FM 13 New Video: Changes in Training

[Bababui]

I'd argue why they left the choice for the tactics creator, I'd rather have seen that removed.

Why bother with messy things like elections when we can merely enthrone your preferred party. And I am sure when you go to buy a new computer you want the company to have only one choice.

[Bababui]

It's not cheating or an exploit, but it's easy to make it become so once you work out how it works.

To bring finishing from 14 to 20 you'd need to sacrifice a lot, but what use is tackling, marking, positioning etc to a striker? You'd end up with those attributes as 1s or 2s.

What is positioning for a striker??? Really?? Unless the striker is Maradona dribbling 50 yards I would say positioning is very important.

[themadsheep2001]

What is positioning for a striker??? Really?? Unless the striker is Maradona dribbling 50 yards I would say positioning is very important.

Positioning is a defensive attribute. Unless you are using a defensive forward its not important.

[Bababui]

Positioning is a defensive attribute. Unless you are using a defensive forward its not important.

Positioning should also indicate where a player should be on the pitch at any specific moment. A striker has to be in the right position to receive a through pass.

[themadsheep2001]

Positioning should also indicate where a player should be on the pitch at any specific moment. A striker has to be in the right position to receive a through pass.

Thats done by anticipation and off the ball, as well as decisons.

[Smac]

Edit: I should clarify: I'm responding to the assertion that the old system was bad because the AI teams did not use it well: 'The old system was cheaty and exploity'- IE, unbalanced. My suggestion is: Why not balance it?

A bit naive I suppose but I was hoping that AI teams would get better at training so that I wouldn't have to get worse at it.

I mean, obviously it wouldn't work if every team and every player could be trained perfectly. But do a bell curve on training and allow top clubs to train a few outliers to strong templates every year or two. This way the rest of the market develops players in competition with the human player, but only rarely. This would mean that a detailed training strategy would still be profitable but wouldn't be necessarily unique. And because it wasn't unique it wouldn't be necessary: You could skip training your own players and just buy on the market if you had the finances or inclination.

If I'm now faced with a few robotic choices regarding training, why am I playing exactly? Why not just observe AI teams fumble about with it? No, instead I think training should be brought up to the levels of complexity exemplified by the match engine. Obviously it doesn't have to go that far, but it should head into immersion, nuance, and tradeoffs rather than away from all thinking into punchcard-template-land. I hope it isn't heading there. I've been there and they have punchcards ffs.

[davidbowie]

A bit naive I suppose, but I was hoping that AI teams would get better at training, so that I wouldn't have to get worse at it.

I mean, obviously it wouldn't work if every team and every player could be trained perfectly. But do a bell curve on training and allow top clubs to train a few outliers to strong templates every year or two. This way the rest of the market develops players in competition with the human player, but only rarely. This would mean that a detailed training strategy would still be profitable but wouldn't be necessarily unique. And because it wasn't unique it wouldn't be necessary: You could skip training your own players and just buy on the market if you had the finances or inclination.

If I'm now faced with a few robotic choices regarding training, why am I playing exactly? Why not just observe AI teams fumble about with it? No, instead I think training should be brought up to the levels of complexity exemplified by the match engine. Obviously it doesn't have to go that far, but it should head into immersion, nuance, and tradeoffs rather than away from all thinking into punchcard-template-land. I hope it isn't heading there. I've been there and they have punchcards ffs.

Unfortunately that's what we've been given this year.

One-size fits all training schedules.

Want to train a player in a role that doesn't match his position? Nope.

Want to train a player in an attribute while training him in his position? Nope.

Want to train a player in a role while training an attribute? Nope.

This is a horrible change and I hope SI can see the error of their ways and re-instate the old training module as an option for non-casual players who have put the time and effort into learning the game to gain good results.

Let the dumbed down option be available for casual mode, but give us back our training depth.

The stupidthing is thatthere was an easy way to setup training for the AI, with both aspects in place, they could use the position on the pitch and their role in the tactic to decide what their slider training should be. It wouldn't have been hard. But no, SI can't code their AI so they dumb the game down for the rest of us.

[milnerpoint]

You almost have the worst attitude i have come across on the GD forum, and that is some achievement.

[playmaker]

The sliders are a pre-set template too. They train one fixed set of attributes. All you are doing is setting that template higher or lower. And if you want individual training there is a lot of repetitive work involved to do that. The focus is on the settings not the decisions. It isn't fun (this is a game remember) so a lot of people choose not to bother.

