scott MUFC

too many bookings in this game?

82 posts in this topic

in certain situations a yellow card is fine, but left and right backs and strikers always seem to get booked very often, for both teams. it is leading to these players being sent off in some games for very little.

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I think it depends in the league you are managing. In Italy, it's a rare thing if you can end a match without a single yellow card.

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[quote name='scott MUFC']in certain situations a yellow card is fine, but left and right backs and strikers always seem to get booked very often, for both teams. it is leading to these players being sent off in some games for very little.[/QUOTE]

Check the player instructions for these positions because there is nothing in the game code that picks out certain psitions for bookings.

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[quote name='vasilli07']I think it depends in the league you are managing. In Italy, it's a rare thing if you can end a match without a single yellow card.[/QUOTE]

They sure seem to like dishing cards out in the SPL as well, finished this game with 8 men but that's what I get for letting Johan Mjallby set my oi's for me I guess.:(

[IMG]http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u339/slipknot261175/MotherwellvCelticInformation_Overview.png[/IMG]

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Some stats from the 3 big leagues based on 1 season.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/e3U9W.png[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Vbe5g.png[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/AFoN9.png[/IMG]

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i'm using default settings not increasing/decreasing tackling and playing very fluid so this is default

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I would say this version of FM is the best in this respect. Previous versions were far too card-shy imo, but in FM12 I actually managed to pick up a fine for having six players booked in a game.

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[quote name='scott MUFC']i'm using default settings not increasing/decreasing tackling and playing very fluid so this is default[/QUOTE]

Its not just about the tackling. As well as player attritbutes/aggression/dirtiness/PPMs/condition etc (we'll put those aside for now), players will also be forced into sloppy/late tackles if they are being forced to make challenges to avoid danger, In the full back positions I've found its because they are under severe pressure from the opposition wide man, and are getting skinned, or in danger of getting skinned. Have a look at the kind of play leading up to their bookings, cant say I see my forwards get too many bookings though so cant offer anything there sorry.

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I believe referees have attributes too that determines the number of cards he dishes out or how harsh he can be.

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[quote name='vasilli07']I believe referees have attributes too that determines the number of cards he dishes out or how harsh he can be.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure of this. Me and some mates did a season in the Irish leagues, and one of the refs picked up a rather unflattering nickname, because he tended to average 5 or 6 yellow cards every match.

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[quote name='vasilli07']I believe referees have attributes too that determines the number of cards he dishes out or how harsh he can be.[/QUOTE]
It's the discipline rating. The higher the more they like to play with cards.

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The statistics overall I would imagine match up to real life numbers quite well, that's what they look for in their soak tests. However there are too many bookings being handed out in the first couple of minutes in a match. Had one where there were 2 in the first minute, 3 in the first three and finally five in the first ten minutes of the game - every single one of them for a standing tackle in a non-dangerous situation. That's quite frankly ridiculous and I don't think would ever happen in reality whereas it's not that rare in FM.

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Seem to be a ton more since the patch to be fair, played a game as Toulouse and had something like 6 bookings and it seems to be my full backs pretty much EVERY game, what pisses me off more than anything is they are such soft bookings, you can back into someone a minute into the match and get booked I mean what the hell? the bookings on this game are pretty disgraceful and even though you can question some red cards in real life, I barely ever question yellows or feel they are too harsh or soft whereas on FM it seems the vast majority of yellow cards are harsh and/or soft and I rarely see a red.

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Bookings in my game are less than Real Life in the EPL, so no issues for me.

My squad is also the most discipline, half the amount of red and yellow cards than anyone else..

All good here.

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chris smalling
played 19
14 yellows 2 reds... playing at right back
aggression only 14

Nemanja vidic
played 22/5
8 yellows
aggression 18
playing Centre back

Rio ferdinand
played 21/3
yellow cards 3
aggression 8
played at centre back

patrice evra
played 20
yellow cards 8 red cards 1
aggression 15
left back

doe not explain much, but smalling is getting far to many yellows, vidic should be getting loads, he doesnt. and the red cards are L/R backs

fabio has also picked up 4 yellows in 4 apperances - 13 aggression

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[quote name='scott MUFC']chris smalling
played 19
14 yellows 2 reds... playing at right back
aggression only 14

Nemanja vidic
played 22/5
8 yellows
aggression 18
playing Centre back

Rio ferdinand
played 21/3
yellow cards 3
aggression 8
played at centre back

patrice evra
played 20
yellow cards 8 red cards 1
aggression 15
left back

doe not explain much, but smalling is getting far to many yellows, vidic should be getting loads, he doesnt. and the red cards are L/R backs

fabio has also picked up 4 yellows in 4 apperances - 13 aggression[/QUOTE]

Have a look at how you are getting them for smalling, because im willing to bet they are coming from tackles under pressure.

