ddidiodion Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 "recoup what we paid for him" He's paid for himself about 3 times over ffs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aderow Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 I'm with Dion on this one. Rooney has done well more than his fair share for our club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Who are these players we're going to bring in? We're bursting at the seams with talented youngsters all over the show, both established in the first team and waiting in the wings. The only really shallow part of the squad is defensive midfield and I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting we offload Rooney for a backup midfield spoiler. So we should really be looking at world class talents. The only obvious spaces we're lacking is in central midfield and out wide. How many players are out there who offer a better than evens chance of improving us versus sticking with Rooney? Of those who would come, how many could we afford, etc? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott MUFC Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Bale, Lewendowski.... I dunno, prolly end up with enough buttons, and fluff behind the sofa to perhaps buy someone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 I personally think Rooney is either at or past his peak. He won't be getting any better but he is getting fatter and slower. He's always looking to pass the ball when he gets it now ratherthan burst forward with it. The question is whether that's Rooney fitting the circumstances or Rooneys circumstances affecting his role. I think it's more the latter than the former. I'm not saying he's rubbish but he seems to be having fewer and fewer games where he's brilliant. Fergie seems to think he's hitting his peak I don't think Rooney is the kind of player that will be at the very, very top level too far into his 30s. He does seem to hit it a bit hard in the off-season and it takes him time/games to hit his stride at the start of every season. That's not really on, is it a fitness thing or dedication thing? You'd think the club would be coming down on hard on making sure players don't go off the rails, fitness wise, in the off season or maybe he just piles it on if not super training? He hasn't done the bursting forward thing for a long time. I remember when he came onto the scene, he was terrifying when he had the ball at this feet, gather it and just rampage forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldberg Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 What Ferguson says & what he thinks are two very different things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 From what I can see, the problem is that Rooney is on world-class wages but isn't quite world-class in his performances (the consistency I mean). How many truly outstanding seasons has he had for us? 2 maybe 3? Is that enough for a player touted as being the best English player? He's not a player who wins games on his own either a la Ronaldo or Messi and he suffers by comparison with current 'star' names such as Bale. If someone wants to pay £35-40 Mill for him, I say bite their hand off, develop Welbz and Chicha further and buy a world-class midfielder, who will perform at that highest level. Let's try something: If you had to rate Utd's top 5 players over this season, would Rooney get in? Mine would be in no particular order: Carrick, RVP, DDG, Rafael, Welbz Welbz gets in because he performed in some of our biggest games and I can see a world-class player bursting to get out. I'd add Rio, Evans, Vidic and Evra before I even get to Rooney... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Another example of "SAF thinks vs SAF says".... "Nani is staying next season". Hope he is, but unless he signs a new contract soon, which I quite frankly doubt given how little game time he has gotten, Nani will not stay. We won't risk him leaving for a pittance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 He does seem to hit it a bit hard in the off-season and it takes him time/games to hit his stride at the start of every season. That's not really on, is it a fitness thing or dedication thing? You'd think the club would be coming down on hard on making sure players don't go off the rails, fitness wise, in the off season or maybe he just piles it on if not super training? Given all the talk around him not starting against Madrid and his 'frame' it would seem to be a general fitness thing rather an issue with Rooney's discipline (though as Coldberg says, what the club say and the true feelings behind the scenes are not necessarily the same). Hopefully a full pre-season will help him hit the ground running next season. From what I can see, the problem is that Rooney is on world-class wages but isn't quite world-class in his performances (the consistency I mean). How many truly outstanding seasons has he had for us? 2 maybe 3? Is that enough for a player touted as being the best English player? He's not a player who wins games on his own either a la Ronaldo or Messi and he suffers by comparison with current 'star' names such as Bale. If someone wants to pay £35-40 Mill for him, I say bite their hand off, develop Welbz and Chicha further and buy a world-class midfielder, who will perform at that highest level.Let's try something: If you had to rate Utd's top 5 players over this season, would Rooney get in? Mine would be in no particular order: Carrick, RVP, DDG, Rafael, Welbz Welbz gets in because he performed in some of our biggest games and I can see a world-class player bursting to get out. I'd add Rio, Evans, Vidic and Evra before I even get to Rooney... The wages thing only really applies if you can bring someone in who'll deliver more for that money, such as the world class midfielder you reference; but who really is there who'd be a viable target? Of the players you mention only Welbeck could even be debatable as to whether he's had a better season than Rooney, but other than RvP he's the only attacker on there, and he only has two goals all season. Attackers always carry a premium price tag in both fee and wages and other than van Persie Rooney is the only player to hit double figures for us in the league this season. Talking about replacing him with Lewandowski doesn't really work because you want to play Lewi furthest forward; i.e. where RvP plays. Sure you