With the new system you are going to have to think about your team philosophy, how to combine team and individual training, and which roles will give you the best blend of attributes. You are going to have to make compromises, you are going to have to choose when to adapt someone's role or when to just max out the attributes in their current role, you are going to have to decide whether training one blend of attributes is more important than another blend. The focus is on the decisions and not the settings - which is what the game should be about.

Life doesn't hand you perfect choices. The hard part is knowing how to make best use of what you have and knowing which compromises to make. This isn't dumbed down - far from it. You are just seeing what you can't do and failing to see the possibilities on offer.

[wally13]

You almost have the worst attitude i have come across on the GD forum, and that is some achievement.

I find him quite comical to be honest, It's like if you don't play the game how i do then your an idiot !! yeah Ok pal jog on

[Smurf]

It's funny because they haven't tried the new way. Actually was explained quite well. The old way was flawed, you don't put players in a team on individual schedules, the training is more realistic.

All this call to put it back the old way is ridiculous. SI made the change for the good and more realistic approach to managing a club. And this what the game is Football Manager, not Football Slider Adjuster.

[milnerpoint]

I find it incredible that people are able to say exactly what it does and doesnt do, having only watched a video briefly outlining the basics. Took most people a few years to get their heads around the current training set up, so why you'd think you know it all after 2 minutes is beyond me.

[Smurf]

It's a brief overview of the changes - nothing more. People reading far too much into it.

And I bet they still buy it.

[Shakes]

The problem is some people are confusing complexity with depth. Having to make difficult decisions from a constrained set of choices can be depth ... having to micro manage training schedules for every player to play optimally is just complexity.

[grep]

Which are the benefits/issues from resting after a match ? I am asking not for the logical and obvious answer but for what FM13 really does.

[milnerpoint]

Your players get time to recover from a game, a player has more chance of being injured if they are tired.

[Smurf]

Which are the benefits/issues from resting after a match?

Is this a serious question?

Go for a 12km run on Saturday, train on a Sunday, Monday, Tues, Run 12km Wednesday, train Thursday, Friday, run 12km Saturday, train Sunday.

You then tell me the benefit of resting the day after a match.

[Pafeu]

But light training is better for recovery than sitting on the couch and watching TV.

[Smac]

And if you want individual training there is a lot of repetitive work involved to do that. The focus is on the settings not the decisions. It isn't fun (this is a game remember) so a lot of people choose not to bother.

Three things here:

1. The repetitiveness of setting up training schedules initially is a UI issue, and could have been improved. Baby and the bathwater.

2. "The focus is on the settings, not the decisions". Changing settings requires making a fair few decisions. A good manager will adjust a player's settings many times throughout their development to re-focus the emphasis on development of this or that skill-set. If you mean that you are not making forced trade-offs like "I want most of my players to train in attacking, but setting general training to attacking means my DMCs who really need defending training will suffer", then I agree with you, it wasn't like that, thank goodness.

3. The time-depth of monitoring your player's progress and adjusting things certainly is(was) a barrier to entry. You could be successful setting up or using generalized schedules, but if you want to maximize a given player's development it means that you have to pay attention and check in somewhat regularly. If, however, you want it to be less time consuming but just as effective then you run into a problem of having little to impede a player from constantly being great at it.

If, on the other hand, you just want it to be "more fun" then I fail to see how providing a platform for nurturing players through their development is less fun than not having that ability. Its like playing matches on Key highlights: You can do it and do well, but if you suggest that there shouldn't be an ability to make changes during a match because you don't find watching in full or extended fun, I don't consider that reasonable. If you pay attention and watch in full you should have a potential advantage. Same should go with training: While we can debate about the interface and methodology of creating fun, removing the potential for detailed micromanaging hardly seems like a step forward. Or were you suggesting something else?

With the new system you are going to have to think about your team philosophy, how to combine team and individual training, and which roles will give you the best blend of attributes. You are going to have to make compromises [...]

I don't disagree with a move toward further compromises, just am not liking the heavy-handed approach. The choice of words "dumbed-down", while perhaps applicable in some sense, doesn't convey much of the real issue. It isn't that your choices are dumbed-down, its that they are reduced so that you stand farther from your players with less influence on their development. You shout through a megaphone or email to your squad and say "You lot work on attacking this week. I'll be back!".