Fabio is fabio, picks them up for fairly often, his position stat isnt great at the start, and if he is playing high up the pitch he can be caught out easily, thus leading to a rash tackle.

Dont see why Vidic should be getting loads though, high aggressive, but his postioning, marking, anticipation, tackling, concentraction are all superb. What roles do your full backs have?

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they are just central defenders set to defend
but are forward for corners.
and smalling picks up another yellow... and does the same thing minutes later and doesnt get sent off

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My FBs stats are thus:

1st choice DR: P 34 (3) Y 5 R 0
1st choice DL: P 36 (4) Y 4 R 0
Rotation DR/L: P 19 (4) Y 3 R 0
New Signing DL: P 8 Y 2 R 0
Young Cover: P 2 Y 0 R 0
Veteran Cover: P 11 (4) Y 1 R 0

In total:

P 110 (15) Y 15 R 0

As per usual, your problem is because of something you are doing, not inherent to the game.

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it isn't something i am doing. attacking+very fluid with no added defencive dutys from the defaults. no get stuck in.

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[quote name='scott MUFC']it isn't something i am doing. attacking+very fluid with no added defencive dutys from the defaults. no get stuck in.[/QUOTE]

Ok. It isn't. Your ratio of 1 card every 0.65 FB appearances versus mine of 1 every 0.13 appearances is 100% down to FM being out to get you.

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From my experience bookings are fine,with some minor exceptions where in some cases defenders that closed down quickly up the pitch for a tactical fault should get booking more offen.

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[quote name='scott MUFC']it isn't something i am doing. attacking+very fluid with no added defencive dutys from the defaults. no get stuck in.[/QUOTE]

Your fullbacks are getting forced to make last ditch tackles, this is why i was asking what roles and approach. They will be very high up the pitch, and more likely to be caught out by balls over the top, or balls in the wide spaces. Smalling is likely getting skinned, and having to make last ditch tackles. Fabio isnt great positionally to start off with and that can often put him in a bad starting point leading to a rash tackle, the fact that it is your full backs getting the bookings more than anyone backs this up for me.

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yea seems so, but they are doing it too far up the pitch, phil jones got himself sent off now -_-, i dont mind them tackling but when they are in the final third lol

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[quote name='scott MUFC']yea seems so, but they are doing it too far up the pitch, phil jones got himself sent off now -_-, i dont mind them tackling but when they are in the final third lol[/QUOTE]

Try playing with them with a support role, or even a slightly deeper line, so they arent being exposed all the time.

Remember Jones has the gets forward at all times PPM as well, so he will bound up that flank, and can get caught on the counter.

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I had this problem even though I had set tackling to normal. A further look into player instructions showed me that I had 6 players on hard tackling including both strikers who needless to say are awful at it. My bookings has gone down since so I would check to make sure.

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If you're worried about too many booking play in Germany, the ref's there are as lenient as they get.

Using a very similar tactical approach to one I've used in Portugal, England, Italy, Scotland & Spain I hardly ever have players sent off (struggling to recall one in the last 5 seasons) & if I get 3 bookings in a match then it's been a rough game, I've seen games with over 40 fouls not have a single booking.

IMHO there is a flaw in the ME when it comes to officiating but I cannot pin down what it is.

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There's definatley something going on with foreign referees in this game. Don't know if it's meant to replicate RL with Premier league officials being more used to seeing rough & tumble matches and foreign refs used to a more technical game. God help them when they see a player actually tackle another player, theyre brains must go completely mental!

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[quote name='Barside']

IMHO there is a flaw in the ME when it comes to officiating but I cannot pin down what it is.[/QUOTE]

Ah the old "i dont know if there is a bug here but im going find it one way or another" ;) hahahaha

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[quote name='milnerpoint']Ah the old "i dont know if there is a bug here but im going find it one way or another" ;) hahahaha[/QUOTE]
I'll have you know that I'm very thorough when it comes to investigating odd behaviour & the game has proven me wrong a few times.

Bookings are an odd one as there is a correlation between FM & real world numbers but having managed in different leagues around Europe I'm of the opinion that this is solely due to a contrived adjustment in officials.

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[quote name='Barside']I'll have you know that I'm very thorough when it comes to investigating odd behaviour & the game has proven me wrong a few times.

Bookings are an odd one as there is a correlation between FM & real world numbers but having managed in different leagues around Europe I'm of the opinion that this is solely due to a contrived adjustment in officials.[/QUOTE]

I know you do, you post a good number of bugs you find, a helpful fanboi ;) hahaha
I couldnt really comment i have only really managed in the SPL in this version, havent really noticed anything wrong in terms of cards, few dodgy calls from time to time, especially in those contested goal situations, challenges on keepers and slow centre backs, but i dont think thats officiating mistakes in the same sense.

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I've had 52 yellows and 4 reds in the league and i've only played 21 games, surely that's not right?

