Trequartista - a discussion

[yonko]

Finishing of >12 and Composure of >12 is enough. It also helps if the player has "places shots" as PPM.

[mirto1985]

I don't really have good experience with that PPM from my FM2011 time. Whenever I asked a striker to learn that PPM, his shots dramatically worsened since his every effort was wasted on placing balls in a neat corner instead of actually scoring goals.

[Elliath]

SFraser proposed an interesting idea in this thread http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/257593-Shoots-With-Power-versus-Places-Shots. He tried to teach players Shoots with Power when they were mostly shooting directly at goal, and for players who were shooting from wide areas he used Places Shots.

I tried it with my wide players and they scored a few goals, but I can't say if they wouldn't score them anyway.

[thomit]

I trained Walcott to place his shots, and he clearly benefited, in his role as an attacking inside forward. RVP has "shoots with power", and I think that is good for a trequartista/complete forward type of player. Yeah, I know Messi is probably the ultimate trequartista, and he has "places shots" - but he also has "runs with ball often", which means he over-rules the typical trequartista instructions, and fairly frequently goes on one of his dribbling raids thru the central defence, comes close to the goal, and then places his shot, or runs past the goalie. But for players like RVP, or Torres, I think "shoots with power" is quite good.

[yonko]

I trained Walcott to place his shots, and he clearly benefited, in his role as an attacking inside forward. RVP has "shoots with power", and I think that is good for a trequartista/complete forward type of player. Yeah, I know Messi is probably the ultimate trequartista, and he has "places shots" - but he also has "runs with ball often", which means he over-rules the typical trequartista instructions, and fairly frequently goes on one of his dribbling raids thru the central defence, comes close to the goal, and then places his shot, or runs past the goalie. But for players like RVP, or Torres, I think "shoots with power" is quite good.

Yes, Messi has some PPMs that are conflicting for a Trequartista, but he also has some complimentary PPMs. That is what makes him special though. He can do it all and very often he does the unexpected/untraditional. His high decisions attribute helps him select the best option at the most appropriate time more often than not. As Trequartista in the STC position he plays exactly like IRL.

[DandyDon]

This might sound a little bizarre, but I'm wondering if you think it would be possible to utilise two Trequartistas in a 4-2-3-1 lineup?

In my first season at Arsenal due to Van Persie missing most of the season I had Moussa Sow playing as a Poacher ahead of Gylfi Sigurdsson playing as a trequartista in the AMC position. He was incredibly successful there, scoring 24, making 29 assists and finishing with the highest average rating in the league.

Now in the second season I have a fully fit Van Persie available. I also have Kolbeinn Sigporsson in the squad, who my coaches feel is best played as a trequartista. In the first few games of the season, while Van Persie and Sigurdsson were getting back to full match fitness, Sigporsson did play that role upfront and was very effective but it was ahead of Wilshere playing as an Advanced Playmaker.

Now that Sigurdsson is fully fit again I want to put him back in the lineup in the role that he was so effective in last season, if I do, do you think it would work if I select Van Persie or the other Siggy in a trequartista role as well?

[thomit]

You would then have two players up front that would contribute virtually nothing to defense ... that does not sound right in my head, but try it, and see what happens.

By the way, that strange icelandic letter is more a th, not a p - so it's Sigthorsson, not Sigporsson

[DandyDon]

You would then have two players up front that would contribute virtually nothing to defense ... that does not sound right in my head, but try it, and see what happens.

By the way, that strange icelandic letter is more a th, not a p - so it's Sigthorsson, not Sigporsson

Thanks for the tip on the name...I'll just call him Siggy2 for now

The lack of contribution in defence was pretty much my main concern about playing two players with that role. I've only tried it in two matches so far. We won the first 4-0 with both Siggys scoring 1 each and setting up 1 each, however it was a League Cup match against lower league opposition so can't read too much into that.

