Trequartista - a discussion

[llama3]

I have decided to do a discussion on the Trequartista, a role that is hard to achieve success with or use correctly, but when put to good use is devastating. The Trequartista is available in AMC or STC positions only, and with an attack duty only. It is a role which is not designed with any defensive aspects in mind, it is a purely creative fulcrum of your team. It is risky to use more than 1, due to the lack of forward runs and the high creative and supply demands they place on your team. Now for most of FM11 I have used the AMC Trequartista, whereas on FM12 demo I am using a STC Trequartista. Now we need an example of a trequartista to show you, and he is none other than Robin van Persie!

Now van Persie's average rating in the key attributes for a Trequartista is 16.3 - very high in other words, and he possesses some of the PPM's that make a trequartista so dangerous - he comes deep to get the ball, and he cuts inside from wider positions; so aside from tries killer balls often, has the right movement based attributes for the role. Speaking of the role let's take a look at what it actually asks him to do...

Well the role and instructions show that he drifts around wherever the space and opportunities are, and a huge amount of creative freedom, he is as such the most creative player in your team. He makes few off the ball runs forward, but sometimes runs with the ball, and often looks for through-ball opportunities; the key weapon of the Trequartista. In essence he roams around waiting for a good bit of space to turn and play someone in. Now he isn't as simple as that, if he has a good chance he will shoot, and he has the intelligence to move into dangerous offensive positions. However the 2 key elements to your Trequartista are - space & supply.

Space

Now the space aspect means that he must have room to work in, if he is in the AMC slot, with players from MC pushing up, wing back's pushing up, inside forwards cutting inside, and a striker dropping deep - they are all crowding his space. Certainly he must have support, but he needs some of those players to stay out of his area so he can actually find space in an area not particularly congested.

Supply

As for supply, he is the designated playmaker, and needs the ball, often, and in good positions to set up the through-ball opportunities. Do not switch him off as designated playmaker, and make sure he has players in nearby positions who will pass him the ball and make runs to give him opportunities to showcase his creativity. Often in an AMC role, it is useful to ensure you have 2 MC's nearby to win him the ball, and support him, and give him the licence to roam, safe in the knowledge he is not exposing your defence.

Examples

Now we have a superb example of a Trequartista in Robin van Persie, or Lionel Messi, both players who as central striker's drop deep to recieve the ball, before turning in space to face the opposition goal, with options to shoot, play team-mates in on goal, or retain possession and keep probing for space. The AMC is already in that deep territory of space and as such have the same options available to them too. Now for some examples for me to show them working at their deadliest with 2 well-worked goals.

Remember that through-balls work best with pacy and intelligent forwards and team mates, they will be of no use in a team of slow players designed for aerial combat as opposed to lightning quick touch, movement and technique.

[llama3]

Example 1 - Tottenham v Arsenal

Now I had just lost my previous game to Man Utd 7-1 (yes, I may be writing a guide, doesn't make me perfect), but was playing well against Tottenham Hotspur, I was 1-0 up at Half Time from van Persie's excellent work up front dispossessing Gallas in the 6-yard box, and despite conceding a penalty, we still lead 1-0 thanks to Wojciech Szczesny's penalty save from Scott Parker. We have been unfortunate that we had played well but wasted chances and we are very keen to kill the game off, and after a Tottenham corner came to waste, we moved the ball quickly into attack from Szczesny's distribution to Mertesacker. Now in the first image you see van Persie has come deep to collect the ball, and we now have onrushing wide men in the shape of Gervinho (AML) and Walcott (AMR), with Arteta and Ramsey pushing through midfield.

Now van Persie's movement deep causes Tottenham problems, as he is not so deep that their midfield need to pick him up, but deep enough that it draws their defence out of position, as you see by William Gallas being drawn to mark van Persie. This yard of space means that van Persie can put in a through ball on the turn behind the spurs defence.

Now Gervinho's pace means that a through ball has been well-weighted for him to run onto, and sprint clear of Younes Kaboul, with no covering defender (Gallas) to challenge him. Van Persie has taken 2 player's out of contention with 1 movement deep and 1 through-ball, all in seconds, leaving Gervinho the finish to make it 2-0 and secure my win in the Boxing Day North London Derby.

