This Will Be It For Me - An answer needed please SI

[zeke]

I'm not the head of anything. I never use sliders anymore. I find them totally distracting. Everything you need to know abut how they work is displayed through the TC settings. However, I don't think it is necessary for anybody to know how they work if they embrace the dynamics of the TC.

All the preset tactics are TC tactics. I have no idea what you mean by this.

My bad than as said haven't followed that forum too much for few versions. I thought the whole TC was your work but guess I was mistaking.

Yes, I know they are "TC tactics". What I meant is that when people setup their own sets using that "tool" you can easily go wrong.

You might be ignoring the sliders but fundamentally the game still is about them. Without them you cannot make players move around the way you want around the pitch. The TC is not flexible enough.

..and no I'am never looking for ME exploits. Never have and never will just saying that you can have one solid tactic and it is still about the movement of the players.

Oh well.. personally think that those tweaks that are being made for the next patch will help out quite a few people on these boards.

[Ginola79]

I'm not the head of anything. I never use sliders anymore. I find them totally distracting. Everything you need to know abut how they work is displayed through the TC settings. However, I don't think it is necessary for anybody to know how they work if they embrace the dynamics of the TC.

All the preset tactics are TC tactics. I have no idea what you mean by this.

Too more new players or ppl who dont think football I would recommend the TC and adjust from there. Im very experienced and Ive a philosophy I play by and get players to fulfill the roles in that philosophy.

The player roles could be better imo - I had Falcao highly recommened poacher but with 13 dribbling,14 acceleration he was playin that like crap - and in a 4-1-1-3-1 tactic he was just to static - so I manually tuned him into my tactics and bang 56 goals in that season - world player of the year. Tactical knowledge helps alot so I wouldnt trust the TC completely - but its a good basic start.

[wwfan]

My bad than as said haven't followed that forum too much for few versions. I thought the whole TC was your work but guess I was mistaking.

Yes, I know they are "TC tactics". What I meant is that when people setup their own sets using that "tool" you can easily go wrong.

You might be ignoring the sliders but fundamentally the game still is about them. Without them you cannot make players move around the way you want around the pitch. The TC is not flexible enough.

..and no I'am never looking for ME exploits. Never have and never will just saying that you can have one solid tactic and it is still about the movement of the players.

Oh well.. personally think that those tweaks that are being made for the next patch will help out quite a few people on these boards.

I had input into the TC, not the sliders. They pre-existed any of my involvement with FM.

It's perfectly fine if you want to build a micro-adjusted slider tactic. Your prerogative. However, in my opinion, that kind of fine granular control is not how football works. Moreover, although you might know what you are doing, the sliders are so abstract that for many it is an exercise in randomness/frustration. Hence, advising that people go classic is not helpful.

I accept that the TC isn't flexible enough as it currently stands. However, if you use all of its dynamic tools, you never need to touch a slider.

[wwfan]

Too more new players or ppl who dont think football I would recommend the TC and adjust from there. Im very experienced and Ive a philosophy I play by and get players to fulfill the roles in that philosophy.

The player roles could be better imo - I had Falcao highly recommened poacher but with 13 dribbling,14 acceleration he was playin that like crap - and in a 4-1-1-3-1 tactic he was just to static - so I manually tuned him into my tactics and bang 56 goals in that season - world player of the year. Tactical knowledge helps alot so I wouldnt trust the TC completely - but its a good basic start.

So, you stopped him being a poacher. Poachers are horrible as lone forwards, so it is not surprising he did better with different settings. However, he might have done equally well as a CF/S, for example.

[zeke]

Too more new players or ppl who dont think football I would recommend the TC and adjust from there. Im very experienced and Ive a philosophy I play by and get players to fulfill the roles in that philosophy.

The player roles could be better imo - I had Falcao highly recommened poacher but with 13 dribbling,14 acceleration he was playin that like crap - and in a 4-1-1-3-1 tactic he was just to static - so I manually tuned him into my tactics and bang 56 goals in that season - world player of the year. Tactical knowledge helps alot so I wouldnt trust the TC completely - but its a good basic start.

That pretty much sums it up what I was saying as well.

Use the preset or even your own TC as basis but if you want to get things sorted so you can enjoy with "single" tactic than you need to know what sliders actually do mean in the game. Those haven't been clear for ages now and that is why we all are seeing so many people angered at the game.