To suggest that the old system wasn't full of its own compromises is pretty unfair and inaccurate. It seems you're suggesting that there should be compromises that mean "Here is where your influence ends, too bad" as I fail to see where you're trading one good for another. You're trading one minimal-influence for another. The compromise is that we "need" this system so that training appears more realistic and so that the human player doesn't run away from the AI. Well, appearances don't last that long when what you want is to enjoy the actual underlying game week after week.

Personally I don't want more features that look good at first but are quickly shown to be shallow, and that is my big concern here: Will training become a bunch of paperwork to little end?

P.S.: @davidbowie: Wrongly, people find it easy to dismiss your points because you're attacking their intelligence in addition to their arguments. This amuses them rather than gets them your argument. If you reduce your aggro you will be more effective.

[davidbowie]

P.S.: @davidbowie: Wrongly, people find it easy to dismiss your points because you're attacking their intelligence in addition to their arguments. This amuses them rather than gets them your argument. If you reduce your aggro you will be more effective.

The game is being dumbed down.

Depth is being reduced.

Casual gamers who refused to learn the training module are being catered to with this new casual focus.

If they refuse to accept their own failures then that is their own issue. Instead of recognising that they were just lazy and couldn't be bothered learning about the training module they are trying to cloak their own inadequacy with 'oh it's more realistic' and 'oh it wasn't fun' and 'oh it was too much work' as justifications for this new dumbed down casual style.

I've go no problem with casual gaming in and of itself. My issue is when games take existing depth and player choice and remove them so that casual gamers don't have to deal with them.

It's funny because they haven't tried the new way. Actually was explained quite well. The old way was flawed, you don't put players in a team on individual schedules, the training is more realistic.

Except that's not true. Players are being micromanaged more than ever and this extends to training.

I find it incredible that people are able to say exactly what it does and doesnt do, having only watched a video briefly outlining the basics. Took most people a few years to get their heads around the current training set up, so why you'd think you know it all after 2 minutes is beyond me.

Because they showed it in the video. Because it's been specifically said by SI staff what certain things are. This isn't a game where options are hidden. They showed the new training module and viewing it in 1080p is exactly like how it will be in-game when it launches. The exact same thing happened two or so years ago when I made a post about expanding the set piece options after watching a blog video from SI, and everyone told me "omg it hasn't even launched yet shut up" yet the game came out and it was exactly the same as it was in the video.

I'm not inventing the idea that you can't do attribute training while doing role training, because it is specifically shown in the video. The video shows the player using a drop-down menu to pick between attribute or role. Not both like now.

I'm not inventing the idea that the training module is now dumbed down because instead of having to manage your entire team and what you want them to do, you now pick a one-size-fits-all "team focus". Who cares if you don't want your strikers to do any defensive training, with SI's new casual friendly training you can only pick one focus for your team. Far be it from me to want my strikers to train in shooting, and my defenders to train in defending. Nope, I have to set entire groups of players to train in the exact opposite training choice because of this new 'team focus'. Do you think Fergie tells RVP that he's not doing shooting training today, he's going to spend the entire session doing tackles, marking and heading the ball clear because he's got a match against Manchester City and needs a better defensive effort from his back 4?

I'm not making up that they have taken away options because players can only now use pre-set 'roles' based on their main position, because it is specifically shown in the video. The video shows the player using the drop-down menu to pick for a striker, only specific pre-set roles which have been limited to only striker roles.

Depth has been reduced. Choice has been torn away from the player. The module is dumbed down and should be in Casual mode only or at the very least players who have made the effort to learn the module can decide they don't want the casual dumbed down option and choose to keep the existing depth the game had.

This isn't 'realism'. It's pseudo-realism being used as an excuse to dumb down the module for casual users.

The old module should be a part of the real Football Manager. If they want Casual Football Manager they should download FM Handheld or CM01/02 and get a transfer update or play the Casual Mode where this new module style would fit perfectly.

[spankie]

If they refuse to accept their own failures then that is their own issue. Instead of recognising that they were just lazy and couldn't be bothered learning about the training module they are trying to cloak their own inadequacy with 'oh it's more realistic' and 'oh it wasn't fun' and 'oh it was too much work' as justifications for this new dumbed down casual style.

And that is why no one is really taking you seriously, they all think that you're just trolling.

Cut out the insults and perhaps people will take you and your opinions seriously, I know at the moment I don't as all that I cam see of your posts are where you insult people and their intelligence.

