rolleyes:

Yeah exactly its never the person making the claim, always a friend, or someone they know.

I still call bull on this, definitely someone who has re-loaded at least a few defeats along the way. I say this from experience of the game, you just dont get that lucky first season when all the clubs still have their top players.

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How can you prove if someone has reloaded or not? it's just impossible...

Which is exactly why we shouldn't trust or post those "achievements". There's a guy on the other forum who posted his tactic which allegedly won the PL with Crsytal P. in the first season, but no one else who have used it never managed to even get close to such amazing results.

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Yes i understand but it's not only about tactics, depends of some lucky, press conferences, pre and post-match talks, and player tranfers. Even with reloads it's not acceptable to have 97 goals with a team like Crystal Palace.

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Yes i understand but it's not only about tactics, depends of some lucky, press conferences, pre and post-match talks, and player tranfers. Even with reloads it's not acceptable to have 97 goals with a team like Crystal Palace.

Well that's not true. If you live by the maxim that any team can beat any other team on any given day, then by reloading certain matches, it's perfectly possible to win the league with a mediocre side in the first season.

Quite why anyone would want to go to those lengths given you get absolutely no reward for it is perhaps somewhat more of an issue.

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Well that's not true. If you live by the maxim that any team can beat any other team on any given day, then by reloading certain matches, it's perfectly possible to win the league with a mediocre side in the first season.

Quite why anyone would want to go to those lengths given you get absolutely no reward for it is perhaps somewhat more of an issue.

You don't have to reload with this FM to get a performance like that... This game is too easy even if you refuse to aknowledge.

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Even if i could prove with a save game without reloads nothing will happens...SI simply will ignore and continue defending their perfect game with realistic results and anyone who is posting unrealistic results compared to real life is just cheating. I'm losing my time posting here.

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Well no, provide a save game where someone wins the EPL with a small team, and they would look at it. The game itself tells you how many times you have loaded the game so it cannot be tricked. Give them your friends one, it should be easy enough to get a hold off, if he has not re-loaded at all SI will certainly want to look at his game and find out what went wrong.

Should be a simple thing for you to provide, yes?

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Even if i could prove with a save game without reloads nothing will happens...SI simply will ignore and continue defending their perfect game without lack of realism. I'm losing my time posting here.

Why don't you just upload a save to "prove" things either way? Saves games contain an internal count of the number of times the game was saved, including ones that aren't automatically triggered by rolling auto-saves. SI could check it, confirm the number of times that game was saved, and then we can all move onto another subject.

I do love this thread. A week ago the topic was how the ME clearly favours the AI and it's impossible to win some matches, this week it is all far too easy and you need to play nonsensical systems to make it harder :D

EDIT - bloody milnerpoint :mad::)

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Yes i can do this. but it's not easy to complete a season without turn off laptop or without crash dumps but i can try. :) Winning the Champions league with Benfica counts or need i to win Premier League with Hull City?

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Yes i can do this. but it's not easy to complete a season without turn off laptop or without crash dumps but i can try. :)

We're not asking you to do it, we're asking you to get your friends save game so it can be uploaded and SI can check out how he was able to win the EPL first season with such a poor team.

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That is all very nice and true, but for realism's sake, you'd need a proper 3D match experience, not dots seen from bird's eye view. Graphics during the match, in this case, add to the realism, so yes, a realistic 3D is something SI Games should be striving for. That said, anyone is free to play their game any way they want :)

LOL 3D match engine has nothing to do with 'realism', in fact you can play the game with no graphics at all.

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Yes i can do this. but it's not easy to complete a season without turn off laptop or without crash dumps but i can try. :) Winning the Champions league with Benfica counts or need i to win Premier League with Hull City?

The game probably also records crashdumps, so no excuses.

It may be easy to win the EPL with a bad team if you don't care about finances, use exploitative downloaded tactics, sign recommended player after looking at the editor or reading the good players forum here and reloading to stop bad results, bad injuries or just see what gets you the best response with press conferences and player interaction.