[llama3]

Example 2 - Arsenal 7-1 Fulham

I averaged my goal difference back in this game, and despite scoring 7, van Persie was nowhere to be seen on the scoresheet - which is a risk playing a Trequartista as a lone forward. But van Persie's ability to move into space got him amongst the goals, with a little help from his team mates. Now this goal is a classic exploitation of space against a 4-4-2, a move of many more passes, but still worked for similar reasons. Gibbs is currently on the ball, passing the Mikel Arteta. Van Persie has 3 Fulham players highlighted in close proximity, it takes something special to score like that, and tactics do not account for the moments of genius, only the other 99% of a game. So currently he is precisely no danger.

However now we have an interesting situation, with Aaron Ramsey recieving a pass from Gervinho on the left flank, who has now turned and moved forward. We see the left flank of Arsenal's is a 3v3 situation, so naturally Steve Sidwell cannot leave Ramsey free to come forward and dictate a through-ball, and is forced to leave his deep space in front of van Persie to close down Ramsey. Ramsey is able to pass towards van Persie who pulls off into space unmarked. With the Fulham defence unsure to close him down (and open up gaps in their lines) or stay compact (and leave van Persie free to roam.)

Now van Persie is facing goal, with Walcott making a run in behind Aaron Hughes, and Ramsey moving forward to his left into the space now behind left by Brede Hangeland who has decided to close down the Dutchman.

Now van Persie releases a well-timed short through-ball in behind the Fulham defence, with the wide-man Walcott getting into the dangerous gap between Full-Back and Centre-Back, using his pace to bring himself 1-on-1 with Schwarzer to score Arsenal's 6th goal.

The Trequartista relies on good off the ball movement from team mates, and this helps create his own space too. Please add your thoughts, discussions, experiences and tips for using a Trequartista.

[samdiatmh]

i saw this thread and immediately thought VanPersie

he's AMAZING at that role

i play with a lone striker, and he's scored 9 in 6

my team:

Szczesny, Sagna, Koscielny, Vermaelen, Gibbs/Santos, Jermaine Jones, Song, Ramsey/Arteta/F Anderson, Walcott/Yossi, Gervinho/Arshavin, RVP/Park

[yonko]

Funny, I saw the thread title and immediately thought of two other players before RVP - Messi and Totti.

[llama3]

Funny, I saw the thread title and immediately thought of two other players before RVP - Messi and Totti.

they are the 2 best examples, just that van persie is the 1 most familiar to me

[tommonufc]

Currently playing in a Brazilian save. In the game mentioned here Kaka was playing as a Attacking Midfielder behind a front two in the first half, and was marked out of the game by the Portugese DM, and came in at half time with a rating of around 5.7 or something ridiculous. At half time I put him into the front three as a Trequartista and lowered his mentality even more from what the TC sets. By doing this he eluded the DM that had marked him out of the first half, and asked questions of the two center backs that would already busy containing my front two strikers.

The move starts with my center back Breno playing a short pass to my attack minded right wing-back who has a high creative freedom - Maicon. As this seemingly inconspicuous pass is played, Kaka starts his move. He starts on the shoulder of the defender to his left and drops deep in-between the Portugal's compact defensive and midfield lines - represented in red. There isn't an abundance of space available, represented by the yellow circle of space. But due to Kaka's exceptional ability throughout his technical, mental and physical attributes this limited space can be just enough..

As Kaka is played the ball and controls it, he draws the attention of numerous Portugese defenders, with both of their full backs marking my front two strikers leaves two central defenders to deal with the threat of Kaka - not to mention my left wing back who is unmarked on the far side. In an ideal scenario the defender to his left (RCB) would have tracked his movement deep with his center back partner holding the defensive position. Alas, this isn't the case, and no the Portguese defenders aren't quick enough in closing down Kaka.

Kaka now has made use of his exceptional first touch to control the ball, and now with three defenders within closer proximity; and manages to get his shot away to great effect!

Hope this is of some value to this topic, as I feel an excellent example of typical movement that you would expect to see from a clever, technically gifted player playing the Trequartista role.

[llama3]

very good addition to the thread tommonufc, superb example, good analysis too!

[tommonufc]

very good addition to the thread tommonufc, superb example, good analysis too!