[grep]

Which are the benefits/issues from resting after a match ? I am asking not for the logical and obvious answer but for what FM13 really does.

Sorry to quote myself but I was asking to SI how in the details they implemented the feature " rest after a match ", beside of course the obvious reasons Eugene you already mentioned.

[hursty2]

Most drills involve an attacking and defensive team.

A defensive positioning drill would include say 5 defenders and 6 attackers, all doing their thing. Defenders defending, attackers attacking. It is near impossible for drills in football to not include both sides of the coin, set pieces will have a defensive set up and an attacking play. Attackers don't attack against plastic men, unless it's a shooting drill. Defenders don't defend against fresh air, an attacker will always be there to allow for defensive work.

[hursty2]

Sorry to quote myself but I was asking to SI how in the details they implemented the feature " rest after a match ", beside of course the obvious reasons Eugene you already mentioned.

An issue with resting the team after the match could be is that the whole squad might be rested and thus leaving others without a session, which they probably should be having.

[Bababui]

It's funny because they haven't tried the new way. Actually was explained quite well. The old way was flawed, you don't put players in a team on individual schedules, the training is more realistic.

All this call to put it back the old way is ridiculous. SI made the change for the good and more realistic approach to managing a club. And this what the game is Football Manager, not Football Slider Adjuster.

Players are put on individual training all the time; certain players focus on certain parts of training more than others. That is the realistic part of it. And coache adjust training all the time..the real life version of slider adjustment.

[wally13]

Players are put on individual training all the time; certain players focus on certain parts of training more than others. That is the realistic part of it. And coache adjust training all the time..the real life version of slider adjustment.

What so you think at a training session there's loads of players separately doing there own training ?? sorry but i dont think so, you might get the odd player working by himself or with a fitness coach but more often the team will train in a group or maybe 2 separate big groups, i played Semi pro for few years so im speaking from experience and I've been to see Leeds utd train a few times as my mate played for them for 3 years

[Bababui]

What so you think at a training session there's loads of players separately doing there own training ?? sorry but i dont think so, you might get the odd player working by himself or with a fitness coach but more often the team will train in a group or maybe 2 separate big groups, i played Semi pro for few years so im speaking from experience and I've been to see Leeds utd train a few times as my mate played for them for 3 years

You and Eugene dont seem to be able to get your heads around the fact that there isnt a vanilla training routine that all players follow. The percentage of a players time spent on a specific training routine will depend on what the coaching staff thinks the individual players needs are. That doesnt mean that anyone is training alone.

[wally13]

You and Eugene dont seem to be able to get your heads around the fact that there isnt a vanilla training routine that all players follow. The percentage of a players time spent on a specific training routine will depend on what the coaching staff thinks the individual players needs are. That doesnt mean that anyone is training alone.

But you keep going on about individual routines like every player as one when they don't

[Bababui]

But you keep going on about individual routines like every player as one when they don't

But every player can have one and the new training module is a step away from realism.

[davidbowie]

Players are put on individual training all the time; certain players focus on certain parts of training more than others. That is the realistic part of it. And coache adjust training all the time..the real life version of slider adjustment.

Exactly.

To put it another way, how different categories might work with so called 'individual training' (ie the sliders) in reality.

The playing group spends a set amount of time working as a team. Playing full team drills, doing small group drills together, fitness work together. Just the basic level of training any squad does. But then you have players who have more or less training. A real life realistic version of the sliders would be:

Strength - For players doing more than the regular amount on the team the fitness coach might take them and do an extra weight session. A player doing even more than that would do strength/weight training on his own outside the regular teams training, while using protein loaded food to enable muscle growth. A player doing less strength training would stop or do less weight training compared to the rest of the team, and the nutritionst would limit their calorie intake to lessen their body and muscle weight.

Aerobic - For players doing more than the rest of the team the fitness coach would take them on long runs, do repeated beep tests and so on. For a player doing more than that sub-group would be more aerobic/stamina/cardio training on his own outside the regular team training.

Tactics - This is obvious. A group (usually core defenders and midfielders) would do additional tactic sessions and theoretical tactics work. A player doing intensive tactics work would do one-on-one sessions, with a lot of video work.

Ball Control - As a group they would do more small drills that develop these skills. Again, a player doing more intense work would do one-on-one sessions with coaches.