could drop him back to accommodate Lewandowski, but why would you gamble the 'guaranteed' return van Persie offers on the hope that Lewandowski can translate his Bundesliga form better than Kagawa has, for example. You'd then still be left with obvious issues in midfield and on the flanks while further marginalising Hernandez and Welbeck; not to mention limiting chances for Henriquez and Keane and arguably players who can play off the front such as Kagawa and Januzaj. Bale is fair enough I think, if we can somehow get Spurs to do business and he costs the earth which has to be offset by Rooney moving to PSG for some £20m or so less than Bale costs then I think it's hard to argue with that; not sure it'll happen though. Think he'll either stay at Spurs for another year or jack it abroad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Can't see Bale moving to us at all. Have zero faith in that. Spurs will do everything they can to keep him, but if he is to be sold, it will be abroad if they can help it. Ronaldo is probably more likely tbh (but still a bit of a pipedream). If the statistics on ESPN can be trusted, Rooney has 16 goals and 13 assists in 31 starts and 5 subs. Hardly poor. He hasn't had a fantastic season, but I don't agree that he's been relatively poor either. If anything, it says something about his capacity that he still provides almost a goal a match when not being on top of his game, and often being used further back. He is a very good player and Rooney and RVP has gotten a pretty good understanding going. I have no doubt we would be weaker if he leaves. Will be an interesting and worrysome summer though. Rooney, Nani, Anderson, plus smaller worries about Vidic, Chicharito and Lindegaard. Scholes probably hanging up his boots, and then I hope Rio signs on for another year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Given all the talk around him not starting against Madrid and his 'frame' it would seem to be a general fitness thing rather an issue with Rooney's discipline (though as Coldberg says, what the club say and the true feelings behind the scenes are not necessarily the same). Hopefully a full pre-season will help him hit the ground running next season.The wages thing only really applies if you can bring someone in who'll deliver more for that money, such as the world class midfielder you reference; but who really is there who'd be a viable target? Of the players you mention only Welbeck could even be debatable as to whether he's had a better season than Rooney, but other than RvP he's the only attacker on there, and he only has two goals all season. Attackers always carry a premium price tag in both fee and wages and other than van Persie Rooney is the only player to hit double figures for us in the league this season. Talking about replacing him with Lewandowski doesn't really work because you want to play Lewi furthest forward; i.e. where RvP plays. Sure you could drop him back to accommodate Lewandowski, but why would you gamble the 'guaranteed' return van Persie offers on the hope that Lewandowski can translate his Bundesliga form better than Kagawa has, for example. You'd then still be left with obvious issues in midfield and on the flanks while further marginalising Hernandez and Welbeck; not to mention limiting chances for Henriquez and Keane and arguably players who can play off the front such as Kagawa and Januzaj. Bale is fair enough I think, if we can somehow get Spurs to do business and he costs the earth which has to be offset by Rooney moving to PSG for some £20m or so less than Bale costs then I think it's hard to argue with that; not sure it'll happen though. Think he'll either stay at Spurs for another year or jack it abroad. It could be argued though that if we either adjust the formation or play someone in Rooney's place that they would contribute more than Rooney and be in the top 5 players of the season. Look at how Dortmund have adjusted to losing Kagawa's goals and assists this season. It's like the argument that RVP has won us the league, well he's certainly helped but without his goals last season, we came pretty damn close because other players contributed assists and goals. Utd have the players to contribute assists and score goals all over the pitch - it's the performance, attitude and key game goals and assists that matter at the end of a long season. I'd also argue that RVP didn't contribute enough of those (key game goals) - he had several misses in the 2 European games against Madrid that could be argued to cost us. But maybe that's me being greedy that I want European success almost more than the Premiership atm. I'd be happy if Rooney stays but I won't cry if he leaves as it gives others an opportunity to show what they can do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_ Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Nani stays and starts on the right next season... like a new signing. Seriously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 If only..if only... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 It could be argued though that if we either adjust the formation or play someone in Rooney's place that they would contribute more than Rooney and be in the top 5 players of the season. Look at how Dortmund have adjusted to losing Kagawa's goals and assists this season. It's like the argument that RVP has won us the league, well he's certainly helped but without his goals last season, we came pretty damn close because other players contributed assists and goals. Seems like an odd way to go around things though. We've already reshaped the team by degrees over the past few years and now have a strong young squad with areas to address in midfield and out wide. But no, lets get rid of someone who is contributing and rejig things again on a maybe. I'd also argue that RVP didn't contribute enough of those (key game goals) - he had several misses in the 2 European games against Madrid that could be argued to cost us. Can't agree with this. Missed chances against Madrid (and has missed presentable chances throughout the season; a testament to how good his movement is imo) but he's scored our first against Fulham, Saints, Cluj, Arsenal, Braga, West Ham, Sunderland, Liverpool, Spurs, Villa and Arsenal and winners against Southampton, Liverpool, Cluj, Reading, city and Villa; plus some equalisers and turnaround goals that I can't be bothered to research in too great detail. Scored against all of the top eight this season with Swansea at home to come for an opportunity to make it the top 13 (bloody Norwich). Not like he's got a host of padding in his record this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 What Ferguson says & what he thinks are two very different things. Be interesting if there's another summer of him coming to pre-season all chunky and stuff again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Ladygarden and Clevz start, no Nani even on the bench Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggaeBwoy Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Is SAF driving Hernandez out of the club or what? What else does he have to do to get a start? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Very surprising lineup. Was sure Chicha would start. And no DDG or Carrick? Blimey. I'm worried now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltaroad Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Anderson looking tired during warm up. Anderson will not last past the 75min mark. Also doesn't Hernandez supposedly have a good record against Chelsea? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_ Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Scholes is back Anderson has only completed 90 minutes 18 times in 6 seasons? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted May 5, 2013 Author Share Posted May 5, 2013 Valencia is a parody of a Sunday league player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 I actually despise Valencia, ****ing useless ****! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Rooney really is a stroppy cow at the moment. Hope he gets a summer of no pies and comes back stronger. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Horrible match by us, but bloody hell do I dislike the diving, cheating rats in that Chelskij team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltaroad Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Anderson again unable to complete a match. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 I actually despise Valencia, ****ing useless ****! Genuinely baffled as to how he can play so poor all season and get so much game time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_ Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 I don't understand why Hernandez and Nani didn't start. I've given up on Anderson. It's not going to happen at United. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Genuinely baffled as to how he can play so poor all season and get so much game time. Horrible feeling to realise Nani will probably be sold this summer while we keep the vastly inferior Valencia Give him another shirt, maybe he'll start playing football again.. :shrug: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Anderson again unable to complete a match. Anderson who last started again in March Anderson? Yeah, funny that - almost as though match fitness is an actual thing; as though he's built up to lasting to the final ten minutes of matches before being dropped. More significantly, he was pretty bloody good. Again. Bleh, season's long over and Fergie's even playing teams to reflect that now. Thought Ando, Jones and Evans in particular were good. Would like to see more of the Anderson-Jones-Cleverley triumvirate next season should we fail to find a buyer for Anderson or he get injured or something - there were some good combinations at times though Clevs suffered for his Giggs' Legs role, particularly in the second half. Love how Top Red Howard Webb likes to pull out a bonkers decision against us every once in a while. Remember Ronaldo's red at Eastlands a few years back? Will surely be rescinded so he won't miss the start of next season - the Shield? Funny thing about Valencia is that today was actually an improvement on much of his season. He did at least look interested and was getting into promising areas, but the end product was nowhere to be seen. Think some of that was playing with only one striker - Valencia tends to overhit his crosses and when there's one fewer body in the box or the guy on the far side has tucked in then it's all the more likely to miss all our lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltaroad Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Anderson plays 1 game a month. Really not good enough, fitness or injury it is really time to get rid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Played 7 in November. Don't talk bollocks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Aye, I actually think Anderson played quite well today. Drove forward when he had the chance and did his job defensively. Obviously not quite match-fit as he looked to tire in the 2nd half, but overall pleased with him. He hasn't developed nearly as well as we hoped though, there can be little doubt about that. But it would be a bit strange to sell him when we have so few central midfield options. Pretty sure he wants away though to try and play himself into the Brazil squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted May 5, 2013 Author Share Posted May 5, 2013 Bit of a daft team he put out there, should have had Rooney and Hernandez leading the line really. Result doesn't mean anything but it would have been nice to win, suppose if it encourages Spurs to sell Bale and keep Benitez at Chelsea longer it's worth the hit. Anderson was ok, but ok for an hour doesn't really cut it, needs to go back to Brazil. Amazed at how many people are revelling in the Luiz thing though, I'd always assumed Phil was fairly level-headed but even he seems to be enjoying it on twitter guess the pressure if getting to their heads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggaeBwoy Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Aye, I actually think Anderson played quite well today. Drove forward when he had the chance and did his job defensively. Obviously not quite match-fit as he looked to tire in the 2nd half, but overall pleased with him. He hasn't developed nearly as well as we hoped though, there can be little doubt about that. But it would be a bit strange to sell him when we have so few central midfield options. Pretty sure he wants away though to try and play himself into the Brazil squad. Even from a Chelsea fan, I think he is being unfairly targeted. Could not settle first 20 mins but thought he done quite well