Jambo98 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 So this was an idea floating around in my head for ages, before i could be ar$ed to write it down. Its not an original idea, nor do i claim its mine....... Ages ago, maybe FM12, there was a thread here which was a half tactical discussion and half challenge. It was essentially an experiment to prove that with the right management, you could succeed with any of the FM default "formations". The concept was, a single team was picked (i remember it was Napoli), and forum users then "signed up" to start a single season save as this team, and each user was given one of the default FM tactics (picked at random by the OP) and they had to play a single season and see how much success they could bring using only that formation. There were basic restrictions around signings, to make sure it was somewhat baselined, and other than the "formation" being set, users could set any other tactical options they wanted. It was really quite an interesting and fascinating thread and brought out some great discussions about how to use different options to get the best out of a shape. So i have been reading a lot of the recent tactical threads on here, things like how important it is to have an approach not a tactic, the difference that roles and duties can make as opposed to just a basic shape, the role of things like PPM's, set pieces (ok, so i wrote that one myself, less than sucessfully, but you get the idea). It strikes me that with the new options and roles open to us on FM14, it would be fascinating to do this again. I would see it far more as a tactical experiment and discussion as opposed to a "challenge" in the sense of the challenges forum, hence thought i would try posting it here! Few basic things i would suggest we would want to set out: General Everyone has to use the same database (14.3 with no database edits) Other add ons are fine - its only important that the starting squads are the same for everyone Past experience the same for everyone - Probably "international experience" for everyone Everyone has to use the same starting team - We would agree in advance, and if it was popular maybe run 2 versions with different teams Transfers limited to say 2 permanent signings, one loan signing (a bit arbitrary, but its how i vaguely remember the original thread) Tactics Each user who wants to take part gets given one of the default formations - we can either do it via a random generator on Excel or just on first come first serve choice basis! The formation (that is to say the player slots on the pitch), must not be changed in anway. So if you get 5 - 4 - 1 you must keep a flat back 5, a flat midfield 4 and a single striker in the central slow. Any other tactical options can be customised - This is the essence of the experiment - using roles, duties, team and player instructions, you can try to take a basic shape and make it function in different ways Teams I would say the idea is to pick a "good" but not "top" team, and preferably one which is somewhat versatile. Personally i would limit it to either Italy, Spain or Germany for no other reason than they are good balance league, and the premiership is a bit to close to home and well known (lots of us probably support prem teams). Again, this is totally arbitrary on my part...... In the interest of picking a team with the right level, i would say an expectation of between 4th and 6th at the start of the season, i recon that gives us: Roma Inter Fiorentina Valencia Athletic Bilboa Sevilla Leverkusen Wolfsburg Stuttgart Bear in mind the concept would be to at least somewhat baseline this (I dont see it as a challenge - there will be no league tables or points systems), but to see the differences, i think using the same team is essential. So we would need to agree on one team. This could easily fall flat on its arse, and be a 2 post wonder which drops to the bottom of the forum like a stone, but you never know, i think there could be fun and learnings to be found If you interested, post a reply with views on the guidelines and suggestions around which team would be best to use for this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo98 Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 ***edited - loads of people signed up,, meaning i had to get off my arse and create a list :/ here it is........**** Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo98 Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 and a great start......typo in the thread title............. If a mod could change "if" to "is" that would erm, make more sense.............details man, details....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD nawrat Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Interesting idea. Sign me up. Only one gripe - if you're going to do this make sure the team you select is highly accessible. No point giving me a 352 when my best players are fullbacks, I only have 3 CBs and I have one decent striker and nothing else. Whichever team is select should be good all over the pitch and capable of playing a wealth of formations without much problem(s). Really not sure of any of the 9 OP teams tbh though. I'll use whatever others agree on, just want to see how this goes and would be cool to take part at the same time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebird123 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I'd defiantly give this a go. Very interesting experiment Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 and a great start......typo in the thread title.............If a mod could change "if" to "is" that would erm, make more sense.............details man, details....... Sorted Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