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In all competitions I have had 69 yellows and 7 reds in 32 games, I'm PSG.

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[quote name='FrazT']Check the player instructions for these positions because there is nothing in the game code that picks out certain psitions for bookings.[/QUOTE]

Are you sure about that? You have programmed the referee to discipline players for tackles from behind yes? In my opinion, there are many cards being given using what seems to be that rule in the wrong situations. For instance, what I see in the animation is a player sticking out a foot to trip over a player who have just turned his behind towards him. The referee blows the whistle as if someone was murdered and quickly hands out a yellow card, evidently for something considered a vicious foul.

This happens almost every match, and has me wondering if these incidents are displayed badly in the animations or if there is simply no code to determine the force with which a tackle is performed - something which is essential to determine whether it deserves a card or is just a foul. Generally speaking, I rarely see yellow cards being given in real life when a foul has been made by a player nearly standing still, regardless of where he is on the pitch or if the tackle came from behind. The common denominator is, as said above, that these low-force fouls are done while the player having the ball is facing away from the tackler, while there seems to make little difference whether excessive force was used or not.

So, again, are you sure that these yellow cards do not happen more often to attackers set to press the opposition defense who often turn around for a backpass, and to full backs pressing the wingers when they turn away from the goal while holding up the ball (which they do very often!)?

Edit: or, as another explanation of these cards; are there too many attempts at tackling players from behind compared to real life?

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[quote name='wwfan']Ok. It isn't. Your ratio of 1 card every 0.65 FB appearances versus mine of 1 every 0.13 appearances is 100% down to FM being out to get you.[/QUOTE]

So because your FB's gets less yellows that means every FB who gets more is because the guy in charge hasn't got a clue what he's doing? sorry, but that is ridiculous even for a Moderator and I'd be surprised if the stats you posted even existed, maybe you should upload the picture and show us because you've had 15 yellows in over a hundred games spread out between your FB's which doesn't make sense.

There isn't a whole lot you can do to make your players tackle better you know, have it on easy tackling and tell the team to stay on feet? yep, I've tried that when I played as Barcelona but that didn't stop the yellows coming in, but I guess I just don't have a clue right?

So I loaded up my new Barcelona save and after 8 games played of the season these are the statistics combined from all the refs:

80 matches
347 yellow cards
17 red cards

Now, 347 yellow cards dished out in 80 matches which is 4 per game? one ref has 37 from 6 which is about 6 a game, another has 32 from 4 which is 8 a game.

The Premiership has about half as much yellow cards even though it's more physical compared to La Liga? Germany has even more by the looks of it.

Latest save from latest patch, one ref in the French league has 50 yellow cards and 2 red cards after 7 matches yet in over 100 games your FB's alone only rack up 15 whereas after 8 games my striker has already got 3? I know you're talking about Full Backs but you seem to defend FM at every corner while blaming every problem on the user, if FM was as perfect as you make it out to be we wouldn't need patches even after what, 5 months?

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Yeah Wwfan how about you back yourself up with some stats for a change........:P

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Wwfan has fullbacks who rarely get booked, he concedes 1 goal every 3 matches and barely ever sees his AM lose the ball, let me guess, your players never get injured because you're just that awesome and they have a pass percentage of about 98% because again, you are just that damn good? all you seem to do is defend the game based on your own experiences providing zero proof while saying anyone that experiences something they don't agree with pretty much sucks.

That guy got 2 red cards yet I don't, that clearly means I'm just awesome whereas he sucks? that seems to be your logic behind everything.

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There is a very simple explanation, he knows what he is doing, more than probably anyone on the forums, he doesnt need to lie about anything as its all true.

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[quote name='milnerpoint']There is a very simple explanation, he knows what he is doing, more than probably anyone on the forums, he doesnt need to lie about anything as its all true.[/QUOTE]

Again, because he's using a different team with different players and his full backs get less yellows that means everyone else who does get more yellows doesn't know what he's doing as much as this awesome player? I highly doubt it, coming onto a forum with such nonsense is just dumb, that's like me coming here saying I scored 4 goals, if you only scored 3 then I'm better than you, you can't defend FM based on your own experience, ONE person can't come here and say FM is fine because it is for me, again it's pure nonsense.

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Look, he helps code the match engine, he knows more about the game mechanics than 99% of the people that post on these forums, what he achieves is not through luck, or buying the worlds best players, its by him actually knowing what he should be doing. He is anything but arrogant about that fact, infact he tries his best to help people, although i have no idea why when you read posts like yours.