Defending - Defensive drills, and intense training on the defensive aspect of the game with defending coaches and drills.

Attacking and Shooting are again obvious, doing more shooting work, or passing work combined with more drills in sub-groups, while a striker might work outside in 'the nets' so to speak with a youth keeper to help his shooting more.

Instead we're getting a dumbed down module that tears away this level of realistic detail for fake-realism.

[Bootador]

Much better post, but I still don't see how this isn't covered by individual focus.

You have a group session, and then additional individual focus.

What is unrealistic is telling a player to do no defensive work in training because even if he's a striker he'll be doing defensive work at some point in training whether you like it or not. You can't mould every player into how you want them to be, and will be an excellent change as it increases the importance of buying players with the right attributes you want in the first place rather than based on star rating/PA as Joe Casual has been doing for years

Also, telling a player to work on strength category (which covers stamina, jumping, strength and work rate iirc) makes no sense either because all of them are (within reason) trained independent of each other in a real training situation - hence why being able to focus on 1 attribute makes much more sense.

Can understand your point about not allowing position and role and individual attribute training, but that's about it.

[Krald]

That's completely wrong.

A good manager could radically improve a player in specific areas, or they could make them a more general player.

This training looks dumbed down for casual players who were too stupid to work out the slider system and whined over and over for years about how bad the training was because they couldn't develop their players.

Now I have less control over my players development and that isn't good.

Now we've got generic training based on player roles. Terrible decision. Yet more pandering to casual players.

And too time consuming adjusting a slider for each position.

What? casual players? the old system more time consuming? I dont understand this, the old system seemed simpler to me, you set it up once, leave it pretty much for years unless you need to tweak things for an individual player. Wheras this seems to be geared up to be tweaked and changed constantly through the season. If anything, it sounds like this system will be more time consuming to me.

Edit: seems another beat me to such a comment, but still, comment stands, it seems silly to call it dumbed down.

[Bababui]

It dumbed down in the sense that the player has lost some control over player development through interface simplifying; its going to be far more annoying and time-consuming because of the need to constantly tweak. SI have been making the game more annoying for a few years now with such amazingly time-consuming features as press conferences; team talks; and individual talks. None of these things have made for a better gaming experience.

[spankie]

Hence why most of them have probably been removed from FMC

[wally13]

It dumbed down in the sense that the player has lost some control over player development through interface simplifying; its going to be far more annoying and time-consuming because of the need to constantly tweak. SI have been making the game more annoying for a few years now with such amazingly time-consuming features as press conferences; team talks; and individual talks. None of these things have made for a better gaming experience.

Well I'm not going to argue about training anymore as at end of day it's all personal opinion lets all just wait till demo and try it then comment, surely its the only fair way, As for features i agree some are tedious i don't use press conferences hardly but again you must know your self if they released the game each year with hardly anything new people would moan there's nothing new in the game, All these thing are 2 way arguments were never all going to agree which is good in a way

[Gee_Simpson]

But every player can have one and the new training module is a step away from realism.

Yes but wally is right. Most teams IRL train in groups. Yes of course a player can work on his own game himself but generally training is always a group session. The only individual training I can think of IRL is players returning from injury so they are separated from the group to work with the fitness coach until fit and goalkeepers obviously work with goalkeeper coaches, sometimes separated from the main group.

SI have obviously researched this too (as Riz mentioned) and this have been their findings.

[Bababui]

Yes but wally is right. Most teams IRL train in groups. Yes of course a player can work on his own game himself but generally training is always a group session. The only individual training I can think of IRL is players returning from injury so they are separated from the group to work with the fitness coach until fit and goalkeepers obviously work with goalkeeper coaches, sometimes separated from the main group.

SI have obviously researched this too (as Riz mentioned) and this have been their findings.

You are confusing training alone with individually focused training. Individually focused training can mean a small group of players from certain positions can do extra work on specific aspects of the game. It happens all the time and in all sports. And there is no one single way team train; there are many ways IRL..but not on FM.

[Bababui]

Well I'm not going to argue about training anymore as at end of day it's all personal opinion lets all just wait till demo and try it then comment, surely its the only fair way, As for features i agree some are tedious i don't use press conferences hardly but again you must know your self if they released the game each year with hardly anything new people would moan there's nothing new in the game, All these thing are 2 way arguments were never all going to agree which is good in a way

If they focused on vast improvements of AI roster and tactics management over these other cosmetic features IMO that would be a massive selling point. Debate is a good thing.