There are people that get their tactics "completely wrong" and should be penalized but when browsed through tactics forums there were people using sensible setup's and still getting beaten. There were those tweaks would have helped quite a bit as you said.

Now.. I'am off.. hoping fot that patch so can get my save ongoing again.

[Ginola79]

So, you stopped him being a poacher. Poachers are horrible as lone forwards, so it is not surprising he did better with different settings. However, he might have done equally well as a CF/S, for example.

Yup I knew that poachers dosent work as lone forwards - thats why the player roles needs to be fit into the tactic you want to play too -same with Mata/Oscar both AP support but one of them a much better dribbler and the other much more stamina - finetunning individually has a point - but overall the TC is better than Classic I agree.

[zeke]

I had input into the TC, not the sliders. They pre-existed any of my involvement with FM.

It's perfectly fine if you want to build a micro-adjusted slider tactic. Your prerogative. However, in my opinion, that kind of fine granular control is not how football works. Moreover, although you might know what you are doing, the sliders are so abstract that for many it is an exercise in randomness/frustration. Hence, advising that people go classic is not helpful.

I accept that the TC isn't flexible enough as it currently stands. However, if you use all of its dynamic tools, you never need to touch a slider.

Maybe it will be flexible enough in one of these days. Who knows.. it would save a lot work if it would be.

I'am not micromanaging things.. only focusing on the movement part of things. That is key to have one tactic and that is why the ME defensive fixes will help out. They always have and no doubt this version as well.

It does not seem that diffrent overall. Kind of CM4 dejavuu for me.

I guess with dynamic tools you are preferring to the "shouts".. those are good for those that actually watch the games. As said though personally using commentary mode only once things are setup. Very rarely I even watch replays. It takes too much freetime to watch those things and thus the tweaking is important.

Anyways.. as said I'am off.

[wwfan]

There are people that get their tactics "completely wrong" and should be penalized but when browsed through tactics forums there were people using sensible setup's and still getting beaten. There were those tweaks would have helped quite a bit as you said.

I've not seen one example of a structurally logical tactic getting battered. Every one posted thus far has had a myriad of core weaknesses.

[dave7867]

The thing is i can see both sides of the debate,i'll explain i see some people edit databases all through the year barely playing the game but thats their choice(thing),i also see some people try to create tactics all year long and be very successful and for what a ego trip(boost) yeah but i've seen very little of the same people this year bragging because their stumped.

Point is they will tweak and tweak away till thet get it right thats all they do until they get it and to find NONE of them got a good answer tells it all.

[Ackter]

Yes, it tells that the match engine has finally got to the point where one tactic can not simply win everything. People actually have to manage, now.

[wwfan]

Yes, it tells that the match engine has finally got to the point where one tactic can not simply win everything. People actually have to manage, now.

This. x1,000,000

[Keyzer Soze]

Yes, it tells that the match engine has finally got to the point where one tactic can not simply win everything. People actually have to manage, now.

Not sure if i agree with this 100%.

If we have a well balanced tactic i think it's possible to play always with the same tactic and win home and away games... against smaller and bigger teams. The only thing we have to do, and i think this is the key, is changing the player according with your opponent, using for example, more hard workers players against some teams or using more creative players against others teams.

At least, this is what i do.

[ScottGooner]

Yeah it's sad that people can't win with a super tactic and buy all the 5 star newgens, on their 'birth' for 100k anymore. Now if SI could just sort out the playing time of young talents and make it so you get transfer offers for your players, the game will be great.

[Keyzer Soze]

Yeah it's sad that people can't win with a super tactic and buy all the 5 star newgens, on their 'birth' for 100k anymore. Now if SI could just sort out the playing time of young talents and make it so you get transfer offers for your players, the game will be great.

This, i think, is the big fail in this year game!

[Rashidi]

You can have as many tactics as you want, the game hyperlinkd two, but with my stafford side we use a base of 5 tactics and in almost every game I've had to do something

[Ackter]

I stick with the same formation regardless, but change the mentalities and certain players from match to match.

[Sikker]

Not defending the ME here, but those stating it's totally unrealistic they always control the game, gets more shots on target and so on (and doesn't win), should take a look at the Danish Superliga. Here former Scandinavian flagship, Brøndby IF, is rock bottom of the league half of the games played.