genesimmons Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Also up for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo98 Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Cool...........so i guess gotta kinda settle on a team for this? Or do we allow a couple of different teams? The essence of it is to see if you can make the shape work, and the same team part is a nice to have? I was thinking a team which is in the Europa league would be good - add an extra element to the quest for single season success? At the moment one which fits the bill is Valencia - Nice versatile squad, good expectations but not top 3. Only down side is the huge challenge in spain of taking on the big 2. IF we want to go with Italy, suggestion is Fiorentina? Quite versatile again, in europe, and again the expectations about right. Will never get a squad which gives you 2 natural players for every position, in every possible formation - You would have to adapt and re-train and use players in positions where they might not be natural, but can fulfil a role. The 3 total signings gives good flexibility as well. Any thoughts on those 2 options, or offer up others. Ive built a quick random generator, but one other question - Should we exclude the "big 3" formations - 442, 4231 and 451 (thats what the game calls it - its the much used 4 1 2 2 1). Thinknig being that a) we are never likely to get 24 people try this anyway, and b) these are pretty mainstream and loads of people have used them? Thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marabak Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I'd be quite keen on something like this, particularly as I have two weeks forced annual leave at the moment Also, as I am not quite a tactical genius yet, it would probably further my understanding somewhat I'd be keener on a non-Spain team as I manage in there quite often, so Fiorentina would get my vote I think. But I am obviously happy to go with whatever we end up with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark. Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Keen for this. I too think Fiorentina could be a good nudge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeKay Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Interesting idea. You can count me in, i'll happly take a formation that no one wants. Cool...........so i guess gotta kinda settle on a team for this? Or do we allow a couple of different teams? The essence of it is to see if you can make the shape work, and the same team part is a nice to have? Not too bother; the same team for everyone should be the leveller. Will never get a squad which gives you 2 natural players for every position, in every possible formation - You would have to adapt and re-train and use players in positions where they might not be natural, but can fulfil a role. The 3 total signings gives good flexibility as well. Have you consider having the "Disable First Window Transfer Budget " option at the start instead of limiting transfers? Think it would put more emphasis on the "assigned" tactic rather than squad building. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo98 Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Right ok, enough interest to make it worthwhile Lets just settle on Fiorentina as the team for this experiment. If it turns out to be a pain using them for any reason we can always mirror my own FM careers, and give up and start again somewhere else.......... To recap on the rules. 14.3 Database only with no other DB updates (addons like facepacks or any of that jazz is fine) Must run Italian Leagues down to lowest level Can run any other leagues if you choose Can run any DB size you choose (i dont think it will make that much of a material difference to the Europa cup) Manage experience - International footballer (makes it a bit more pure tactics and marginally less morale based) Maximum of 2 permanent signings and 1 loan signing allowed - These can be anytime (eg pre-season or mid season) and co-ownership deal counts as a permanent transfer No limits on transfers/loans out You will be given a formation, chosen at random by my mystical machine (eg, a bit of VBA code.......) you must stick to that formation - you cannot move any of the players within the formation "slots" on the pitch You can change anything else - team and player settings, roles, duties etc One season only experiment, although you can repeat if you like from the start Its not about who does best, but would be good to post about successes and end season results More importantly, would like people to post how they go about using their given tactic - lets make it a discussion. If everyone is happy with that, i will stick each of your usernames into the mad machine thing later this evening and do a post of what formation it fires out. If anyone really isnt happy.........well.......aye. Hope it turns out to be worthwhile - Its not a contest or challenge so not after screenshots of managers profiles etc - i trust everyone! However feel free to post screenies of how your tactics set up, and any analysis or observations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeKay Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Happy. Mystical Machine? Very Sci-fi. I was expecting a draw of scrap paper from a tombola. Eagerly awaitng the draw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_fenton Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I'd like to give it a go too, probably a 4-2-4 or something... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo98 Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Righto, i used the mystical machine (Just some VBA code to pick a random formation from the list, which excludes 442, 4231). The results are: JDownie - 4 - 6 - 0 Bluebird 123 - 3 - 5- 2 GeneSimmons - 4 - 3 - 3 Marabak - 5 - 4 - 1 Mark. - 3 - 4 - 2 - 1 DM Peekay - 3 - 2 - 3 - 2 M_Fenton - 3 - 3 - 2 - 2 Jambo 98 - 4 - 3 -2 - 1 So a real mix. I would have fancied a crack at one of the 3 at the back myself, but i take what the random generator gives me! We have a couple of sweeper/Libero set ups, a mega defensive (at first glance) 541 and a very funky looking 3 4 2 1 which has wing backs and wingers (Shades of Chile under Bielsa). Anyone not want to start with there randomly allocated formation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeKay Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Let me just confirm that its the 3-2-3-2 from the Default list so it would be: --ST--ST-- ----AM----- --MC--MC-- WB------WB --DC--DC-- ----SW----- Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo98 Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Yup all of these are the exact ones from the default - So that is how it should look. Interesting challenge to make that work. At least Fiorentina have one of the very few properly classy Sweepers in the game. Rodriguez is natural in that role, and very few are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBurns Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Count me in as well! Looking forward to getting my formation! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeKay Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Yes, Rodriguez has saved my bacon, Sweeper is not something I've used much before but I'm no stranger to 3 at the back. However, no natural right wingbacks looks could be an issue. Glad to have 2 striker formation, Team Reports suggest that's where the quality looks to be but JDownie will need to get creative with the 4-6-0. What are your initial thoughts on getting the Christmas Tree? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3lby Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I'd like to give this a go if its not too late Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo98 Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Yes, Rodriguez has saved my bacon, Sweeper is not something I've used much before but I'm no stranger to 3 at the back. However, no natural right wingbacks looks could be an issue.Glad to have 2 striker formation, Team Reports suggest that's where the quality looks to be but JDownie will need to get creative with the 4-6-0. What are your initial thoughts on getting the Christmas Tree? I have actually had a short save in the past with Fiorentina with wingbacks. Tomovic did a solid job for me if you are looking for a more defensive type wingback. However the stand out in that role is Cuadrado - He is Competent there in terms of positional, and although he is a bit lacking in one or defensive stats, he can tackle and is great going forward. I even used Joaquin as a CWB and had some decent results. For me the christmas tree is interesting, Back on FM12 i created this exact formation with great success. It won me back to back promotions with Sheff Wed, with the legendary Fabian Brandy up top......... With Fiorentina its reasonably well set up. Rossi looks a great candidate for SS in one of the AM slots, Aquilani ideal to play in the other as a more deep dropping playmaker (probably AM(s)). Wide men i can vary it, with 2 out and out winger types on the left (Joaquin and Cuardado) and Illic on the left can tuck in much more. The obvious weakness of this formation lies in the centre of midfield. No one in the DM strata, and only one in the CM strata. In many ways this is exactly what id love to use this experiment to do - find a way to make this function. My idea is one of the WM will tuck in a lot, one of the AM will drop in a lot, and we that gives us enough cover in the middle. The incutting WM also allows for a full back to overlap and Pasquale is pretty good for that. Signings wise, i used up my loan on getting Simone Pepe in from Juve. He is a hard worker who can cover the LM slot with Illic. Pepe is right footed so will naturally look to cut in, and he is also a good option as a defensive winger if i decide to go that way. Havent made a perm signing yet. Thinking of going for a natural right back, but with less than £6million to spend not going to get a top class one. I also would use the second one to get some cover in for Rossi, who is injury prone. Mati Fernandez gets plucked from the reserves to cover Aquilani and Wolaski and Rebic in the reserves also provide decent back up. The biggest quandry for my formation, and probably for anyone, is what on earth to do with Gomez. His stats are very all over the place, and given his price tag and huge salary, have to think you want to fit him in somewhere. With my formation, i might alternate him and Matri, both are more suited to advanced forward roles, and normally the Xmas tree you would want a DLF or TM in that slot. Thats a challenge for me to ponder on! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo98 Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 So the random formation generator does its thing for the 2 new-comers (until we run out of formations, its never to late to join, no time limit) DBurns - 4 -1 - 4 - 1 S3lby - 3 - 4 - 3 Diamond 2 very contrasting formations there chaps........one that looks defensive at first glance, but can be a great "breaking" formation. 3 4 3 diamond is about as attacking as it gets! Thats gotta be attack or die.......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3lby Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Haha! I was hoping for a unique formation to make it interesting. Safe to say I got my wish This should be fun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marabak Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I'm happy tinkering with a 541, I'll start the save in a second, but I probably won't get around to doing anything meaningful until tomorrow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD nawrat Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 460? Sah-weet. I wasn't planning on playing FM for a few days because I wasn't expecting this to start any time soon but hey ho, I'll go for it now. Loading up now. Expect some post(s) detailing set-up. Not actually sure what a 460 is in FM terms... 2DMs and 4AMs (two wingers, 2 AMCs?) or 1DM, 2MCs and 3AMs (two wingers 1AMC)... I'll check shortly...either way, happy to have the formation. Not got much/any use for Mario Gomez now but hey ho. Will try to find some way to fit him in Glad to have 2 striker formation, Team Reports suggest that's where the quality looks to be but JDownie will need to get creative with the 4-6-0. Indeed. Could be tough, but with Rossi capable of playing in AMC he'll make a great Secondary Striker and should hopefully destroy teams from deeper positions. Might have to sign a good rotation option because I don't think any of the other strikers are going to be good shouts dropping into the AM strata (certainly wouldn't trust Gomez there). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider Ed Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I would like to take part if thats OK. Despite having played this game for years, tactics is definatly my biggest weakness, hence why im always reading threads on here. This will help me long term if someone can pick apart the way I look at tactics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebird123 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Never really tried 3-5-2 before so this'll make it even harder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo98 Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 Sure cider ed, anyone can have a go. The machine did its thing Cider Ed - 4 - 3 - 1 - 2 Another quite attacking one there, and quite often seen in Italy. Good luck and most of all its just about a bit of learning and sharing thoughts and what works etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD nawrat Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Okay dokay. Loaded up, had a quick look. Team isn't as suited to this as I initially thought. No good left wingers, no proper right backs, three class strikers but none capable of playing AMC (although Rossi is almost accomplished so that's okay). So I've identified my weak spots here... RB - Tomovic will make a good defensive fullback but isn't great going forward. Decent choice, but need a better option or at least a decent back-up/rotation option. AML - Ante Rebic is average and Matos can probably a do job on that side, but otherwise the position is weak. I want to play with this player cutting in. Nobody really capable of doing that to success... Vargas will be playing LB as a back-up to Pasqual. DM - Ambrosini makes for a great Anchor (surprisingly) but there's nobody else capable of playing the role. I need to sign someone who can back Ambrosini up or provide competition. SS - Secondary Striker. Need someone to play the role. Guiseppe Rossi will be the starter but he's both injury prone and inconsistent from previous games I've managed him. Gomez isn't capable and neither is Matri (LOAN - TERMINATED ). Trawled the youths and reserves and Matias Fernandez will make for a good back-up here...good player, off the transfer list and into the first team. Might not be enough but I think the above three positions are vital to fix and due to the three player limit we have I won't be able to bring in a new striker. Gomez will just need to be a decent back-up with any luck. Transfers out - plenty to be had here. Diakite, Zanon, Rosati, Matri, Anderson... all terminated. Frees up a whopping 168k per week! Brought in Daniel Kofi Agyei who is actually co-owned by us already. Not sure what this means for my signing restrictions but he's coming back anyway (hopefully). Will provide much needed cover for Ambrosini Lucas Ocampos in on loan from Monaco for AML (hopefully) and Juanfran from Atletico Madrid for competition at RB (hopefully). Leaves my team pretty much perfect for what I'm after...maybe just a SS in but I don't think I'm allowed so I'll make do with Gomez, Rossi and Fernandez for the position...that should be enough anyway come to think of it Tactics to come soon (not 100% sure how I want to play so I'll decide that pre-season). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