Thank you, always used to view the Trequartista role with intrigue; not really knowing how to use it with which player to affect. That changed only recently when I had great success using Lionel Messi as a Trequartista up front on his own, almost making a 4-6-0 when he linked up with the midfield and inside forwards.

Now using the wealth of attacking Brazilian flair and creativity I'm exploring all more in how the role can be used with two other forward players, without those said players taking up the Trequartista's space.

[EnriqueZove]

Currently playing in a Brazilian save. In the game mentioned here Kaka was playing as a Attacking Midfielder behind a front two in the first half, and was marked out of the game by the Portugese DM, and came in at half time with a rating of around 5.7 or something ridiculous. At half time I put him into the front three as a Trequartista and lowered his mentality even more from what the TC sets. By doing this he eluded the DM that had marked him out of the first half, and asked questions of the two center backs that would already busy containing my front two strikers.

The move starts with my center back Breno playing a short pass to my attack minded right wing-back who has a high creative freedom - Maicon. As this seemingly inconspicuous pass is played, Kaka starts his move. He starts on the shoulder of the defender to his left and drops deep in-between the Portugal's compact defensive and midfield lines - represented in red. There isn't an abundance of space available, represented by the yellow circle of space. But due to Kaka's exceptional ability throughout his technical, mental and physical attributes this limited space can be just enough..

As Kaka is played the ball and controls it, he draws the attention of numerous Portugese defenders, with both of their full backs marking my front two strikers leaves two central defenders to deal with the threat of Kaka - not to mention my left wing back who is unmarked on the far side. In an ideal scenario the defender to his left (RCB) would have tracked his movement deep with his center back partner holding the defensive position. Alas, this isn't the case, and no the Portguese defenders aren't quick enough in closing down Kaka.

Kaka now has made use of his exceptional first touch to control the ball, and now with three defenders within closer proximity; and manages to get his shot away to great effect!

Hope this is of some value to this topic, as I feel an excellent example of typical movement that you would expect to see from a clever, technically gifted player playing the Trequartista role.

Loved the Goal and Post too.

[agentvinz]

Great guide mate as I've been wondering how to use the treq role. I've few questions though :

1.If you play 4-2-3-1 with the treq at the ST then will the AMC become useless because he can take the treq's space, and also the ST trequartista will act almost like an AMC and become the main creative force of the team, so does it better to pull back the AMC to MC and play a 4-3-3?

2.How do you set the inside forward then, what's their wide play, are they have run from deep 'often'? Also are they allowed to roam, and try through ball?

3.How do you react if the AI play with a DM or even two to mark your AMC treq out of the game? If so, is it better to push him to ST position?

Do you think it's better to increase his fwd run to 'sometimes', because whenever I set him to 'rarely' he will drop to deep to the midfield, which make him much less dangerous and has no key pass at all.

[michaelthestrange]

This thread reminds me of a tactic I used a couple of months ago. It was a 4-3-3/4-5-1 with the lone striker being a trequartista, which relied on the two wingers and central midfielders to get into goalscoring positions. As soon as the trequartista received the ball, the wingers tried to break the offside trap and at least one midfielder tried to overlap the striker.

This is how a typical situation looked like:

Petric (TQ) received the ball from Aogo (left central midfielder) and could play through balls to either one of the wingers (orange) or the overlapping right central midfielder (yellow). Also the fullbacks (blue) are hugging the touchline and are completely unmarked and offering further passing options. He could also lay it back to the DMC who is not in the picture. Hower, as the Trequartista could be attacked by five opposing players, he has to decide quickly what move he wants to execute. So I guess Decisions and Composure are further key attributes while the TQ is a very demanding role in general. Petric went for the long shot by the way, due to his PPM.

[sirfletch2006]

I used Neymar in last years game as a striker trequartista, using similar tactics but with Ramsey in the DM position to give Neymar more room to operate.

I've had players who were more prolific in terms of goals and assists but his performance ratings were through the roof, he averaged about 8.80 in 10 seasons.

[llama3]

Great guide mate as I've been wondering how to use the treq role. I've few questions though :

1.If you play 4-2-3-1 with the treq at the ST then will the AMC become useless because he can take the treq's space, and also the ST trequartista will act almost like an AMC and become the main creative force of the team, so does it better to pull back the AMC to MC and play a 4-3-3?

2.How do you set the inside forward then, what's their wide play, are they have run from deep 'often'? Also are they allowed to roam, and try through ball?

