knapp... Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 haha what a pile of **** we are. such a nothing performance from everyone. kenny will get till the end of the season and if we finish below 5th or performances haven't picked up and he carries on serving up crap like yesterday he'll step aside in may. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emersonlfc Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 rafa was cautious. worked well for us in many a game. but if people think we are going to see a gun blazing team if he comes back they are sure to be disappointed. rafa had one singular spell of playing football where attack was the game. that was after he lost something like a 7 point lead in November and was forced to attack from around Feb to chase the league. The season we came 2nd. I don't think we would see a gun blazing team by any means but I do believe we would see a team which will always try to play to a certain tempo and always have a plan of attack. At the minute we just seem clueless when we are attacking. The one thing Rafa always banged on about was tempo and its only really now that I have noticed its what we lack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 you weren't the only who didn't want rafa to go. so are you sure that the people wanting him back wanted him gone?at the time, i thought rafa had to go given it was clear he and the owners were not working well. that said, i'll always like rafa. but it would be amiss of me not to say that he often frustrated me. much like kenny. and for me this is what i think people forget while ironically calling any defence of kenny based on nostalgia. Rafalution sticks out, but there were others. I'd prefer to see Rafa back, I genuinely feel he was finally beginning to build the team he wanted before his final transfer windows and final season were horribly hamstrung by H&G. But that's always been my viewpoint, unlike others I'm not flipping on it based on 365 days or so. People really need to learn patience. Also finding this "100M" a bit baffling. Wage saving plus Torres transfer alone covers that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanNUFC Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 haha@ people thinking rafa would make any difference whatsoever. there's a reason he got sacked.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jongi Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 surely its more of a under performing issue rather than a generally being **** issue.Adam has looked horrendous of late which is most likely due to being asked to play a role in the team which he is incapable of doing. Which is due to the fact we have lost Lucas and Spearing. Playing with Gerrard in the middle means he is the one who has to do most of the defensive play. i would put it to you that he has not looked good at all before lucas was injured. Same applies to Carroll in the fact he is playing a role which he is incapable of doing. He isn't one who can run into channels or run inbehind and that's more our fault for buying him when we know that's not his strength. When we actually play to his strengths, he has looked dangerous enough. There's no point bombing ball after ball up to him expecting him to hold of 2 center backs in the hope we have a supporting player near him as 90% of the time, we don't. Actually felt sorry for him the other week because of the abuse he got when he didn't do much wrong tbh. i agree that we should have never bought carroll because he was never the way we played. and as i stated above, kenny/commolli are to blame (and fsg i think). Downing looks out of ideas. I remember his 1st game when he hit the bar and was really excited as he ran at defenders instead of always turning back. Is it Kenny telling him to not put a ball in the box and to look for a pass? Who knows but he isn't the Downing we seen at Villa last year. Him and Jose haven't clicked at all which isn't helping either of them. Even Jose has looked disinterested the last 2 games. most villa fans say he did his best work on the right in the season before we bought him. and given that was his stand out season (as americans might say), why buy him to play him on the left. does suarez become a commolli signing given that it is likely that kenny would have had little time to say yay or nay given that the deal seemed to be well ahead by the time he signed? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanNUFC Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Funny thing is out of desperation i can actually see Liverpool bringing back Rafa. And the same old crap will happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emersonlfc Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Adam has never looked brilliant but there was a period were he at least offered something. At the minute he is making mistakes all over the pitch and doesn't look conformable at all. This isn't me defending him by any means as I would love to have someone better in there. A proper dm for one. Adam is ideally a back up to Gerrard when required and even then, I would rather we used Jonjo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jongi Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Rafalution sticks out, but there were others. I'd prefer to see Rafa back, I genuinely feel he was finally beginning to build the team he wanted before his final transfer windows and final season were horribly hamstrung by H&G. But that's always been my viewpoint, unlike others I'm not flipping on it based on 365 days or so. People really need to learn patience.Also finding this "100M" a bit baffling. Wage saving plus Torres transfer alone covers that. i understood why rafa had to go. or at least under the info we got then. there was no working relationship with him and purslow. and at the time none of us could be sure what the end outcome would be. if i had understood better that the outcome was out of G&Hs hands, I would have supported rafa more. but it doesn't take away from the fact that the was a sizeable portion of fans who wanted him gone based on the performances when we finished 2nd. So even if I am a sympathiser, the fact remains that even if we were to sack kenny, liverpool fans would not unite with rafa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Is being united in support of a manager that important though? People can dislike someone's tactics, but if they bring results... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falahk Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Carroll was a panic buy. remember saying that roughly one day after you guys bought him Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafParrot Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Been a hell of a **** out today. Most of it deserved tbf. I must say, this is exactly the position I expected us to be in when the season began. Expectation was a little overboard at the beginning of this season from most people, but the sheer fact is we haven't bought nearly well enough in some positions. Whilst Suarez and Enrique are successes and I have no doubt Coates will be too, not to mention Henderson slowly improving, Carroll and Downing have been massive failures in the positions we were most desperate to address, and Adam is just a failure full stop. There's simply no point in wasting time with Carroll any longer. We've paid 5 times his true value when signing him and he's hanging round like a bad smell. He was absolutely awful again today, the game just passed him by. There are reasons to blame the service to him of course, but for a striker to be a success at the levels we aspire to, they have to have something more to their game than relying on everyone else to have a halfway adequate performance. Even Grant Holt has more about him than Carroll does. Ship him out for whatever we can get and bring in another striker in this window. Please. Downing is average personified. I believed it before we signed him, I stated so when we signed him, I still believe it now. He looks worse as a result of the team around him and the dire quality of strikers we have. If we had more talent on the pitch he would look better, but he's little more than someone who can occupy a full back on one side and chip in with the occasional goal or assist. He's not the answer to our prayers in terms of a top quality wide man. Basically, he's just another Albert Riera. We overpaid for him again (whats new?) but I'm not willing to consign him to the scrapheap just yet. I'd just like to see him with a slightly less important role, he shouldn't be a focal point of our attack. Another good winger on the other flank would free him up imo. Adam was a baffling signing at the time for me as he was never good enough. He's proved it. Maybe he wasn't meant to play as often as he has this season, but injuries and shipping out Meireles and Aquilani have forced us to rely on him more than we ever should have needed too. Adam is a player, like Carroll, whom if Rafa was manager would probably never have been signed, but if they were they'd be halfway out the exit door already. Unlike Kenny, Rafa knew when something wasn't working and had the bollocks to make the tough call and move a player on quickly, before identifying a new target and bringing them in. He didn't always get the call right, but at least he was proactive. Kenny has always seemed much more reactive. You can see that in his substitutions and also in a lot of his team selections. Futhermore, in his first stint with the club he allowed the squad we had to head over the hill. Some of them stayed far too long than they should have. Now he seems to be dallying far too long with a squad that is obvious to see isn't up to it. From what he's said in press conferences I've seen this window he's seemed to think we have what it takes to achieve top 4 this season. I find that notion pretty ridiculous. If we fail to act over the next week or so theres no chance of us even mounting a challenge, and this season will end up as another dud. We can't afford for that to happen. Its possibly a little harsh on Kenny. He hasn't been a total bust or anything, he was exactly the right man to come in last season and you could easily counter argue with his success stories since he returned. Given a lot of time I reckon he can continue to help us improve and grow, but time is not a commodity that we have in todays premiership and there are other managers out there who could do the same and more at a quicker speed though imo. Rafa is one of them. I was very disappointed in his sacking in the first place as we'd basically had 5 years of steady advance followed by a one season blip with many mitigating circumstances. At this moment in time I'd be a lot more confident with him at the helm. He isn't the be all and end all though, he's clearly not perfect and there are other candidates out there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafParrot Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Didn't realise I'd typed quite so much... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I could forgive so much of Adam's general play if his set pieces were worth it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emersonlfc Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Good post DP. Would agree with the majority of that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 At this moment in time I'd be a lot more confident with him at the helm. He isn't the be all and end all though, he's clearly not perfect and there are other candidates out there. I don't see them tbh. So many others out there have too many flaws or wouldn't be interested in coming here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafParrot Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 We could get so many managers here. Premiership team, rich history, need that little bit extra to be challengers and have the money to spend to achieve it. Its an attractive proposition for anyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 But they also don't have control over transfer policy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafParrot Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 They have a lot more control than some other teams do. Just because they're working with somebody doesn't mean they have no say. Find it hard to believe Commoli would have signed Carroll without Dalglish's say so. In fact I think our setup is very very good behind the scenes atm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Doubt it, all that talk about the moneyball approach woulnd't be ignored just to get someone else in. I'd say we're no more an attractive proposition than we were a year ago. Most likely to wind up with another Houllier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Cheyrou, Le Tallec, Biscan, Pongolle... would probably all walk in to our first team right now. Hell, Neil Mellor would. Speaking of which, where's this great youth setup we've invested in? Could use a random youth striker about now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Granted I only watched on MoTD but Gerrard didn't seem to do a whole lot yesterday either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falahk Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Granted I only watched on MoTD but Gerrard didn't seem to do a whole lot yesterday either. somehow Dalglish seams to think its a good plan to play him out of position as some sort of deep playmaker Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Cheyrou, Le Tallec, Biscan, Pongolle... would probably all walk in to our first team right now.Hell, Neil Mellor would. Speaking of which, where's this great youth setup we've invested in? Could use a random youth striker about now. Yea, after two years we should definitely have first team players now. :/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Awful that yesterday. Reminded me very much of Blackburn last season for the owls final game. A lot of arguing between fans who are split on opinions of managers and tactics etc. I want Rafa back, I never wanted him to leave and I hate any red that called for that at the time. I would give Kenny until the end of the season, if things haven't picked up I want him to walk away himself, his tactics a lot of the time are outdated. Yesterday a prime example you can't play without a holding midfielder these days especially when Gerrard isn't the best defensive centre mid and Adam is just useless. I said after the Newcastle game that I hoped that the result didn't paper over the cracks because we were awful that day. I think it did for a while,then the lucky 1-0 win at City will buy even more time where we were again awful. I'm not even remotely confident for the second leg now. If we play the same formation as yesterday Silva will have a field day. Those saying that 2 years is enough to bring through quality youth are you serious? That will take years. I do agree however, the way we are attacking at the minute it would do no harm to throw a couple of young lads on and tell them to have a go and at least try something. Sterling or Silva might actually get to the byline and cut a nice cross back or two more than anyone else in our team is doing at the minute. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
foofighter23 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Funny thing is out of desperation i can actually see Liverpool bringing back Rafa. And the same old crap will happen. if the same old crap is regular CL semi's and finals then i'll take that. i was one of the people who didint want rafa to go and i still have arguments about it with a friend who didnt care who came in to replace him just as long as he went and i still cant believe the people who dont recognise what a superb job rafa did under the restrictions of h&g and slag him off all the time just because he wasnt perfect, who is? i think those people are numptys if im honest. anyway like ive said i dont think kenny will get sacked until the end of the season at the earliest and i was happy with his post match interview. the players just didnt show up. skrtels half arsed tackle on davies for the first goal, johnson and enrique didnt look interested all game and were atrocious. maxi and adams abilities were shown up, again. i thought, like most, 1-1 when pepe played that through ball on a plate to maxi and he couldnt even get it under control when he had all the time in the world to bring it down and score or even lay it across the 6 yard box for bellamy for a tap in and adam is just all round awful. gerrard didnt suit the position he was playing but his demeanour epitomised our attitude, whether it was lack of fitness idk. downing again layed it on a plate for carroll within minutes of coming on but he couldnt even make contact with the ball properly and he went missing after that largely because we struggled to get out our own half so im not gonna jump on him but kuyt did zero again. the only players who had a go were bellamy and henderson and im gonna give him credit here, carroll was the next best for effort. the rest were just not at it. the problem now is if it happens again. if it does, then serious questions needs to