genesimmons Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I have no idea how to make a 4-3-3! BTW, JDownie, will you try Cuadrado on the right back? I really like him in real life. I also like Tomovic (both in game, and in real life), but Cuadrado is quality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinsFan86 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Sign me up for this too. Should be fun/interesting/challenging! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD nawrat Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I have no idea how to make a 4-3-3! BTW, JDownie, will you try Cuadrado on the right back? I really like him in real life. I also like Tomovic (both in game, and in real life), but Cuadrado is quality. I contemplated playing him at RB but he's got pretty poor Teamwork, Positioning and Marking - he's also very weak. He will rotate with Joaquin at AMR as a Winger/Attack. Brought in more than I said I would - Timo Horn is being signed but I'm loaning him back to Koln for the season... I think I'll play this save for a few seasons after the first initial year. Not going to sign anymore I don't think and if I do they'll likely be youths so I'm not going to break the rules too much or an abnormal amount...Timo Horn won't even have an affect on the tactics anyway since he's going to be loaned back to Koln for a year Tactics aren't panning out as I had planned so I'm not going to post them yet...want to make sure I get the team performing right first. e: Also Cuadrado is out for 4-5 months now with a torn hamstring Matos will rotate with Joaquin now I guess, with Rebic and Ocampos on AML. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD nawrat Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Gotten to the first of September and things are... eh, interesting. Formation is definitely important I don't really know how to play these players in this formation and that's making life a bit difficult. Borja Valero is probably the best player in my team and there's nowhere for him to play. Just slotting him in whenever/wherever I can. But he's injured for a few games so it's giving me time to see if there's anyone who should be dropped for Valero to come in when he returns. Wingers aren't working, central players aren't working (at all). No idea how to set up my playmaker alongside the SS... struggling big time. But even if I could choose my formation I wouldn't know how to set them up I've changed this a lot, you should know. I went from Fluid/Balanced to Rigid/Control. I had an Enganche and the Winger was Support. Anchor Man changed to DM/D. Probably other changes too... just trying to find a balance but it's not working. We're defending very well and creating a lot of chances but we're not scoring and the chances aren't falling to the right players (LB has had more chances than the SS...even if the SS has two goals). Yielding decent results though Four clean sheets is tasty. Biggest issue there for me is probably that we've yet to score in the first 45 minutes of a game. When we do it'll be a relief Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I'd used a 4-6-0 on one of the pre 14.3 MEs and it worked a treat, but seems to have run out of steam now. With two DMs, you can be very ballsy with your full backs and cast aside the usual "rules" and set them both to Attack Duties. I had success with an Enganche instructed to Close Down More - he ended up leading the line and scoring goals. I also tended to not use a Winger out wide, and used an AP instead. I found that a Winger was a bit one-dimensional and with withdrawn "strikers", it hindered the natural game of a Winger to have to wait for the AMC line players to advance and wait for a cross. However, that was all pre 14.3..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soldatino Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 This seems like nice idea, what formations haven't been assigned yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdalglish Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Pretty cool idea...I'd be more interested in an experiment where everyone uses the same formation and we change the combination of mentality and fluidity.. Eg 451...attacking and rigid, control and balanced, counter and fluid etc...I think this has more importance in this years fm than formations...if anyone wants to run this alongside this thread I'd be interested... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeKay Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 (3-2-3-2) It would probably a good idea to mark the post with the formation being used? Otherwise it could get confusing. Completed the first Pre-season game last night. I will watching the first few games on full so will be a little slow to get going but my team wasn't. Torhout (who?) started with a 442 but went through a number of formation until settling with a 33211, probably the right choice to contain my 3232. I've never seen the AI panic that much before; I'm guessing I took him by surprise. It could have been worst for them as I was using Standard Mentality and I sub in the second team at half time. Know it's only pre-season but I rarely score double digits. The tactic wasn't without problems, the gap between the central midfield and the AMC (Ilicic) was large but when he scores 4 goal I'm not sure if I should try to fix it. I'll post up the tactic once I'm happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider Ed Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Sure cider ed, anyone can have a go. The machine did its thing Cider Ed - 4 - 3 - 1 - 2 Another quite attacking one there, and quite often seen in Italy. Good luck and most of all its just about a bit of learning and sharing thoughts and what works etc Nice one. I will get the game cracking now. Before I even look at my squad I know I will have a few decisions to make with Vargas, Joaquin and Cuadrado. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powello Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I am interested in this, sign me up if available Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider Ed Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 (4-3-1-2) Ive come accross my first real problem in pre-season. Im struggling to create any chances against the 4-5-1 formation with 2 DM's. Ive played Frankfurt and Mainz and they have both played this formation. Against Mainz I played Cuadrado and Vargas as complete wing backs and they got forward nicely but when the crossed from good positions the middle was far too crowded. What I would normally do is play a couple of advanced wingers and try to get the ball to them quickly but I cand do that in the 4-3-1-2. Anybody got any tips? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoChance Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 If you're still taking sign ups, count me in. I tend to tailor my formation to counter my opponent each match, so it will be interesting to stick to a single formation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marabak Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 541 Well, I haven't got very far into this yet, but I will post my first impressions. I am far from an expert at this though, so my judgement might be a little flawed I've never used 541, but on first looks it is a very defensive formation. Luckily, Fiorentina have a large number of centrebacks and some reasonable strength in centre midfield. I feel having three top class strikers is a little wasted on a single striker formation however. There is also a lack of strength at full back. One of the flaws of this formation is the lack of support in and around the single striker so I need to make sure that the midfield are not shy in getting forward. My initial thoughts involve having two complete wingbacks as 3 CB should be able to copy defensively. This means that I don't need to use wingers, so I'll go for some sort of WM/CM combination in the middle of the park (currentlt WM(S) CM(A) CM(D) WM(A)) with some PIs for my WM to sit narrower and my CM(A) to get further forward. Upfront, I've decided to start with a DLF to try and minimise the gap between Attack and Midfield. I don't see the point in hoofing the ball up to a lone front man, so I am hoping that my team can keep the ball and work it up the pitch. Looking at the Team Comparison Report, Fiorentinas main strengths lie in good passing and "footballing aethetics" based attributes, but lack in teamwork and workrate, therefore I don't expect my team to be blistering around the park and I am much happier for them to build up play slowly. First game was a friendly I arranged against Crystal Palace, a comfortable 2:0 win. I was quite happy with the players movement, although both goals ended up coming from set-pieces. I am contemplating setting up a Plan B tactic revolving more around wing-play and a target man, to play a little bit more to Gomez's strength. I've also got an offer in for Juanfran to play at RB at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider Ed Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 @ Murabek. It certainly would be a waste if you can only play 1 of Gomez and Rossi. I would certainly look into retraining Rossi as some sort of midfielder because he has tons of playmaking ability. Im playing him as an Enganche behind Gomez and Matri and he bagged a hat-trick in his first game. I would also consider playing one winger because of the options you have to play there especially on the right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marabak Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Hi Cider Ed. My Target man variation does currently have a winger on the right with a FB at RB. I'm reluctant to play wingers and CWBs together as they generally get in each others way. Retraining Rossi is probably a good idea. Although I only plan on doing this for one season and he will be my main striker from the start, so I'm not sure if it is worth it for the short time I'll be playing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnUrF Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Not sure if it makes that much difference, but are you using FMC or full sim? -SnUrF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebird123 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I'll get this started up tonight. Bit of an embarrassing question to ask but how do you take a screenshot then upload it to here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeKay Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 (4-3-1-2) Ive come accross my first real problem in pre-season. Im struggling to create any chances against the 4-5-1 formation with 2 DM's. Ive played Frankfurt and Mainz and they have both played this formation. Against Mainz I played Cuadrado and Vargas as complete wing backs and they got forward nicely but when the crossed from good positions the middle was far too crowded. What I would normally do is play a couple of advanced wingers and try to get the ball to them quickly but I cand do that in the 4-3-1-2. Anybody got any tips? In general, it tough to break