Most games they control and just look at today's game that ended with a 2-2 draw:

STATISTICS

Brøndby IF Esbjerg FB

SHOTS 32 7

SHOTS ON TARGET 7 3

CORNERS 9 4

FOULS 15 12

YELLOW CARD - 1

RED CARD - -

BALL POSSESSION (%) 62 38

If your defence suck and/or you (the manager) don't know how to set it up this is the kind of result you'll keep getting... Just as in the case with Brøndby...

[BiggusD]

Yes, it tells that the match engine has finally got to the point where one tactic can not simply win everything. People actually have to manage, now.

I expect to have such a balanced tactic that I will win with it most of the time without -having- to change anything (i.e generally producing bigger chances than it allows to be produced against it, controlling matches but also able to counter when the opportunity arises). However, I also expect to have to change more and more often as you guys keep on improving the ME. Those should be small changes, though, not fundamental philosophical directions.

I saw a post in the official thread where one of you said that the defending had improved so much that there weren't enough goals. This pleases me. I have said many times that you should do this on purpose - just tighten things up so much that with the 4 best defenders in the game working together in a sensible system and 100% used to each other would lead to perfect defending 100% of the time. Because only then can you begin to tune the efficiency of defending down so that good forwards can overcome it and mistakes are being made when it is realistic that they could (for instance heavy pressure, poor pitch etc).

Another issue that I suspect takes a lot of time to get right is the fact that most people only watch Key or Extended highlights, and when they do so they will only see those instances where one of the teams manage to get it all right, passing first-touch through the defense and blasting it home. Hence the complaints that there is -no- defending whatseoever, while there certainly is but not when they're watching... It is of course realistic that even the weakest of teams manage to make it "click into place" now and then, but it is very important that even when they do there must appear to be more than one team on the pitch. Tackles must be made (and missed), runs must be followed (but a fraction of a second too slow) and correct defensive decisions must be made (but it wasn't enough). If the general mode of operation is that everything goes right for one team and everything goes wrong for the other when goals are scored, suspension of disbelief will be hard to maintain. I feel this is more the case now than it was in FM12, but as I said I understand that this is probably what takes the most time of all to get right.

[conky30]

This. x1,000,000

Thing is a simple 5-3-1-1 that is plug in play and works season after season already proves you and Ackter wrong

If the ME patch makes defending tighter and stops the horrendous gk and defending errors then I do wonder how much more effective 5 at the back is going to be.

Also @ OP what team are you playing as again ?

[geordiebird]

Yes, it tells that the match engine has finally got to the point where one tactic can not simply win everything. People actually have to manage, now.

Really?

I used a single tactic all 1st season with West Ham and finished 8th(had i won my last game i'd have finished 6th) used the same single tactic 2nd season and finished 4th(if not for the inexplicable run of results i may well have won the title). All this without barely spending at all in the transfer market.

Funny thing is, i'd give up the over achievement for a game that didn't keep coming up with these ridiculous scenarios that see me have a run of games i should clearly win comfortably but somehow lose?

I have no problem losing games, its part and parcel of football, i also don't mind losing a game here and there that i should win comfortably, again that's just the way it goes sometimes. What i cannot accept is when it starts happening game after game for absolutely no reason. Right or wrong its easy to imagine that the game is punishing you for doing TOO WELL.

Going back to tactics, i started FM13 as i always start new FM games, using the in game tactics and changing strategies and player roles based on our opponents and whether we were at home or away, i even added shouts. All i find is that its time consuming and rarely works. Who wants to go through all that when you watch the ME and find your losing goals because your six defenders all walk away from a ball in the box leaving it for the oppositions one and only forward? or the opposing winger runs right along the byline with three players surrounding him and your gk on the near post yet the ball amazingly somehow keeps going in?

Seriously

Edit

Just to add, in EVERY SINGLE SEASON i've played so far(around 10 or 12 total) my strikers have suddenly hit a "cannot score" patch in the last 8-10 games? players that had a 3 in 4 average all season up to this point are suddenly missing open goals inside the six yard box???

I could lose, lose, lose all day long and have a relegation struggle every season no problem, just convey that in the performances via the ME and i'll be happy!