be asked about kenny by fsg but i do hope it doesnt and kenny whips them into shape, i really do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Select_screen_name: Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 There was plenty of games under Rafa like the ones this season where we can't beat the ****. We need a different manager with new ideas. Saying that, I fully expect Rafa to be back end of season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony7 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Our style of play has to change it's been the same a few years. Reina needs to stop dropping the ball down then hoofing it up pitch. Great pass to Maxi yesterday but more often than not goes to keepers arms or headed away. Full backs need to overlap the players on the flanks this way we can open the pitch up we have players attacking the flanks while the midfield can make runs into the box for pull backs and crosses. Our play at the moment is too static not enough movement off the ball and movement is the most difficult thing to mark. Players dwell on the ball they need to move the ball around more quickly and with a purpose, for instance yesterday we passed the ball around made about 20 passes which ended up back to Reina. Centre backs need to bring the ball out of defence, Agger does this really well but we need to do it more often, If an opponent doesn't come to you keep bringing the ball forward this will allow the midfield to push on further forward to support the strikers. Strikers are coming wide too much they need to be central in the box otherwise who is going to be there when the ball is crossed in. One example yesterday Carroll done a great cross but I think only Maxi was there and it happens every game we need bodies in the box and it doesn't help when our strikers go out wide. We cross from too far out it's easy for teams to defend against when they have 4 or 5 defenders and we only have one striker in the box. I like to see us push more players in the box and drill a hard cross along the ground or pull it back mix it up a bit It's no coincidence we have one of the best defence records and one of the worst scoring records we defend with 9 men behind the ball leaving the strikers to feed off scraps. I know Blackburn and Swansea game the keepers pulled off last min saves but that's it we didn't do much until the last 10 mins where we threw everything at them why wait so late in the game to do that and making 2 great saves is not enough to say we deserved to win a game over 90 mins. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northeu Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 If we do get a new manager at the end of the season, whether that be Rafa or anyone else I think we are going to have to accept that we may very well end up in a new rebuilding cycle to a certain extent. The hope this year would be a couple of good signings would have got us back on track into the top 4 and we could forget about the last 2 seasons and kick on again. That hasn't happened and if anything we've regressed even more, just because Chelsea and Arsenal have to doesn't help us with Man city and spurs improving. Kenny AND Commoli have to take the blame for this season if one goes the other does to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Select_screen_name: Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I remember that Carroll having to lob his own cross in. Our biggest problem with our team is our midfield though. We've been defensively sound because we've had well drilled defensive midfielders sitting in front of the back four. Since they've been injured, our defence appeared to be there for the taking. And it's the same going forward. All season we've had a midfield which is static, reluctant to get in the box and support the strikers, with no real service to the strikers. The main culprits are the wingers, seeing as it's the primary job to support strikers and help join in attacks. I mean, for all the grief Carroll gets, he has the same amount of assists as Suarez and Suarez has only scored THREE more league goals. Suarez only has them because he has that world class technique and skill about him to beat players. Downing, Kuyt, Henderson, Adam all contribute nothing towards gaining a victory or supporting our strikers, and recently, help defending our defensive players. If there's no engine in the team, the team wont work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony7 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 £100 million and a few seasons of awful performances has seen us drift further from Spurs, Man Ciy maybe Arsenal and scrapping it out with teams for 6th and 7th place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emersonlfc Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 De Jong linked with a move away from City today. Type we need Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Don't remotely need De Jong, we have Lucas And Tony, stop ****ing saying 100 million. It's not remotely near accurate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emersonlfc Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Last time I checked, we dont have Lucas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony7 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Don't remotely need De Jong, we have Lucas And Tony, stop ****ing saying 100 million. It's not remotely near accurate. Carroll £35 million Henderson £17-20 million Downing £20 million Adam £8-9 million Coates £7 million Enrique £7 million Suarez £35 million How much do you make it? We prob sold players so our net spend is different but we have spent £100 million it's like you when you buy a house you don't tell people I got it for free because I sold my other house. We *****ed £100 million on average players who only had 1 great season in the premiership hardly experienced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperclips Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 We only turn up for the big games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwig Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Suarez wasn't anywhere near £35m. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I would accept a rebuilding period, in fact it's all I wanted from Dalglish. Towards the end of last season the way the side was playing far exceeded my expectations. But I would have been happy with some solid buys over the summer playing decent football and seeing where that got us at the end of the season. Instead we have declined in the quality of football from theend of last season significantly. We are keeping the ball on the deck but the movement is awful. We ended up 5th in Rafas first season. Even taking away the European cup you could see that there was a style he was trying to aim towards. Players like Alonso and Garcia were a breath of fresh air. Sadly Carroll, Downing and Adam aren't and never will be good enough and have awful attitudes on the pitch. I used to get frustrated with Garcia when thing he tried never came off but at leat he was trying. Downing does nothing. Adam just isn't good enough and seems to think he can stroll round the middle of the pitch then try a 40 yard ball every now and then and Carroll is awful. I would have loved for us to sign some players over the summer like Alonso and Garcia who were young and relatively unheard of and build towards something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperclips Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Wasn't Henderson- £12-16million? and Suarez £35mil? Sure it was £23mil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Select_screen_name: Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I'd take De Jong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
el sid Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Suarez - £35m Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northeu Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Luis Suarez £22,800,000 Andy Carroll £35,000,000 Jordan Henderson £16,000,000 * Fee undisclosed so the 16 million pounds figure is simply guesswork. Charlie Adam £8,500,000 * Reds paid £6.75m up front, with add ons possibly taking the fee as high as £8.5m. Alexander Doni Free Stewart Downing £18,500,000 Jose Enrique £6,000,000 Sebastian Coates £4,900,000 Craig Bellamy Free When it comes to our transfer figures I tend to go with lfchistory.nets ones no where is 100% but they seem to get closest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony7 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Ok Suarez was something like £23 million I made a mistake but the others were about right, either way it's at least £100 . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperclips Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Ok Suarez was something like £23 million I made a mistake but the others were about right, either way it's at least £100 . £100 thats pretty cheap Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Select_screen_name: Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 We've spent £40 million since last January. That's still crap considering where we are in the league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudester Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Who would you drop/change for city on wednesday? I think Downing will start, Spearing will start, my guess would be maxi, bellars and Adam on bench Unfortunately I can't see any way of playing without Kuyt coming back in. I would also start Kelly over Johnson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony7 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I think the team will be Reina, Johnson, Enrique, Agger, Skrtel Adam, Gerrard, Kuyt, Henderson, Downing and Carroll. That isn't what I would play but it's what I think Dalglish will play and won't surprise me if he puts Carrgaher in midfield at sometime. I would like Shelvy to start ahead of Adam and Downing and Maxi on the wings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperclips Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 What have the teams above us spent? I'd go for Reina Kelly/Johnson, Skrtel, Agger, Enrique Spearing Kuyt Gerrard Henderson Downing Carroll Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Select_screen_name: Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 A 50% Spearing has to start. Unless we get someone on loan before then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperclips Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I think we are one of the slowest teams in the league and also the fitness level of our players sometimes don't look great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony7 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 What have the teams above us spent?I'd go for Reina Kelly/Johnson, Skrtel, Agger, Enrique Spearing Kuyt Gerrard Henderson Downing Carroll What have these clubs spent Wigan Blackburn Nowrich Swansea Stoke we scored 2 goals in 6 games against them sides and not beaten any of them. If Liverpool were beating those sides and putting the lower half teams to the sword then you can say City have spent more than us etc. I think Liverpool have spent more than Spurs and certainly more than Arsenal while Spurs work within a wage budget. Liverpool have won 1 in their last 6 league games not good enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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