We won the next match as well, 2-1 against Bolton but it was a close run thing where we fell behind early on. Gylfi eventually turned in a MoM performance scoring the equaliser and setting up the winner, but Sigthorsson was rather anonymous throughout. I'll try it in a few more matches see how it goes.

[xavierm]

Hello,

Very interesting thread. I'm playing with a middle-table team in France (Nice), and I wanted to set up a system in 4-1-2-2-1 (or 4-5-1), with 1 DM, 1 BWM, 1 DLP, 2 IF and 1 Trequartista. I don't know whether my trequartista is fit for the role, he's a good striker with good creativity, decisions, passing. It seems I can't get him to get the ball and to give the ball to my IF (which should exploit the space the trequartista lets when he drops deep). I've the impression that the trequartista dropping deep will pack the defense and the midfield together, therefore letting no space for the IF (and other players).

Am I doing something wrong ? Would you rather recommand 2 wingers instead of IF ?

[Steve Odom]

Hello,

Very interesting thread. I'm playing with a middle-table team in France (Nice), and I wanted to set up a system in 4-1-2-2-1 (or 4-5-1), with 1 DM, 1 BWM, 1 DLP, 2 IF and 1 Trequartista. I don't know whether my trequartista is fit for the role, he's a good striker with good creativity, decisions, passing. It seems I can't get him to get the ball and to give the ball to my IF (which should exploit the space the trequartista lets when he drops deep). I've the impression that the trequartista dropping deep will pack the defense and the midfield together, therefore letting no space for the IF (and other players).

Am I doing something wrong ? Would you rather recommand 2 wingers instead of IF ?

It should work fine, as long as your trequartista works hard and has good off the ball movement.

[michaelthestrange]

Hello,

Very interesting thread. I'm playing with a middle-table team in France (Nice), and I wanted to set up a system in 4-1-2-2-1 (or 4-5-1), with 1 DM, 1 BWM, 1 DLP, 2 IF and 1 Trequartista. I don't know whether my trequartista is fit for the role, he's a good striker with good creativity, decisions, passing. It seems I can't get him to get the ball and to give the ball to my IF (which should exploit the space the trequartista lets when he drops deep). I've the impression that the trequartista dropping deep will pack the defense and the midfield together, therefore letting no space for the IF (and other players).

Am I doing something wrong ? Would you rather recommand 2 wingers instead of IF ?

I tried something very similar but found it very difficult to play with my IFs as the only goal scoring threat as they weren't playing as narrowly as I would have liked them to. I felt playing three central striker with the middle one being the trequartista was much closer to what I had in mind and what I wanted to see on the pitch.

[llama3]

i have considered it myself, and think it would either be a raving success of an utter disaster - but very unsure how to go about making the rest of the team around work. I also certainly think you need 1 at AMC and 1 at STC for it to work though.

[dufcrule2k9]

if anybody just seen arsenals third goal , perfect example of rvp at trequarstita ?

[EnriqueZove]

From my experience in Fm2012, playing T in place of a TM works better when t comes to scoring goals.

[Fabian Jonsson]

I tried something very similar but found it very difficult to play with my IFs as the only goal scoring threat as they weren't playing as narrowly as I would have liked them to. I felt playing three central striker with the middle one being the trequartista was much closer to what I had in mind and what I wanted to see on the pitch.

I've only just started to play with my current tactics so it remains to be seen exactly how good it works against tough opposition, but the pre-season friendlies have looked very promising. Basically it's similar to what you are looking to create, but with a DLF instead of a T. Yes I know, I know, there are differences, but the basic problem of getting the ball to the T/DLF is the same. My solution is to play a Barca inspired slow conservative build-up. You can set it up in many different ways, but the basic idea is to have the defence + DM + MCs pass the ball around a while and lure the opposition MCs/DMs away from the rest of the defence, and then pass a quick through-ball to the T/DLF who has dropped into the space left in front of the opposition central defence. If the wingers have attack duties, they should now be in position to run past the defence and onto through-balls from the T/DLF.