[Clausdk]

I must say that i'm rather torn on this issue. People in here saying that you need to tweak your tactics every now and then, because the opponent learns your tactics. That isn't quite right. So Barcelona have changed their tactics, over the last few seasons, i don't think so. My team, FC Copenhagen, has been playing the same tactics for over a decade now, and they are still doing fine.

My personal belief and experince is that, of course the tactics has something to say, but in the end it comes down to the players. And this is my experience in FM, and also in FM13. I use a 4-4-2 from the dropdown, and i tweaked it, and then i started to buy players that fits in my style of play. This is going really good, and i've never changed my tactics. So basically, yes the tactics has something to say, but in the end it depends on the players your buy. Or at least that is my experience

[geordiebird]

Really?

I used a single tactic all 1st season with West Ham and finished 8th(had i won my last game i'd have finished 6th) used the same single tactic 2nd season and finished 4th(if not for the inexplicable run of results i may well have won the title). All this without barely spending at all in the transfer market.

Funny thing is, i'd give up the over achievement for a game that didn't keep coming up with these ridiculous scenarios that see me have a run of games i should clearly win comfortably but somehow lose?

I have no problem losing games, its part and parcel of football, i also don't mind losing a game here and there that i should win comfortably, again that's just the way it goes sometimes. What i cannot accept is when it starts happening game after game for absolutely no reason. Right or wrong its easy to imagine that the game is punishing you for doing TOO WELL.

Going back to tactics, i started FM13 as i always start new FM games, using the in game tactics and changing strategies and player roles based on our opponents and whether we were at home or away, i even added shouts. All i find is that its time consuming and rarely works. Who wants to go through all that when you watch the ME and find your losing goals because your six defenders all walk away from a ball in the box leaving it for the oppositions one and only forward? or the opposing winger runs right along the byline with three players surrounding him and your gk on the near post yet the ball amazingly somehow keeps going in?

Seriously

Edit

Just to add, in EVERY SINGLE SEASON i've played so far(around 10 or 12 total) my strikers have suddenly hit a "cannot score" patch in the last 8-10 games? players that had a 3 in 4 average all season up to this point are suddenly missing open goals inside the six yard box???

I could lose, lose, lose all day long and have a relegation struggle every season no problem, just convey that in the performances via the ME and i'll be happy!

Pre season in season 3 and i've had about 14 player knocks in training and friendlies(about 4 with my own players injuring each other) and now have 7 of my first 11 out injured.

My training? Team Cohesion - Average

[Ditmar van Nostrilboy]

Silly thing is, I'm playing as Man United (my default to get to grips with each version) and a basic 4-4-2 had me in the first season win the league and League Cup, and get to the final in the CL and FA cup. That involved a 4-0 win over Barcelona in the QF.

Nothing fancy, only purchases were Baines and Barkley and I didn't touch the sliders at all.

In fact I defaulted to a standard (rather than control/attacking) and balanced (rather than fluid/rigid) style too. I actually think people are tending to over-think the engine and trying to do too much.

[Ackter]

So many people quite clearly describing football​ in here.

[tajj 7]

Just thought I'd chip in.

I've only played the one save so far (still playing it).

Started with Southampton, started with a 4-1-2-2-1, wasn't happy with it, turned it into a 4-4-1-1, finished 5th first season.

Bought a few players, used the exact same formation for two seasons and won the league twice, didn't change formation once, just used a few shouts here and there, a few changes of mentalities against bigger teams etc. Played a lot of the second half of both seasons on commentary only.

Season 4 tried a different formation, with no striker didn't go brilliantly but spent the season tweaking it, finished 4th. My current season using the same formation which I am now happy with I am top of the legaue clear by 8 points. I have lost 2 league games so far, won the league cup, I'm in the quarter finals of the Champions league. This is all with a team where my oldest outfield players are 26, at times I have had 3 17 year olds in the first team.

Essentially using the tactics creator I have created 2 formations and I'm on my way to 3 premier league titles in 5 years with Southampton. My net spend over the 5 years is probably only about £50 million and a lot of that is Director of Football youth purchases. I have probably played over 50% of my games on 'commentary only'.

There is no 'scripting', the ME isn't against you (it's not prefect mind, some silly goals are scored), there is no AI bias against you, there isn't a built in second season syndrome

It's your tactics, your reputation, how you play against the AI tactics and how they play against you, and your teams morale.