It's not so easy if you want to play a long term game with tactics you have developed on your own with input/tips from the tactics forum that do not exploit issues with the ME, sign players only your scout recommends or those you ask for scouting reports and care enough for the club not to go overboard with wages and signings.

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Saving the game only one time is the only way to prove you can't cheat.

Not true. Each time the games is saved, a small entry is made on the save game file to capture that. Similarly, every time any save / reload activity occurs, a small entry is made into the file as it allows SI to troubleshoot any causes of crash dumps etc.

So, if a save game is uploaded, SI can access this information to see if a match on a specific date has been played a number of times.

EDIT - and now spankie is raining on my parade :(

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30 time reload, and contrary to this guy, I can win. :-P

Haven't looked at the details of the formations and instructions, but in the sub-forum in which the plug'n'play tactics are shared, there appear to be a number that when approached with the right type of players at least, massively outperform anything the AI has on offer. Haven't seen screenshots of somebody getting Crystal Palace to be Champions Of Engerland by 2015, but West Brom into the CL, for instance, and generally a huge amount of goals in general with a number of teams. For FM 2014 there was an issue if you fielded three shadow strikers I think, not sure but it appeared the defending mechanism and/or the AI not reacting to it proved difficult as the runs from deep of three players into the box weren't properly picked up or something.

Couple that with the possibility of editing and you wouldn't need a save exploit. It is clear to assume, no matter the run though, that if this happened for real, it is down to an exploit. Regardless of the many claims of the game being either "Moral Management 2015", "Tactical Manager 2015", "Team Talk Manager 2015" or whatever, a player's attributes and thus a squad's ability has always been a huge factor, the biggest of all, as in real football, unless you majorly screw a tactics up and break your team's shape when defending or isolate your forwards/encourage one-dimensional play when attacking. Which would be the opposite of an exploit tactics that will get you goals no matter what due to a weak area in the game or AI somewhere -- you will lose points and concede goals no matter the player quality in such an instance, and generally underperform. To a certain extent really good players can still make up for that to a degree, the many successful runs of Hazard can and as evident by the game's stats will open s pace all by itself, even if he has no support, and if someone such as Kroos is out of passing lanes, he may hit home a pot shot far more likely than a lesser player.

That a team hugely overperforms largely due to tactics is becoming increasingly a thing of the past too, as football is a fully globalized sports and major surprises are non-existent in an age where each game is being broadcasted everywhere. I think the game reflects that all pretty reasonablish. Naturally when morale is all down this ability gets a hit too, and is boosted (a tad) when it's all high and flying, but the basis is always that ability as edited into the db. What happens after season one is another matter altogether due to transfers. But squad quality is of paramount importance, just look at the many successful runs, headers, key passes, assists, interceptions, etc. a better player on average generally tends to make compared to a weaker one.

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LOL 3D match engine has nothing to do with 'realism', in fact you can play the game with no graphics at all.

Sure. That's why you don't watch football on TV, you just listen to it on radio? Or even better, read about it in the newspapers tomorrow, where all you want to see is stats and the score, nothing else? Gimme a break.

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There are some tactics out there that are set up to constantly bombard the opposition with attacks, constantly keeping up the pressure and can dominate most matches. I don't understand what is the big deal about CP winning the league. Go look in the tactics forums and you will see the best tactic makers use teams like West Ham, Hull, etc to show off their tactics and win the league. If someone swapped lets say Accrington Stanley into the PL in the first season and won it, then yes, there is probably something exploitable. But just because a handful of people won the league with small clubs in the 1st season doesn't mean the ME is too easy. Some people might not find it fun to use a single tactic for the entire game.

I do agree with milnerpoint about how defensive setups are generally ineffective; I'd like to see a future ME where defensive tactics can also have merit, even if most of the results are 0-0 bore draws or 1-0 close games. I find this nearly impossible at the moment because either the game is biased towards attacking football, or the CPU AI is too attack-minded. The only time they would ever pull back is when they are like 3 goals up, otherwise, no matter what the opponent or context of the match, they will try to stage a comeback and keep attacking. This is part of the reason why we see matches with 20+ shots for both sides, its open ended football.