3.How do you react if the AI play with a DM or even two to mark your AMC treq out of the game? If so, is it better to push him to ST position?

Do you think it's better to increase his fwd run to 'sometimes', because whenever I set him to 'rarely' he will drop to deep to the midfield, which make him much less dangerous and has no key pass at all.

ok in order:

1 - i use a 4-2-3-1 with the treq up top. i find the key is a man who will not get into the treq's space, or will move into the space the treq vacates - so i use an advanced playmaker attack, as the amc is still a superb place for pinging in through-balls still, and the adv playmaker will make some forward runs.

2 - i leave all tactics as the TC defines them - i never alter anything within a role or duty

3 - i had that problem a lot on fm11 with fabregas as my trequartista at AMC, and i tended to play wider, keep the amr as a winger instead of inside forward to give the treq space to move in to

finally - no i never alter it, his mentality and creativity will see him want to get forward on his own anyway, the beauty of the treq is that he drops into that little gap between the lines to exploit space and is so hard to mark because of it. if you push his forward runs up he becomes like an advanced playmaker instead

[Britrock]

Ganso is incredible as a trequartista. His average ratings for the position are through the roof. On my fm11 save with Newcastle he came third in the world footballer of the year award. And I hadn't won anything the season!

[Suggy33]

Best role for a treq for me, is in a 4-4-2 (or what the game calls a 4-2-4) alongside a very quick poacher. So long as the treq has good creativity and passing, the poacher will score a lot of goals.

[dily]

brilliant post, the trickof playing with TQ is finding the right player as not everyone can play that role. With Arsenal I play AMC and a poacher two roles most players can play, but if I go TQ i will have to bring in a striker who can play that role, as I do not like changing formation- been a one formation man. is there a back up to RVP is that role I can get for relatively cheap??

[lucatonix]

brilliant post, the trickof playing with TQ is finding the right player as not everyone can play that role. With Arsenal I play AMC and a poacher two roles most players can play, but if I go TQ i will have to bring in a striker who can play that role, as I do not like changing formation- been a one formation man. is there a back up to RVP is that role I can get for relatively cheap??

Arshavin can play the Trequartista role well, and so can a developed Wilshere. I used both of them as a Trequartista in one of my early Arsenal saves on FM11 and they were the stars of the team (Wilshere replaced Arshavin after 2/3 seasons).

[llama3]

brilliant post, the trickof playing with TQ is finding the right player as not everyone can play that role. With Arsenal I play AMC and a poacher two roles most players can play, but if I go TQ i will have to bring in a striker who can play that role, as I do not like changing formation- been a one formation man. is there a back up to RVP is that role I can get for relatively cheap??

yes park chu-young is actually very good at the role

[emanuelro]

very nice explication, i will try this. I don't used trequartista until now. But i will use.

[llama3]

glad this has been helpful to people, be sure to have a look for my setting up a defence guide down the page

in the meantime i am planning my next thread, any requests welcome, i have a number i am planning to do

[Mark.]

For me personally I wouldn't mind a thread explaining how you would go about setting up the Arsenal side this season. But that's just me

[jtt]

Hi

Got a few of questions about the trequartista:

1. Would it be detrimental to increase the closing down to win the ball back high up the pitch?

2. Which situations would be best to use the trequartista, the deep lying forward and complete forward (support)

3. How do you set up the wingers and the midfielders to exploit the space left by the trequartista? I've got Gervinho and Walcott as inside forwards attack and ramsey as central midfielder attack with arteta as deep lying playmaker support in a 4-3-3 and i can't get them to do this

4. What alterations should you make if the other team plays an anchorman so there's less space? Or should I just use another formation in this case?

Thanks a lot for your help!

[llama3]

1 - well the trequartista is designed to constantly look for space, including without the ball, but if the player has a naturally high work rate, aggression etc these can help offset the naturally low setting. in other words, it affects them looking for space when the team doesn't have the ball

2 - a trequartista is the fulcrum of your creativity and attack, he is technically outstanding, and has superb vision, he is an exceptional creative talent, if your forward provides assists but through skill perhaps not sheer vision then perhaps a DLF or CF is more appropriate. the trequartista will not spearhead a line and attempt to be the first man in the box to finish chances, and will not particularly attack crosses, so consider your forward's strength and how your team is set up and geared to scoring.