[geordiebird]

Essentially using the tactics creator I have created 2 formations and I'm on my way to 3 premier league titles in 5 years with Southampton. My net spend over the 5 years is probably only about £50 million and a lot of that is Director of Football youth purchases. I have probably played over 50% of my games on 'commentary only'.

There is no 'scripting', the ME isn't against you (it's not prefect mind, some silly goals are scored), there is no AI bias against you, there isn't a built in second season syndrome

It's your tactics, your reputation, how you play against the AI tactics and how they play against you, and your teams morale.

IF all that is true then the game is not worthy of being played then, not about winning or losing for me never has, just lets have some realism, constantly producing games in which i have more shots, better chances, possession, etc, etc yet lose is NOT realistic, however you stretch your imagination.

Very poor.

[Ackter]

I suggest you spend a little less time stubbornly insisting on how you should win, and spend a little time in reading real world stats which, on the whole, are reflected very accurately within FM.

[geordiebird]

I suggest you spend a little less time stubbornly insisting on how you should win, and spend a little time in reading real world stats which, on the whole, are reflected very accurately within FM.

I'm very into stats and imo FM does not even come close to what i see in real life.

Sorry

[daylight]

It can happen,the problem is in FM13 it happens way to often.

Take the Celtic versus Barca game recently,now Barca battered their goal but Celtic held firm,Celtic's keeper played a blinder and even though Barca had far far more of the ball and far more shots and clear cut chances Celtic won the game.

Now everyone talks about it as it is unusual for this to happen,Imagine if Barca played their next 5 or 6 games and exactly the same thing happened?

It would not happen as if Barca are always creating so many chances and have the ball so much their is no way they would be walking off the park some 6 games in a row without a point to show for it.

Yes it can happen that a team dominates the game but come off unlucky in defeat,it can not happen game after game after game.

I wonder if anyone sat down with the Barca coach after the Celtic game and said "yeah it was your tactics"

[geordiebird]

It can happen,the problem is in FM13 it happens way to often.

Take the Celtic versus Barca game recently,now Barca battered their goal but Celtic held firm,Celtic's keeper played a blinder and even though Barca had far far more of the ball and far more shots and clear cut chances Celtic won the game.

Now everyone talks about it as it is unusual for this to happen,Imagine if Barca played their next 5 or 6 games and exactly the same thing happened?

It would not happen as if Barca are always creating so many chances and have the ball so much their is no way they would be walking off the park some 6 games in a row without a point to show for it.

Yes it can happen that a team dominates the game but come off unlucky in defeat,it can not happen game after game after game.

I wonder if anyone sat down with the Barca coach after the Celtic game and said "yeah it was your tactics"

Exactly right and well put sir!

[La Furia Roja]

geordiebird very simple question. If this is all pre programmed or whatever you are suggesting, why do you think its not happening to everyone?

[Cougar2010]

I'm very into stats and imo FM does not even come close to what i see in real life.

Sorry

Well then you would be wrong.

Quite honestly your thread is no different to the hundreds of others we've seen on the forum for every version of FM over the last few years.

The answer is always the same, the problem is of your own making and you refuse to adapt to the changes.

Your choices are either:

A) Continue to stick your fingers in your ears, insist you are right, complain on the forums and don't enjoy the game.

or

B) Read the advice you are/will be given by those who have far more experience than yourself, take it onboard, learn from it and start enjoying the game.

[milnerpoint]

It can happen,the problem is in FM13 it happens way to often.

Take the Celtic versus Barca game recently,now Barca battered their goal but Celtic held firm,Celtic's keeper played a blinder and even though Barca had far far more of the ball and far more shots and clear cut chances Celtic won the game.

Now everyone talks about it as it is unusual for this to happen,Imagine if Barca played their next 5 or 6 games and exactly the same thing happened?

It would not happen as if Barca are always creating so many chances and have the ball so much their is no way they would be walking off the park some 6 games in a row without a point to show for it.

Yes it can happen that a team dominates the game but come off unlucky in defeat,it can not happen game after game after game.

I wonder if anyone sat down with the Barca coach after the Celtic game and said "yeah it was your tactics"

Even tho it was their tactics that let them down? They came with no plan B and as such didnt try anything else when what they were doing clearly wasnt working, thats actually a fantastic example of not using the correct tactics and then burrying your head in the sand when they dont work out!