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Sure. That's why you don't watch football on TV, you just listen to it on radio? Or even better, read about it in the newspapers tomorrow, where all you want to see is stats and the score, nothing else? Gimme a break.

I hate to admit this to you...but...I don't have Sky Sports :o I know, I know, I'm totally deficient, because I can't watch every football game that I'm interested in. You might want to sit down, but I also listen to some games on the radio, and sometimes I don't even listen to them at all, and just find out what happens the next day.

I know you'll be absolutely raging at this, but I'm sure there's a number you can call or something, they might be able to help. You'll get through this though, I have faith.

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30 time reload, and contrary to this guy, I can win. :-P

Haven't looked at the details of the formations and instructions, but in the sub-forum in which the plug'n'play tactics are shared, there appear to be a number that when approached with the right type of players at least, massively outperform anything the AI has on offer. Haven't seen screenshots of somebody getting Crystal Palace to be Champions Of Engerland by 2015, but West Brom into the CL, for instance. For FM 2014 there was an issue if you fielded three shadow strikers I think, not sure but it appeared the defending mechanism and/or the AI not reacting to it proved difficult as the runs from deep of three players into the box weren't properly picked up or something.

Couple that with the possibility of editing and you wouldn't need a save exploit. It is clear to assume, no matter the run though, that if this happened for real, it is down to an exploit. Regardless of the many claims of the game being either "Moral Management 2015", "Tactical Manager 2015" or whatever, a player's attributes and thus a squad's ability has always been a huge factor, as in real football, unless you majorly screw a tactics up and break your team's shape when defending or isolate your forwards/encourage one-dimensional play when attacking. Which would be the opposite of an exploit tactics that will get you goals no matter what due to a weak area in the game or AI somewhere -- you will lose points and concede goals no matter the player quality in such an instance, and generally underperform.

That a team hugely overperforms largely due to tactics is becoming increasingly a thing of the past too, as football is a fully globalized sports and major surprises are non-existent in an age where each game is being broadcasted everywhere. I think the game reflects that all pretty reasonablish. Naturally when morale is all down this ability gets a hit too, and is boosted (a tad) when it's all high and flying, but the basis is always that ability as edited into the db. What happens after season one is another matter altogether due to transfers. But squad quality is of paramount importance, just look at the many successful runs, headers, key passes, assists, interceptions, etc. a better player on average generally tends to make compared to a weaker one.

The West Brom result/tactic is mine.

I haven't purchased the editor, used the original squad and will happily upload the save if need be to confirm i didn't reload.

Point is, 74 points & 4th with West Brom is at the upper end of what should be achievable but its nowhere near the Crystal Palace result of 101 points and winning the league as posted above.

West Brom are a mid table team (predicted 11th) not relegation candidates, look at how West Ham are performing this season in IRL.

So 7 places higher than predicted is solid over achievement without entering into the realms of fantasy as far as i'm concerned.

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You don't have to reload with this FM to get a performance like that... This game is too easy even if you refuse to aknowledge.

I've already posted how I think this year's game is a lot easier than the previous two versions, so a bit of a swing and a miss there I'm afraid.

But it's not so easy as to be able to pilot Crystal Palace to the title (and let's not forget, the chap won all the cups too) with over 100 points in the first season. There's no bones about it, either there's been lots of editing going on, and/or there's been several reloads alongside some downloaded super-tactic.

If it transpires that it was all done legitimately, then SI have a bit of an issue on their hands here.

I suspect, however, that it'll never be proved one way or the other.

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The West Brom result/tactic is mine.

I haven't purchased the editor, used the original squad and will happily upload the save if need be to confirm i didn't reload.

Point is, 74 points & 4th with West Brom is at the upper end of what should be achievable but its nowhere near the Crystal Palace result of 101 points and winning the league as posted above.