3 - i play the following with arsenal to exploit the space: MRC (Song) Ball-Winning Midfielder - Defend, MLC (Arteta) Deep-Lying Playmaker - Support, AMR (Walcott) Winger - Attack, AMC (Ramsey) Advanced Playmaker - Attack, AML (Gervinho) Inside Forward - Attack, STC (van Persie) Trequartista - Attack - the reason is, that the MC's will not push into his space, the AMC will make forward runs overlapping the Trequartista when he drops into space, the wide right will stay wide to allow the trequartista space to move into, necessary considering wide left comes inside. if i had both wide men coming inside, as well as the treq dropping deep, plus an amc it means 4 players playing in a very central area - this would be very poor if any of the MC's were pushing into the treq's space too.

4 - i switch to 4-5-1 (DM & AM Wingers) if i feel there is an anchorman or someone man-marking an AMC out of the game to widen the midfield, and drop the midfield line slightly further back, creating space and making it harder for a DM to man-mark a player

[EnriqueZove]

My next target.

[jtt]

Thanks a lot for your help llama, that cleared it up a lot!

So you're saying someone like RVP or Bergkamp (if he were still playing) would be suited to a trequartista role, whereas Rooney and Tevez would perform the best as a DLF or CF?

Also, if i changed Gervinho's and Walcott's instructions to "move into channels" would that make them exploit the space created by RVP or do you think it wouldn't make a differrence?

Sorry for all the questions, but as an afc fan I'm determined to make this work lol!

[llama3]

tevez could do treq role, but rooney definitely more of a forward. van persie and bergkamp superb trequartistas. don't alter gervinho and walcott's instructions, they will move into space naturally, and the cutting inside instruction of an inside forward works wonders too. but in the above example against fulham walcott is playing as a winger AMR attack - and see how he still makes the run into space inside

[vieires]

I think Rooney's mental stats and his appreciation of space make him a potentially deadly trequartista...

[llama3]

I think Rooney's mental stats and his appreciation of space make him a potentially deadly trequartista...

they are good, however i think he is shaped too much like a man who leads the line to waste his talent dropping deep and sticking in that kind of a hole. don't get me wrong he'd do a good job there, i think though that there are players far better suited to the role

[THX1138]

I've got Joe Gormley playing the same role for me

[jase19]

i have suarez playing the treq role up front in a 3-5-1 for liverpool. it's working quite well now, at first it wasn't, but after the squad learned the tactic and built up some morale from winning a few matches, it's been great.

[nick1408]

I'm currently switching between Solozano and Kewell in the striker treq role with Archie Thompson beside him as an advanced forward. Solozano doesn't score too much but draws defenders so Archie can score.

[darkhell26]

I'm using QPR and using Adel Taarabt in the same position. He's been banging in the goals so far...

[James9]

they are good, however i think he is shaped too much like a man who leads the line to waste his talent dropping deep and sticking in that kind of a hole. don't get me wrong he'd do a good job there, i think though that there are players far better suited to the role

Llama I am playing 451/433 with an anchor man and two central midfielders. I want to play van Persie has a trequartista. I would like to know how you would play Walcott and Gervinho in the 433/451 formation to ensure that they make runs into space. Would you recommend winger or inside forward. Also I would like one of central midfielders to make runs into the box and score goals. I have Arteta playing as a deep lying playmaker. What role would you give to Ramsey or Wilshere

[däkkä]

Inside forward / attack is the best imo but if you want midfield runs it can become congested so I'd probably have a winger with normal wide play and often RFD on the side of the midfield runner (CMa or B2B). On the side that has the deep-lying midfielder, you can play the inside forward.

[yonko]

I'm glad this topic is bumped up.

I'm using a 4-2-3-1 with Barca using a Trequartista up front. Yes, it is Messi majority of the time. I think his PPMs make him play that role superbly and differently. Obviously he has the attributes as well. But one of his particular attributes, which strangely is not required for the role of Trequrtista, is very helpful considering the sheer amount of different PPMs he possess. That attribute is decision, which for Messi is 17. Here are some of his PPMs (off top of my head):

Comes deep

Moves in opponents area

Runs with ball often

Plays Through Balls

Cuts Inside

Plays one-twos

I'm not sure if he has also Moves into Channels as PPM, but the default wide play for the role is set as Moves into Channels. So the combination of his attributes, PPMs and role instructions allows him to do pretty much everything and different things in each game/moments.