[wally13]

If they focused on vast improvements of AI roster and tactics management over these other cosmetic features IMO that would be a massive selling point. Debate is a good thing.

I 100% Agree I've stated in a few threads we need better A.I I think we all know that but the game still needs new features as i can guarantee there be as many people moaning there's nothing new in the game as there is people saying don't had new features and fix current one's

Oh and as for training lol just so you know i had nothing against the old 1 but it's nice to see it's hopefully been improved

[Gee_Simpson]

You are confusing training alone with individually focused training. Individually focused training can mean a small group of players from certain positions can do extra work on specific aspects of the game. It happens all the time and in all sports. And there is no one single way team train; there are many ways IRL..but not on FM.

Yes of course but I do reckon for the most part, football teams train in groups but yeah it was always nice to have that individual option in FM like you do IRL (I create individual schedules for nearly every player in my squad!). Although I reckon individual focus is now SI's interpretation individual training instead. I will miss that level of customisation though as I love developing youth players.

[hursty2]

What? casual players? the old system more time consuming? I dont understand this, the old system seemed simpler to me, you set it up once, leave it pretty much for years unless you need to tweak things for an individual player. Wheras this seems to be geared up to be tweaked and changed constantly through the season. If anything, it sounds like this system will be more time consuming to me.

Edit: seems another beat me to such a comment, but still, comment stands, it seems silly to call it dumbed down.

Time consuming, in the sense that if you wanted to get an advantage from training you had to set up ones for each position/player.

[davidbowie]

I think some people are missing the point of those who want the old style back.

Just because we want individual training does not mean we think that real life players all train individually. Individual training does not mean we think players literally go on their own to train. We mean individual managed training within a system of team - group - player training sets.

The reality is that players will train as a whole group, in sub-groups (def, mid, fwds), in small 2/3 man groups and on their own.

We feel that the individual training represents an abstract way of allocating players to do more or less work that the rest of the team in certain areas, which is represented in real life by micromanaged player training as well as the whole group -> subgroup -> 3 man groups -> individual training -> specifically attribute training that all players go through and that represents the level of intensity in a specific area.

We also feel that the change to the training that means players can only ever train in a pre-set role or train an attribute is unrealistic and rips choice away form the user, to the detriment of those who have put the effort into the game to learn how the training module works.

We do not believe that SI should completely remove the new system, but that they should make sure that the old system remains available.

[Dave80]

To be honest I'm most interested in how the new training schedule will affect Part-Time players. For lower/non-league clubs it is common to have a lot of part time players and coaches, so will the amount of training days available be adjusted to fit in with the time these players and coaches are going to be available to train? Maybe having training times such as evenings for part-time players and half day for others (such as recently recovered injuries or the day before and after a match) rather than just resting them from training completely). Also setting up 2 different training regiemes for the same day (half for one and half for the other) would also add more of a variety and an in-depth feel to the training.

Really pleased with the addition of Coaching Badges and Training Camps, will look forward to see how these improve the gameplay in the longer run!

[spankie]

I do remember a previous FM a few years ago that in tactics you could assign a role to a player. It was possible to create new roles and put them in the same folder and they would appear in the game. Perhaps we can do something similar with the new training schedules in FM13. We won't know until the demo is released.

If it isn't possible then perhaps SI could code functionality so that people can create unique training schedules for their players using a schedul editor.

[cellinis]

I don't post much but I read often, and personally, I don't quite appreciate the new changes to training. Where there is talk of 'realism' vs 'dumbing down', I would merely like to point out that individual training focus is nothing if not unrealistic.

In simplest terms, if a player is asked to improve his dribbling skills, he will automatically improve other skills related to ball control, as well as physical attributes such as agility and balance, as they are all intrinsic to being an effective dribbler, and are trained at the same time you train your dribbling skills. Now, if individual training focus had been changed, and instead of a single skill, had turned into ball control/defending/aerobics/whatever, it would have given the realism argument some weight.

For the moment though, it is just about taking away a bit of control we had over the way the game works, and I fail to see any positives in that.