[Fabian Jonsson]

Hello,

Very interesting thread. I'm playing with a middle-table team in France (Nice), and I wanted to set up a system in 4-1-2-2-1 (or 4-5-1), with 1 DM, 1 BWM, 1 DLP, 2 IF and 1 Trequartista. I don't know whether my trequartista is fit for the role, he's a good striker with good creativity, decisions, passing. It seems I can't get him to get the ball and to give the ball to my IF (which should exploit the space the trequartista lets when he drops deep). I've the impression that the trequartista dropping deep will pack the defense and the midfield together, therefore letting no space for the IF (and other players).

Am I doing something wrong ? Would you rather recommand 2 wingers instead of IF ?

I've only just started to play with my current tactics so it remains to be seen exactly how good it works against tough opposition, but the pre-season friendlies have looked very promising. Basically it's similar to what you are looking to create, but with a DLF instead of a T. Yes I know, I know, there are differences, but the basic problem of getting the ball to the T/DLF is the same. My solution is to play a Barca inspired slow conservative build-up. You can set it up in many different ways, but the basic idea is to have the defence + DM + MCs pass the ball around a while and lure the opposition MCs/DMs away from the rest of the defence, and then pass a quick through-ball to the T/DLF who has dropped into the space left in front of the opposition central defence. If the wingers have attack duties, they should now be in position to run past the defence and onto through-balls from the T/DLF.

I tried something very similar but found it very difficult to play with my IFs as the only goal scoring threat as they weren't playing as narrowly as I would have liked them to. I felt playing three central striker with the middle one being the trequartista was much closer to what I had in mind and what I wanted to see on the pitch.

If you, again, look at when Barca play a 4-3-3, you will notice that the wide players up front actually play rather narrow (look at a graph of average positions in some recent game, you'll be surprised). It's the full-backs that provide the width. I've solved this by playing a rather narrow width, but manually setting wide play of the fullbacks to hug touchline. It works really well so far.

[llama3]

Bumping this thread as this is directly relevant to discussion in Cleon's "Understanding Your Tactic" thread - enjoy

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/334248-Understanding-Your-Tactic-The-Discussion

[Elhan]

If you, again, look at when Barca play a 4-3-3, you will notice that the wide players up front actually play rather narrow (look at a graph of average positions in some recent game, you'll be surprised). It's the full-backs that provide the width. I've solved this by playing a rather narrow width, but manually setting wide play of the fullbacks to hug touchline. It works really well so far.

I'm using a very similar approach and I've set the fullbacks exactly the same. It seems like a good idea so far. As for getting the ball to the trequartista - in my experience the "comes deep to get ball" PPM is a must-have. Avoid players who work the channels or look to break the offside trap.

[llama3]

I'm using a very similar approach and I've set the fullbacks exactly the same. It seems like a good idea so far. As for getting the ball to the trequartista - in my experience the "comes deep to get ball" PPM is a must-have. Avoid players who work the channels or look to break the offside trap.

Great point there about PPM's - they can make or break the functioning of any role - and the Trequartista is in my opinion the ultimate specialised role.

[Cleon]

I'm using a very similar approach and I've set the fullbacks exactly the same. It seems like a good idea so far. As for getting the ball to the trequartista - in my experience the "comes deep to get ball" PPM is a must-have. Avoid players who work the channels or look to break the offside trap.

Comes deep isn't always good. If you use inside forwards who have pace then having this PPM is a restriction because he can't catch back up with play fast enough despite how fast he might be because he comes to low at times.

[Elhan]

Comes deep isn't always good. If you use inside forwards who have pace then having this PPM is a restriction because he can't catch back up with play fast enough despite how fast he might be because he comes to low at times.

It has worked quite well with the players I've tried it, but admittedly I've only tried it with top players who had great anticipation, decisions, off the ball etc. In my FM12 save Berbatov was majestic in this role. The TQ doesn't always have to catch up - if he can slip a through ball into the space he created by dropping deep, dragging defenders out of position, I'm happy. Sure, it doesn't always work, but then again, what does? I agree though that balance is the key, getting your TQ to work with the rest of the team.