onwards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Powell starting and Januzaj on the bench would be brilliant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted May 5, 2013 Author Share Posted May 5, 2013 You'd think Cole and Lingard would be getting some bench time already, they can both play out wide if required and we're hardly flourishing out there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 True, haven't seen Powell in some time but not heard anything about him being injured either. Highly doubt he will play given the lack of minutes lately, but it would be great to see him for the first team again. I know he is young, but he has played less than I thought he would. Januzaj on the bench is a real possibility though, and perhaps some of the others mentioned too. Will be interesting to see what SAF does with Michael Keane next season. He has done very well for Leicester and will start knocking on the door soon enough. Probably another loan, hopefully to the PL, as there is so much competition for central defence already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggaeBwoy Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 With Hull being promoted I would hope there could be an opportunity for a few loans there next season. Powell and Keane maybe. Is Powell capable of prem footy yet. Hardly seen him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldberg Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Was the red card actually a red? At the game it looked like it was ridiculous but so ridiculous that it could've been the most blatant red you've ever seen kind of thing. Looked like Luiz backheeled it out of play then dropped to the ground whilst kicking his legs out like he had been caught. Although Rafael seemed to have stayed on his feet and just used his upper body. Wouldn't mind but it's not like it was a dirt game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_ Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 http://i.minus.com/iBhpNttXkO9BG.gif http://i.minus.com/ibevm3P0mefEsn.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
el sid Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Was the red card actually a red? At the game it looked like it was ridiculous but so ridiculous that it could've been the most blatant red you've ever seen kind of thing. Looked like Luiz backheeled it out of play then dropped to the ground whilst kicking his legs out like he had been caught. Although Rafael seemed to have stayed on his feet and just used his upper body. Wouldn't mind but it's not like it was a dirt game. Was a pretty blatant kick out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Anderson who last started again in March Anderson? Yeah, funny that - almost as though match fitness is an actual thing; as though he's built up to lasting to the final ten minutes of matches before being dropped. More significantly, he was pretty bloody good. Again.Bleh, season's long over and Fergie's even playing teams to reflect that now. Thought Ando, Jones and Evans in particular were good. Would like to see more of the Anderson-Jones-Cleverley triumvirate next season should we fail to find a buyer for Anderson or he get injured or something - there were some good combinations at times though Clevs suffered for his Giggs' Legs role, particularly in the second half. Love how Top Red Howard Webb likes to pull out a bonkers decision against us every once in a while. Remember Ronaldo's red at Eastlands a few years back? Will surely be rescinded so he won't miss the start of next season - the Shield? Funny thing about Valencia is that today was actually an improvement on much of his season. He did at least look interested and was getting into promising areas, but the end product was nowhere to be seen. Think some of that was playing with only one striker - Valencia tends to overhit his crosses and when there's one fewer body in the box or the guy on the far side has tucked in then it's all the more likely to miss all our lot. Agree completely with RSB here. Shame how Rooney is becoming a shadow of his former self... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldberg Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 So a yellow and not a red? The point I was trying to make was that we hadn't missed somethin like an elbow or ssomething. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_ Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 I thought he'd get a yellow, yeah. Still do. It was a straight red, yeah? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett.spurs Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Can't go around kicking people in frustration. Deserved red. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_ Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Massey in that gif :D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_ Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 OptaJoe @OptaJoe56m 5 - No team has conceded more own goals than Man Utd in the Premier League this season (QPR & Southampton 5 also). Generous. Why has Own Goals turned on us? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott MUFC Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 cant lie on the floor grinning because he got sent off either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooders86 Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 cant lie on the floor grinning because he got sent off either. tbf i dont think he had been sent off when Luiz was on the floor grinning? unless he was rolling on the floor for a while. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 cant lie on the floor grinning because he got sent off either. It doesn't really matter if he's grinning or not regarding the kick out. Luiz sort of leap away from it a bit as he got kicked too. Basically, he wasn't hurt and was acting like a git like all the other gits in football and until they stop rewarding diving and cheating we can expect more of this kind of stuff. The lineswoman was right there so saw the kick out in front of her, regardless of Luiz's reaction. I assume the red was given for the actual kicking out not the fact it hurt Luiz Personally, I think a straight red for that is a bit harsh but well, he did kick out so I can see how a red could be shown but for me, I think a yellow is fine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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