down the block of 2x DM and 2x DC. As you have already said, need to get down the outside. Maybe attacking FB's? Or get the strikers to go wide and move into the channels? Exploiting the flanks? Another problem is the AMC is made redundant so either need to push up to overload the DC's or drop deeper to find space. A neat trick is to use an AP(s) to draw the a DMC out and then push forward with CM(a) into the space made. One of my tactics incorporate idea and I'll be uploading it later. I'll get this started up tonight. Bit of an embarrassing question to ask but how do you take a screenshot then upload it to here? You can't upload directly to the forums but to an image hosting service like Imageshack or Photobucket. I use Puush, and that requires software on your machine but it does the uploading and give a link quicker. Once you have a link you put it between image tags in the post, for example, {IMG} http://url/image.jpg {/IMG} (replace the { } with [ ] because I can't type the tag without it thinking it is an image) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD nawrat Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I'd used a 4-6-0 on one of the pre 14.3 MEs and it worked a treat, but seems to have run out of steam now.With two DMs, you can be very ballsy with your full backs and cast aside the usual "rules" and set them both to Attack Duties. I had success with an Enganche instructed to Close Down More - he ended up leading the line and scoring goals. I also tended to not use a Winger out wide, and used an AP instead. I found that a Winger was a bit one-dimensional and with withdrawn "strikers", it hindered the natural game of a Winger to have to wait for the AMC line players to advance and wait for a cross. However, that was all pre 14.3..... I actually went back and found your thread to see how you lined up because I was struggling so much with the AP/Enganche. Unfortunately what I found was that your thread was pre-patch and it hadn't helped me much really, it gave me some interesting ideas but they were just that. I'm still going to have to tweak to get things working properly. Your point about Wingers is something I noticed myself but I feel that the person at AMR should be stretching the play and trying to play in dangerous crosses. Not sure this is possible without them being a winger. It's a tricky situation... e: Joaquin is going to be a real problem player for me/this shape. I have decided I will play him as a Wide Target Man on Support... the nature of the role is to recycle possession and bring central players into the game and that's exactly what I want/need from him. I'm going to push Juanfran even further forward. I'll try with a Trequartista and a Shadow Striker because I have experience with the former and I know how great it can be for scoring and setting up goals. My worry with the formation is that 4 in the AM strata is too attacking...I've noticed that the 4 of them don't defend enough. It's a tricky situation to play with because against bigger sides I'm afraid we'll be crucified. I didn't want to push the fullbacks right up because I was afraid that it'd leave us too open at the back, but I think he'll be great bombing up. Just worried about how to set up the two DMs. DM/D & Regista seems like a good choice to begin with but I'm considering making it DM/D and DLP/D instead, should provide more defensive stability whilst still providing the playmaking from deep I crave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo98 Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 Right, few updates and things to comment on. First up, i think the following have "volunteered" and i will fire up the machine shortly and post formations: TwinsFan86 Powello NoChance To answer a few other questions: Soldatino - I will post up a full list of who is using what formation, and those which are as of yet unassigned - Will be a handy reference point and also will show if any formations not taken. Worst case we can just have 2 people doing the same formation. TBH i never expected as many people to be interested! Kingdalgliesh - An interesting concept, although i think you can find quite a bit of that throughout the forums, at least for the "main" formations - You will find lots of posts about 4231 for example, with everyone using very different set ups. You should start a thread i you have a specific idea for it:thup: SnUrf - Full Sim i hope for everyone, although i didnt set that out in the rules. The screenshots so far look like everyone is using it. Im not sure how much of an impact FMC has on the overall experiment, but i do know that it does away with tactical familiarity which means you can make sweeping tactical changes for every game and not suffer, so i would be less keen to use it. Right off to assign some new formations and post the list Then maybe i can get my own game moving! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo98 Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 Ok the machine did its thing, formations assigned: TwinsFan86 - 3 - 6 - 1 Powello - 5 -3 -2 No Chance - 4 - 2 - 2 -2 Some interesting ones there, Twins fan gets one of the more unusual shapes, which could equally be one of the most unusual double plays combinations you would see..... Second post now about to be updated with a full picture of who has what, and what is still free if anyone else wants to join Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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