I've played Villa and Neymar in that role as well, when I decide to give Messi a rest. Each of them play in that role differently form each other and compared to Messi. I suspect that is mostly due to their different PPMs. I think Villa's PPMs are suitable for someone in the Poacher role, while Neymar has only Moves into Channels as PPM, which is a wide play suitable for most Forward roles. Strangely, the recommendation by my excellent Assistant for both Villa and Neymar is to be used as Trequartista. And their attributes also are shown more suitable for that role.

The Trequartista is usually described as someone who doesn't get on the end of crosses and doesn't lead the attack, but is rather the creative hub. However, I've seen Messi get on the end of plenty of low crosses and finish them superbly. In fact, I seen plenty of attacks where Messi drops deep, creates a team move and then gets on the end of it and finishes it - just like IRL.

In my formation my AM is set as Attacking Midfielder on Attack Duty. My wide men are set as Inside Forwards on Attack but their Wide Plays is set manually to Normal, which combined with Roaming, allows them mixed play - they can stay wide, they can cut inside, they can drop deep or run upfield.

I don't wanna boast stats and wins, because after all I'm using Barca and with them every tactic works, but some of the play I see on the 3D highlights is very realistic and spectacular to watch.

Has anyone else tried Trequartista + Attacking Midfield combo. Isn't that what Barca uses IRL with Messi and Fabregas at the moment?

[llama3]

Llama I am playing 451/433 with an anchor man and two central midfielders. I want to play van Persie has a trequartista. I would like to know how you would play Walcott and Gervinho in the 433/451 formation to ensure that they make runs into space. Would you recommend winger or inside forward. Also I would like one of central midfielders to make runs into the box and score goals. I have Arteta playing as a deep lying playmaker. What role would you give to Ramsey or Wilshere

Play AMR&L as Inside Forwards (attack) so they cut into space between the full backs (i recommend setting your team instructions to drill crosses too) and your final central midfielder can be either advanced playmaker (attack) or central midfielder (attack) - either suits tbh

[llama3]

In my formation my AM is set as Attacking Midfielder on Attack Duty. My wide men are set as Inside Forwards on Attack but their Wide Plays is set manually to Normal, which combined with Roaming, allows them mixed play - they can stay wide, they can cut inside, they can drop deep or run upfield.

I don't wanna boast stats and wins, because after all I'm using Barca and with them every tactic works, but some of the play I see on the 3D highlights is very realistic and spectacular to watch.

Has anyone else tried Trequartista + Attacking Midfield combo. Isn't that what Barca uses IRL with Messi and Fabregas at the moment?

I use attacking midfielder (support) in AMC behind my trequartista at the moment - its Ramsey currently in the role after 15(3) appearances and 4 goals and 7 assists - decent performance, and the assists and goals are spread well. As for the Trequartista himself van Persie, he has 7 goals and 11 assists in 12(1) appearances at an average rating of 7.77

[Steve Odom]

The same goes for the very lowest level too. I have Andrew av Flotum (Faroese premier league) as a Trequartista (SC in a 4231 with wingers). He can even create goals by not touching the ball at all. Just the space he creates is mostly enough. It is one of the most interesting roles in game, in my opinion.

[yonko]

I use attacking midfielder (support) in AMC behind my trequartista at the moment - its Ramsey currently in the role after 15(3) appearances and 4 goals and 7 assists - decent performance, and the assists and goals are spread well. As for the Trequartista himself van Persie, he has 7 goals and 11 assists in 12(1) appearances at an average rating of 7.77

Does Ramsey get beyond Van Persie often enough in your attack with just support duty? Try him on Attack duty and see what happens. He might score more goals and RVP my collect more assists.

In my Barca game (2nd season) Messi has 52 goals and 27 assists with AVR of 8.27 from 35 games or so. I'm just in early February. Messi is also the player who makes the most key passes by far on my team. BTW, I'm using Hassle Opponents as a shout which bumps his Closing Down to max with the rest of the team. I don't know if that is good thing or if you use the same.