The same argument (since somehow the tactic creator has become linked with the new training) applies to tactics as well. It's all fine and dandy to have a shiny tactic creator, but it is far too limited to be of actual match day use. A simple example:

My opponent's left back is having a bad game. I want to make use of it. I want to overload him. How exactly, via the tactic creator, do I tell my right back and RCM to move in his direction, while my right winger works the channels and my striker stays more central? Look for overlap? But I sure as hell don't want my left back to be bombing forward (maybe because Jesus Navas is already giving him a torrid time!) In the same vein, there is no way I can use the tactic creator to tell my LCM to stay deeper, but when we have the ball, bomb forward, or stagger two 'support-minded' midfielders.

Ease of use is always welcome, because there is way too much micromanagement in the game (and mostly linked to useless emails/information, which you would think that the backroom staff would filter for you). But taking control away from players is not welcome.

[Kenco]

Plenty of negativity in this thread but I have to say I like the look of this training system. The current way just seems like a chore and doesn't feel like training at all, just moving sliders around. This is doing to training what TC did for tactics and I'm looking forward to it.

[Dave80]

I don't post much but I read often, and personally, I don't quite appreciate the new changes to training. Where there is talk of 'realism' vs 'dumbing down', I would merely like to point out that individual training focus is nothing if not unrealistic.

In simplest terms, if a player is asked to improve his dribbling skills, he will automatically improve other skills related to ball control, as well as physical attributes such as agility and balance, as they are all intrinsic to being an effective dribbler, and are trained at the same time you train your dribbling skills. Now, if individual training focus had been changed, and instead of a single skill, had turned into ball control/defending/aerobics/whatever, it would have given the realism argument some weight.

For the moment though, it is just about taking away a bit of control we had over the way the game works, and I fail to see any positives in that.

The same argument (since somehow the tactic creator has become linked with the new training) applies to tactics as well. It's all fine and dandy to have a shiny tactic creator, but it is far too limited to be of actual match day use. A simple example:

My opponent's left back is having a bad game. I want to make use of it. I want to overload him. How exactly, via the tactic creator, do I tell my right back and RCM to move in his direction, while my right winger works the channels and my striker stays more central? Look for overlap? But I sure as hell don't want my left back to be bombing forward (maybe because Jesus Navas is already giving him a torrid time!) In the same vein, there is no way I can use the tactic creator to tell my LCM to stay deeper, but when we have the ball, bomb forward, or stagger two 'support-minded' midfielders.

Ease of use is always welcome, because there is way too much micromanagement in the game (and mostly linked to useless emails/information, which you would think that the backroom staff would filter for you). But taking control away from players is not welcome.

But how do we know that these areas won't be improved as a result of this? What if in order to go from 12-15 in Dribbling the player has to improve other attributes such as Balance and Agility? We, simply, don't know.

You are correct to deduce that that "in reality" you would need to improve the skills listed in order to become good at dribbling, but as this is the first time in the series that this system has been introduced we cannot verify anything until the game or demo is actually released!

[Ainu]

I think all in all it's a good evolution. I didn't like the way you had to set up training schedules before. I used to create some pretty specific role-based schedules like defensive mid, deep playmaker, second striker, winger, etc, but I didn't like the actual process of putting them together. The fact all roles from the tactics module are now available in training not only relieves me of that tedious job, it also ties training and tactics neatly together. Yes it's true you lose some flexibility but not for the sake of dumbing it down as some have argued. What I see is a more consistent and logical game.

What they could've done though, is allow the user to create custom player roles which would obviously appear in both the tactics and training module. I think that would've satisfied those that are complaining about the loss of customizability while maintaining the consistency across tactics and training. That's a bit of a missed opportunity and the only downside to what I consider a serious improvement over the old systems. Sure most contemporary (and even outdated) roles are present, but people like to invent new things. Still it's a massive improvement and something I hope they expand on in the future.

[BSX]

I don't like the new look of the training screen, it looks too much like the cheap, useless and basic fifa training.

[cellinis]

But how do we know that these areas won't be improved as a result of this? What if in order to go from 12-15 in Dribbling the player has to improve other attributes such as Balance and Agility? We, simply, don't know.

You are correct to deduce that that "in reality" you would need to improve the skills listed in order to become good at dribbling, but as this is the first time in the series that this system has been introduced we cannot verify anything until the game or demo is actually released!

You are quite right, mate. Until the game comes out, it is quite impossible to be certain of anything. Nonetheless, the basic instruction you are giving your player/coach does reveal a tad, doesn't it? Especially since, from what I have understood from the video and the posts (perhaps wrongly), is that the underlying system of training has not changed, merely the UI.