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[quote name='milnerpoint']Look, he helps code the match engine, he knows more about the game mechanics than 99% of the people that post on these forums, what he achieves is not through luck, or buying the worlds best players, its by him actually knowing what he should be doing. He is anything but arrogant about that fact, infact he tries his best to help people, although i have no idea why when you read posts like yours.[/QUOTE]

I couldn't care less if the guy made FM all by himself, fact is saying what he says is nonsense period and even if you know more about FM than 99% of people you don't say because my FB's get less yellows it means you're a bad player, you just don't, as I said above just because 1 person has luck with yellows doesn't mean everyone else who doesn't sucks. And the guy helps people? well yeah, he's a moderator that's kinda what he's supposed to do but even then, look through his posts and you will hardly see him doing his best to help people.

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You clearly have not looked through his posts, and you also seem to have no idea why he has made that post, next time before you attack someone, know what your actually talking about. Right now your making yourself look like a fool.

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[quote name='milnerpoint']You clearly have not looked through his posts, and you also seem to have no idea why he has made that post, next time before you attack someone, know what your actually talking about. Right now your making yourself look like a fool.[/QUOTE]

I clearly have hence why I said at the end, "look through his posts" and I do know why he made that post, to defend FM by saying the person pretty much sucks because he doesn't get as many yellow cards with his FB's, next time you defend someone make sure you know what it is you're actually defending, but then again with almost 7k posts in 4 months you clearly enjoy posting nonsense, even then what I said still stands and is still true so why don't you stop defending the guy and let him defend himself.

Anyway man, I said what I had to say and I don't want to derail a thread talking about 1 guy to his fanboy, so if you want to keep defending him do it in private and I'd be happy to, but I still think the way he's posting is ridiculous regardless of how good he is or what he's done on FM etc.

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hahahaha i suggest you also think about what year it is.

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[quote name='milnerpoint']hahahaha i suggest you also think about what year it is.[/QUOTE]

Oh yeah my bad, but still mate, 6800 posts in 16 months? I wonder how many mods/SI guys you've defended in that time, stop being a little fanboy and take it to private.

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I defend all the mods, especially Ackter, he is my hero.

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To be honest not sure what the fuss is about. I pointed out to the OP where i though he was going wrong, and he seemed to agree. I'm playing as United, I have the same back line as him, and his bookings are 3 times as high as mine. I did have a problem similar to him very early on and quickly spotted the issues, so i can pretty much see why his fullbacks are getting cards. It is partly down to his approach, but also down to the players themselves, and a few small changes, and more player development (Fabio, Jones' PPM) will see a fall in cards.

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[quote name='themadsheep2001']To be honest not sure what the fuss is about. I pointed out to the OP where i though he was going wrong, and he seemed to agree. I'm playing as United, I have the same back line as him, and his bookings are 3 times as high as mine. I did have a problem similar to him very early on and quickly spotted the issues, so i can pretty much see why his fullbacks are getting cards. It is partly down to his approach, but also down to the players themselves, and a few small changes, and more player development (Fabio, Jones' PPM) will see a fall in cards.[/QUOTE]

Problem wasn't with you though and people forget this is a game and it's not the same every time for every team and every player, you can play a match with one tactic and win 6-0, get 6 yellows, a red and some injuries and reload that same match with the exact same settings and get something completely different, I've tried it and FM isn't a 100% consistent game, it's football after all, my point is what happens to someone on their game doesn't mean it should happen to EVERYONE using the same team.

I've had the same problem with my players getting inconsistent cards and they ain't for tackles, but stupid stuff like bumping into the player, well according to the commentary anyway.

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[quote name='kingpug']Problem wasn't with you though and people forget this is a game and it's not the same every time for every team and every player, you can play a match with one tactic and win 6-0, get 6 yellows, a red and some injuries and reload that same match with the exact same settings and get something completely different, I've tried it and FM isn't a 100% consistent game, it's football after all, my point is what happens to someone on their game doesn't mean it should happen to EVERYONE using the same team.

I've had the same problem with my players getting inconsistent cards and they ain't for tackles, but stupid stuff like bumping into the player, well according to the commentary anyway.[/QUOTE]

But the point I think you missed in the first place, was that wwfan was pointing out that this was an issue of the OP's making, which i also believe it is. he is playing very fluid, with attacking mentality his full backs will be very high up the pitch, and unless they are spot on can get themselves into difficulties leading to yellows and reds for the reasons i pointed out to him earlier. Of course its not 100%, everyone's game is different. But if he is picking up that many cards on his fullbacks over that kind of period, then he is doing something wrong. Regardless of how many different games, his figure is too high.

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[IMG]http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p532/blaccrichard/Table.png[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p532/blaccrichard/Screenshot2012-03-15at114438PM.png[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p532/blaccrichard/Screenshot2012-03-15at114415PM.png[/IMG]


My defensive record and starting full backs from last season, as my word doesn't seem to be good enough.

For the record, I am not saying anyone is rubbish at the game. Rather that the problems they report are down to something they are doing, not inherent to the game itself. Until people recognise that, you cannot help them.

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