[Raymond85]

I've been using Di Natale as a trequartista in a narrow 4-4-2 exploiting the wings, with an advanced forward next to him and i'm absolutely thrilled of the performance. Bangs goals and assists for fun!

[llama3]

My best performance from a Trequartista was on FM11, Fabregas at AMC scored 22 goals and assisted 24!

[yaşar]

My best performance from a Trequartista was on FM11, Fabregas at AMC scored 22 goals and assisted 24!

which tactic did you use ?

[llama3]

a creative 3 playmaker system, 4-2-3-1, with inside forwards and the striker drifting to flanks as an advanced forward - so the trequartista has constantly moving options to choose - this is the key point of a trequartista; movement and options

[yaşar]

a creative 3 playmaker system, 4-2-3-1, with inside forwards and the striker drifting to flanks as an advanced forward - so the trequartista has constantly moving options to choose - this is the key point of a trequartista; movement and options

could give me the whole picture man ? write your detail of your tactic pls ?

[llama3]

and what will you learn from that?

[yaşar]

aml inside forward

amc treq sc adv forward ?????

amr inside forward

[RTHerringbone]

I'm trying to build a second Trequartista based tactic. The first is a 4-1-2-2-1 which shamelessly rips off the essence of Cleon's recent thread.

The alternative is a 4-2-3-1 with the Trequartista in the AMC role, with an attacking IF on one side, and an attacking winger on the other.

At the moment, I have the striker role as an attacking advanced forward, but I am edging towards a DLF on support.

Considering that the Treq is predominately a game stretcher and my IF and Winger present him plenty of passing options, is there a risk that the DLF will operate in the same space as him? I'm wondering if he almost has to sit behind an attacking version of an AF or even a Poacher to maximize his forward threat?

[llama3]

Well the Trequartista constantly looks for space - so if someone comes into his, then he will go looking for it. Given his mentality, he will often drift forward, ahead of the striker that has dropped into his space.

[RTHerringbone]

That's what I hoped, but the first couple of games with the DLF (S) saw him and the Treq knocking around in the same areas, and the team lost a focal point as a consequence.

I want to avoid using a Poacher as I think that role can stretch my team too much if the Treq drops deep. Ultimately I think a Treq is a phenomenal role, but a tricky one to get the balance right with.

[llama3]

The advanced forward can still link play, but will drift into the flanks more too

[RTHerringbone]

Thanks. Just trying a game with a DLF on Attack and it's retaining the shape I'm looking for, but will experiment more with an AF in future games.

The balance in the AMC strata with a Treq, IF and Winger all on attack is excellent, just the striker role that I need to nail.

[RTHerringbone]

Actually, this is working a treat! I signed Ander Herrera from Bilbao and have deployed him as Trequartista and he is great. Just needs to improve his finishing and composure and he'll be right up there. As a creative force, he is astonishing, and was "just" £13.5m.

[yaşar]

try your lone striker in complete forward support .

[themadsheep2001]

Llama, having read this and your other thread on the the Regista ( a favourite of mine), I have a question, here you make Treq the focus as the set playmaker, but in the other thread the Regista was the set playmaker. My question is: If one deploys both, who should be the primary playmaker?

[RTHerringbone]

try your lone striker in complete forward support .

Thanks, but no thanks! Since setting the striker to DLF Attack, I have had three successive games where he has been man of the match, and where the Treq has been getting ratings of 7.9+. It may be a lucky start, but it looks as if I temporarily have these guys hitting it off.

[llama3]

Llama, having read this and your other thread on the the Regista ( a favourite of mine), I have a question, here you make Treq the focus as the set playmaker, but in the other thread the Regista was the set playmaker. My question is: If one deploys both, who should be the primary playmaker?

Depends on formation, style and players. For example in a 4-2-3-1 at AMC the Treq at AMC would be a better choice as he becomes central to all the play. In a counter attacking system a DLP would probably be a better choice as he will spread the ball to counter attack quicker.