[daylight]

Even tho it was their tactics that let them down? They came with no plan B and as such didnt try anything else when what they were doing clearly wasnt working, thats actually a fantastic example of not using the correct tactics and then burrying your head in the sand when they dont work out!

I take it you never watched the game then?

Never mind,no point in discussing this with you at any rate.

Daylight out.

[geordiebird]

geordiebird very simple question. If this is all pre programmed or whatever you are suggesting, why do you think its not happening to everyone?

I said it feels like the game is punishing you for doing too well, if that WERE true then obviously only those of us who seriously over achieve would even see it, as from what i'm reading on these forums there are more people struggling than succeeding.

Remember i'm not claiming the above is FACT, my main gripe with it all is that it still produces game after game of the kind of matches i describe above and that if its all supposed to be because of tactics then that kind of makes the game ridiculously unbelievable.

[geordiebird]

Well then you would be wrong.

Quite honestly your thread is no different to the hundreds of others we've seen on the forum for every version of FM over the last few years.

The answer is always the same, the problem is of your own making and you refuse to adapt to the changes.

Your choices are either:

A) Continue to stick your fingers in your ears, insist you are right, complain on the forums and don't enjoy the game.

or

B) Read the advice you are/will be given by those who have far more experience than yourself, take it onboard, learn from it and start enjoying the game.

Your missing my point, which is stressed in the above post.

[wwfan]

1st season - loads of chances 15-20, 3-5 ccc in a lot of matches win most games.

2nd season - loads of chances 15-20, 3-5 ccc in a lot of matches struggle with draws and more defeats.

And nobody can anything wrong with that ?

wwfan how much input did you have on the TC etc btw ? I mean you so vehemently argue against everyone who brings up stuff even when presented with evidence, you clearly have an agenda. You are more than a mod, im just trying get my head around some of the stuff you come out with, not trying to have a dig. In the feedback thread you have denied ME flaws existing only for fixes in the patch be made that PaulC so what gives here. How much input did you really have (frankly I shudder to think you had anything to with the game).

Yeah, no dig there!

I do not vehemently argue or ignore ME flaws. If you bothered to read through my posts you'd see that. There's a fundamental difference between ME flaws and losing because you're tactically inept / average / confused / reliant on super-tactics that no longer work [delete as applicable].

My only agenda is trying to help people get to grips with basic football fundamentals. That is becoming increasingly difficult with all the abuse I've received. It is also difficult to get through to people that they might not know as much about football as they think. I just can't comprehend how people can think top class sportsmen don't vary their approaches to different matches and conditions. It isn't just about formation, but about doing certain things in each match that take advantages of your strengths and their weaknesses.

For what it is worth, every single person who has genuinely listened to my advice, not just in FM13, but going back to FM06, has stopped seeing the multiple shots, no goal scenario, and have managed to get their team playing attractive football. All those that failed to take any advice continued seeing the kind of thing you are reporting.

[wwfan]

It can happen,the problem is in FM13 it happens way to often.

Take the Celtic versus Barca game recently,now Barca battered their goal but Celtic held firm,Celtic's keeper played a blinder and even though Barca had far far more of the ball and far more shots and clear cut chances Celtic won the game.

Now everyone talks about it as it is unusual for this to happen,Imagine if Barca played their next 5 or 6 games and exactly the same thing happened?

It would not happen as if Barca are always creating so many chances and have the ball so much their is no way they would be walking off the park some 6 games in a row without a point to show for it.

Yes it can happen that a team dominates the game but come off unlucky in defeat,it can not happen game after game after game.

I wonder if anyone sat down with the Barca coach after the Celtic game and said "yeah it was your tactics"

It's posts like this that drive me mad.

It is happening to you because your tactics are flawed, illogical, one-dimensional or all of the above. It does not happen and has not ever happened to me. Therefore, it has to be your tactics.

Stop spouting on about shots, possession and CCCs. Only one stat matters and that is goals. If you can't score them, then you might want to listen to people who can and do.

[Cougar2010]

I said it feels like the game is punishing you for doing too well, if that WERE true then obviously only those of us who seriously over achieve would even see it, as from what i'm reading on these forums there are more people struggling than succeeding.

Remember i'm not claiming the above is FACT, my main gripe with it all is that it still produces game after game of the kind of matches i describe above and that if its all supposed to be because of tactics then that kind of makes the game ridiculously unbelievable.