West Brom are a mid table team (predicted 11th) not relegation candidates, look at how West Ham are performing this season in IRL.

So 7 places higher than predicted is solid over achievement without entering into the realms of fantasy as far as i'm concerned.

Yeah id say this was spot on. 4th with West Brom should be the top end of what is possible, its a long shot, but with enough luck its possible, i've also read enough of your posts and tactics to trust your not out there to cheat the game.

Now the Palace team is worse in FM than the West Brom one, so there is almost no way at all anyone could win the league with 100 points AND both cups. No way. I've played FM long enough to know it just doesnt work like that.

If im wrong then SI have a big issue on their hands with the game, imo.

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I hate to admit this to you...but...I don't have Sky Sports :o I know, I know, I'm totally deficient, because I can't watch every football game that I'm interested in. You might want to sit down, but I also listen to some games on the radio, and sometimes I don't even listen to them at all, and just find out what happens the next day.

I know you'll be absolutely raging at this, but I'm sure there's a number you can call or something, they might be able to help. You'll get through this though, I have faith.

Passive aggressive much? The most important part of Football Manager is the match day, unless I got something wrong? Everything else goes to waste if you just skip that part, IMHO. So yes, having a good 3D engine for the match day does improve realism and fun :)

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Passive aggressive much? The most important part of Football Manager is the match day, unless I got something wrong? Everything else goes to waste if you just skip that part, IMHO. So yes, having a good 3D engine for the match day does improve realism and fun :)

Not really. For me the games are just the end product of everything else i do. Games probably get the least attention compared to the rest of the game, but i come from the older generation when there was no 3d to watch, so you made sure everything else was right so when it came to games you were more confident.

Watching the 3d in FM is not vital to playing it, im blasting through seasons right now having gone back to txt only with a big screen full of statistics and im actually enjoying it more, i have the goal replys only on 3D so i can see them but outwith that i dont really care too much. I can tell by the stats whats working and whats not and can adjust anything from there.

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Not really. For me the games are just the end product of everything else i do. Games probably get the least attention compared to the rest of the game, but i come from the older generation when there was no 3d to watch, so you made sure everything else was right so when it came to games you were more confident.

Watching the 3d in FM is not vital to playing it, im blasting through seasons right now having gone back to txt only with a big screen full of statistics and im actually enjoying it more, i have the goal replys only on 3D so i can see them but outwith that i dont really care too much. I can tell by the stats whats working and whats not and can adjust anything from there.

Well, then, all this talk about the match engine is pointless, if you don't even bother to look at it... To me, it's the most important part. Everything else - training, scouting, youth development, press conferences blablabla - it's all secondary, the match is what it is all about, and I want that part to be as good as possible.

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Yes I have just had the same issue. Me as Liverpool v Barcelona in the champions league final, the fixture date was 02/06 (year 2017). Messi and Neymar were both off on the south American championship thing, ok I had Coutinho and Lucas there as well but still felt a little odd, I did win it 3-2 but still feel a little of the shine was gone from the game.

Yeah man I played against Barcelona in the champ league final and the game was soooo bad (I had 2 subs on the bench and one was a keeper... I lost) that I turned it onto commentary only. just wanted it to end... did NOT feel like a champ league final. Unfortunately it looks like this is an issue with games carried over from beta which is a real problem since I am now in the year 2025 and cant imagine starting a new game all over again.

I really hope there is some kind of workaround or fix that can be applied SI???

I know I should wait till the game is fully released before starting main save (so my bad) but we are told that only database changes are not save game compatible (and I did not realise this meant competition fixture dates as well). THIS needs to be made clearer (unless I missed it somewhere).

Anyway I guess I will carry in till the end of this season and see what happens with the 2026 champ league final. If the problem occurs once wvery 3/4 years thats not too bad but if its every year I think that pretty much breaks the game for me (and considering I wont be starting a new game) which is a shame as (other than team selection screen) I have been quite impressed with this FM.

Lesson learned dont buy the BETA... OR have the discipline to wait for the final game before starting main save (although I doubt it lol)

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