In the AMC position I've been using 3 players - Iniesta, Thiago and Fabregas. Early in the season, Thiago was outperforming them all and was my second best player after Messi. But he got injured and has been fighting back to full fitness ever since. Iniesta plays better as Advanced Playmaker on Attack, but Fabregas is really dangerous as Attacking Midfielder on Attack.

How are your Inside Forwards doing? I know you have them on default. For me, Pedro and Sanchez are killing it as AMR (their natural position). But both of them struggle if they play AML. In fact, whomever I play as AML (I also use Neymar and Deulofeu there) doesn't play as well as my AMR. Remember, I use Normal wide play for my Inside Forwards. Perhaps I need to change my AML wide play to the default Cut Inside.

[Matej]

When i play with traq, i move his closing down bar to whole p. Maybe he is not real traq anymore, but no way ill play with player who doesnt play defence. In modern football serious team must play defence 2. Every single player must play def. Btw, my traq, jovetic is playin between mid and striker, he is playin really good 2.

[llama3]

Yes Ramsey does get beyond van Persie quite a bit, and chips in a few goals. Inside Forwards are excellent, Gervinho is now my top scorer.

[yonko]

llama3, questions for you.

Have you tried Trequartista with Normal wide play instead of the default Moves into Channels? Have you noticed any difference in his play? If your Treq struggles to perform in certain game (say, the opponents squeeze the space for him by playing very defensive), do you change anything in his settings or in the team settings? Is the Treq set as your Playmaker in Team settings?

[llama3]

i never ever tweak the default settings - so no tried nothing different. the treq is the default playmaker. i try and work space in the same way i would for any match situation, i don't make special considerations for a trequartista. use width, change defensive line, try through balls are common ones

[LlamaZA]

Hi other llama,

I would like your thoughts on the following (and perhaps something to add to the original posts):

How is your reading of the Trequartista different from a deep lying forward on support (since both would appear to be creative forwards who drop deep and play the ball on). I like to see things in comparison to others as opposed to on its own as then you can get a feel for the unique defining characteristics of the role.

Secondly, how do you see the AMC and SC Trequartista's differing? What would each do that the other doesn't?

As mentioned in another post, Cleon and I have both found that a deep lying forward with an AMC Trequartista works really well, while I've struggled to get the right sort of AMC to play behind him (someone who would bomb forward ahead of the FC in order to get on the end through balls.

[llama3]

firstly on theawaystand.co.uk there is a sort guide on the trequartista at AMC by the user BWP http://www.theawaystand.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/6520-trequartista-a-forgotten-position/ which is worth a read. I felt the Trequartista at AMC linked more of the play than at STC where he is more likely to provide the final pass or assist. As the Trequartista at STC is already playing up top you are more likely to see lateral movement or dropping deep, whereas at AMC there is space to exploit in front so I see that he can move forward as well as sideways and deep. But I don't see any major differences, after all they are still the same role, doing the same thing.

The Trequartista carries no defensive responsibility whatsoever, whereas the Deep-Lying Forward is required to drop deep, attempt to win the ball within the realms of the tactical system, and is far more likely to take long shots etc. Furthermore if you examine the difference in mentality too the DLF (especially on a support role) is much lower than the Trequartista who is not required to think about defending or supporting the team much, he has licence to think purely how the game will unfold in an attacking sense. The DLF is also told not to roam from position, so should drop deep, but not move out wide like the Trequartista can.

I used to use a DLF(s) with an AMC Trrequartista in my FM11 tactic with Fabregas the Trequartista, but on FM12 it is now van Persie the Trequartista with the loss of Fabregas. I play Ramsey as an AMC(s) behind van Persie and he chips in goals, passes and assists. He also crucially does a lot defensively, and can close down the backline when van Persie drops off looking for space. Basically Ramsey is the hard worker behind the gifted Trequartista. I am very surprised at how well it has worked.

[Shake Appeal]

Trequartistas at AMC make more intuitive sense to me to set up, but then I mostly watch Italian football and play with Italian teams on FM.

[llama3]

I agree, they do, but due to the slightly unusual way my team moves and plays it works well in my system. But I agree it is generally better suited to AMC

[mirto1985]

Would such a tactic require wingers with good finishing stats? I assume they'll have the bulk of the chances since the striker will be supplier mostly.

[llama3]

well they do have a lot of chances so it certainly helps