Your missing my point, which is stressed in the above post.

You see game after game of the same thing happening because you don't do anything to change it.

Goals win games, not shots or any other stat. In games where you score first you will generally go on to win, the problem comes when the opposition score first or when its still 0-0 midway through the 2nd half.

Basically when the opposition attack and leave space for you to exploit you do well, when the opposition defend and counter attack you don't do as well. You need to learn to change your play to cope with defensive tactics by the opposition.

[milnerpoint]

I take it you never watched the game then?

Never mind,no point in discussing this with you at any rate.

Daylight out.

Of course i watched the game, Barca did the same thing over and over and over and Celtic defended the attacks, Forster made a couple of great saves, but for Barca's domination they only created 2/3 good chances. Barca had no plan B, they never changed their approach, they seemed to think that by changing nothing they would eventually get through, they did, but not till the very end and they had no real time to win the game. Again its a good example of not adjusting, or not having planned for your main tactic not working perfectly.

I dont see why you have to be so agressive about it.

[geordiebird]

It's posts like this that drive me mad.

It is happening to you because your tactics are flawed, illogical, one-dimensional or all of the above. It does not happen and has not ever happened to me. Therefore, it has to be your tactics.

Stop spouting on about shots, possession and CCCs. Only one stat matters and that is goals. If you can't score them, then you might want to listen to people who can and do.

How can you be drivem "mad" by perfectly legitimate posts such as this???

This to me is the madness.

[daylight]

Sorry but I am scoring goals,I do have a successful team,I am now 1st in the BSP with Tonbridge,I am just waiting for the patch that will improve the ME and game highlights.

I still have matches were I dominate and get beat,it is no problem as I am successful but I still feel it happens way to often in this ME.

Why do you have to take every post as a personal insult to you and then feel the need to then insult my skill at understanding the game?

I am really baffled at this.I thought this was all behind us now.

[graeme355]

I have to agree with wwfan i used to think it was the game being "against me" but if you really take on his advice you will find an improvement, do i still see this sometimes yes, but when i do i look at what i am doing and how i can improve it using his principles, and i usually fix it.

Go to the tactics forum and give it a try i urge you it helps

[wwfan]

How can you be drivem "mad" by perfectly legitimate posts such as this???

This to me is the madness.

Because neither he nor you, nor half the forums, are listening. You create a thread asking for help, then ignore everything you've been told because it doesn't sit with your worldview. That's not asking for help, it's sticking your fingers in your ears.

I believe madness can be defined as repeatedly doing the same thing and expecting different results. How many saves have you had? At least some people take my advice, so I do get the odd positive result for my efforts.

[geordiebird]

You see game after game of the same thing happening because you don't do anything to change it.

Goals win games, not shots or any other stat. In games where you score first you will generally go on to win, the problem comes when the opposition score first or when its still 0-0 midway through the 2nd half.

Basically when the opposition attack and leave space for you to exploit you do well, when the opposition defend and counter attack you don't do as well. You need to learn to change your play to cope with defensive tactics by the opposition.

Its not about that, its about these types of game being the basic FM way of showing unrealistic football and statistics, we've established these kinds of games happen in football, but as some of us keep trying to explain, it doesn't happen to the same team over and over again in real life and what's worse is that via the ME it shows this by making my players miss open goals from inside the six yard box, whilst the AI take advantage of my defenders walking away from balls in the box.

Its not difficult to understand.

[wwfan]

Sorry but I am scoring goals,I do have a successful team,I am now 1st in the BSP with Tonbridge,I am just waiting for the patch that will improve the ME and game highlights.

I still have matches were I dominate and get beat,it is no problem as I am successful but I still feel it happens way to often in this ME.

Why do you have to take every post as a personal insult to you and then feel the need to then insult my skill at understanding the game?

I am really baffled at this.I thought this was all behind us now.

I'm glad you are doing well. I wasn't having a go at you personally, rather trying, once again, to combat an opinion that stops others from having a chance to get to grips with the tactical module. If you think that the ME/AI is fundamentally out to get you, you will never adapt. Your post supports this perspective and it is harmful to the forums. It stops people from getting help and contributes to a totally false mythology about the ME & AI.

[Ackter]

Enough. Tactics forum is there if anyone legitimately wants help with understanding the game and engine.

If all you want to do is moan, please do it somewhere else.